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[FUBAR McDangles]

Pretty good evidence that the EA guys have no idea what they're doing.

Suter wasn't even top 5 last year EA pls

I think it's pretty darn likely that Ryan Suter is a top five defender in the game in most peoples' minds. Top 3? Eh I'm not so sure but seeing him in that group isn't something so outlandish.

Parise as a top three LW is a bit more debatable - I think he is a really good player, certainly a top line player and someone to help build a franchise around but I'm not sure he is as big of an offensive threat time in and time out like Taylor Hall or Jamie Benn, for example. Parise has intangibles and effort levels that put those guys to shame but offensively I don't think he is at their level. A bit of an odd choice, I think.

A large part of this, however, is that there really aren't many great LWs in the NHL right now. Especially with a guy like OV being a RW now. Talented offensive players in today's league tend to be centers or RWs. Not too many distinct LWs of quality.

 

[Red_Man]

Suter isn't even a top 5 D let alone top 3.

 

[Marvie_3]

I think it's pretty darn likely that Ryan Suter is a top five defender in the game in most peoples' minds. Top 3? Eh I'm not so sure but seeing him in that group isn't something so outlandish.

Parise as a top three LW is a bit more debatable - I think he is a really good player, certainly a top line player and someone to help build a franchise around but I'm not sure he is as big of an offensive threat time in and time out like Taylor Hall or Jamie Benn, for example. Parise has intangibles and effort levels that put those guys to shame but offensively I don't think he is at their level. A bit of an odd choice, I think.

A large part of this, however, is that there really aren't many great LWs in the NHL right now. Especially with a guy like OV being a RW now. Talented offensive players in today's league tend to be centers or RWs. Not too many distinct LWs of quality.

Top 10 maybe. No way he's top 5.

 

[Heretic]

Welcome to the fourth page

YES!

 

[calder]

TANGENT: with nfl training camps in full swing I feel like I'm almost ready to pick a team to cheer for. Instead of watching the games without a rooting interest beyond gambling or pretending the platonic thrill of pure enjoyment as a neutral observer is a higher state of being for a sports fan like that fucking weirdo Chuck Klosterman I'll be a legit fan.

My choices are the Bears (I like asshole QBs, they have less annoying fanbases here than the Vikings or Packets) or, groan, the Cowboys, who I'd pick only because of my inlaws. They suck, which is good because Baby Jesus hates band wagoners, but they have a terrible owner who will ensure they suck till he dies which may be longer than I want to wait.

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

Suter isn't even a top 5 D let alone top 3.

Top 10 maybe. No way he's top 5.

I disagree but I can agree with the idea. Lots of these guys play at a high level and it is hard to rank them and agree with everybody on it.

Who do you guys have above him?

 

[Red_Man]

I disagree but I can agree with the idea. Lots of these guys play at a high level and it is hard to rank them and agree with everybody on it.

Who do you guys have above him?

Just off the top of my head: Weber, Keith, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Subban, Karlsson, McDonagh, Chara, are all guys I would take over Suter.

 

[calder]

In rough order only:

Doughty
Subban
Vlasic
Keith
Chara
Karlsson
Weber
Pietrangelo

Maybes:
Ekman-Larson (seriously)
Buff if he wasn't wasted at forward


I might be forgetting a couple

 

[Marvie_3]

I disagree but I can agree with the idea. Lots of these guys play at a high level and it is hard to rank them and agree with everybody on it.

Who do you guys have above him?

To start,

Keith
Weber
Subban
Doughty
Chara

Suter replaces Chara on that list soon though.

I still think Suter should have won the Norris last year though.

 

[Smiley90]

Suter is a top5 defensive D. Not a top5 D. Maybe even a top3 defensive D.

 

[KernelPanic]

So my PC suddenly won't boot, well it seems to load Windows but no video.

I open it up and my video card is nearly split in half (fan assembly coming off). I look into it some more and the actual chip falls out.

Yeah I know my 5770 isn't the newest thing but how the fuck does that happen?

 

[Marvie_3]

Suter is a top5 defensive D. Not a top5 D. Maybe even a top3 defensive D.

This I can agree with.

 

[DopeyFish]

So my PC suddenly won't boot, well it seems to load Windows but no video.

I open it up and my video card is nearly split in half (fan assembly coming off). I look into it some more and the actual chip falls out.

Yeah I know my 5770 isn't the newest thing but how the fuck does that happen?

Probably the heatsink lost its heat conductivity after the fan assembly popped off, gpu overheated which caused the solder to soften (heat has got to go somewhere)... the thermal compound was probably still bonding with the gpu and heatsink and detached the gpu from the board

That's just my guess without knowing anything

Though a processor without any heatsink attached would essentially burn itself out and make a very loud whining sound while leaving a really bad stench of silicon in the air... i know because reasons

 

[Acid08]

Just off the top of my head: Weber, Keith, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Subban, Karlsson, McDonagh, Chara, are all guys I would take over Suter.

McDonagh over Suter? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

Just off the top of my head: Weber, Keith, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Subban, Karlsson, McDonagh, Chara, are all guys I would take over Suter.

Weber and Keith unquestionably, Subban and Karlsson likely, but I truly think Doughty, Piet, McDonagh, and Chara are all overrated in most respects. But then again I think all are at about an equal level to Suter or just behind in McDonagh's case. It's a group of five guys that I think are all pretty interchangeable.

In rough order only:

Doughty
Subban
Vlasic
Keith
Chara
Karlsson
Weber
Pietrangelo

Maybes:
Ekman-Larson (seriously)
Buff if he wasn't wasted at forward

Buff is a big no. OEL has a bright future ahead of him and might get to that level but I feel like we've been saying that for the last three years and he just has not seemed to take that next step. Vlasic has taken strides forward but I don't think he's up there yet personally.

I might be forgetting a couple

To start,

Keith
Weber
Subban
Doughty
Chara

Suter replaces Chara on that list soon though.

I still think Suter should have won the Norris last year though.

He was so good two years ago. So goddamn good.

Last year he was still pretty darn good but not nearly as good as before. I hope he can return to that level this year with the increased offense that our new guys + age improvements we will likely get from Coyle/Granlund/Nino.

Suter is a top5 defensive D. Not a top5 D. Maybe even a top3 defensive D.

Good call. Suter doesn't score many goals but he has a great outlet pass.

Then again, he got a very impressive hat trick last year that was pretty darn awesome.

 

[Socreges]

McDonagh over Suter? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

He was massive against the Habs. So yeah. Probably the best hockey he's played, but otherwise definitely below Suter.

 

[Red_Man]

Suter is a top5 defensive D. Not a top5 D. Maybe even a top3 defensive D.

He's one of the most zonally sheltered D in the league

Weber and Keith unquestionably, Subban and Karlsson likely, but I truly think Doughty, Piet, McDonagh, and Chara are all overrated in most respects. But then again I think all are at about an equal level to Suter or just behind in McDonagh's case. It's a group of five guys that I think are all pretty interchangeable.

Doughty, Piet, McDonagh and Chara are all overrated? :lol :lol Doughty is probably the best overall D right now, and Chara will be taken off this list soon due to age.

 

[KernelPanic]

Probably the heatsink lost its heat conductivity after the fan assembly popped off, gpu overheated which caused the solder to soften (heat has got to go somewhere)... the thermal compound was probably still bonding with the gpu and heatsink and detached the gpu from the board

That's just my guess without knowing anything

Though a processor without any heatsink attached would essentially burn itself out and make a very loud whining sound while leaving a really bad stench of silicon in the air... i know because reasons

Yeah that makes sense. No idea how the assembly came apart though. I know that burning smell well and I didn't pick up anything.

Now I need to go sit in the Master Race PC thread, I haven't built a PC in years. Need a new vid card but the rest of the PC is old I wonder if I should just replace most/all of it. I know my 350W PS ain't gonna work with any card on the market.

 

[zroid]

If anything I think Doughty might be a little underrated haha

 

[Solo]

Chara is done. He looked old and slow last season.

 

[Smiley90]

He's one of the most zonally sheltered D in the league

Doughty, Piet, McDonagh and Chara are all overrated? :lol :lol Doughty is probably the best overall D right now, and Chara will be taken off this list soon due to age.

This made me look up defensive zone starts

:lol 5 of the top10 most defensive zone-starting Dmen in the league are Leafs players

:lol dat possession game

 

[apocalidiot]

TANGENT: with nfl training camps in full swing I feel like I'm almost ready to pick a team to cheer for. Instead of watching the games without a rooting interest beyond gambling or pretending the platonic thrill of pure enjoyment as a neutral observer is a higher state of being for a sports fan like that fucking weirdo Chuck Klosterman I'll be a legit fan.

My choices are the Bears (I like asshole QBs, they have less annoying fanbases here than the Vikings or Packets) or, groan, the Cowboys, who I'd pick only because of my inlaws. They suck, which is good because Baby Jesus hates band wagoners, but they have a terrible owner who will ensure they suck till he dies which may be longer than I want to wait.

Chuck Klosterman sucks ass, go with the Bears

 

[Red_Man]

This made me look up defensive zone starts

:lol 5 of the top10 most defensive zone-starting Dmen in the league are Leafs players

:lol dat possession game

Habs blogger was talking about this yesterday and posted this :

http://www.extraskater.com/players/deployment?min_gp=90&pos=D&sort=zs_pct_rel

 

[Smiley90]

Also Red, sorry to burst your bubble but Suter doesn't have sheltered minutes.

In order from highest to lowest, here's the top10 in biggest percentage share of their own team's defensive zone starts at even strength. (e.g. Shea Weber was on the ice for 51.1% of the Preds defensive zone starts)

1 Shea Weber D Predators 51.1%
2 Roman Josi D Predators 49.8%
3 Ryan Suter D Wild 47.5%
4 Dan Girardi D Rangers 47.0%
5 Ryan McDonagh D Rangers 46.9%
6 TJ Brodie D Flames 45.5%
7 Jay Bouwmeester D Blues 45.4%
8 Drew Doughty D Kings 44.7%
9 Alex Pietrangelo D Blues 44.4%
10 Travis Hamonic D Islanders 43.8%

Dem shutdown pairs. Weber-Josi, Girardi-McDonagh, Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo.

Habs blogger was talking about this yesterday and posted this :

http://www.extraskater.com/players/deployment?min_gp=90&pos=D&sort=zs_pct_rel

They're quoting the wrong stat to illustrate that point though. I'd argue team-share zone start is much more illustrative of their role on the team. Yes, Suter plays a lot of offensive minutes. BUT he also plays a TON of defensive minutes, see above. he just plays a ton in general. :lol

 

[Marvie_3]

Chuck Klosterman sucks ass, go with the Bears

boo this man

 

[zroid]

ugh, just heard about Ekblad's concussion :*(

 

[Smiley90]

For comparison, here's the top10 offensive zone starts shares

1 Ryan Suter D Wild 57.5%
2 Erik Karlsson D Senators 49.0%
3 Jonas Brodin D Wild 45.2%
4 Shea Weber D Predators 44.6%
5 Roman Josi D Predators 43.4%
6 Travis Hamonic D Islanders 40.7%
7 Andrew Ference D Oilers 40.5%
8 Jared Spurgeon D Wild 40.3%
9 P.K. Subban D Canadiens 40.3%
10 Brian Campbell D Panthers 40.1%

TL;DR, Suter, Weber, Josi and Hamonic play a ton in general. Suter is on the ice for 57.5% offensive and 47.5% defensive zone starts for the wild. Does he get a ton of offensive starts? for sure. Does he still get top10 defensive starts in the league? Also true. He just plays WAY more minutes than the rest. So do Weber, Josi and Hamonic.


to prove this, Suter also plays by far the most minutes of any d-man (and player, probably), here's time-on-ice percentage

1 Ryan Suter D Wild 45.6%
2 Erik Karlsson D Senators 41.9%
3 Brian Campbell D Panthers 41.1%
4 Travis Hamonic D Islanders 40.6%
5 Shea Weber D Predators 40.6%
6 Jonas Brodin D Wild 39.7%
7 Roman Josi D Predators 39.5%
8 TJ Brodie D Flames 39.0%
9 Andrew MacDonald D Islanders, Flyers 38.6%
10 P.K. Subban D Canadiens 38.6%

I've highlighted the ones that show up on both lists. Just because they play a lot of offensive zone doesn't mean they play little defensive zone - they just play a lot. The only ones who I'd argue get sheltered minutes from these top10 above would be Ference and Spurgeon. (Ference is 27th in time-on-ice percentage, Spurgeon only 52nd)

 

[Red_Man]

He plays a lot of minutes, but his overall ZS% rel is much higher than every D man we've compared him to besides Karlsson.

 

[Marvie_3]

here's time-on-ice percentage

It makes me happy to not see Keith on this list anymore. Having a 2nd pairing that can eat up a ton of minutes has helped him a ton.

 

[DopeyFish]

I think we're all missing the key statistic in this discussion

What's Suter's dopey rating?

I'LL LET YOU KNOW AT A LATER DATE

ps CORSI QoC is junk.

 

[Red_Man]

Here's a great article on him from a Wild blogger, so you can exclude any assumed bias:

http://www.hockeywilderness.com/wil...ng-to-make-sense-of-ryan-suters-negative-puck

He's a greatoverall D-man, but when people say he's a top 5 defensive D-man, it's just not true, and his usage shows it. He's been playing easy minutes compared to other top D men in this league. I think the fact that he plays so many minutes is what fools people into thinking he's a top 5 guy.

 

[Smiley90]

He plays a lot of minutes, but his overall ZS% rel is much higher than every D man we've compared him to besides Karlsson.

You know why his overall ZS% is higher than that of most? Because he plays by far the most of every player. He has the most offensive zone an the THIRD MOST defensive zone starts of any defenseman. That's not "sheltered". Does he play more offensive than defensive? Yes. Does he play little defensive? Hell no. Look at the numbers dude. I mean, if you call suter sheltered you have to call every other dman aside from Weber and Josi sheltered, because they all play less dzone than Suter.

 

[Smiley90]

Here's a great article on him from a Wild blogger, so you can exclude any assumed bias:

http://www.hockeywilderness.com/wil...ng-to-make-sense-of-ryan-suters-negative-puck

He's a greatoverall D-man, but when people say he's a top 5 defensive D-man, it's just not true, and his usage shows it. He's been playing easy minutes compared to other top D men in this league. I think the fact that he plays so many minutes is what fools people into thinking he's a top 5 guy.

Look at total numbers, not just relative.

A player that plays 30% offensive and 15% defensive is sheltered.

A player that plays 30% offensive and 30% defensive is not sheltered. A player that plays 55% offensive and 40% defensive is.......?
How does him playing a lot make him less of a defensive d-man oO

 

[KernelPanic]

A player that plays 30% offensive and 15% defensive is sheltered.

I'd argue that largely demonstrates how a coach chooses to deploy the player.

You'd have to look at matchups to really determine that. Sheltered players are kept off the ice when the other teams best players are on.

 

[Red_Man]

Look at total numbers, not just relative.

A player that plays 30% offensive and 15% defensive is sheltered.

A player that plays 30% offensive and 30% defensive is not sheltered. A player that plays 55% offensive and 40% defensive is.......?
How does him playing a lot make him less of a defensive d-man oO

If he's so amazing in a defensive role, why is he getting such high offensive zone starts? He's getting the same offensive zone usage as Karlsson, while producing 30 less points, on a playoff team. Sheltered may have been the wrong word as he does face a lot of top competition, but his offensive zone minutes compared to other top D man is ridiculously high, and not just because of how much he plays, but because of how he's being used in comparison. Not to mention that he has a negative corsi relative, and look at that blog and and the chart they post about the team stats per 20 mins with him on / off the ice. He's not even the top on the Wild.

 

[Smiley90]

I'd argue that largely demonstrates how a coach chooses to deploy the player.

You'd have to look at matchups to really determine that. Sheltered players are kept off the ice when the other teams best players are on.

True that. But if you play the 3rd most defensive zone starts in the league, odds are you're not being kept off against the other team's best players.

Also if you just go by QoC, Dion Phaneuf is the best D-man in the league. So there's that.
You also get names like Gunnarson and Oduya in the top 10.

If he's so amazing in a defensive role, why is he getting such high offensive zone starts? He's getting the same offensive zone usage as Karlsson, while producing 30 less points, on a playoff team. Sheltered may have been the wrong word as he does face a lot of top competition, but his offensive zone minutes compared to other top D man is ridiculously high, and not just because of how much he plays, but because of how he's being used in comparison. Not to mention that he has a negative corsi relative, and look at that blog and and the chart they post about the team stats per 20 mins with him on / off the ice. He's not even the top on the Wild.

Because he's ALSO decent offensively? Not as good as Karlsson for sure, but if anything this just shows that the Wild really don't have any good offensive Dmen to replace him with, so they just make him play in every situation.

Not surprised that his stats are worse because he plays so much. Dude must be exhausted. If the Wild got a PP specialist he'd probably be taken off, and his corsi would probably improve because he could play less minutes. More of a testiment to the Wild's reliance on him, not that he's bad.

 

[Red_Man]

Dunno why we're having this discussion seeing as we pretty much all agreed he's a top 10 D man at best anyways :lol :lol I think the minutes he plays precedes his play whenever anyone discusses him, and it looks like the Wild have a pretty great group of young D coming up behind him anyways.

 

[Smiley90]

Dunno why we're having this discussion seeing as we pretty much all agreed he's a top 10 D man at best anyways :lol :lol I think the minutes he plays precedes his play whenever anyone discusses him, and it looks like the Wild have a pretty great group of young D coming up behind him anyways.

Because we're bored and it feels good to be talking hockey?

 

[Samyy]

But how high is his compete level?
Is he a heart and soul player?

 

[Red_Man]

Because we're bored and it feels good to be talking hockey?

True. Better than anything else we've been discussing for the last 3 months. When do we start making our season predictions?

But how high is his compete level?
Is he a heart and soul player?

And most importantly, how does he feel about water bottles?

 

[Samyy]

True. Better than anything else we've been discussing for the last 3 months. When do we start making our season predictions?

And most importantly, how does he feel about water bottles?

:lol found a new one!

 

[Smiley90]

True. Better than anything else we've been discussing for the last 3 months. When do we start making our season predictions?

Leafs are gonna start off well, be close to or in a playoff spot, the fanbase will start yelling for a cup and then the team will collapse sometime between February and April and will end up with a draft pick between 5 and 14.

 

[Samyy]

Leafs are gonna start off well, be close to or in a playoff spot, the fanbase will start yelling for a cup and then the team will collapse sometime between February and April and will end up with a draft pick between 5 and 14.

You'd laugh at us if we had a top 5 pick this year?
Laugh all you want, I'd be super happy.

 

[Red_Man]

:lol found a new one!

I'm not sure how to feel about these

 

[zroid]

We need to aim lower.


...unfortunately I actually do think the Leafs are a (slightly) better team this year than the last, and the East seems to be overall weaker. Does not bode well for the tank.

 

[Samyy]

We need to aim lower.


...unfortunately I actually do think the Leafs are a (slightly) better team this year than the last, and the East seems to be overall weaker. Does not bode well for the tank.

Honestly my opinion about the Leafs is that its not so much the team, more about the systems.

I refuse to believe the team is actually that god awful defensively and in terms of possession just based on players alone.

 

[zroid]

Honestly my opinion about the Leafs is that its not so much the team, more about the systems.

I refuse to believe the team is actually that god awful defensively and in terms of possession just based on players alone.

That too. Despite Carlyle staying on, with the other changes I don't see the systems being as bad.



In other news, have a little self-respect Crazed, come on.

 

[Samyy]

I'm not sure how to feel about these

Could I interest you in a shirt then perhaps?

 

[Red_Man]

I won't be surprised either way if the Leafs make the playoffs or miss. They have the pieces, just need the direction. Who knows how Carlyle will be this year. I think the top 5 seeds in the east are pretty much settled, Boston, Tampa, Montreal, NY, Pittsburgh.

 

[Samyy]

I won't be surprised either way if the Leafs make the playoffs or miss. They have the pieces, just need the direction. Who knows how Carlyle will be this year. I think the top 5 seeds in the east are pretty much settled, Boston, Tampa, Montreal, NY, Pittsburgh.

I think Blue Jackets/Islanders/Detroit get in