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[Bam Bam Baklava]

Can people stop fake trolling so we can laugh at the people who actually believe the ridiculous crap they write?

 

[Conduit]

No one 'deserves' to win a month, they're either creating a desireable product or they're not.

Frankly, given how big a loss they're having to take and how much extra value they're needing to bundle in to even have a shot at outselling the competition, in the month where they have their biggest games of the year releasing alongside tie in marketing for 2 of the years biggest third party titles, and that it's still too close to call, I'd say in balance a better argument can be made for them not deserving to.

They made a product the consumer at large has rejected and they're buying their way into a sales lead at the expense of making a profit, and that's both unsustainable and a way of manipulating the market that is a prime example of how broken and underhanded big business and unregulated capitalism can be.

But again, who ever sells the most is simply whoever offers their goods to the consumer at better value. Who 'deserves' it, is neither here nor there.

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

Both posts are well said!

 

[mourad louali]

Even better post. Sadly those that want Xbox to win no matter what or believe "anything goes" for businesses to compete won't care to accept these facts.

Who cares who wins november sales? Is it really so important to you guys that you need to create/defend a moral/business defeat for MS?

The only winners are those who recently bought the Xbox One. Because they got it cheaper than expected and there are great exclusive games to play. Is that something to be mad about ?

 

[vesvci]

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

Nice.

I was one of the ones that took the bait, and ended up purchasing an SO Bundle. I don't regret it because video games is a hobby, and there's some worthy exclusives.

That's being said, the more I use the XBO, the more I agree with the bolded part.

 

[ironcreed]

I am going to keep it it simple. I own both systems, but Xbox One has easily been the better system in terms of exclusives, the OS, update support and the controller. But I fully expect the PS4 to start flexing it's muscles in 2015. It looks much better going forward.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

They really deserve to win at least a month.

Question, I bought an Xbone bundle with digital codes for AC Unity, Black Flag, Dance Central and Advanced Warfare. Does eBay allow me to sell digital codes? I figure I could make at least 120 off them.

Yes. You are supposed to physically mail them, but they don't really enforce that rule.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Sony's issue is providing the other territories outside of NA with stock during the holiday period as well.

MS only has to focus on NA and the UK and stuff those channels. Sony covers a bigger market. Hopefully they've manufactured enough Ps4 consoles. They can't afford any shortages, especially not in NA and the Uk.

That really shouldn't be an issue at all with basically a full year to prepare from last year's shortages.

 

[FeD.nL]

I am going to keep it it simple. I own both systems, but Xbox One has easily been the better system in terms of exclusives, the OS, update support and the controller. But I fully expect the PS4 to start flexing it's muscles in 2015. It looks much better going forward.

Exactly how I feel. Bought my Xbox One 2 months ago when my PS4 had to be sent to maintenance for the second time. I really enjoy the system, suspend/resume which I know is not a new feature does make the system feel more next gen to me.

Still I cannot wait for the exclusives Sony has lined-up next year. It's honestly just a great time to be a gamer with the competition ramping up the way it does.

 

[biglittleps]

I am going to keep it it simple. I own both systems, but Xbox One has easily been the better system in terms of exclusives, the OS, update support and the controller. But I fully expect the PS4 to start flexing it's muscles in 2015. It looks much better going forward.

XB1 may have advantages of better in OS updates, exclusives and controller which are subjective, but PS4 has the advantages of better hardware, multi platforms, affordable price, many exclusives planned for next year like they supported with PS3 (few good exclusives are released) and excellent indie support which tries to cater every kind of gamer compared to XB1. This is why PS4 winning because the advantages it has is useful for most of them unlike XB1 better exclusives and OS updates which are not and only applies to those who like XB1 exclusives and Multimedia features.

 

[EGM1966]

Who cares who wins november sales? Is it really so important to you guys that you need to create/defend a moral/business defeat for MS?

The only winners are those who recently bought the Xbox One. Because they got it cheaper than expected and there are great exclusive games to play. Is that something to be mad about ?

I don't care who wins, unless you're having reading comprehension issues. It's also good short term for those individual buyers doesn't mean longer term it's worse for the industry.

I agree with the posts I quoted: it's not ideal for the weaker product to buy success for the broader market.

To be honest I'm failing to see the point you're making.

 

[Jabba]

Stilton Disco, great understanding of the situation of the markets and how they should work.

 

[JaggedSac]

not sure if this was posted yet. interesting take.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...-tripled-but-is-that-less-than-meets-the-eye/

Dumb. Last two weeks in November matter more than first two.

 

[mejin]

Who cares who wins november sales? Is it really so important to you guys that you need to create/defend a moral/business defeat for MS?

The only winners are those who recently bought the Xbox One. Because they got it cheaper than expected and there are great exclusive games to play. Is that something to be mad about ?

Microsoft cares, xbox fans care.

We have to read posts like "sony doesn't deserve this, ps4 doesn't deserve to sell better"; "ps4 has no games", "xbox one is better cause it has monthly updates", "all my friends have xbox", " you are lying, you have no fun on PS4" or like your post "why ps4 users are mad about this and that" all year along...it's damn sad.

You guys have all the right to speak freely, just be humble to listen too.

 

[maxiell]

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money...

Do you have a source for the assertion they are selling at a loss? $50 off retail doesn't seem like such a massive price cut to me.

 

[EGM1966]

Do you have a source for the assertion they are selling at a loss? $50 off retail doesn't seem like such a massive price cut to me.

He's assuming - and is probably right - that MS has been paying for all the free games as well.

The upswing in sales isn't for base Xbox is Xbox with free games therefore the total cost of those sales is the console plus the cost of the games.

I also believe this means those consoles are effectively being sold at a loss of some kind.

We'll never know unless some insider confirms it though: no way MS will.

 

[JaggedSac]

Nice.

I was one of the ones that took the bait, and ended up purchasing an SO Bundle. I don't regret it because video games is a hobby, and there's some worthy exclusives.

That's being said, the more I use the XBO, the more I agree with the bolded part.

Man, you let the underhanded MS pull the wool over your eyes and got you to buy a product you didn't even desire? Hell, that's good. That's damn good.

He's assuming - and is probably right - that MS has been paying for all the free games as well.

The upswing in sales isn't for base Xbox is Xbox with free games therefore the total cost of those sales is the console plus the cost of the games.

I also believe this means those consoles are effectively being sold at a loss of some kind.

We'll never know unless some insider confirms it though: no way MS will.

We will see in their earnings release for that quarter. Both their hardware and software divisions with Xbox stuff have been profitable for a while now I believe.

 

[1970 Chevelle SS]

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

Listen to this man. It's like a fresh breath of sanity in an insane thread.

 

[Fdkn]

In cases like this is when this forum needs a thumb ups system

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

They made a better console with better games.

 

[Guymelef]

They made a better console with better games.

No.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

No.

Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.

 

[Guymelef]

Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.

Better than what?
Do you really think XBO is selling better than PS4 worldwide?
Lol.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the idea that increasing install base is only vanity.

Install directly impacts revenue for both companies, as they barely ever make profit on the hardware itself for years. Install base increases potential audience for all titles, and titles/games are of course where they make their money, through licensing.

EDIT: Actually it's not the only thing I take issue with, for the record.

 

[boredandlazy]

Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.

I guess Americans must be more intelligent than the rest of the world, because chances are it's the only place that it's currently selling more.

 

[Trust me. I'm a PhD]

They made a better console with better games.

If that was the case they would not need to drop the price and add in a free game in order to drive interest. And opinions and all that, but since we are talking sales only the market's opinion matters and they said Xbox1 is not worth the price of a PS4.

 

[EGM1966]

We will see in their earnings release for that quarter. Both their hardware and software divisions with Xbox stuff have been profitable for a while now I believe.

Maybe. I mean it would be good to see but as free games will be a marketing deal probably set up with MS paying invoice monthly or whatever I'm not sure they have to record that specific to Xbox division. They may be able to shunt the money spent on deals to a non-Xbox cost centre.

Not saying they will but I seem to remember both Sony and MS have done similar accounting shuffles in the past.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.

It's not better on a technical level. Xbox Live and Games are entirely opinion. We have no reference to how it's selling better, just that it is.

So, the only factual information we have, console specs, places the PS4 ahead. Thus, it's selling better, and has sold better, since it launched.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

It's not better on a technical level. Xbox Live and Games are entirely opinion. We have no reference to how it's selling better, just that it is.

So, the only factual information we have, console specs, places the PS4 ahead. That's why it's selling better, and has sold better, since it launched.

Yes its an opinion, I have both and it's my opinion. The whole post I replied to was one big opinion piece I completely disagreed with.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Yes, it's way better. So is Xbox live and so are the games. That's why its selling better now.

don't forget friends and monthly updates!

 

[jimbobsmells]

*snip*

no need to quote you again, other than to say excellent post. Well done.

 

[yurinka]

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Yes its an opinion, I have both and it's my opinion. The whole post I replied to was one big opinion piece I completely disagreed with.

Except, "They made a better console" is a complete fallacy.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Except, "They made a better console" is a complete fallacy.

How is it a fallacy? It's not.

His opinion "They made a better console", is a response to "Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product.".

 

[Kayant]

don't forget friends and monthly updates!

Missing Fun

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Yes its an opinion, I have both and it's my opinion. The whole post I replied to was one big opinion piece I completely disagreed with.

Yes, it's way better [than PS4]

Opinion.

So is Xbox live [better than PSN]

Opinion.

the games [are better than PS4's]

Opinion.

That's why its selling better now.

Not an opinion.

Selling better than what? Vita? PS4? Cupcakes? Then you must have some numbers.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Except, "They made a better console" is a complete fallacy.

A fallacy? No it's an opinion, its better. It looks nicer, has a better OS, quieter, better controller, better games, better apps, better online.

 

[Guymelef]

How is it a fallacy? It's not.

His opinion "They made a better console", is a response to "Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product.".

Inferior, expensive and less desirable are objective terms here, we have specs, we have launch price and we have sales.

 

[Birgitte2004]

We will see in their earnings release for that quarter. Both their hardware and software divisions with Xbox stuff have been profitable for a while now I believe.

The divisions are profitable, that doesn't mean the Xbox is, since the Xbox stuff is not the only thing in those divisions.

 

[Days like these...]

I don't have either of these consoles yet but am leaning towards xbone because all I've seen for the ps4 that interests me is bloodborne. Having said that why are people so outraged/concerned at Microsoft supposedly selling the xbone at a loss? Wasn't the ps3 sold at loss isn't that one of the reasons last gen wiped out all the profits Sony had made from ps2 and ps1?

As for the disco guy and his wall of text rant sorry I mean analysis don't remember him being 'concerned' about ps3 losses being unsustainable

 

[JaggedSac]

The divisions are profitable, that doesn't mean the Xbox is, since the Xbox stuff is not the only thing in those divisions.

True, the Surface is also in "Computing and Gaming Hardware"...

 

[Riky]

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

Yes Microsoft offering a really good deal to consumers this Christmas with a raft of exclusive top quality games is a real hardship. Also Microsoft stock is on a high at the moment, do people really think that shareholders (who have little say in reality) really care about the tiny Xbox division in such a situation? No they care about the value of the company as a whole.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

How is it a fallacy? It's not.

His opinion "They made a better console", is a response to "Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product.".

The specs, price and sales speak for themselves, but I am particularly focused on "they made a better console", which isn't true. We know what specs the consoles have, we know which console is running multiplatform games to a higher quality. That's no open for interpretation or opinion.

 

[tuna_love]

The specs, price and sales speak for themselves, but I am particularly focused on "they made a better console", which isn't true. We know what specs the consoles have, we know which console is running multiplatform games to a higher quality. That's no open for interpretation or opinion.

They are allowed to think a console is better not based on specs I think.

 

[GHG]

Unsustainable because even if they're making enough profit elsewhere to cover it as a company, making a constant loss going forward is going to piss off a lot of the MS shareholders, especially those who are already very vocal about wanting the Xbox division sold off. It gets to a point where the entire division just ends up being a vanity project without a clear end goal beyond selling more than Sony, and that's not exactly a worthwhile exorcise.

I say underhanded and market manipulation because they're simply throwing money at people rather than offering a more desireable product in the first place.

They're selling the hardware they make at a loss and they're giving away free games and free Live subscriptions just in the hopes of selling more than a rival product that up until now has been a far more desirable one to the consumer. And that's not even taking into account the discounted rate they must have offered retailers for the huge volume of stock they're currently flooding the market with, that must be translating to an even greater loss than normal. If they didn't have the rest of MS's big pockets to bail them out it would be financial suicide to conduct business like this, its completely contrary to the way consumerist capitalism is meant to work, and it has no real benefits long term beyond saving face for a month or 2 and maybe, maybe getting enough customers to long term make up the losses in future purchases, but given just how big a loss they must be incurring, and the fact that they seem to be targeting bargain hunters and non-early adopters, I'd be very surprised if that panned out.

Sure, it benefits anyone getting an XO this Christmas because you save a huge amount of money, but in the end MS are just spending an absurd amount of money on the hope of getting some good publicity, and even that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product. They ruined their public image with blatant anticonsumer behaviour and failed to either right all those wrongs, or adequately express to the public that they'd done so with the policy changes they have made. They've been paying for those mistakes all year with lower than desired sales, and a strong competitor that's performing better. Now they're just buying their way to better sales.

Sums it up perfectly.

Even as an owner if an xbone I 100% agree with this. Great post.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

The specs, price and sales speak for themselves, but I am particularly focused on "they made a better console", which isn't true. We know what specs the consoles have, we know which console is running multiplatform games to a higher quality. That's no open for interpretation or opinion.

I said why I think it's a better console. You think PS4 is better cause its slightly faster I think other things are far more important.

 

[Guymelef]

They are allowed to think a console is better not based on specs I think.

But you can't use the "that's why is selling better now" to help your "is better console"argument when XBO isn't selling better than PS4.

 

[tuna_love]

But you can't use the "that's why is selling better now" to help your "is better console"argument when XBO isn't selling better than PS4.

Ok

 

[EGM1966]

How is it a fallacy? It's not.

His opinion "They made a better console", is a response to "Ultimately, they made an inferior, expensive, and ultimately less desirable product.".

It all depends on whether a common criteria is in play. Technically this thread is about sales and by that metric his opinion doesn't matter

Global sales indicate majority view PS4 as the "better" console and the Xbox as the "inferior" console. Obviously the minority - using sales as a criteria - who prefer Xbox see it the other way around but that doesn't change their's is the minority vote.

The issue - I'm sure I've been guilty of it myself - is people mix their opinions with criteria based statements in threads that are about that criteria. Always results in argument and dissent.

Next to sales threads technical threads are the next worse offender where you have someone discussion objective criteria like resoltion and someone saying "I just prefer the look of that game".

Not trying to be "no fun allowed" but it would be better if criteria based threads had less pure opinions tossed isn't them.

On the other hand they probably be a lot less entertaining so maybe everyone should ignore that idea.

 

[soulassssns]

The specs, price and sales speak for themselves, but I am particularly focused on "they made a better console", which isn't true. We know what specs the consoles have, we know which console is running multiplatform games to a higher quality. That's no open for interpretation or opinion.

Not everybody cares about specs though. If they truly did they wouldn't be playing on consoles. Quite a few gamers only care what their friends are playing on.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

A fallacy? No it's an opinion, its better. It looks nicer, has a better OS, quieter, better controller, better games, better apps, better online.

I agree with this, as an upgrade to the 360. I think Microsoft made a better console for themselves. As in better than all, even though it's a opinion, I think that keeping it neutral in all respects is easier. The Xbox is the better console to you, basically. Nothing wrong with that... It's just not better than anything else.