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[aspiegamer]

It's gonna take awhile but I should be able to find it

Since that never happened, good luck.

Yeah, my money is on TFYC. Which will be hilarious if this is what he's referring to.

TFYC took the money and ran, right? It turned out to be a scam?

And isn't that what the "harassment" by Zoe was? That she was alluding to the fact that it was a scam?

And we're done with this talking point, but thanks for playing.

Is that true though? This is the only forum I know of that's largely anti-GG (and that's only after banning A LOT of people)

GAF doesn't ban people for being apparent supporters of anything. They get banned for being insufferable jackasses with no attachment to reality.

 

[system11]

When feminism is destroyed or something.

You'd have thought that even the most stupid of troll would have become bored by now. Alas, they never do. Been on the receiving end myself - there's even still a hate page on webs.com, because they have a shitty abuse policy (that is, to totally ignore it).

 

[EdibleKnife]

Is that true though? This is the only forum I know of that's largely anti-GG (and that's only after banning A LOT of people) , and basically every major publisher and developer is silent on it.

I think the amount of people who don't care/do nothing to address it is larger than the amount that actively go after people but the two groups in combination make for an entirely toxic majority.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

I see the circle jerk is in full motion. You could at least wait for him to get his sources together before writing him off.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I see the circle jerk is in full motion. You could at least wait for him to get his sources together before writing him off.

He should have had his sources ready before making such an inflammatory statement. In fact he should have never said it without adding the source to begin with. This is the exact type of thing that propagates misinformation that GamerGate and other groups love to perpetuate and take advantage of.

 

[Oersted]

How is raphier a gentleman and FlyinJ a douchebag? Confusing tags. Anyway..

I read somewhere, some time ago, about this person I never met who did a very horrible thing in some forum post that I vaguely remember.

This is how you ruin a person's reputation. People knowingly and unknowingly spread all sorts of nasty rumors to all corners of the internet. Suddenly, thousands of people (or more) think you are a piece of shit and you deserve the harassment.

Yep. And we have this in every thread about her, about Sarkeesian... "I heard she did..." No, no she didn't. And even "if" (huge if) she did it, it doesn 't excuse what happened.

 

[Noaloha]

I see the circle jerk is in full motion. You could at least wait for him to get his sources together before writing him off.

Etc.

It's an aspect that's at the very heart of this whole issue.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

He should have had his sources ready before making such an inflammatory statement. In fact he should have never said it without a source to begin with.

How was what he said inflammatory? It seems like some of you just don't want there to be any opposing view points at all.

 

[dark10x]

Dear Rosa Parks: we are not ready for you to sit at the front of the bus, pls wait 5-10 years and maybe go sit in other places in the meantime, like maybe the lunch counter or the beach or other less racist places

This is hardly the same thing.

Some industries are behind but women have made enormous strides in the business world. Change IS happening all over and has been for years.

 

[Armaros]

I see the circle jerk is in full motion. You could at least wait for him to get his sources together before writing him off.

You mean like the dozens and dozens of previous GG threads that had similar hearsay that never had any actually evidence come out.

You mean this is exactly like how GG actually started? Rumors taken as fact?

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Man nobody deserves to be harassed like this even if you disagree with her views

 

[Deleted member 126221]

How was what he said inflammatory? It seems like some of you just don't want there to be any opposing view points at all.

Baseless accusations of harassment are not simply "opposing view points" and you know it.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

You mean like the dozens and dozens of previous GG threads that had similar hearsay that never had any actually evidence come out.

At the very least, he is making an attempt to source the information, and should be given the courtesy of not being immediately written off.

 

[EdibleKnife]

How was what he said inflammatory? It seems like some of you just don't want there to be any opposing view points at all.

Saying I heard "X did Y" is largely the reason we have the gamergate controversy in the first place. Rumor and misinformation posted without a reliable source. "Zoe harassed someone, I heard" without anything to back it up is ammo for any gater eager to scoop up something to justify their harassment.

 

[Matty77]

I am on mobile so I really cannot make a huge post quoting multiple things.

However,what has happened to Zoe is not just internet bullying or harassment. It's more akin to what happens to corporate whistleblowers, a targeted campaign to destroy a persons life so completely that they are ostracized both professionally and personally.

This is not something that goes away, or you write a book about years down the line. The damage is done, the choice at this point is to bend to the pressure and restart your life and live in fear, or expose the bastards at every step possible so you can retain your dignity and maybe prevent it for others in the future.

She's choosing the noble path and I support that, and we should hear about that, it should not be left alone until people forget, as humans we have made a social pact seen in most tragedys and atrocities to not forget so the past is not repeated, and on a lesser scale she is following that example.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

How was what he said inflammatory? It seems like some of you just don't want there to be any opposing view points at all.

Um. He made the claim that Zoe used the same bullying tactics that are being used against her. If you don't see how that's inflammatory then that's your prerogative.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

As far as the behavior of the companies Quinn outlines in this blog post, these are not valid claims of misconduct against professionals, this is illegal, baseless, and malicious harassment and these companies should be ashamed for considering this to be legitimate baggage.

Are there no unions and no professional ethics commissioners in the gaming industry? Screw journalism, where's the ethics in game development and publishing? Why is there no advocacy for professionals whose lives are being destroyed by the fucking peanut gallery?

For those who would claim that regulation and unionization destroy industries, why does an industry deserve to exist that doesn't value its workers? And before you start feeling loyal to some of these companies, take a short glance at the dozens of threads on this forum outlining the continued development of practices designed to take as much advantage of the consumer as possible. These companies don't love you, they just value your patronage.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

Baseless accusations of harassment are not simply "opposing view points" and you know it.

Would they be as baseless if the guy had a chance to source his information though?

 

[Par Score]

Intel deserves some probs. Otherwise... yeah. Its sad.

Yeah, Intel did good. It's a shame they're an exception, not the rule.

I remember reading about a couple of not anonymous developers getting "bullied" or "harassed" by Quinn and her friends at certain events.

This is exactly what the blog post is about. Gamergate has flung so much bullshit, in so many directions, over so many people, that some of it sticks.

And that shit has a pervasive, constant impact on their life, on their job prospects, on their relationships. It's fucked.

 

[dark10x]

Man nobody deserves to be harassed like this even if you disagree with her views

Yeah, this kind of bullying and harassment is simply awful AND it can happen to anyone. This kind of behavior in general needs to be scorned as it can really ruin lives. Cowards, all of them.

 

[kcp12304]

How was what he said inflammatory? It seems like some of you just don't want there to be any opposing view points at all.

When you accuse someone of doing something terrible as harassment, then you should have some sources ready. The guy seems to barely remember the event in question.

That's how nasty rumors spread. Accuse people of terrible things until it sticks. This is about a person's real life here not some anonymous person you can hurl accusations against and forget the next day. They have to live with the consequences.

When you get people spreading fake twitter posts, you need to realize some folks will to anything to ruin a person's reputation. People are skeptical because of this.

 

[Armaros]

Would they be as baseless if the guy had a chance to source his information though?

Because if you are going to post infammatory rumors you have your source ready beforehand.

And not work off of memory.

Every GG thread is filled with "I think I read somewhere, <insert rumor>" without evidence

It's fucking tiresome and its how GG got started.

 

[FlyinJ]

Would they be as baseless if the guy had a chance to source his information though?

Not at all. However, if I had a dollar for every time someone made an unsubstantiated "I heard..." during this whole fiasco, I'd be a rich man.

Whenever these "I heard..." guys are asked to substantiate their claims, they either immediately disappear or come back with claims that have been completely proven false months previously.

 

[Yaboosh]

Would they be as baseless if the guy had a chance to source his information though?

Posting something like that without a source is inflammatory.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Every GG thread is filled with "I think I read somewhere, <insert rumor>" without evidence

It's fuxking tiresome.

Tiresome and of a questionable nature as it only ever distracts from the topic at hand by shifting focus onto questioning someone's past.

 

[IcyStorm]

TFYC took the money and ran, right? It turned out to be a scam?

And isn't that what the "harassment" by Zoe was? That she was alluding to the fact that it was a scam?

Guuuuh...

No, TFYC is still working with Afterlife Empire's creator/developer, I believe. I think the concerns was TFYC's presentation of where money was going (because "charity") and the suspicious connection between TFYC and the developer that they helped connect with Afterlife Empire's creator. http://socialjusticeviv.tumblr.com/...fine-young-capitalists-arent-actually-helping (this is from Sept so it may be outdated)

As far as the interactions between Quinn and TFYC goes, here's a post from November from her Tumblr. http://ohdeargodbees.tumblr.com/post/103251119644/how-not-to-run-your-games-education-programs

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Yeah, this kind of bullying and harassment is simply awful AND it can happen to anyone. This kind of behavior in general needs to be scorned as it can really ruin lives. Cowards, all of them.

Yeah I mean I disagree a lot with Anita Sarkesian and Zoe but I would never harass them or call them by names, we are free to disagree with each other but it seems like some people like to treat them like "enemies of gaming" or some bullshit like that.

 

[Myggen]

Is that true though? This is the only forum I know of that's largely anti-GG (and that's only after banning A LOT of people) , and basically every major publisher and developer is silent on it.

Major devs and publishers are silent on it because they're businesses that have one goal: Profit. No incentive for them to go out against GG except to try to silent these shitheads, and that's not gonna do much to their bottom line. So they remain silent. That doesn't mean that they support GG.

And these guys will always shit up forums and comment sections if they have the chance. It's the same every time a publication writes something about feminism, the comments will be drowned in MRA bullshit. That doesn't mean that they're the majority, it means that they're very dedicated and very, very loud. If you look at GG's "boycotts", those haven't had much effect and the dedicated GG sites and GG friendly sites get fuck all traffic.

There's no doubt that GG is a tiny but extremely loud minority. That doesn't mean that they can't cause a lot of harm to both the industry and especially to individuals like Zoe.

In other, depressing news, people are now donating to a "legal fun" for Zoe's ex so he can sue her. Fuck everything.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

I think it's more inflammatory to write off the guy's claim at the drop of a hat than it is for him to make that claim, but that's whatever. I just think he should be given the chance to provide a source since he's apparently trying to find one.

 

[chrominance]

This is hardly the same thing.

Some industries are behind but women have made enormous strides in the business world. Change IS happening all over and has been for years.

And we got there how? By waiting 5-10 years for the rest of the world to catch up? No.

Fine. I take back the Rosa Parks joke, as it's obfuscating the real issue and probably isn't helping the dialogue. No one has died here like they have in the civil rights movement (at least that we know of, and certainly not in the same numbers). No one has had to march on the Capitol to make their case (though online harassment is now a concern of congresspeople).

But it's hard not to think that people told the civil rights movement that they, too, just needed to wait for the inevitable tides of change to give them what they wanted. People told the queer rights and same-sex marriage movements, just wait. Your children or your children's children will eventually come around. The people who fought for those rights didn't just stop because they were promised the possibility of eventual success. They fought to make sure it happened, to make it happen sooner. Those are laudable goals, and they weren't accomplished by shutting up and hoping things would improve.

To tell people in the gaming industry affected by harassment that their only option is to stay away until things get better, because otherwise things will get worse, may be a pragmatic piece of advice because there seem to be precious few options. People are definitely heeding that advice. But it's no way to grow an industry and it's no way to treat human beings.

 

[The Boat]

I don't understand how there are so many sorry excuses for human beings in a civilized part of the world in thus day and age. It's revolting to say the least.

 

[Mman235]

Is that true though? This is the only forum I know of that's largely anti-GG (and that's only after banning A LOT of people) , and basically every major publisher and developer is silent on it.

In truth most people don't care, and that works to GG's advantage as being incredibly noisy is a key tactic they use to drive the lies they spread; their garbage inevitably takes over if it's not banned or ghettoised because overruning places with it every time there's an opportunity to is one of their 1# strategies.

I think it's more inflammatory to write off the guy's claim at the drop of a hat than it is for him to make that claim, but that's whatever. I just think he should be given the chance to provide a source since he's apparently trying to find one.

If it's the TFYC stuff I could get that (not) "proof" in five minutes (not that I would, because it doesn't deserve spreading).

 

[Easy_D]

ourselves as in the community. not her.

I think we're dealing with some slight miscommunication here . You mean the gaming community as a whole?

 

[kcp12304]

I think it's more inflammatory to write off the guy's claim at the drop of a hat than it is for him to make that claim, but that's whatever. I just think he should be given the chance to provide a source since he's apparently trying to find one.

This whole thing started with a false allegation (she traded sex for reviews). People are skeptical because of this.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I think it's more inflammatory to write off the guy's claim at the drop of a hat than it is for him to make that claim, but that's whatever. I just think he should be given the chance to provide a source since he's apparently trying to find one.

Who isn't giving him a chance? If he returns with an authentic source then it will be reviewed. I just have my money on what he heard being related to TFYC as it's something GamerGate likes to propagate and push.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

I don't agree with the idea that developers and other gaming sites being silent on the issue is a problem. We all know what this leads to, and I'm sure some people would like to avoid that shit show like the plague.

 

[Armaros]

In truth most people don't care, and that works to GG's advantage as being incredibly noisy is a key tactic they use to drive the lies they spread; their garbage inevitably takes over if it's not banned or ghettoised because overruning places with it every time there's an opportunity to is one of their 1# strategies.



If it's the TFYC stuff I could get that (not) "proof" in five minutes.

It's not like the TFYC stuff is brand new, if there was legitimate proof it would be everywhere anything GG related and they wouldn't stop talking about it.

 

[Glass Shark]

I think it's more inflammatory to write off the guy's claim at the drop of a hat than it is for him to make that claim, but that's whatever. I just think he should be given the chance to provide a source since he's apparently trying to find one.

Your point is moot because he's not going to come back with anything. Nothing like what he described exists. GG has tried to spin Zoe's actions and opinions as "harassment" or "bullying" but if there were any evidence of her doing stuff on the level that GG themselves are doing, they'd be holding a crowdfunding campaign to plaster it on billboards.

 

[faridmon]

As much as you disagree with ones view/actions/whatever, that person does not deserve any harassment of any form. I disagree with her on many things, but my sympathies towards her!

 

[CrowDieSlow]

Who isn't giving him a chance? If he returns with an authentic source then it will be reviewed. I just have my money on what he heard being related to TFYC as it's something GamerGate likes to propagate and push.

The guy at the top of the page is a pretty good example.

 

[FlyinJ]

I don't agree with the idea that developers and other gaming sites being silent on the issue is a problem. We all know what this leads to, and I'm sure some people would like to avoid that shit show like the plague.

Which is exactly what the article in the OP is about. About how studios "avoiding that shit like the plague" is ruining people's careers because of GamerGate harassing them.

Did you read the article in the OP?

 

[Palette Swap]

I think it's more inflammatory to write off the guy's claim at the drop of a hat than it is for him to make that claim, but that's whatever. I just think he should be given the chance to provide a source since he's apparently trying to find one.

To be fair, and I don't think outright dismissal achieves much discoursewise, I can understand where people are coming from as they've seen this scenario unfold dozens of times with the same results over and over again.

The real issue is more that regardless of its sourcing, "she's no angel herself" is a thread derailing argument at its core.

 

[axisofweevils]

Yep. This really sucks that this is still going on. Even if Zoe did everything her detractors said (slept with a journalist for a positive review of a freeware text adventure), it still wouldn't justify the hate 9 months on. When it comes to ethics, there's far, far bigger issues.

Its depressing how something that started with such shaky foundations is still continuing. The positive review doesn't actually exist.

 

[Noaloha]

I think it's more inflammatory to write off the guy's claim at the drop of a hat than it is for him to make that claim, but that's whatever. I just think he should be given the chance to provide a source since he's apparently trying to find one.

The ire concerning that initial "I think I read somewhere that..." post was specifically because the post, accusatory in its suggestion, was made without a source alongside it. At the best of times that's poor form, but, given the topic, the absence of a source when throwing allegations Quinn's way is downright exasperating.

Any subsequently provided source doesn't remove the reason for that initial ire.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

Your point is moot because he's not going to come back with anything. Nothing like what he described exists. GG has tried to spin Zoe's actions and opinions as "harassment" or "bullying" but if there were any evidence of her doing stuff on the level that GG themselves are doing, they'd be holding a crowdfunding campaign to plaster it on billboards.

Do you know that though? How many people who make drive by comments come back to say "Okay, I'll try to find a source for my claim"?

 

[EdibleKnife]

I don't agree with the idea that developers and other gaming sites being silent on the issue is a problem.

I'd say the lack of dialogue with consumers is the source of some of gaming's major issues outside of even issues of representation. It leads to stoicism and stubbornness on the part of developers and publishers that allows them to continue practices that many gamers openly find atrocious.

 

[raphier]

I think we're dealing with some slight miscommunication here . You mean the gaming community as a whole?

Yes. I think it's due twitter culture but also because it was professionally mishandled. Half of the the content were created to instigate for clicks and this is the result. Now we have a bigger hate group than it should be.

 

[Easy_D]

Your point is moot because he's not going to come back with anything. Nothing like what he described exists. GG has tried to spin Zoe's actions and opinions as "harassment" or "bullying" but if there were any evidence of her doing stuff on the level that GG themselves are doing, they'd be holding a crowdfunding campaign to plaster it on billboards.

Thing is though, they spread misinformation for that exact reason.

Zoë herself even attests as such when she says

I still see a ton of misinformation being perpetuated by even well-meaning people

Just because someone brings up something that has been proved as false doesn't mean they're actively trying to perpetuate the lie. I know if I was in his shoes and actually got it wrong I'd be mighty embarassed and not want to set foot in the thread again.

 

[CrowDieSlow]

Which is exactly what the article in the OP is about. About how studios "avoiding that shit like the plague" is ruining people's careers because of GamerGate harassing them.

Did you read the article in the OP?

Would you want that baggage being thrown into your workplace? Would anyone?

 

[Glass Shark]

Do you know that though? How many people who make drive by comments come back to say "Okay, I'll try to find a source for my claim"?

I'll be honest: I keep track of GG actions way more than I should. It's a sick obsession. So if they actually had anything of importance on Zoe, I'd know about it.