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[Kerensky]

It's because people wizened up after the Wii when it came to the flood of substandard 10$ "Indies" that drowned out the more worthwhile games.

Generally speaking Indies still suffer from low replayability, a large number of unity/GM bugs that will be marked as "Shall not fix" because of lack of programming skill and short support cycles that put EA to shame.
Lastly, people still have No Man's Sky fresh in their memory which was marketed as Sony/Hello's life-changing game of the century.

People want a brand they can trust.

 

[Jakten]

It's because people wizened up after the Wii when it came to the flood of substandard 10$ "Indies" that drowned out the more worthwhile games.

Generally speaking Indies still suffer from low replayability, a large number of unity/GM bugs that will be marked as "Shall not fix" because of lack of programming skill and short support cycles that put EA to shame.
Lastly, people still have No Man's Sky fresh in their memory which was marketed as Sony/Hello's life-changing game of the century.

People want a brand they can trust.

Indie games aren't a single company. Do people also lose trust in AAA games when one game turns out bad lol. Indie games are a million different things and aren't just made by amateurs. What a stupid comment.

People are obsessed with brand loyalty though I'll give you that.

 

[PantsuJo]

What indicates whether a game is overpriced from a perusal?

As for the former, a lot of things can seem boring or uninspired without playing for one's sale, indie and AAA alike, as well as movies, books, and so on. Like games like these may not seem like much from a glance - not the flashiest graphics even by indie standards, seem simple or basic - but they're all great games

These game screens you posted are the best example of overpriced games for me, especially the last one.

Also: the point is not the flashy graphics but the fun of the game mechanics, sure.

 

[Kerensky]

Indie games aren't a company. Do people also lose trust in AAA games when one game turns out bad lol. Indie games are a million different things and aren't just made by amateurs. What a stupid comment.

Exactly, they consider themselves an ecosystem within gaming, they are unable to internalise that when a 60$ game that bandies the term "OH BTW IM INDIE XDDD" as major marketing device crashes and burns, they tarnish the reputation of the other (possibly better) ones that do the exact same thing.

People will start linking the word to kickstarter scams, shovelware and day-one bundle trash.

 

[FinalAres]

It's not really that they don't count indie games, it's usually just in response to the following argument.

"Platform A has no games" (obviously exaggerated statement meaning there aren't many games most people care about.
"umm no it has these 10 games no one's heard of". (totally misses the point).

As to why most people don't care about them? That should be obvious, and it's not down to their quality unfortunately.

 

[More_Badass]

It's because people wizened up after the Wii when it came to the flood of substandard 10$ "Indies" that drowned out the more worthwhile games.

Generally speaking Indies still suffer from low replayability, a large number of unity/GM bugs that will be marked as "Shall not fix" because of lack of programming skill and short support cycles that put EA to shame.
Lastly, people still have No Man's Sky fresh in their memory which was marketed as Sony/Hello's life-changing game of the century.

People want a brand they can trust.

A lot of generalizations in this post. For every indie with low replayability, I could probably match with decent to high replayability; indie games are just games, in every genre and subgenre as AAA games, if not more so. As for your other points, many indies games get supported with patches and fixes, and many times with more content or updates. Additionally, many indie dev teams are comprised of former AAA devs, or devs who have cut their teeth on game jams, student projects, freeware titles, and so on,

 

[HotHamBoy]

Indies on switch, on the go, give the platform life.

Vita says hi.

Literally the best thing about the Vita is that it's a portable indie machine.

No one gives a fuck or everyone would have bought one. For me, it's amazing.

 

[More_Badass]

These game screens you posted are the best example of overpriced games for me, especially the last one.

Also: the point is not the flashy graphics but the fun of the game mechanics, sure.

$13, $10, and $30 is overpriced?

And how can you weigh the "fun" of mechanics without having played said mechanics? And I don't mean in a "I don't find it fun, so it's a bad game" way

 

[Jakten]

Exactly, they consider themselves an ecosystem within gaming, they are unable to internalise that when a 60$ game that bandies the term "OH BTW IM INDIE XDDD" as major marketing device crashes and burns, they tarnish the reputation of the other (possibly better) ones that do the exact same thing.

People will start linking the word to kickstarter scams, shovelware and day-one bundle trash.

Ahh, so you know nothing about the Indie community then. Gotcha. People will start (and already do) associating like that though because people are basic and lazy. Most indie companies operate entirely separate from each other. It's not like all indie devs have a weekly meeting where they determine how their nebulous "brand" is viewed to the masses. Many of these people are oblivious to each other and their business choices.

 

[TDLink]

Indie games shouldn't be disregarded, but there's a lot of things they can't do when compared to games released by big publishers.

The budgets are not close to comparable so they are usually much shorter games offering bite sized experiences by comparison. Of course some are very re playable or longer, and that's great. But it's somewhat rare.

People complaining about stuff on Switch aren't saying the indie games are bad. They're saying it's bad that it's also not getting those bigger games in other genres, which indies simply aren't servicing.

After that, you genuinely have some parity problems. Some indies release at a later date than on other platforms (Yooka-Laylee, Hollow Knight). Some are going to be higher price on that system (Rime).

Most importantly, Indies tend to cover a few specific genres while nearly completely omitting others that are covered by the big publishers. You just aren't (right now) getting a big open world game from indies, or multiplayer shooters, or cinematic story based games. Conversely, the big publishers rarely delve into, these days, the genres indies thrive in. SHMUPS, visual novels, Metroidvanias, etc. The types of games provided by Indies and Publishers are symbiotic, you ideally want both. So it's a problem when you're solely relying on the first party to provide those type of non-indie experiences. And it's a bummer when something happens like Capcom announcing Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite, a game that can clearly run on the switch and is using an engine already ported to the switch, for everything but the Switch...when instead for the platform they are making a slightly updated version of Street Fighter 2 that they plan on selling for $40. It's not exactly equal.

 

[Shadowhelper]

If anything I tend to disregard AAA games far more than indies. So few AAA games are worthwhile or interesting, or original and that part isn't even that important.

There is also the question of what makes an indie. Is Ori really an indie? It was funded by MS. I guess, just for our purposes, it means the smaller games, from the small studios.

I think I can play cool indies for the rest of my life, but if I was only allowed to play AAA games for the rest of my life I'd probably quit gaming. The true heart of gaming lies within indies, imo.

Games, with the best most surprising stories are indies, like SOMA. On my Switch I noticed there is some hotline miami type game I've never heard of, no one is talking about? It looks really cool, but I guess I should read a review or two.

Exactly, they consider themselves an ecosystem within gaming, they are unable to internalise that when a 60$ game that bandies the term "OH BTW IM INDIE XDDD" as major marketing device crashes and burns, they tarnish the reputation of the other (possibly better) ones that do the exact same thing.

People will start linking the word to kickstarter scams, shovelware and day-one bundle trash.

I doubt this is true at all. If it is, it's irrelevant, because the same forces would be at play with AAA titles. But then why wouldn't high profile disappointing games or flops like The Order or Assassins Creed Unity, and so many others not disillusion people with AAAs?

AAA gamers like indie gamers, like all gamers, know some are good and some are bad. Like with all media.

 

[Primate_Ryan]

As for the Switch in particular, almost all indies on there right now focus almost exclusively on gameplay and have no characters or story that are worth mentioning (Shovel Knight as the sole exception maybe). There is quite a large contingent of people that value story and characters as much or more than gameplay, and moreover need the graphics to be good to be truly immersed in the game world. This is something that indies don't usually deliver.

Also, when I read through the "The lack of new game announcements for the Nintendo Switch" topic, I notice that many people, even those that are championing the upcoming games, only mention retail games. Combined with the cries for physical editions of eShop games that I spot in other topics, it seems to me that there are still quite a few people around here that only want to buy physical games and therefore don't really value most indies because they are primarily download-only games.

Additionally, many people just don't trust Nintendo with digital.

For me, the Switch has turned into an eShop machine and I haven't even finished Zelda yet. Put 80 hours into Has-Been Heroes, 20 or so in Graceful Explosion Machine etc. I love games that focus purely on gameplay and have little to no downtime or cutscenes/conversations. In my top 10 of last year, the only 'big' game was Doom, all the others were indies/lower profile/digital-only games like Thumper, Stephen's Sausage Roll and Butcher. And my top 10 has been dominated by such games for years now.

 

[Audette]

I really catch this thought process a lot especially when people would refer to PS Vita, Wii-U and some of the "droughts" the 3DS family has gone through.

I usually try to correct people (Job related I'm not going out of my way, sticking my nose in stranger's opinions) who are saying there are "no new games" on let's say Vita, just casually reminding them that there are lots of games releasing on the system, just that more are comprising of indipendent or foreign produced titles that may not immediately seem like a game they want. Sometimes research is required.

That said as a owner of a lot of mediums. I have my own bits that influence my shopping decisions on these kind of games.

#1. Not all systems are created equal. Most smaller titles come out first on PC above all else. Usually this includes cheaper pricing, and often better range of features, updates or options. Not always but definitely more often than not.

#2. Not all markets are created equal either. I don't know how to completely explain it but when I look at smaller or indie games on the 3ds the quality isn't there. NOT always but more often than not the games appear to be clones, half baked, uninspired or simply of an unappealing nature. Luckily most of the stand out titles have ports on other platforms. I hope this doesn't carry over to Switch as I am fully ready to embrace that machine, I love it.

#3. Don't discount the power of spectical. One of the most amazing things about how far gaming has come is the so called "AAA" experience. Some people only buy a few games a year and they go straight for the biggest most popular titles. they are entitled to an opinion of "no games" but it's usually true that it is simple no games that appeal to their unique desires.

That's my two cents, it is definitely neat what people think of this topic.

 

[Kill3r7]

I think the best analogy I can come up with is comparing it to following sports on TV. AAA games are like the Pros. Some people love watching the big leagues and have no interest in college sports. While others love college but hate Pro sports. The rest enjoy both.

 

[Nzyme32]

These game screens you posted are the best example of overpriced games for me, especially the last one.

Also: the point is not the flashy graphics but the fun of the game mechanics, sure.

This is utterly idiotic imo.

All of those games are relatively cheap, but their gameplay is massively more interesting and engaging than the vast majority of "AAA", other "indies" and games within the same genre.

If folks were not so busy categorising everything arbitrarily, defining excellence by graphics (which is seemingly the only explanation for specifically calling out "the last one" rather than naming it), and determine "expense" by those terms, this conversation would be utterly mute and just discussing some excellent games.

Yes, "indies" get brushed aside by lots of folks. While I care for the success such developers can have so they keep making more games of equal originality / ingenuity / gameplay being king, I don't think spending time categorising games by "indie" status and "graphics" is the way to enjoy games, even if there are plenty of people like you decrying on looks alone

 

[toythatkills]

Reading a Switch thread, I noticed something which is slightly troubling; some gamers simply don't count indie games as "real games". They only view AAA games or known franchises as "real games".

In the case of the Switch in particular, I don't think the issue is so much "indie games" as "years old indie games that everyone's already got."

Although the former does come into play a little, of course.

 

[Metalmarc]

I want to get into more Indie games. (I'm looking forward to Gangbeasts on the PS4 cos that seems original)

What are the best Indie games that we should be playing that are not based on a old game? (Rocket league your out even tho i love this game, because it is a Sequel to a already released game, otherwise it would be my number one choice )

Also not retro looking (ie 8-bit ,16 bit etc), are not shoot em ups, nor isometric view or 1st person shooters nor 2d platformers, nor topdown view games

List the Top 10 that don't feature in the above categories Go.

 

[Skinpop]

The same reason so many refuse to watch anything but the latest marvel, starwars or general blockbuster movie.

 

[neohwa]

very low budget, very poor graphics, and likely bad gameplay.

They are like the ones that you can play for free on mobile. I don't see them as real games because they are free. Just like a free lunch you got as samples from Costco is not a real meal.

 

[Eumi]

People who want triple A experiences aren't going to find them in indie games.

 

[geordiemp]

Reading a Switch thread, I noticed something which is slightly troubling; some gamers simply don't count indie games as "real games". They only view AAA games or known franchises as "real games".

I have been gaming since ZX81, spectrum and amiga days and 2d sprite, or plan view games were the norm as they were easier to do than a complex 3D game where you could look anywhere.

I played so many of them over the years, the manic miners, jet set willy's. millions of 2D platformers and side scroll shooters......and when big 3D games came out they felt more immersive - it was a big shake up.

Being able to look at anything around you felt more like you were there than watching a screen that controlled what you see. People feel the violence in games like GTA5 because you are more immersed with graphics and the control of camera.


Nobody complained about game violence when you shot enemies in defender or space invaders. Thats because they are less immersive and dont give that feeling compared to a flying swallow attack in Ninja Gaiden.

Today I get so many free indie games on PSN + that are like going back 20 years I struggle to fire them up.

Also backlogs, I have game disks like FFXV and even Horizon ZD I have not started, or bloodbourne only 1 hour in. So many more and these take priority.

 

[m00h]

I for myself couldn't care less about the indie games. I am the kind of person that would feel uncomfortable with the fact, that let's say the game I bought nowadays and am running on a Switch or a Vita for example, could be ran on a backed potatoe.
It's not about the graphical fidelity, it's about the game not properly using the resources it has available today.
I have a lot of retro stuff and really enjoy replaying some original Game Boy titles on that lovely device, because they were made for it and they utilizing the resources they were given back in the day. But I wouldn't buy a 329,- € console to play a 2D plattformer that is no different than the one released 25 years ago.
The other thing is also the limited amount of time that you have as an adult. Spending time on some pixel or lovv polygon indie adventures would for me lead to never being able to complete a lot of modern games like DOOM, GTA V or Witcher 3. And in that case I don't see the appeal of giving the indie games a higher priority than than several AAA games.
It's also funny to see how GAF is demonizing everyone who dislikes indie games. Fact is, indie games won't sell a console, no matter how you turn it around. And it doesn't help being an echo chamber repeating how ignorant the folks are who can't attach to an indie game like they do to an AAA game.

 

[Atomski]

I don't.. there are many are better then the average AAA.

 

[gelf]

I love indies and play them all the time but they usually aren't something I think about when it comes to buying new gaming hardware. In many cases of games I'm interested in I already have 5 other systems around the house that can play them.

I'd resent needing a new system for something that would be fine on the old system.

 

[SigSig]

These people just don't care about video games. They don't care for gameplay. They just care for cinematic spectacle. Now, there is nothing wrong with that: Plenty of people only watch blockbusters and don't care for anything else movies have to offer.
It's just weird that these people would hang out at GAF.

 

[Quasar]

Stupidity, elitism, fanboyism, take your pick. Games are games.

Though it reminds me of the whole vita has no games thing, when it is bursting with Indy games.

 

[KnightimeX_Legacy]

lol

Talking about half-assed.

lol yeah totally agree.
That was like a 3 minute job.

been way too lazy to change it to something someone else already made.

 

[Assanova]

To me, most indie games are just shovelware. The occasional good one comes out every now and then, but I disregard most of them because they just aren't fun to play and remind me of the shovelware found on phone app stores.

 

[CyanideFuse]

My interest in gaming would have sunken into a pit if it wasn't for indie games. Other than a handful of high-profile AAA games in the past few years I have very little interest in that scene.

The same tired copy-and-paste attitude towards gameplay coupled with over-inflated review scores for doing the same thing as every other game has left me feeling utterly bored.

 

[jariw]

very low budget, very poor graphics, and likely bad gameplay.

They are like the ones that you can play for free on mobile. I don't see them as real games because they are free. Just like a free lunch you got as samples from Costco is not a real meal.

We've spent more than 200+ hours in Terraria, lots and lots of people have spent thousands hours in Minecraft. Those kind of games are more "real" than many AAA offerings.

 

[1upsuper]

To me, most indie games are just shovelware. The occasional good one comes out every now and then, but I disregard most of them because they just aren't fun to play and remind me of the shovelware found on phone app stores.

You just described video games in general but alright.

 

[geordiemp]

These people just don't care about video games. They don't care for gameplay. They just care for cinematic spectacle. Now, there is nothing wrong with that: Plenty of people only watch blockbusters and don't care for anything else movies have to offer.
It's just weird that these people would hang out at GAF.

I dont play indie games, I will explain why. Last 2D game I played was Rayman legends.

When I played defender (side scroll shooter), I never felt the imact of killing anything. Did you ever read about violence in space invaders....I doubt it.

However, doing a attack in Gaiden felt good, it felt brutal, it was immersive, internet complained about violence in GTA5 because it was immersive.

Immersive is good graphics and full 3D camera control and those touches to actions that AAA games do to IMMERSE you i that experience that defender never can,

If an Indie game was like Gaiden, I would play it, but I ahve played a million 2D platforms and isometric / plan view shooters etc when they were 99p from the amiga market.

 

[Quasar]

If anything, the primary games on PC are indies. AAA games is the stuff that comes out between all the regular indie releases.

What qualifies a game as filler anyway?

And what qualifies as Indy? Anything third party not published by ea, Ubisoft, Square or Activision?

 

[1upsuper]

I dont play indie games, I will explain why. Last 2D game I played was Rayman legends.

When I played defender (side scroll shooter), I never felt the imact of killing anything. Did you ever read about violence in space invaders....I doubt it.

However, doing a attack in Gaiden felt good, it felt brutal, it was immersive, internet complained about violence in GTA5 because it was immersive.

Immersive is good graphics and full 3D camera control and those touches to actions that AAA games do to IMMERSE you that defender never can,

I never feel more immersed in games than when I play old CRPGs like Ultima where my imagination has to run a mile a minute to fill in the gaps. Not everyone needs all of that stuff to make an immersive experience.

 

[geordiemp]

I have never felt more immersed in a game than when I played old CRPGs like Ultima where my imagination had to run a mile a minute to fill in the gaps. Not everyone needs all of that fluff to make an immersive experience.

True, some people like retro gaming and indie gaming, I bracket them together as yoy have said above,, they have similar audience in my mind..

But you need to understand why many dont give a shit.

If everyone was like you, no publisher would spend 70 million on a triple AAA game, why bother ?

 

[sphinx]

I am kind of in the middle,

.- if a game looks like a mobile game (that shit flash-like engine all games there seem to be made on) I ignore and never look back

.- if they look retro but traditional and got buzz and positive reviews from the community like Shovel Ware or Shantae, I pay attention and look into them.

.- If they get a retail release, like the examples above and Ziggurat, Ether One, more attention I pay. Good Indies stand out from the shovelware by getting a publishing deal after having a critical success.

.- As for middle of the pack, B-tier indies that are ok, those that come free with PS+, sorry no time for that, I am old, have job and very limited time and own a PS4 and 3DS, my gaming needs are already covered,

 

[The Salt Life]

I don't play Indie games (anymore) because they bore the hell out of me. I spent enough money on $5-$20 indie games in the first year of PlayStations release to know I'll play them for about an hour and then never okay them again. Imo that makes them a waste of money.

That one hour of play scratched my itch to play something new but then I find myself being like "what am I doing?!? No"

 

[HMD]

I'm a vain person that cares for the production value put into huge AAA games. And it also doesn't help that I don't like pixelated graphics or anything resembling NES era games and a lot of indie games seem to like using that style. I don't dislike indie games, I just dislike a big portion of them for very similar reasons.

 

[fireflame]

Most of igood indie games are bound to get ports on other systems(and it is for the best).

 

[Moral Panic]

People who talk about "Indies" as if the mere existence of a game makes a platform worthwhile are just as ridiculous. We are not starved of entertainment options so that we have to take whatever trash is given to us. If a game is good then tell us why it is good, instead of just using it as padding for your list warz.

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

Reading a Switch thread, I noticed something which is slightly troubling; some gamers simply don't count indie games as "real games". They only view AAA games or known franchises as "real games".

I noticed this also with Playstation and PC as well. My question is why are indie games seen as "lesser" by the more mainstream gaming community? Is it simply conditioning to believe that a real game HAS to come from a big studio or have a big budget? Is it the graphics (some PC indies are simply stunning btw) or something else?

They didn't count when they were on psvita... that hasn't changed on Switch.

If they did then psvita has the best library ever.

Ps: I love psvita

 

[Vipershark]

Most indies aren't exclusives, and therefore aren't system sellers.

When you release a game on the Switch that's also on the Xbone, PS4, and PC, why would it being on the Switch as well make me want to buy a Switch, or why would it make me care any more about the Switch's library as opposed to the other 12 platforms that the game is on?

I mean, sure, it might have some kind of system-exclusive easter egg or something that might differentiate it (Switch portability) but that still wouldn't turn it into a system seller or something special only to that console unless that particular version really is just ridiculously far and above the other versions you could play.
And chances are, if it isn't the PC version, it isn't the best version.

Indie games were cool and a reason to buy a system back in the Xbox Live Arcade days of Braid and Geometry Wars before Steam got big when this was still a new and interesting concept which expanded the system's library exponentially and put the 360 in a favorable position.

Now every platform has these same games which effectively cause them to cancel each other out in terms of library size.
I'm not going to care if your console has Indie Game X when every other console has it too, especially if the PC version can be had for cheaper and is superior.

What I'm worried about is exclusives. Does your console have exclusive indie titles that are also of good quality? Does your platform give me a reason to buy it that I can't get elsewhere? Then I'll be interested. (No, portability is not a convincing enough reason, Switch owners.)

Anyone complaining about console wars or people not considering indies real titles are misguided. Even if that were the case, those people wouldn't care about indies on their platform of choice.

 

[B_Signal]

It's not really that they don't count indie games, it's usually just in response to the following argument.

"Platform A has no games" (obviously exaggerated statement meaning there aren't many games most people care about.
"umm no it has these 10 games no one's heard of". (totally misses the point).

As to why most people don't care about them? That should be obvious, and it's not down to their quality unfortunately.

Pretty much what I was going to write. It's the same when talking about ports or late releases, it's not that they don't count, it's that if you're looking for reasons to buy a system they probably aren't it

With regards to the Switch, I suppose the appeal of playing those games on the go might actually be a reason to buy the system, for the kind of people who frequent gaming forums at least


I think there's a difference between how you look at a systems library before you own it and after you own it. I'm not going to buy a Switch (for example) for Metal Slug, but I'll absolutely buy it when I have one. The indies can sustain but for most people they aren't a reason to buy

 

[Jawbreaker]

Regarding the Switch, they're games already available on many other platforms, usually at a discounted price. If you care about portability, there's the Vita and the GPD Win, too. Some people discard those titles in "list wars" because they can play them elsewhere, hence they feel no obligation to purchase a Nintendo Switch.

Regarding the general attitude towards indie games (which you can plainly see in PlayStation Plus threads), it's pretty disheartening. I suppose they might prioritize higher production values. Just like I don't write off entire genres of music, I don't write off all indie games. Even if there's a lot of crud to wade through, you'll find absolute gems that offer more than some AAA titles.

 

[Kyry]

I don't have a problem with games because they are indie, its download only games that bother me. I don't see myself owning a switch anytime soon, because the vast majority of games seem download only.

 

[King Gilga]

Just out of curiosity, what does the exclusivity of a game to a platform have to do with how much you enjoy it?

I only play exclusives on consoles.

 

[Oneself]

I sure wish I could disregard indie games. My PS4 backlog is unbearable.

 

[RM8]

There are more indie games I like than AAA games these days. They're often more focused on fun gameplay and they're much cheaper too. What's not to love?

 

[xRaizen]

Most indie games I've played from PS+ and many Humble Bundles are complete and utter garbage.

Tired of them tbh. Whenever I see indie I just roll my eyes.

 

[tenderbrew]

I'm more likely to write off the glut of open world check box games. More often than not there are way more interesting indie games in a year than AAA games and usually they are more creative and engaging gameplay wise. This year might be a big exception as we've finally had some creative bigger budget titles and all at once. Nioh, Nier, BOTW, Horizon, Persona 5 all kind of restored my faith. But I've put hundreds of hours into Isaac, tens of hours into Shovel Knight, and thousands more into indies on my PC.