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[Jackpot]

Developments in Brazil's corruption case are a little hard to follow with all the different scandals and parties. Congress voted to impeach President Dilma Rousseff over her role in (allegedly) concealing the true state of Brazil's disastrous economy prior to her re-election. There was the release of phone recordings that showed she was giving away political positions to the former President Lula (her mentor) for the immunity it'd bring him from the even bigger scandal of Operation Car Wash, the investigation into Petrobras' bribes to seemingly every major political figure in Brazil. There was muddying of the waters with accusations of coup attempts.

Anyway an interim government took power and leaked phone recordings seem to confirm everyone's worst fears in detail.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...seff-plot-secret-phone-transcript-impeachment

Brazil minister ousted after secret tape reveals plot to topple President Rousseff

Planning minister Romero Jucá was recorded saying ‘We have to change the government’ as the only means to stop a sweeping corruption investigation

The credibility of Brazil’s interim government was rocked on Monday when a senior minister was forced to step aside amid further revelations about the machiavellian plot to impeach president Dilma Rousseff.

Just 10 days after taking office, the planning minister, Romero Jucá, announced that he would “go on leave” following the release of a secretly taped telephone conversation in which he said Rousseff needed to be removed to quash a vast corruption investigation that implicated him and other members of the country’s political elite.

It is unlikely to be the last blow for the interim president, Michel Temer, whose centre-right cabinet includes seven ministers implicated by the Lava Jato (Car Wash) investigation into kickbacks and money laundering at the state-run oil company Petrobras.

After discussing how they are both targeted by Lava Jato prosecutors, Jucá says the way out is political: “We have to stop this shit,” he says of the investigation. “We have to change the government to be able to stop this bleeding.”

Machado concurs: “The easiest solution would be to put in Michel [Temer].”

The conversation took place just weeks before the lower house voted to impeach Rousseff, according to the Folha de São Paulo newspaper, which published the transcript.

At one point, Jucá appears to mock the Lava Jato investigators for their high-mindedness and determination to tackle all corrupt senators and congressmen. “[They want to] put an end to this political class so [a new one] can rise, to build a new breed [that will be] pure.”

He then says the “penny has dropped” on this threat not just for him, but for the leaders of the Social Democratic party, such as former presidential candidate Aécio Neves, Senator Aloysio Neves, José Serra and Tasso Jereissati – all of whom are now either in the cabinet of the interim government or key supporters of the coalition.

Later in the conversation, Juca says he talked about his plans to supreme court justices, who told him the “shit” (referring to the corruption investigation and its media coverage) would never stop as long as Rousseff remained in power. He also said he received “guarantees” from military commanders that they could prevent disturbances from radical leftwing groups such as the Landless Workers Movement.

He made some feeble excuses that he was actually talking about the economy and that it was all "out of context", so the newspaper released the full recordings and it showed he didn't mention the economy once.

 

[Platy]

Shocking =P

 

[Road of Ease]

And our right-wing press has the audacity to talk about pacifying the country while supporting this shit and putting all the blame on PT.

The disgust and the hypocrisy knows no bounds

 

[Laevateinn]

Everything's okay though because now they have free reign to screw the poor.

 

[hawk2025]

Best thread title choice!

 

[shaowebb]

Jesus man this is brewing into something bad. Here's hoping that things get cleaned up and no violence breaks out over this. Folks are pretty rightfully pissed from what I'm reading and its a scary atmosphere.

 

[sphagnum]

All I can do is laugh at the ridiculousness of this all.

Hope everything turns out well in the end, Brazil-GAF.

 

[Brazil]

Jesus man this is brewing into something bad. Here's hoping that things get cleaned up and no violence breaks out over this. Folks are pretty rightfully pissed from what I'm reading and its a scary atmosphere.

Sometimes a little violence goes a long way.

The Brazilian populace has become too damn complacent. It's depressing.

 

[GunBR]

The press is already talking like Jucá is the only corrupt, with Temer and all the others being 100% innocent

And most of the people who supported the impeachment are buying this and are still happy because they "destroyed Dilma, Lula and the PT"

In short, nothing's gonna happen

 

[Dennis]

That is some supervillain shit there.

 

[hawk2025]

The press is already talking like Jucá is the only corrupt, with Temer and all the others being 100% innocent

And most of the people who supported the impeachment are buying this and are still happy because they "destroyed Dilma, Lula and the PT"

In short, nothing's gonna happen

Link?

To any of this?

 

[AstroLad]

I loved the original thread on this. Felt like viral marketing and the whole thing was just so fishy since the start. Feel terrible for people down there.

 

[Road of Ease]

Jesus man this is brewing into something bad. Here's hoping that things get cleaned up and no violence breaks out over this. Folks are pretty rightfully pissed from what I'm reading and its a scary atmosphere.

I really can't see us being in peace before a new presidencial election happens - and not even then is it guaranteed.

Removing Dilma from power brought back grudges that have been brewing since the military coup of 1964 - hell, since before that! And the cost for doing it was a lot no matter which side of the brazilian political spectrum you're from. For the left-wing it cost the legitimacy of our institutions and of 54 million votes, and for the right-wing it demanded association with the cesspool of corruption they claim to fight against, represented by the political cancer that is PMDB (a huge party that stands for nothing but that any president need to align with to govern due to its sheer size).

 

[Tiops]

It's nice to see Lava Jato still working. Hope they catch more people with this soon.

Btw, people that supported the impeachment still support this investigation and want to see as many corrupt fuckers gone as possible. If anyone thought the impeachment would solve everything, it's either naivety or stupidity. The best part of the current situtation is that we haven't people defending the government from corruption now, it's everyone against them.

 

[Sadsic]

in Game of Thrones terms, is the High Sparrow running the government now?

 

[RustyNails]

 

[Ether_Snake]

You get the corrupt out, of course the others will come in. But then it's their turn

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Next Mass Effect to take place in Brazil confirmed

 

[Christopher]

You get the corrupt out, of course the others will come in. But then it's their turn

What do you mean by that? Not being a smart ass just wondering

 

[Jotaka]

Pizza! Pizza! Pizza! Pizza! Pizza!

 

[Tiops]

BTW, he's steping down from his position tomorrow. There where talks about only taking a leave at first, but apparenlty he's actually going to be completely removed from the government. But he'll still be a senator.

 

[Insane Metal]

Yeah, these scandals are only getting bigger and bigger and going deeper and deeper into the government.

It's just ridiculous. Not much to say unfortunately.

 

[felipeko]

This leak has actually very nice things:
1- It confirms that all politicians are scared of being next
2- It also confirms that the supreme court justice handling this case (politicians are judged only by supreme court), is not accessible for bribery (it would be a huge problem if this was the case).

It also put an stop to "it's all a conspiracy to kill PT", as the focus has moved for the ones in power.

It's bad on short term (our economy is taking the backseat again), but looking better long term (justice seems to be working against corruption for the first time ever), on my opinion.

 

[Sblargh]

What do you mean by that? Not being a smart ass just wondering

It's the current belief of a lot of brazillians that the political class is so incredibly corrupt that you can only effectively change the system by putting motherfuckers in jail one by one until darwinism rules that only the honest are left in there.

This is actually what passes as optimism here these days.

 

[Brazil]

2- It also confirms that the supreme court justice handling this case (politicians are judged only by supreme court), is not accessible for bribery (it would be a huge problem if this was the case).

That's quite the stretch. The STF has made a lot of disputable moves over the past few years, and there's no shortage of circumstantial evidence pointing to a few of them having been compromised before.

 

[Road of Ease]

It's the current belief of a lot of brazillians that the political class is so incredibly corrupt that you can only effectively change the system by putting motherfuckers in jail one by one until darwinism rules that only the honest are left in there.

This is actually what passes as optimism here these days.

Lol that's perfect

And weird since I haven't heard any pots banging or seen these "optimists" taking the streets for quite some time

 

[FreedomFighter]

Everyone with half a brain knew this just had to be a coup. It looked like one, it felt like one. Just reading up on Car Wash scandal, looking into Temer who is unelectable and banned from even running for office, knowing that PMDB couldn't win an election vs Worker's Party and damn sure wasn't going to win if Lula ran again... it just made sense. If you can't beat 'em at the ballot box, overthrow them. But now we have absolute and definitive proof of how deep the rabbit hole goes. Goddamn. This shit is crazy.
Greenwald chimed in the other day too.

 

[Maledict]

Of course Greenwald chimed in, he's been fucking crazy about this for ages.

And it's not a coup. It's unpleasant, probably the wrong decision, and for some people definitely motivated by their own corruption - but it's not a coup. Both houses voted for it in accordance with the law. If you don't like that, vote them out next election.

 

[Tiops]

Everyone with half a brain knew this just had to be a coup. It looked like one, it felt like one. Just reading up on Car Wash scandal, looking into Temer who is unelectable and banned from even running for office, knowing that PMDB couldn't win an election vs Worker's Party and damn sure wasn't going to win if Lula ran again... it just made sense. If you can't beat 'em at the ballot box, overthrow them. But now we have absolute and definitive proof of how deep the rabbit hole goes. Goddamn. This shit is crazy.
Greenwald chimed in the other day too.

Greenwald, such an impartial person!

It's not a coup.

 

[Tomasoares]

That leak actually just confirms what everyone knews: While the reason for the impeachment are solid and serious, most parliaments didn't vote for that reason, but to survive against Lava Jato's, since PT's goverment tried many ways to interfer with Lava Jato's operation and failed.

There's no coup on this, since nothing here is illegal, though the reasons behind surely aren't the most noble ones (but everyones knows that, like I said).

At least Temer proved to be superior to Dilma and removed Jucá from the goverment, while Dilma made the contrary move (bringing Lula to be minister!!) and also keeping Mercadante, Edinho Silva and Cardozo, among with others investigated people (some with are also in Temer government)

This leak has actually very nice things:
1- It confirms that all politicians are scared of being next
2- It also confirms that the supreme court justice handling this case (politicians are judged only by supreme court), is not accessible for bribery (it would be a huge problem if this was the case).

It also put an stop to "it's all a conspiracy to kill PT", as the focus has moved for the ones in power.

It's bad on short term (our economy is taking the backseat again), but looking better long term (justice seems to be working against corruption for the first time ever), on my opinion.

Not really true about STF. He talked about Teori that wasn't accessible, but for the others, Jucá said he could talk to them. IMO, STF is doing a quite bad work, they still hadn't gave Lula back to Moro's hand and are taking looooooooong time to do something about Cunha, Renan, Aécio and other investigated politicians.

 

[the_batman]

how is the public handling all of this? are they apathetic or are they ready to erupt?

 

[MisterFalcon]

Greenwald, such an impartial person!

It's not a coup.

Hey, is Greenwald using transcripts acquired by illegal mass surveillance here to help his case ?

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Americans politicians should take notice.

 

[Memory]

The messed up thing is that almost all governments are corrupt and they are taking notes from Brazil's fuck up so they don't get caught out in the future.

 

[Jackpot]

Everyone with half a brain knew this just had to be a coup. It looked like one, it felt like one. Just reading up on Car Wash scandal, looking into Temer who is unelectable and banned from even running for office, knowing that PMDB couldn't win an election vs Worker's Party and damn sure wasn't going to win if Lula ran again... it just made sense. If you can't beat 'em at the ballot box, overthrow them. But now we have absolute and definitive proof of how deep the rabbit hole goes. Goddamn. This shit is crazy.
Greenwald chimed in the other day too.

It's not a coup. Corrupt people threw a corrupt colleague to the dogs to try and "stem the flow". The procedure was perfectly valid, the motivation not so much.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Fucking despicable.

 

[Road of Ease]

At least Temer proved to be superior to Dilma and removed Jucá from the goverment, while Dilma made the contrary move (bringing Lula to be minister!!) and also keeping Mercadante, Edinho Silva and Cardozo, among with others investigated people (some with are also in Temer government)

You say Temer is superior to Dilma in the same paragraph where you admit that Temer brought politicians that are being investigated by Lava-Jato to his government...

Wow, people don't even hide their double standards anymore. I'm impressed

Also, Temer didn't remove anyone by himself, he articulated with Jucá the way he'd leave, asking to be exonerated was Jucá's idea and Temer even "thanked him for his services".

 

[Tiops]

You say Temer is superior to Dilma in the same paragraph where you admit that Temer brought politicians that are being investigated by Lava-Jato to his government...

Wow, people don't even hide their double standards anymore. I'm impressed

Also, Temer didn't remove anyone by himself, he articulated with Jucá the way he'd leave, asking to be exonerated was Jucá's idea and Temer even "thanked him for his services".

Well, Dilma added people investigated by Lava Jato in her government to give him immunity to the investigations (Lula), so, yes, it's better. And the politicians investigated that were brought to his government already had the immunity because of their previous positions and are still going to be investigated, so it's a different situation.

 

[Tomasoares]

You say Temer is superior to Dilma in the same paragraph where you admit that Temer brought politicians that are being investigated by Lava-Jato to his government...

Wow, people don't even hide their double standards anymore. I'm impressed

Also, Temer didn't remove anyone by himself, he articulated with Jucá the way he'd leave, asking to be exonerated was Jucá's idea and Temer even "thanked him for his services".

Superior != good.
He's better than her, but still a bad choice.

 

[Road of Ease]

Well, Dilma added people investigated by Lava Jato in her government to give him immunity to the investigations (Lula), so, yes, it's better. And the politicians investigated that were brought to his government already had the immunity because of their previous positions and are still going to be investigated, so it's a different situation.

Well, did people go to the streets to request for corrupt politicians with immunity or for no corrupt politicians at all?

It's a double standard. No one has the moral high ground on this

 

[Tiops]

Well, did people go to the streets to request for corrupt politicians with immunity or for no corrupt politicians at all?

It's a double standard. No one has the moral high ground on this

As Tomasoares said, we're not defending saying it's good or anything. It's at least refreshing to see the person out of his position, for whatever reason, when something like this happens. Everytime a politician in Brazil is involved in some scandal, he just waves away the problem and stays on his job. Like when Mercadante, Dilma's minister, also got caugh in an audio leak, but nothing happened to him.

So yes, it's better to see a politician being removed, instead of being added to the government during a scandal, as shitty as everything else is.

 

[Road of Ease]

As Tomasoares said, we're not defending saying it's good or anything. It's at least refreshing to see the person out of his position, for whatever reason, when something like this happens. Everytime a politician in Brazil is involved in some scandal, he just waves away the problem and stays on his job. Like when Mercadante, Dilma's minister, also got caugh in an audio leak, but nothing happened to him.

So yes, it's better to see a politician being removed, instead of being added to the government during a scandal, as shitty as everything else is.

I'd have more respect for the pro-impeachment ("anti-corruption" in their words) crowd if they showed the same moral indignation for this as they showed before. At least it would show consistency. I'm not seeing that from those people, not even in this thread.

I would love to be a part of a true anti-corruption movement in Brasil, but there isn't any. All I see is those who claim to fight for the "people" but think only of their political interests. You see that in how they keep quiet (or blame "communists", their favourite scapegoats) if something happens that makes them look bad

 

[Tiops]

I'd have more respect for the pro-impeachment ("anti-corruption" in their words) crowd if they showed the same moral indignation for this as they showed before. At least it would show consistency. I'm not seeing that from those people, not even in this thread.

I would love to be a part of a true anti-corruption movement in Brasil, but there isn't any. All I see is those who claim to fight for the "people" but think only of their political interests. You see that in how they keep quiet (or blame "communists", their favourite scapegoats) if something happens that makes them look bad

Well, at least where I work, where the great majority are pro-impeachment, we talked a lot about this issue, and people where pretty mad, asking for Jucá to be removed from his position. And the only time that a great indignation happened was when the Lula recordings where leaked, because they demonstrated the intention of stopping the investigations from the president herself. Mercadante's audios did not cause much more uproar than what happened yesterday.

And you can see the same behavior from the people against the impeachment. No one that was pro-Dilma showed any indignation when Delcidio got caught (even saying that he was never really a member of the Worker's Party, for whatever reason), when Mercadante got caught or with the audio leaks regarding Lula. Actually, you had people claiming the leaks to be illegal and defending "Lula and the democracy". Now everyone loves their audio leaks, huh?

I actually believe that we're in a better situation regarding people's movements and opinions. As I said before, now we don't have anyone defending the government. Temer took a pretty big hit yesterday, and rightfully so, and he'll have to solve it by himself, without anyone claiming injustice or protesting for him on the streets.

 

[Tomasoares]

I'd have more respect for the pro-impeachment ("anti-corruption" in their words) crowd if they showed the same moral indignation for this as they showed before. At least it would show consistency. I'm not seeing that from those people, not even in this thread.

I would love to be a part of a true anti-corruption movement in Brasil, but there isn't any. All I see is those who claim to fight for the "people" but think only of their political interests. You see that in how they keep quiet (or blame "communists", their favourite scapegoats) if something happens that makes them look bad

No one here's quiet nor approving Temer, at least on this thread. You want what, everyone screaming "COUP!!"?

 

[felipeko]

That's quite the stretch. The STF has made a lot of disputable moves over the past few years, and there's no shortage of circumstantial evidence pointing to a few of them having been compromised before.

Not really true about STF. He talked about Teori that wasn't accessible, but for the others, Jucá said he could talk to them. IMO, STF is doing a quite bad work, they still hadn't gave Lula back to Moro's hand and are taking looooooooong time to do something about Cunha, Renan, Aécio and other investigated politicians.

Teori is the supreme justice handling Lava-Jato on STF, that's why i said it is good news when he said "Teori is not accessible".

 

[Tomasoares]

Teori is the supreme justice handling Lava-Jato on STF, that's why i said it is good news when he said "Teori is not accessible".

Oh yeah, that's true indeed.

 

[Muskieratboi]

All this, and they want to hold an OLYMPICS there? Ugh.

 

[Massa]

I'd have more respect for the pro-impeachment ("anti-corruption" in their words) crowd if they showed the same moral indignation for this as they showed before. At least it would show consistency. I'm not seeing that from those people, not even in this thread.

I would love to be a part of a true anti-corruption movement in Brasil, but there isn't any. All I see is those who claim to fight for the "people" but think only of their political interests. You see that in how they keep quiet (or blame "communists", their favourite scapegoats) if something happens that makes them look bad

And what about DIlma supporters, are you seeing consistency in their actions? Like, they've always supported the use of leaks of audio recordings to the press, am I right? Or did they actually threaten to kill Lavajato if there were any more leaks? Good thing she's not in power anymore, Lavajato would've been killed yesterday.

And you can take a stand for what you believe in without taking part in a "movement". Of course political players are fighting for their interests, that doesn't absolve others of their mistakes.

All this, and they want to hold an OLYMPICS there? Ugh.

I don't think many people here care about the Olympics right now but since we paid for it might as well get it now.

 

[Trojita]

And how are we having The Olympics there in 2 months?

 

[Road of Ease]

No one here's quiet nor approving Temer, at least on this thread. You want what, everyone screaming "COUP!!"?

I would like to have seen the "green-and-yellow" folk being actively against any meddling with Lava-Jato and showing that they're not about assassinating a single political party.

What I did see was Temer being declared "superior" to Dilma while doing the same thing she's being condemned of doing in the same paragraph.

I also learned that while hiring politicians that are being investigated for corruption, the fact that they still have their political privileges can be an attenuating factor, apparently...