polyh3dron
Banned
So does this mean Uncharted PS4 is 1080p/60FPS confirmed?
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Naughty Dog: PS4 has 5 GB RAM/6 CPU cores available to devs, talks using them
- Thread starter Wishmaster92
- Start date
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
What is this 3 gb of ram being used for if it can't even play mp3s
Considering a full install of Windows doesn't even use that much, it's not unreasonable to consider the reserve excessive. That doesn't mean we're accusing them of being lazy devs or anything, it just means they're reserving a lot of RAM for the OS. No need to read so much into it.
dragonbane
Member
Eurogamer mentioned 4.5 GB RAM and 500 mb virtual RAM arriving at a total 5 GB RAM available for developers. This seems to support that, even though the 500 mb part is not mentioned.
Hehe. That will definitely help in the case of games that pre-load a lot of stuff and then stream the rest resulting in a single extensive load time on boot-up. SSD should nicely improve the initial loading time in games from ND and QD for sure as they both rely on this method to get rid of mid-level loading screens. Of course it will massively help with the worst offenders such as GT too.Good thing I swapped in a SSHD
Oh, I was at this talk, it was at my University. It was extremely fascinating to follow along since it relates so closely to my education, and I love Naughty Dog games.
I'm not sure if they cut this part, but at some time Jason mentions they use Scheme at Naughty Dog, and the auditorium pretty much exploded at that time because that's the language we used for Fundamentals of Programming, but everyone just assumed it was educational only -- not a lot of practical uses outside of the class room (especially when CLisp exists).
Good times!
Edit: Yeah, it was cut from the video :<
The usage of Lisp in ND has been well known in the industry. Jason is the author of Game Engine Architecture, and in the book he reveals several development gems in ND.
As for this talk, it's nothing new in terms of tech. The only interesting part is the confirmation of 2 reserved CPU cores and 3 reserved gigs.
UnrealEck
Member
No. 1080p at 60 FPS is entirely dependant on what the game is asking of the hardware.
I don't even know of a single game so far that actually maintains 60 FPS at that resolution. It depends on how much is going on in a scene. Developers like ND seem to spend a lot of time building a scene to performance budget really maticulously.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
So all the rumors of more than 5 GB RAM allocation were BS. Who'd have thunk it?
When you say that, it reminds me of an article about -- I believe -- the game Another World for the Atari ST, in which the developer mentioned scheduling jobs in timeslots in 32 "channels" to implement asynchronous background tasks. I always found it amazing this was accomplished on a low-spec machine. Off-topic I suppose, but it's interesting how this approach isn't exclusive to multicore, high performance machines. Of course, he didn't call it "fibers."
Finally...nice to see some comments from a studio that is truly competent. I expect to see some truly amazing things on PS4 in the coming year and years. I really believe there is a lot more than what we have seen out of the PS4. Right now we have not seen any games that truly takes advantage of the architecture of PS4...the GPGPU, extra ACEs,etc...I am really looking forward to these games that actually take advantage of thse things. We are in that nasty cross-gen phase still.
Yeah lol. The nonstop "ads, kinect, windows 8" posts.
I guess I didn't understand that a Windows install was the baseline for determining excessive memory usage. I might just do a clean install of Windows for my PS4.
SniperHunter
Banned
people were mainly mocking the 10% gpu reserve iirc. but it seems like both systems are wasting precious system resources on casual bullshit os features.
freefornow
Gold Member
Mocked? Crucifixion would be a more apt term.
Happened on the PS3, it will happen here.
Better to have more than you need and then give back the excess than need more than you have and unable to take any back.
Its called common sense, no need to be a technical wizard to understand that.
So many in here getting carried away with over dramatics.
dragonbane
Member
Eurogamer seems to have gotten it right as far as I can see. 4.5 + 0.5 = 5. The semantics of the 0.5 part weren't exactly clear however.
IIRC it was being rumored that 2 or 3 were to be reserved and if at some point in the next 4-8 years you want your OS to be bigger and have good BC on titles it makes sense to allot the full amount now for OS reserve.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
This has been known since before the consoles came out. The OS' take a big portion to prepare for future updates/features (7-10yr cycle is a long time). iirc the Xbone is about the same in how much is reserved for the OS.
Oh this stuff again nice.
Andrefpvs
Member
Of course Lisp is used by ND. And not only by them. I was talking about the usage of Scheme specifically, since for a significant part of the people present at this talk, Scheme was the first contact they had with programming.
Reallink
Member
Are you insinuating the PS4 OS should require more memory and/or does more than Windows?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
So there 5gbs available.. But wasn't there and extra reserve that Devs can pick out if if they needed it, adding on 1+ making it 6?
You think about how Guerilla are absolute beasts at tech because that's what they're BEST known foe. Sometimes I forget that Naughty Dog, since they're highly regarded developers all-around, are just as mind-blowing as Guerilla in the tech realm.
Sony's teams are just incredible with the tech side of games. SSM obviously, Evolution, Liverpool (RIP), Media Molecule, and Sucker Punch is now up there, too.
I'm really excited for PS4's first party output looking forward.
Sony's teams are just incredible with the tech side of games. SSM obviously, Evolution, Liverpool (RIP), Media Molecule, and Sucker Punch is now up there, too.
I'm really excited for PS4's first party output looking forward.
speculawyer
Member
Just give me Uncharted 4 ASAP.
Insert "Windows" with any other OS, all with more functionality than the PS4 OS, and it would be the same argument. But feel free to continue to be furious about something I suppose.
Yeah its pretty amazing seeing what they can do this early.
Yeah, because the different type of RAM totally wasn't a reason for that.
I would suspect no and it's more of a case of going "If you wanted to do this it's perfectly reasonable".
It isn't about should and should not. The two systems aren't comparable.
hahaha.
I'll put the over/under on 5% chance that UC4 is 1080/60....it's gonna be 1080/30 all the way...
Certainly not an inherent RAM issue as that has never happened to me...
This is not shocking news to me...though I think 2GB should be enough to pull off the PS4's OS...I think most are missing the concept that just because 3GB is reserved does not mean its all being used...
The idea is you reserve more than you need so that you have wiggle room to add features and such...you can always give some back as you optimize and shrink the OS footprint...you can't take more away later on when you find out you goofed (PS3 cross game chat)
speculawyer
Member
Yeah, it is kinda odd how the massive SOFTWARE company Microsoft doesn't have really good software teams. They've outsourced much of their exclusive content (DeadRising 3, Ryse, Titanfall, etc.) They have some good internal teams (Turn10, Rare, 343) but they have not wowed us lately.
It had nothing to do with the type of RAM. The debate was that the Xbox One wasn't a gaming console first because it was allocating 3 of the available 8 gigs of RAM for non gaming usage.
Hexa
Member
I think at this point, while games still obviously are still code and numbers, they're more 'media' than just plain old software, and thus it makes sense that Sony which has a powerful media arm has a stronger set of internal teams.
Wishmaster92
Member
They need their own ICE team now more than ever considering how the system is currently performing.
TheSinkingKnight
Member
What kind of features could possibly be added with the RAM reserve? I can't really think of that could be added, except maybe a better invite system.
That could be considered good news, as it's far too early to max the system out.
Once good optimization for the OS occurs, then Sony will be able to give some of that remaining 3 GB's of RAM for developers in order for them to have good looking games in the future.
boredandlazy
Member
It can't open a simple word document either. WTF Sony?
screw 1080/60, I want 1080/30 fps with mind blowing graphics and physics.
The 5GB available isn't new news. It was clarified by DF in July last year.
The confusion is probably around the difference between Direct Memory and Flexible Memory. ND were talking about how that manage RAM allocation. I'd imagie they were just refereing to the Direct Memory. That is, the chuck of GDDR5 that they have full control over.
As per the articles from July last year, there is also another section of Flexible RAM which is managed by the Linux based OS. Developers wouldn't be able to micro manage RAM allocation if this was handled by the OS.
So yeah, based on what DF said last year, and what ND are saying now, it seems like devs have access to 5GB of Direct RAM. And if no-one contradicts the DF article fro last year, they will also have access to an additional 1GB of OS managed Flexible RAM.
If that's the case, the posts last year from Thuway et al that games have 6GB to play with are accurate.
Digital Foundry said:
The confusion is probably around the difference between Direct Memory and Flexible Memory. ND were talking about how that manage RAM allocation. I'd imagie they were just refereing to the Direct Memory. That is, the chuck of GDDR5 that they have full control over.
As per the articles from July last year, there is also another section of Flexible RAM which is managed by the Linux based OS. Developers wouldn't be able to micro manage RAM allocation if this was handled by the OS.
So yeah, based on what DF said last year, and what ND are saying now, it seems like devs have access to 5GB of Direct RAM. And if no-one contradicts the DF article fro last year, they will also have access to an additional 1GB of OS managed Flexible RAM.
If that's the case, the posts last year from Thuway et al that games have 6GB to play with are accurate.
Byakuya769
Member
Prove it.
Not at all. The Xbone was already at a bandwidth disadvantage, so the fact that they even allocated 3gb to the OS was even more jarring. We already knew that the PS4 reserved at least 2gb.
I'd like 30fps for SP and 60 for multiplayer myself.