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I think Microsoft might surprise a bunch of people

DEADEVIL

Member
I wish I could have loved that game. I thought it was going to be the game that hooked me on JRPG's. I had it the midnight it released.

Absolutely loved it. Mainly because It really gave me the Final Fantasy nostalgia that I had missed from the PS2 days. But wow I bought it day one, but you must have been working or had connections at retail to get it at midnight.

I still say it's the only RPG that let you go through an entire funeral procession. That game was special. Plus it had my top 5 CG openings ever.

Never played Blue Dragon either, but I loved the fighting system in Star Ocean which people forget ended up being a timed exclusive. Still loved it when it was released. Even though the voiceovers were cheesy.
 

Izick

Member
Absolutely loved it. Mainly because It really gave me the Final Fantasy nostalgia that I had missed from the PS2 days. But wow I bought it day one, but you must have been working or had connections at retail to get it at midnight.

Connections make it sound way more important it than what it actually was, but yeah I was lucky enough to get it early.
 

jmdajr

Member
If Xbox is weaker hardware wise, it might still have upper hand with BC, specifically XBLA at least.

I don't know, the thought of none of my psn games working on ps4 is really a turn off.
Perhaps one day I can play them for free with cloud gaming,...but when?
 

szaromir

Banned
Lol. A me-too game made by the creator of Final Fantasy. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Still one of my all-time favorite RPGs this entire gen from any system.
Well it might be a good game (and it is, though not great), but Peter flat-out said at one point "Lost Odyssey is our Final Fantasy and Blue Dragon is our Dragon Quest".

No, that's the wrong idea. When you build up a diverse library of exclusives, you give people incentive to buy your console in the future.
But me-too games don't lead you anywhere, even if they're good. It took a while for Forza to establish itself and still it never approached Gran Turismo's popularity. Resistance and Killzone have been relative failures in chasing the bigger FPS brands etc. It is an outlier, but compare them to something like Gears of War which didn't try to mimmick anything (though certainly had many inspirations).
 

Izick

Member
If Xbox is weaker hardware wise, it might still have upper hand with BC, specifically XBLA at least.

I don't know, the thought of none of my psn games working on ps4 is really a turn off.
Perhaps one day I can play them for free with cloud gaming,...but when?

The Gaikai idea sounds amazing to me, but like you kind of alluded to, at this point from what they've revealed it only sounds like an idea about a future-plan.

But me-too games don't lead you anywhere, even if they're good. It took a while for Forza to establish itself and still it never approached Gran Turismo's popularity. Resistance and Killzone have been relative failures in chasing the bigger FPS brands etc. It is an outlier, but compare them to something like Gears of War which didn't try to mimmick anything (though certainly had many inspirations).

You're missing the big picture. The reason the PS3 caught up so fast at the end of this cycle is because of games like Resistance and Killzone. When you have all these titles, you feel like investing in a console late in this cycle is worth it. It's a long-term strategy.
 

Magpul

Banned
Microsoft has always been the brand that appeals to the yolo swag types, saying their gaming lineup is mediocre is an understatement.
 

jmdajr

Member
The Gaikai idea sounds amazing to me, but like you kind of alluded to, at this point from what they've revealed it only sounds like an idea about a future-plan.

.

I just don't know how hard it is to go from the IBM cpu to the AMD.
At least the gpu architecture will be similar.

ps4 absolutely nothing will be the same.
 

Izick

Member
I just don't know how hard it is to go from the IBM cpu to the AMD.
At least the gpu architecture will be similar.

ps4 absolutely nothing will be the same.

But isn't the Gaikai idea that it doesn't matter what the hardware is since it's just streaming tech?
 

szaromir

Banned
You're missing the big picture. The reason the PS3 caught up so fast at the end of this cycle is because of games like Resistance and Killzone. When you have all these titles, you feel like investing in a console late in this cycle is worth it. It's a long-term strategy.
I don't agree with you. 360's userbase in the US was 4M when PS3 launched, now the difference is 15M and growing every day, the similar in the UK. In most other markets PS3 was slowly outselling 360 since day one, I think it shows well enough that those older games don't make a difference today, 360 never took off in countries where Xbox Live features are severely stripped and Microsoft's advertising didn't really click with the audience.
Not every new idea takes off obviously mind you.
 

DEADEVIL

Member
But me-too games don't lead you anywhere, even if they're good. It took a while for Forza to establish itself and still it never approached Gran Turismo's popularity. Resistance and Killzone have been relative failures in chasing the bigger FPS brands etc. It is an outlier, but compare them to something like Gears of War which didn't try to mimmick anything (though certainly had many inspirations).

Forza 3 sold a little more than Gran Turismo 5 in the US. That's a huge accomplishment for MS, to have their franchise gain as much popularity as the big dog in the home country.

I get what your saying about oringinality in games, but Lost Odyssey even with it's old school feel was no me-too game no matter how you claim it to be. I played it to it's completion. The game wasnt a huge success but when you look at the user base and consider that we have 70 million in install bases and a game like Kingdoms of Amular still didn't outsell it on the 360 or the PS3.
 

jmdajr

Member
But isn't the Gaikai idea that it doesn't matter what the hardware is since it's just streaming tech?

I believe so. I just can't imagine it will work my my current internet connection. Not well anyway.

If Netflix can poop out and it's not even interactive, how will games work?
 

DEADEVIL

Member
Connections make it sound way more important it than what it actually was, but yeah I was lucky enough to get it early.

No connections make it more important to me and less important to you. We both have our own opinions of the game. You wanted to like it and I actually loved it. Neither of us are wrong.
 

Izick

Member
I believe so. I just can't imagine it will work my my current internet connection. Not well anyway.

If Netflix can poop out and it's not even interactive, how will games work?

I'm sorry HHH, I can not answer that question.

No connections make it more important to me and less important to you. We both have our own opinions of the game. You wanted to like it and I actually loved it. Neither of us are wrong.

Oh no of course not, I was just saying that it was just a little thing since I had a friend who worked in retail.
 

jmdajr

Member
I'm sorry HHH, I can not answer that question.



Oh no of course not, I was just saying that it was just a little thing since I had a friend who worked in retail.

I actually streamed PsONE games from the PS3 over to my PSP over the internet.
Looked like poop!
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Forza 3 sold a little more than Gran Turismo 5 in the US. That's a huge accomplishment for MS, to have their franchise gain as much popularity as the big dog in the home country.
I'm pretty sure that's not really the case. Unless we're going by chartz numbers.
 

szaromir

Banned
Forza 3 sold a little more than Gran Turismo 5 in the US. That's a huge accomplishment for MS, to have their franchise gain as much popularity as the big dog in the home country.
Anyway I'm not arguing those games are doomed to fail, only that focusing on new ideas is a better use of available resources and is more likely to expand the market. Instead of accepting pitches like "Deus Ex but better" (or whatever), I would look for new concepts if I was Phil Spencer or Yoshida. I mean, Gears of War was a somewhat new concept when MS were signing up the publishing deal and it created the cover shooter market by itself.
 

Izick

Member
I just can't wait to have a faster OS/UI. I like the Xbox's Dash but I'm ready for something that's a lot faster. Like there's a free movie (I think it's called Stolen) advertised on the Dash, and I click it and then it takes like half-a minute to load.
 
It's not more difficult to put out something more ambitious than the Killzone demo which looked like Call of Duty SciFi edition.

Haha, I know. I was mostly trying to be conciliatory with including the "even more" in the "even more ambitious," though I do have a thing for shiny glass skyscrapers.

Microsoft is spending too much money to get a run-of-the-mill highly linear and highly scripted game as their premier 1st-party launch title.

...Then again, considering how much they spent on Halo 4... perhaps, I'm being overly optimistic...
 

elohel

Member
A lot of words for being speculative.

MSFT has their own vision and that's ok. I think they have fallen as a games leader and are more in it for other reasons than Sony or even Nintendo. They haven't been good for me in at least 3-4 years. That's not to say they can't do some things to help their cause but we just have to wait and see.

what I was going to say
 

abadguy

Banned
Haha, I know. I was mostly trying to be conciliatory with including the "even more" in the "even more ambitious," though I do have a thing for shiny glass skyscrapers.

Microsoft is spending too much money to get a run-of-the-mill highly linear and highly scripted game as their premier 1st-party launch title.

...Then again, considering how much they spent on Halo 4... perhaps, I'm being overly optimistic...

Most of what they spent concerning Halo 4 was putting together a new dev team from scratch which i would imagine isn't cheap.
 

Cagey

Banned
It doesnt matter what your opinion of 'must have' games are. But, it's clear what the top core franchise that the 360 core games play and support are the games MS released.

As long as MS supports it's core fanbase then that's all that matters.

Funny, because to me and my purchasing decisions, my opinion is all that matters. Thus why I asked the question I did.
 

Izick

Member
For me, I think to satisfy people like us who adopt these consoles early, they need to have a few new big IP's, but they also have a lot of IP's like Forza, Gears, Halo, Fable, and a few others that have a ton of potential for new games in the next-generation.

I say they take a 2/3rd new, 1/3rd classic approach to their exclusives early on.
 

DEADEVIL

Member
Funny, because to me and my purchasing decisions, my opinion is all that matters. Thus why I asked the question I did.

And your opinion should matter and you deciscions shoould matter to you. But I was just pointing out that no matter how varied our opinions are as long as MS is still delivering games for the core 360 fan base they will be as successful as they ever have.
 

DEADEVIL

Member
I'm just looking at it from the long-standing view of the platform. What I mean is that when I picked up a PS3 last Summer, I didn't do it to replace my 360, but I did for the sole reason of playing the exclusives (and some Blu-Ray movie action) because of how many they had, and how varied they are.

If I had a PS3 at the beginning, would I have picked up a 360 instead? I don't know, I can't say but I'm guessing I probably wouldn't have. Little things like Alan Wake are like the PS3's Demon's Souls or Valkyria Chronicles. They're not heavy-hitters like Uncharted or Halo, but they all add up in the long run for people coming into the generation late.

So MS is supposed to cater to people who come late to the system? No the point is ensuring the gsme is on the console. But if you came to the console late, then there is a ridiculous amount of exclusives that arent on any console or PC.
 

Izick

Member
So MS is supposed to cater to people who come late to the system? No the point is ensuring the gsme is on the console. But if you came to the console late, then there is a ridiculous amount of exclusives that arent on any console or PC.

They cater to any consumer with 300$ (or however much the console costs at the moment) in their pocket and a pulse. I'm saying that when you start to accrue all these exclusives on your console, people who want the most bang for their buck will likely choose your console over the other. It's a value deal, really that people like.

If I buy an Xbox 360 tomorrow, I know that I can finally play Forza, Gears, Halo, Mark of the Ninja, or whatever for the first time. It gives more value to the product.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Forza 3 sold a little more than Gran Turismo 5 in the US. That's a huge accomplishment for MS, to have their franchise gain as much popularity as the big dog in the home country.

I get what your saying about oringinality in games, but Lost Odyssey even with it's old school feel was no me-too game no matter how you claim it to be. I played it to it's completion. The game wasnt a huge success but when you look at the user base and consider that we have 70 million in install bases and a game like Kingdoms of Amular still didn't outsell it on the 360 or the PS3.

Can you link to announced sales figures showing Forza 3 sold more than 2.4 million copies in the US?
 

Izick

Member
I honestly don't think there is any momentum going from console to console. I mean look at the PS2 to PS3, or the slow motion train-wreck that is the Wii to Wii U.

I think consumers see new consoles as a completely new start, and they're right because a lot of things can be completely changed and stereotypes broken.
 

Dai101

Banned
Microsoft has always been the brand that appeals to the yolo swag types, saying their gaming lineup is mediocre is an understatement.

CYW2


i love new console announcement season.
 

shinnn

Member
Because i now know that by 99% Alan Wake 2 will be on PC of course, so is no longer a reason to buy xbox 720 having that game in mind

Same goes for Fable too


this is you 2 pages ago

Deep Down seemed like an action/RPG and FF15 Agnes was also confirmed for PS4

And Witcher 3, Diablo 3 later as well

So PS4 has many RPGs i already want to buy it for

PS3/PC = good
X360/PC = bad

so coherent. lol
 
So, for the past three years, Microsoft has been kinda a disappointment (well, maybe not last E3, where they debuted three new IPs, showed new technology, announced sequels to their biggest franchises--including Halo 4 without Kinect--added new XBL functionality, etc). The focus has been on the games with the biggest sales and Kinect.

Many of us have taken this to mean that Microsoft is more interested in focusing on the big, dumb, dudebro crowd that'll buy anything, as well as the casual crowd, who made Kinect the best-selling electronic device of all time in the Fall of 2010.

Last year, I had an opportunity to visit a game store that sold a lot of previous-gen (and beyond) games. I made myself a shopping list of what games to get, and found a lot of original Xbox-exclusive titles that were really unique and interesting. "Man," I found myself thinking, "I wish Microsoft was still like this."

Shortly after, I found myself playing Viva Pinata. I'm not actually sure why I picked it up, only that I did and enjoyed it so much that I almost immediately went out and purchased Trouble in Paradise. I started looking for more early 360-exclusive games, and found some really cool, really innovative stuff, like Shadowrun and Crackdown.

"So," I found myself thinking, "what changed in 2010?"

The most tangible answer is Kinect. It released in 2010, after all, but then, I realized something else: most games take two or three years to develop.

What happened before then? Ensemble, FASA, Aces, and other studios got shut down. Rare stopped making games and went into making avatars and Kinect games. These were long-time studios that had made Microsoft a great deal of money. Aces, in particular, had been developing Microsoft Flight Simulator for... what, decades?

What caused that to happen?

The 2008 financial crisis.

This is where I start speculating, but I think this is all pretty close to what actually happened:

The Xbox lost a lot of money, but got its brand into the public mindshare, which was Microsoft's goal. In 2008, when the economy collapsed, Microsoft was determined not to lose that kind of money again, so they started shuttering the AAA studios that weren't doing extremely well (basically, everyone who was selling fewer games than Lionhead). Assuming a three year development cycle, games that might have been announced in 2010 were dropped. In addition, the PC studios got shut down, because the guys who fought for PC gaming at Microsoft (Allen, Gates), weren't around as much, and the guys running the Entertainment division were mostly Xbox guys. My understanding is that the profit margins weren't too good at Ensemble, despite their games' great sales.

On top of this, Microsoft had invested a lot of money into the Kinect, which they thought might do really well (it did, at first) based on the Wii's success. They shifted over to that as a priority, not just because of the Wii's track record, but also because it was costing them a lot of money. They believed it was their best shot at success, and given their limited funding, they decided to put that as a priority.

Remember, development takes time. Decisions made one year won't necessarily become public knowledge for two or three.

In 2010, when the Kinect launched (and initially did really well--apparently the attach rate is kind of bad), Microsoft began working on their next generation console. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they started before then, concurrently with 343's formation in ~2009, but I'm pretty sure the major work started in 2010.

Microsoft's approach for the past two generations has been to shotgun launch a massive variety of games within the first few years, then sort of pull back on the experiments that don't work and emphasize those that do. We've seen this greatly exaggerated this generation because of the financial crisis, as I've surmised above.

I think what we've seen is Microsoft playing it safe as a result of the 2008 financial crisis.

I remember hearing, about a year ago, that Microsoft had earmarked around three hundred million dollars for core AAA game development. We know for a fact that Black Tusk Studios is working on an AAA shooter and that Kinect has been pulled from the project. We know that Rare is hiring people with AAA shooter/action-adventure experience. We've heard that Microsoft is working on at least four new IPs. I think when I counted last, Microsoft had between 8 and 12 studios who had never made a game before. LinkedIn profiles and rumors I've seen the past year or two seem to indicate that a lot of experienced people from AAA games are being hired by Microsoft for more than just Halo, Forza, and Fable (Gears of War is an Epic IP, and, as such, it's up to them--I'm guessing that Black Tusk's new game is going to replace Gears in Microsoft's lineup).

While the rumors suggest that you will need to have your Kinect plugged into your Xbox, many people seem, rather stupidly, to assume that this means all games must have Kinect functionality. We know that Halo 4 went against Kinect functionality. We know that the Forza series has Kinect functionality, but it doesn't replace anything core.

I would like to suggest that we're going to see a Microsoft we haven't seen for a long time when the next E3 comes. I think we'll see a lot more core games than we're used to. Yes, Kinect is going to be there, and it's going to be a big part of their presentation, and Microsoft, without a doubt, is going to push this far more as an all-purpose media box than the PS4 (which barely had any discussion in last night's conference), but...

I am not arrogant enough to suggest that people will be eating crow, but I do think that on the software front, Microsoft will end up surprising people quite a bit.
No, what happened was a lot of the top management of the Xbox division like Peter Moore and J Allard left or were moved around the organisation around 2008. For what reason I don't know why, but these guys had been pushing new games ever since 2001. There was never a drought of new ideas beforehand. My opinion is that MS saw the success of Wii and wanted a piece of that pie. Since then the management has been pushing the brand towards a more casual oriented direction, having seen the successes of Wii. And have also been thriving off past success (Halo, Gears and Forza). Some of the few new IP s released since this change in management direction like Alan Wake were commissioned well before the changes occurred. Is it any coincidence that Bungie also decided to pack their bags around this time? What could cause them to do that besides finding fundamental problems with the new direction of Microsoft? They seemed to have a good thing going.

I have very little confidence in the "new" MS. They have done absolutely NOTHING to prove they have a dedication to new gaming experiences.
 

Izick

Member
Also:

exclusives for Sony = good (yay original IPs investment, Sony loves gamers)
exclusives for Microsoft = bad (omg moneyhat fuking m$, ruining game industry)

You're forgetting that XBLA arcade games don't count as exclusives because...you know...that's not fair.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Also:

exclusives for Sony = good (yay original IPs investment, Sony loves gamers)
exclusives for Microsoft = bad (omg moneyhat fuking m$ @nd b1lly gat3s shov1ng winb10ws 8, ruining game industry)

It's good to see the persecution complex isn't limited to just nintendo fanboys.
 
I think MS will bring something good to the table. I am pretty biased to the 360 though. At this point, I've realized I'll pretty much never get rid if my 360 given that I've got so many Rock Band songs and instruments that won't likely transfer.

But I'm pretty invested in the MS ecosphere. It's where my friends play now and I'm probably going to see them next gen. I actually like most, if not all, of the services for the 360 and have been using my Kinect more with my gf. I'm excited to see what new they can do with a powerful system.
 

Izick

Member
I think MS will bring something good to the table. I am pretty biased to the 360 though. At this point, I've realized I'll pretty much never get rid if my 360 given that I've got so many Rock Band songs and instruments that won't likely transfer.

But I'm pretty invested in the MS ecosphere. It's where my friends play now and I'm probably going to see them next gen. I actually like most, if not all, of the services for the 360 and have been using my Kinect more with my gf. I'm excited to see what new they can do with a powerful system.

That's going to be a big thing, I'm curious to see if all my friends continue to go with Microsoft, or if Sony will be able to bring them over.
 

Maxrunner

Member
Also:

exclusives for Sony = good (yay original IPs investment, Sony loves gamers)
exclusives for Microsoft = bad (omg moneyhat fuking m$ @nd b1lly gat3s shov1ng winb10ws 8, kinect sh1t ruining game industry)

MS as a company is sucking for quite some time...keeping launching products no one buys....win8, windows phones/tablets....etc...
 
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