Vawn
Banned
The cheaper version will outsell the premium model by quite a lot.
Price, Games > Everything else
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Xbox Series S / Lockhart Details To Be Revealed Soon; Console Will Be Priced At Around $300 – Rumor
- Thread starter sonomamashine
- Start date
- Rumor
The cheaper version will outsell the premium model by quite a lot.
Price, Games > Everything else
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Not sure that's quite the same thing but lets see what Microsoft presents.
One question. Why would XSX and PS5 need/have a disc drive but Lockhart wouldn't if everyone now embraces digital?
Obviously if Lockhart has a disc drive then all this is moot....
sonomamashine
Member
Current gen games yes, next gen games will have more details so it will be safe to have that 6Tf for future proofing, and don't forget i mentioned 1080p/1440p machine not 1080p alone.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Especially with Game Pass and targeted at families. This will be sold at $23 a month for 24 months with Xbox All Access, console including Game Pass Ultimate.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
6 TF GCN Polaris = 4 TF RDNA1
But it's 4 TF RDNA2, which supposedly is up to 50 % faster than RDNA1. So it could be those 4 TF RDNA2 = 6 TF RDNA1 = 9 TF GCN Polaris.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Stop thinking like a fanboy, and look at it from a business standpoint. MS have already said they will continue to support the current platforms for the next 2 years. Which means that from a revenue standpoint the only benefit of selling new hardware is the slim margin on the sale.
This is not like previous generational transitions, its more like a mid-gen refresh except with the promise of exclusive product for the new system YEARS down the line before it becomes the standard. No previous gen shift has been so focussed on continuity in software and services.
The problem with Lockhart is that its not really additive, its just a replacement lower entry-point offering that is going to compete with the 3 presently offered Xbox One SKU's, as well as the SX.
Last edited:
Night.Ninja
Banned
In country's that don't have american peasant internet i don't it will be that hard, it just has to be a decent price. Out side of gaming no one fucks with disks any more.
Only time i'm buying a game on disk is if its cheap.
sonomamashine
Member
RDNA2 is faster by 50% over RDNA1 ?
not at all, they will make sure to put series x look like a bargain compared to serie s
or 549$
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
RDNA 2 Power and Performance Improvements To Take on Nvidia | Analysis - EXCLUSIVE
Last year, AMD debuted their highly anticipated RDNA architecture to the world, with the highest-end SKU being the Radeon RX 5700 XT, powered by the Navi 1
www.redgamingtech.com
Well, according to one of my sources the optimization works of Suzanne Plummer and her team over at Radeon Technology group is now paying dividends and the second generation of RDNA is a drastic improvement over the first because of this.
Back in 2018 Suzanne Plummer provided a few hints to this, “A lot of what we did in Zen was trying to push well beyond what we thought we could do,” says Plummer, “and I think that is something we’re trying to do in the graphics space as well to make a bigger leap forward.
“We’ve pulled in some of the expertise from the microprocessor cores team into the graphics team, kinda helping with our methodology, and improving our frequency and our performance and power. And just taking the best that we have already developed in-house and trying to make sure that we’re using the same improvements across the company.”
[...]
My source tells me that Renoir and its GPU is a hint of what we can expect, where the designers took an established GPU architecture (Vega) but improved it significantly over Picasso. Robert Hallock from AMD recently pointed out how different the Vega CU is in Renoir – a 59% performance uplift per CU versus the Vega CU’s residing inside the Picasso architecture.
[...]
From what I am able to piece together now from multiple sources, the second generation of RDNA will feature improvements in performance because of the architecture, considerably more Compute Units compared to RDNA 1 and also likely scale much better with clock frequency too.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
For a long time I wasn’t sure what the point of Lockhart would be but now that I’m reading through this thread I could maybe see myself going the Lockhart route if the PS5 is at least close to as powerful as XsX.
If PS5 is a beast at least similar to XsX I can go Sony for the power route and Lockhart for the Game Pass catalog and whatnot
If PS5 is a beast at least similar to XsX I can go Sony for the power route and Lockhart for the Game Pass catalog and whatnot
mckmas8808
Banned
So people REALLY think Lockhart will be $299?
mckmas8808
Banned
There's NO WAY rdna2 is 50% more efficient than rdna1. You can't believe that can you?
sonomamashine
Member
Lol i was surprised he believed it.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Yeah it seems difficult to get it that low:
Say $60 ($120 XSX) for the APU, $60 ($80 XSX) for 12GB RAM and a $30 saving for the disc drive gives ~$110 saving on the BOM and maybe a little more if the casing/cooling is simpler. I can only see a ~$100 difference at retail between the two?
Vawn
Banned
I actually do, yes. $350 tops, but that's such a harder sell than $299.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
I don't know. That's why I said it could be. It's the only source that reports that, so I wouldn't take it for granted, but he had been right before,
mckmas8808
Banned
How though? Do you think Lockhart won't have the SSD in it or something?
ResilientBanana
Member
As of now, it's the only rumor we have to go on.
splattered
Member
MS said they will continue to support the systems, they didnt day they will continue to sell the systems.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Xbox One APU was $110 for 350 mm^2, 7nm is 66 % more expensive than that. So Series X APU would be around $200. Series S is supposedly around half of X in terms of die size at 20 CU vs. 56 but with the same AI, Raytracing and Zen 2 cores. There are your first $100 + 25 for RAM + 30 for no UHD + 30 for 500 GB vs. 1 TB SSD + less cooling plus less plastic because of smaller size. Should easily be $200 cheaper than XSX.
ethomaz
Banned
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
I can absolutely see it being like 2/3rd of the height but otherwise identical. Would be 15x15x20 cm.
Night.Ninja
Banned
350 of Lockhart is real
NAI1210
Member
I call BS on this screen platinum haven't worked towards the goal of self publishing their own games for the past 10 years a goal they are very proudly about to achieve to let someone just come in and aquire them
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
It was already confirmed that MS tried to acquire Platinum and failed. So if that's the foundation for you not believing it, think again.I call BS on this screen platinum haven't worked towards the goal of self publishing their own games for the past 10 years a goal they are very proudly about to achieve to let someone just come in and aquire them
Industry insiders spill failed attempt of Microsoft buying Platinum Games
Oh boy. Unbeknownst to both gamers and the press, last year Microsoft apparently tried to acquire the acclaimed Japanese gaming powerhouse Platinum Games. The scoop comes directly from industry insider Brad Sams. A notoriously well-sourced journalist about all things Microsoft and Xbox.
www.gamezone.com
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Sandwich that PS5 MS, do it !
That's going to be a pretty salty sandwich.
Probably needs nine pieces of ham and two cucumber slices to get really juicy, though.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I won't pretend to know the costings or how they compare to previous gens/nodes except to say I seriously doubt the XSX APU is ~$200 alone when the estimated BOM for entire console is suggested to be ~ $460-$520.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Just going by what Richard Leadbetter said about the huge cost increase of 7nm.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Well see what the price of Lockhart is, but when it comes to consoles at the $300+ range it’s typically in $100 increments. Not $350 or $370 kind of thing.
Journey
Banned
1. It will run cooler and more efficiently
2. Features like instant load times via SSD NVMe will not work on Xbox One X.
3. As it enters mass production, it will save them money, possibly using silicon with failed transistors instead of using redundancy.
Vawn
Banned
Sandwich that PS5 MS, do it !
Xbox can be the bread as long as Sony continues to contain the real meat (games).
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
It also means that XSX is substantially more powerful than PS5, because that's the only scenario where two SKUs make sense.
R6Rider
Gold Member
That doesn't mean that at all.
It could be something like this even:
XSX - $600 / 12TF
PS5 - $500 / 10TF
XSS - $300 / 6TF
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
That's what I would call a substantial difference, especially with RDNA2 vs. RDNA1.
Panaphonics
Banned
I call BS on this screen platinum haven't worked towards the goal of self publishing their own games for the past 10 years a goal they are very proudly about to achieve to let someone just come in and aquire them
Negotiations. Doesn’t mean they will get sold or anything. But you can negotiate with anyone.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
But Microsoft might not know that PS5 was also targeting 12TF. They maybe thought Sony was going for 10TF so wanted to sandwich them, but it could still be that you have:
Lockhart < PS5=XSX
R6Rider
Gold Member
I don't think most people would consider that substantial. Even if the PS5 and XSX were exactly the same specs, the Series S for 300 would still fit in fine. It has no bearing on on powerful the PS5 is.
Last edited:
I heard that the series s Lockhart will be diskless so Microsoft is now going to hide playin physical copy of disc in the most expensive next gen console they produce let that sink in
for the guy that only play physical copies of games Microsoft you hooked for at least 500 bucks
This hobby is getting very expensive my friend
for the guy that only play physical copies of games Microsoft you hooked for at least 500 bucks
This hobby is getting very expensive my friend
R6Rider
Gold Member
Compared too many other forms of entertainment and hobbies, it's really not. Especially when you break the cost of a system down across 7 or 8 years.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Yeah I do remember the articles and graphs but at the end of the day both Microsoft and Sony need their chips to come in at a certain price and I think AMD/TSMC will find a way given the numbers of chips we're talking about here.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I am looking at from a business standpoint, you buffoon. Supporting a platform for the next two years (which, btw, was a statement made at E3 2019), doesn't mean they are going to produce the XBO or X at the same numbers as they currently do. They meant that statement in terms of software support primarily, the likes of which we are still not 100% privy to since additional details have yet to be provided.
If you really think they are going to keep XBO and X production levels where they are currently, instead of scaling down their production to make way in manufacturing budget for XSX and Lockhart (especially when they have already price-reduced the X to $299), then quite frankly you're the one who isn't seeing this from a business perspective. Especially with rumors Lockhart will come in anywhere from $299 - $399, it is seemingly being positioned for the lower-end entry point of their ecosystem.
Sony and MS have always had instances of multiple SKUs being present simultaneously, that's why they reduce production volumes on the older ones to phase them out. This is exactly what MS seems to be doing for XBO S and the X (they stopped producing the original XBO ages ago), and when Sony feels it time they will start shifting down production volumes of PS4 and PS4 Pro. This is what both companies have been doing since 7th gen, so why are you even entertaining the idea that MS would intentionally keep production levels of XBO S and X where they are currently (or even increase them) by the time XSX and Lockhart are ready to go into mass production?
The majority of XBO S and X units for their LTDs have already been produced; they will phase out remaining units and reduce production quantities of the products as needed. And historically speaking, MS has been quicker to this than Sony, but they both have their reasons for their own timescales of such. The reason they would not do as you suggest, is because production of the older chips on the older process nodes will eventually get more and more expensive as the fabs move to smaller processes and make way for yet even newer processes by ridding of the older ones. And by that point the cost for production will outweigh the profit coming in from each system sold. Happens all the time.
So yeah, take a moment and think on that before accusing me of being something I'm not just because I had good reason to disagree with your original post.
Panaphonics
Banned
Where and when did you hear this? This is false
Put it on the rumor mill but that was something that was going around Im no Insider but even dealer and Colt might have references I think
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
You guys really think Microsoft is going to come in at $600 for a god damn console? LOL! Its wont go above $499.99 and still be more powerful. Not sure if people are seeing it, but there's a trend going on with all these pro consumer moves by Microsoft. They aren't going to just flush all that down the toilet by raising the price of their new hardware. Series X will be $499 at the most. Lockhart will probably be around $300 as stated with some kind of Gamepass deal.
I mean, seriously. The $600 price tag has historically failed. If anything they'd go lower and take the hit as a $399 box and a $299 box would sell a shit ton of consoles. No way they go higher. No way.