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[Luigiv]

That's because devs wont have access to larger discs (because the discs still need to be compatible with base). The device will still play UHD Blu-rays, it's just not information relevant to devs so they didn't bother include it in the documentation. Not that actually have any information but just think about for a sec and it makes sense. Sony isn't going to make a 4k focused device that only outputs 4k for Netflix and not their most obvious source of 4k content.

Same would be true for integrating the VR breakout box, though I'm less sure Sony would actually bother (PSVR is going to be sold with the box either way, so what's the point? Selling an SKU without the breakout box would be one too many and would create costumer confusion.)

 

[diaspora]

More like a 980 once you factor in focussed hardware optimisation and closer coding to the metal.

This meme never gets old for me.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Very interesting if it really is Polaris and not just an older GCN version with some Polaris features. If it's actual Polaris, this thing has a GPU nipping at the GTX 980's heels. I highly doubt that it is straight Polaris though if it's launching this year and Emily Rodgers is correct that NX isn't using Polaris features and 14nmFF.

This GPU is 14nmFF for sure though.

 

[Mabufu]

Well, a lot of you forget that for outputting 4K, what you need is a capable GPU, and the CPU have nothing to do in render resolution, outside gaining more time for the GPU to render.

So that's why the GPU got greatly improved, and not the CPU.

 

[Interfectum]

The codename for PS5 will be Trinity, won't it.

I don't think there will be a "PS5." They will just drop the numbered branding. They could even do it this time. PS4 and PS Pro or some shit.

 

[jett]

Those rumors were shot down yesterday. They were bullshit.

I knew that thread was complete garbage LOL. I have no idea why any mod would have given credence to it. It's really beyond me.

 

[cackhyena]

I don't buy that these new consoles will be out this year. Spring 2017 at the earliest.

 

[Caayn]

You know what I mean, you have been making some ridiculous parody posts in Uncharted 4 threads. I found them pretty annoying, especially when no one made such claims. Should I quote them?

Posts such poking fun at the industry by charging money for skins or posts as that I find it sad that people get upset by stores breaking streetdate? I don't understand how you feel that I attacked/generalize Sony fans with that. But be my guest.

As for the post in this thread, look up onQ123's posts about uprendering in the Kotaku PS4.5 thread

 

[Harlock]

Looks like not enough power increase to dev turn a 30fps game into 60fps without having to work a lot to optimize.

 

[Jim_Cacher]

Wait what!!! What happened with the thread ?

Nothing was shot down. Emily said 10k got the power level wrong for NX. IMO this is only a war between rumor messengers. Of course, Emily is viewed as more reliable with a better track record, and she still said NX has "good spec", only that the power level said by 10k is wrong.

 

[Bots are better than you]

To all the complainers. What is the downside if you could still play all released games on the PS4? Also, when this Neo happens I will have no problem enjoying my base PS4 in my room and the PS4k in the living room.

Maybe because consoles, so far, offered the same game performance for all consumers over a certain span of years.

The relationship between PS4 Vanilla and PS4K/Neo puts an end to that. This is dividing the existing and potential userbase. One part now get's a "baseline" performance, which might not be as good as it could be, if there wasn't a split hardware base, and the other part, willing to pay the full launch price of PS4 again for an upgrade, get better game performance, which might affect outcome in actual gaming, especially looking at multiplayer.

I could cope with this situation, if the pricing wouldn't scream "full console price for upgrades".

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

To all the complainers. What is the downside if you could still play all released games on the PS4? Also, when this Neo happens I will have no problem enjoying my base PS4 in my room and the PS4k in the living room.

Multiplayer. Even if both versions would run at 60fps, what is the base version only renders at 900p while the NEO runs at 1080p? The person with 1080p will have an advantage. Similarly in any multiplayer games where the framerate of the base is 30 or an unstable 60 while the NEO is a stable 60.

 

[Shredderi]

I'm fine with a more powerful PS4 if it actually is more powerful in a meaningful way. The OG PS4 wasn't powerful enough to my liking anyway. A lot of games already struggling with 30fps. I would have paid more for a more powerful console.

 

[SolidSnakex]

To all the complainers. What is the downside if you could still play all released games on the PS4? Also, when this Neo happens I will have no problem enjoying my base PS4 in my room and the PS4k in the living room.

Performance. It's only a matter of time before you start seeing the standard PS4 negatively impacted by this. You give developers more powerful hardware and that's going to be what they focus on and the stuff at the lower level is going to suffer.

Wait what!!! What happened with the thread ?

It was locked after various people noted that the rumors were false. This is what Emily Rogers said about it

Here is what multiple sources close to Nintendo are telling me about 10k’s hardware rumors: The gimmick is made up. GPU is wrong. Power level is wrong.” “The specs on NX are good, but a lot of the information being shared in this thread is incorrect.

I was told that NX has good specs, but the info in this thread on the GPU and power level is just not correct. Sorry to burst everyone’s hype.

http://wccftech.com/nintendo-nx-gpu-power-rumors-debunked-by-insider

 

[orava]

Consoles are dead. Long live consoles.

 

[Curufinwe]

With all the talk of how 'balanced' the ps4 hardware was when it was released

"Balanced" was actually the buzz word use to deflect from the weakness of the Xbone hardware.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects

 

[UnrealEck]

I'm really interested in hearing an honest answer from the crowd calling for a CPU upgrade...

What CPU? It's easy to name CPUs that are more powerful than Jaguar...but find me the tech that's going to fit within the existing architecture of the PS4? What APU does AMD have with a better CPU? What CPU would fit?

They don't exist...

I think AMD have new APUs and CPUs coming out for desktops soon. Polaris I think it's called or Zen. I forget which. But then I'm not sure if that would impact development of games between PS4 and the 'Neo' system, which Sony likely wouldn't want to happen.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Nothing was shot down. Emily said 10k got the power level wrong for NX. IMO this is only a war between rumor messengers. Of course, Emily is viewed as more reliable with a better track record, and she still said NX has "good spec", only that the power level said by 10k is wrong.

It actually was a lot worse than that for 10k.

Another user issued a pretty large dissection of how he handles sourcing... Doesnt mean his info was universally wrong (i believe a lot of it to still be mostly accurate) but it did call into question his credibility and ablility to vet what he posts

 

[Javin98]

Posts such poking fun at the industry by charging money for skins or posts as that I find it sad that people get upset by stores breaking streetdate? I don't understand how you feel that I attacked/generalize Sony fans with that. But be my guest.

As for the post in this thread, look up onQ123's posts in the PS4.5 thread about uprendering

It's not those posts, jokes about ND's DLCs are totally fine. In fact, I think ND does a bad job with DLCs myself. What I found annoying was your "Naughty Gods" parody posts.

 

[manny10032]

Gaf, why am I so hyped for this??

 

[Lister]

I'm really interested in hearing an honest answer from the crowd calling for a CPU upgrade...

What CPU? It's easy to name CPUs that are more powerful than Jaguar...but find me the tech that's going to fit within the existing architecture of the PS4? What APU does AMD have with a better CPU? What CPU would fit?

They don't exist...

True, but I guess they might have hoped for something to have been designed and manufactured by release for the PS4.

Somethign that would have been likely wiht a PS5 in 2-3 years, but obviously not here.

 

[shark sandwich]

I'm happy with this. Spec-wise PS4 was a disappointment aside from the RAM, especially considering the 7 year gap from PS3->PS4. This should put it more in line with a "proper" generational leap.

More importantly, this means I might actually get to experience Final Fantasy XV with decent image quality/frame rate.

 

[HowardRoark]

Man, why did they stick with the same shitty CPU? If it's x86 why does it matter other than mass production/economy of scale?

 

[E-Cat]

nm

 

[UnrealEck]

Well, a lot of you forget that for outputting 4K, what you need is a capable GPU, and the CPU have nothing to do in render resolution, outside gaining more time for the GPU to render.

So that's why the GPU got greatly improved, and not the CPU.

I doubt the games will be actually 4K. I'd bet the 4K will be upscaling. Video will be the only actual 4K.

 

[Lister]

Actually better, because they're AMD flops.

You mispelled worse.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

Who's to say that Sony in 3-4 won't pull a N64 and require games to be run on a Neo?

Runs on both for the first years, only runs on Neo later in the cycle...

 

[Snail]

Very interesting if it really is Polaris and not just an older GCN version with some Polaris features. If it's actual Polaris, this thing has a GPU nipping at the GTX 980's heels. I highly doubt that it is straight Polaris though if it's launching this year and Emily Rodgers is correct that NX isn't using Polaris features and 14nmFF.

This GPU is 14nmFF for sure though.

It's going to be neither.

Polaris is using a different coding scheme, many insturctions changed, added or missing. So it could'nt run any vanilla PS4 games. I think this is just doubling the standard PS4 GPU.

Also 14nmFF is going to be very expensive this year. I think they are going to be staying on 22nm unless the PS4K releases sometimes next year.

 

[E-Cat]

You mispelled worse.

Oops, sorry. My bad.

Anyway, seems to come out pretty even if you multiply 3494 FLOPS by ~1.2.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Man, why did they stick with the same shitty CPU? If it's x86 why does it matter other than mass production/economy of scale?

APU

Who's to say that Sony in 3-4 won't pull a N64 and require games to be run on a Neo?

Runs on both for the first years, only runs on Neo later in the cycle...

Who's to say they won't mandate all games to run on the PSVR only... or better yet, who's to say MSFT won't force all games to 'run on the cloud'...

 

[ukas]

No 4K UHD Blu-ray? I have a new 4K OLED arriving on Tuesday. Boooo, hisssss!

 

[FLAguy954]

lol

Lmao indeed.

 

[spons]

It's going to be neither.

Polaris is using a different coding scheme, many insturctions changed, added or missing. So it could'nt run any vanilla PS4 games. I think this is just doubling the standard PS4 GPU.

Also 14nmFF is going to be very expensive this year. I think they are going to be staying on 22nm unless the PS4K releases sometimes next year.

So Polaris can't run existing PC games either?

 

[Jim_Cacher]

It actually was a lot worse than that for 10k.

Another user issued a pretty large dissection of how he handles sourcing... Doesnt mean his info was universally wrong (i believe a lot of it to still be mostly accurate) but it did call into question his credibility and ablility to vet what he posts

Oh really? Do those sourcing problems happen with the second batch of info? I didn't know why, but I felt that 10k was not well-prepared for the second batch, compared with the first batch of info he shared.

Still, I guess NX could have strong power in terms of spec, especially after looking at that SCD patent.

 

[Zee-Row]

It would be so funny if the official name for this console was PS4 remastered.

 

[qa_engineer]

Man, why did they stick with the same shitty CPU? If it's x86 why does it matter other than mass production/economy of scale?

Because their engineers who have doctorates in computer engineering, electrical engineering, etc. figured an 8core jaguar cpu running at higher frequencies was enough to keep the GPU consistently fed with work, all while staying within the TDP, price, and heat ranges. Pretty sure these guys know what they're doing.. you know since this is a multi billion dollar generating consumer electronic product

 

[schwabdizzle]

As a consumer and someone who just bought a second PS4 (the ex took my old one), I hope Sony offers some sort of a deal where original PS4 owners can upgrade a a decent price internally through Sony.

 

[gofreak]

Performance. It's only a matter of time before you start seeing the standard PS4 negatively impacted by this. You give developers more powerful hardware and that's going to be what they focus on and the stuff at the lower level is going to suffer.

That's not necessarily true... usually the machine with the biggest install base or the machine that represents the biggest obstacle to acceptable performance gets most optimisation effort. PS2 was still the centre of gravity for most dev's attention after Xbox arrived, my impression is PS3 (because it was more difficult rather than more powerful) in many cases got a more dev time and special optimisations in the last gen... Sometimes having a more powerful counterpart can actually induce more optimisation effort on a lower powered platform than it might otherwise get. Do you think many devs would struggle so hard getting Xbox One games up to 'parity' - or as close as possible as is usually the case - if PS4 didn't exist?

I don't think 'Neo' is going to suck focus away from the base unit as long as the latter is so much more popular. While some devs might go an extra mile, the former will probably typically enjoy fairly low hanging fruit in terms of improvements - simple enhancements (res/iq/higher-quality effects if already available from PC etc) that can be achieved with minimal code changes. I don't think it'll be a huge consideration at all, indeed I could envisage some devs just viewing it as a bit of a 'extra work' PITA, even if it only requires minor extra effort.

 

[HowardRoark]

APU

So all of the AMD APUs have a shitty underpowered CPU component? I'm not being facetious, I don't know much about their hardware.

 

[crazygambit]

Not gonna happen.

Do you think they'll keep making vanilla PS4s?

I doubt that very much.

Historically the whole point of a mid gen refresh has been to lower costs. They didn't keep making the OG PS3 after the slim came out, same on the PS2 and PS1 generations, why would it change now?

Granted this time instead of going only for cost reductions they used some of the budget afforded by the shrinking process to make a few improvements in power, which as I've said from day 1, it's pretty nice. Still though, there'd be no point in continuing to make the OG PS4, so while it won't be removed from shelves I'm certain it will be faded out.

As for the HDD and UHD Bluray drive, even if they were to change those and wouldn't show up on a devkit. There would be no point in this if it didn't support UHD Blurays.

 

[Always-honest]

Im kind of glad i didnt buy consoles this gen, what a clusterfuck. And peoples are accepting this? Wow.

We went from full games -> DLCs -> p2w -> seasons pass

And now from full gen console -> upgrades?

You guys are eating whatever shitstew the industry is stirring right? I feel like all those Jimquisition speeches flew above your heads.

More reason for you and your figure of authority to not buy anything and to not play games.
Be happy. It's everything you ever wanted.

 

[tapedeck]

How many GameCubes now?

 

[Mabufu]

I doubt the games will be actually 4K. I'd bet the 4K will be upscaling. Video will be the only actual 4K.

Not a lot, but I think we may get some.

 

[Kill3r7]

At this point just announce a release date so I can go ahead and trade in my PS4.

 

[Renekton]

With all the talk of how 'balanced' the ps4 hardware was when it was released this is a weird change. More than double the gpu without doubling the (already weakest link) cpu.

Even if you don't care about framerates, graphically a lot of ps4 games suffer from very poor draw and shadow distances and those are not the gpu's fault. And a better gpu is not going to fix that. A better cpu would have fixed that and improved graphics hugely by making them more consistent rather than pretty up close and garbage at a distance (no more annoying distracting pop in or potato cereal box builtings at a distance)

I am guessing they cannot significantly upgrade the CPU without changing architectures (e.g. to Excavator) which would ruin cross-compatibility.

Wonder how feasible is it to add an extra Jaguar module - 4 CPU cores.

 

[Lister]

Because their engineers who have doctorates in computer engineering, electrical engineering, etc. figured an 8core jaguar cpu running at higher frequencies was enough to keep the GPU consistently fed with work, all while staying within the TDP, price, and heat ranges.

I think the bolded and underlined was their first and only priority here. Well, time was probably another big one.

 

[tuxfool]

Regarding Polaris, there are two things here.

1. If it is Polaris, they're doubling a CU count AND increasing the core frequencey, yet only gaining 2.3x improvements, that is really not impressive at all.

2. It could be GCN 1.2 which would make the 2.3x improvement track much better with the quoted specs.

 

[Snail]

So Polaris can't run existing PC games either?

That's different because of the very low level PS4 API.

They would need to change to API for Polaris, so that wouldn't work.

 

[shark sandwich]

Man, why did they stick with the same shitty CPU? If it's x86 why does it matter other than mass production/economy of scale?

Making it identical architecture-wise would make it far, far easier to make it backwards compatible with regular PS4 games (just downclock to 1.6 GHz). I don't think you could just run an old PS4 game, designed for the Jaguar architecture, on a completely different architecture, even if they are technically binary compatible. There would be all sorts of weird unexpected effects.

 

[w0s]

How freaking under powered were these consoles that an upgrade 3 years later still puts it almost at a 970? I honestly figured we would at least get a 980.