Karak
Member
Lol.
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Rise of the Tomb Raider - Review Thread
- Thread starter bananafactory
- Start date
Lol.
I honestly can't tell if you want Tomb Raider to be more or less like Uncharted. Personally, I find Uncharted a chore to play at times. The design, story and set pieces are all top notch but the mechanics are clunky as hell. Tomb Raider is kinda the opposite in that I really enjoy playing the game but the story and set pieces are kinda bleh.
Playing through the UC collection and the Reboot recently and somehow UC3 had the worst aiming and weapon feedback of the bunch. Headshots didn't seem to connect nearly as much as they did in the first 2 games and the enemies barely react to getting shot. Something just felt off. The pacing was also terrible in the back half of the game if nothing but constant waves of enemies and shootouts. I don't know what happened with that game but it was far less enjoyable than than UC, UC2 and the Reboot for me as a result.
I'm saying that I wish it were different only such that it had a more unique identity.
Remember, it was initially in response to a dismissal that CD's derivation of ND harmed the perception of its efforts. I think that's fair to say, and want a bit more uniqueness in the game.
Game(play) director from UC2 Bruce Straley went on to make TLOU so new guy directing gameplay stuff for UC3.
I don't even understand who but the more dedicated gamers will sit down and listen to audio logs. For casual gamers they would want the story to be presented in cutscenes alongside the gameplay. They're putting very niche sensibilities in a mainstream game which is really weird.
I didn't play the Tomb Raider reboot until this past August, and then played the Nathan Drake collection (all three games from beginning to end) right when it released a couple months later. So seeing their differences and similarities couldn't have been easier.
They're similar in some ways, but when playing them they just feel completely different. The Uncharted series is entirely linear without much to explore while Tomb Raider has a ton of open hubs you can revisit whenever you want. It's almost like comparing Halo to Call of Duty in terms of how different they are.
The Uncharted series has much better storytelling overall, and the setpieces are insanely impressive considering the platform they released on (and how well they hold up in their remastered versions), but Tomb Raider excels in most other ways which matter to me personally.
Especially the gunplay. While the combat is hilariously out of place and there's too much of it in both series, it was actually a ton of fun in Tomb Raider while it was a horrible chore of unbalanced bullshit encounters in the Uncharted series. The upgrade systems improved things further, but Tomb Raider at least got the basic mechanics right.
I also like the platforming in Tomb Raider a lot more, since it was more interactive with things like scaling rock walls, and using the bow to create new traversal opportunities.
Yeah, that's fair. It seems like this new game is at least tying to get back to more of the Tomb Raidery stuff with the expanded tombs, etc.
Yeah I agree about Uncharted. UC and UC2 weren't that bad but 3 was a nightmare in some sections in my opinion and it was made all the worse by the somehow worse gun mechanics compared to the first 2. Tomb Raider was fun on Hard. UC and UC2 were fun on easy for me. UC3 just wasn't fun in the second half with its nonstop combat.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Great reviews. I should finish the first game and maybe pick it up on 360.
I wake up in cold sweats in the middle of the night, haunted by memories of Uncharted 3's combat.
I really liked the combat in Uncharted 2 though. And I played U3 first.
I wake up in cold sweats in the middle of the night, haunted by memories of Uncharted 3's combat.
I really liked the combat in Uncharted 2 though. And I played U3 first.
I like the fact that you picked up on how much better combat is in TLOU. Should make you more excited about UC4?
potatohead
Member
Here's the thing about the TR and Uncharted comparisons.....
Uncharted did borrow heavily from the TR series. This is coming from someone who loves both the classic TR games and the current Uncharted games. There is a LOT in common with the settings and story lines and broader platforming concepts between the first 3 Uncharted games and the TR trilogy on PS2/PS3 generations. Here's some stuff they have in common:
Let's be honest: Crystal Dynamics/Square-Enix/what-was-Eidos.... you can't compete with Naughty Dog here. It's not that you can't try or we should tell them not to try..... but still.... why? They clearly do not have the scope or commitment or staff or maybe just resources to make nearly as compelling a game using the same formula as ND is using. So why the hell do they have to make a cookie-cutter feeling game trying to appeal to that?
Why try to imitate Uncharted so closely? Uncharted did not just imitate TR is my point, so TR should not just simply imitate Uncharted. What Uncharted did was take elements of TR, many, many elements of TR, and re-appropriate them for a new experience. And that experience was a NEW experience that had a completely different flavour and focus that was on cinematic flair, grounded "hollywood" realism, and excellent characterization.
And yea, I'm one of those people who just does not like the nu-TR and I deeply, DEEPLY miss the old TR games style. Yea sure, it's not as "blockbuster" but seriously fuck that blockbuster nonsense, it's not for every game or series. We lost a whole line in a series of games that was of such exquisite and unique design and even today the classic TR and TR 6th/7th gen trilogy has not even had a peer to even come close to it. The sense of adventure those 6th/7th gen TR games offer the player are what I miss most. Still have all 3 games of that trilogy installed on my PC for a go anytime. They are just fucking amazing games and it is a shame that we will never have anything trying to do the same as those for years if not decades.
Please, people, go back and play TR Trilogy from 6th/7th generations.... buy them on PC and enjoy them all in 1080p60 (turn off post-processing though, it looks like shit at that resolution).
I really beg you guys, go play those games. They are FANTASTIC and are experiences like you will get from no other games in this generation or any other. They have such a unique style and flavour of gameplay that is such a perfect blend of classic TR and modernizing their systems (no tank controls for example)..... and they are great and imaginative games in their own right.
Uncharted did borrow heavily from the TR series. This is coming from someone who loves both the classic TR games and the current Uncharted games. There is a LOT in common with the settings and story lines and broader platforming concepts between the first 3 Uncharted games and the TR trilogy on PS2/PS3 generations. Here's some stuff they have in common:
So yea, there are MANY things Uncharted borrowed from TR, very, very, very many things. And it is for the better of the series. The difference between Uncharted and those TR games though was maybe just 3 things.... but they were very important 3 things.
After Uncharted..... the new TR formula became exactly like the Uncharted one. Only that it just doesn't do it as well.
Let's be honest: Crystal Dynamics/Square-Enix/what-was-Eidos.... you can't compete with Naughty Dog here. It's not that you can't try or we should tell them not to try..... but still.... why? They clearly do not have the scope or commitment or staff or maybe just resources to make nearly as compelling a game using the same formula as ND is using. So why the hell do they have to make a cookie-cutter feeling game trying to appeal to that?
Why try to imitate Uncharted so closely? Uncharted did not just imitate TR is my point, so TR should not just simply imitate Uncharted. What Uncharted did was take elements of TR, many, many elements of TR, and re-appropriate them for a new experience. And that experience was a NEW experience that had a completely different flavour and focus that was on cinematic flair, grounded "hollywood" realism, and excellent characterization.
And yea, I'm one of those people who just does not like the nu-TR and I deeply, DEEPLY miss the old TR games style. Yea sure, it's not as "blockbuster" but seriously fuck that blockbuster nonsense, it's not for every game or series. We lost a whole line in a series of games that was of such exquisite and unique design and even today the classic TR and TR 6th/7th gen trilogy has not even had a peer to even come close to it. The sense of adventure those 6th/7th gen TR games offer the player are what I miss most. Still have all 3 games of that trilogy installed on my PC for a go anytime. They are just fucking amazing games and it is a shame that we will never have anything trying to do the same as those for years if not decades.
Please, people, go back and play TR Trilogy from 6th/7th generations.... buy them on PC and enjoy them all in 1080p60 (turn off post-processing though, it looks like shit at that resolution).
I really beg you guys, go play those games. They are FANTASTIC and are experiences like you will get from no other games in this generation or any other. They have such a unique style and flavour of gameplay that is such a perfect blend of classic TR and modernizing their systems (no tank controls for example)..... and they are great and imaginative games in their own right.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
This is just factually incorrect unless you completely arbitrarily define "modern" as the precise moment Uncharted did it. Did you even play the Tomb Raider series until the reboot?
First off, its nice seeing that RotTR fixed issues from the 2013 reboot (more exploration, a slightly better story, ect) and I hope people get it if they own an X1/360 this fall 
.
Going to the topic of Uncharted vs. Reboot Tomb Raider....both are good/great but each does things differently and have a focus on achieving different things.
Uncharted tries to be a playable Indiana Jones film while Tomb Raider is trying to be a 'serious' story that has Lara exploring the world around her. The issue with the latter is....its gameplay style (Uncharted set-pieces mixed with third person combat and platforming elements) kinda clashes with it a bit too much, and considering the Reboot's story was so horrible, its hard to be invested in the 2013 Reboot.
But Uncharted has issues too; the game feels 'stiff' with its aiming and combat, but thanks to the Last of Us, Naughty Dog learned a few things on how to expand on its combat and encounter elements; Uncharted 4 will be a great game alone thanks to fixing the combat systems that were lacking in UC 2 and 3.
Tomb Raider is a bit ironic, as its core gameplay elements are very strong. The combat mechanics are fantastic, controlling Lara's running and jumping feels tight, and the focus on exploration (even if the original 2013 Reboot preferred you shooting everything) helped give the game some verity. However, the story, an element that is the glue in an Uncharted-styled game, is completely lacking. Thus, its hard to be invested in the game world when you have a story either very distracting from what you are doing in-game (never questioned why Drake killed millions of guys; the tone in UC is competely campy and classic Hollywood) or the story itself being horrendously weak (which was the case of TR 2013; really hopeful that is greatly fixed in RotTR).
And it looks like RotTR fixes that issue with the Tombs being expanded, the exploration having more meaningful rewards and the combat/set-pieces, while still being a focus, appear to be more in line with the story the game is trying to tell.
Looking forward to both UC4 and this (will likely get the PS4 or 360 version down the line; the former I plan on getting anyway while the latter can be had for very cheap + the port seems to run quite well on 360).
.Going to the topic of Uncharted vs. Reboot Tomb Raider....both are good/great but each does things differently and have a focus on achieving different things.
Uncharted tries to be a playable Indiana Jones film while Tomb Raider is trying to be a 'serious' story that has Lara exploring the world around her. The issue with the latter is....its gameplay style (Uncharted set-pieces mixed with third person combat and platforming elements) kinda clashes with it a bit too much, and considering the Reboot's story was so horrible, its hard to be invested in the 2013 Reboot.
But Uncharted has issues too; the game feels 'stiff' with its aiming and combat, but thanks to the Last of Us, Naughty Dog learned a few things on how to expand on its combat and encounter elements; Uncharted 4 will be a great game alone thanks to fixing the combat systems that were lacking in UC 2 and 3
.Tomb Raider is a bit ironic, as its core gameplay elements are very strong. The combat mechanics are fantastic, controlling Lara's running and jumping feels tight, and the focus on exploration (even if the original 2013 Reboot preferred you shooting everything) helped give the game some verity. However, the story, an element that is the glue in an Uncharted-styled game, is completely lacking. Thus, its hard to be invested in the game world when you have a story either very distracting from what you are doing in-game (never questioned why Drake killed millions of guys; the tone in UC is competely campy and classic Hollywood) or the story itself being horrendously weak (which was the case of TR 2013; really hopeful that is greatly fixed in RotTR).
And it looks like RotTR fixes that issue with the Tombs being expanded, the exploration having more meaningful rewards and the combat/set-pieces, while still being a focus, appear to be more in line with the story the game is trying to tell.
Looking forward to both UC4 and this (will likely get the PS4 or 360 version down the line; the former I plan on getting anyway while the latter can be had for very cheap + the port seems to run quite well on 360)
.Wowfunhappy
Member
I don't want to get into an Uncharted vs Tomb Raider discussion again, but I certainly don't think that can write off Crystal Dynamics's effort so simply. I enjoyed TR2013 much, much more than Uncharted 2, because there was more of a focus on platforming over shooting, and because the introduction of supernatural elements into the story was more gradual and thus less ridiculous. I also really liked the inclusion of tombs, although I realize that they were a downgrade compared to the classic series (and I wish that they weren't optional).
I did.
I can also understand words beyond their literal meaning.
You knew what I was referring to.
Larson Conway
Member
Glad to see the game getting raves.
Really nice music video celebrating the release, too --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hu8-y6fKg0
Really nice music video celebrating the release, too --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hu8-y6fKg0
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
No I don't, unless we also apparently need to be addressing things done in Mario, Sonic, Klonoa, and others. If that is the case, I think I hear a true Scotsman coming around the corner to tell me how innovative Uncharted was and how I am mistaken to think it was a really polished aggregate of gameplay concepts that existed prior but hadn't been fused together too well before.
Iced Arcade
Member
Game is getting some decent reviews that's for sure
Flintty
Member
What the hell is this? You come across so butt-hurt. If the new TR game isn't for you, that's fine but having a go at the devs about it & questioning their commitment is a bit low and kind of makes you sound like a dick.
KingJ2002
Member
CD delivers again!
scored a lot higher than I expected to be honest. tomb raider has always been an 7.5 or 8 out of 10 type of series... for it to get so many 9's shows they really stepped their game up... i don't have an xbox one but i'm looking forward to checking it out next year when it releases for ps4.
in the mean time.. i'll just lurk threads for impressions.
scored a lot higher than I expected to be honest. tomb raider has always been an 7.5 or 8 out of 10 type of series... for it to get so many 9's shows they really stepped their game up... i don't have an xbox one but i'm looking forward to checking it out next year when it releases for ps4.
in the mean time.. i'll just lurk threads for impressions.
Kind of.. ? There are recurring characters if that's what you mean.
with their 90+ streak, kinda sad that a <90 on meta now constitutes as fucking up "big time"
Do you have a PS4? You get Uncharted 4 next year - no reason to be bummed.
And hey, each to their own, but there are plenty of reasons to have an XB1.
Sniffynose
Member
Zomg this game is good! I am so happy I said screw it and got it on xbox one instead of waiting it out for the PS4 version. Between this and Fallout I won't even have time to sleep >.<
Manny Calavera
Member
I think I'll do the same actually and get the PS4 version when it's finally released.
nelsonroyale
Member
From what I have seen, I prefer the setting in this game compared to the previous one, and the scenarios do seem a bit more spectacular, and the direction more sophisticated.
I thought Tomb Raider 2013 was pretty average across the board. I particularly hope they make a less garbled story in this one. I didn't mind Lara as a character but everything else was...well, I have forgotten most of it, but enough to remember it was tripe.
I thought Tomb Raider 2013 was pretty average across the board. I particularly hope they make a less garbled story in this one. I didn't mind Lara as a character but everything else was...well, I have forgotten most of it, but enough to remember it was tripe.
All the things you listed as UC borrowing from TR are things it could easily have borrowed from the films it riffs on.
They're general anyway, not specific things like the style of automated climbing and design of climbing structures that TR literally lifts from the UC series. Also the way the characters animate when walking through tight spaces, etc...
Of course the original TR games influenced modern game design, but the reboot clearly takes direct inspiration from the UC series. Whereas UC might have looked at the original TR and been inspired by the general themes and ideas, they're miles away from each other as gameplay and design experiences overall. The TR reboot on the other hand has taken the exact UC formula, refined it, and made it its own.
Clearly UC had more innovation and originality, but those aren't all the ingredients you need to make a great game. So I'm not saying UC "wins" because of this, but it is true that TR2013 borrows much more directly from UC.
potatohead
Member
You're taking the interpretation of borrowing and imitating the wrong way.
Borrowing and imitating is a necessity in art. Chances are in every medium.... well, yea, it has been done before. There's what.... 4000 games on PS2 alone? 1500 on PS3 maybe? Another 2000 from PS1? That's just on PlayStation consoles. Chances are every idea in Uncharted has been performed in some way or another before in one or many more of those thousands of games.
Everything in Uncharted could be seen as saying it borrowed something from somewhere else. But the series it has by far the most in common with, in style and structure, is Tomb Raider. So that source cannot be discounted.
You cannot take offense by someone saying Uncharted borrowed from TR. TR was a massive cultural touchpoint for all of videogames for over a decade. Uncharted's commonalities with the TR series are not a curse, and they do not detract from what Uncharted is. They are a source of great inspiration for one of the most popular action-game series ever.
People get so reflexive and flatly stupid about this whole thing, about the comparison between TR and Uncharted. If you go back and play the classic TR games you will notice many, many more scenes in Uncharted that are riffed almost straight into the Uncharted universe. And it doesn't make Uncharted any less of an experience.
In fact that increases the relevance of both series, and videogames as a medium, that it says videogames are comparing themselves to each other, trying to build upon what has been done before, and build fresh experiences from that as well.
That's not a bad thing. That's an excellent thing in videogames.
It is an excellent thing that they could take those elements and refresh them into a completely new feeling experience. And on top of that create memorable characters and sequences that people still remember today (even in the classic TR games most of the characters are very forgettable).
What I was saying is that Uncharted borrowed style and structure heavily from classic TR and stuff like Indiana Jones, but adapted it for a different and more cinematic and action-focused experience.
Importantly about Uncharted taking inspiration from classic TR, it did not take everything wholesale.
P.S.
To the ones trying to detract my statements about nu-TR. I'm not butthurt lol. I do not have to like nu-TR and I did not lose the games I love after nu-TR was made.
I simply do not like nu-TR as much. You guys sound more butthurt that I don't like nu-TR as much as you guys do. Guess what? I don't have to like the direction of the nu-TR games. It's more of a dick thing to say I have to like the direction they are going in.
I don't have to, and I don't. I never said you guys can't enjoy nu-TR, that would be a dick thing to say. But all you can respond with is that I'm wrong because I don't like nu-TR. Well, lol to that.
Yes, absolutely! TLOU is insanely good in countless ways but its combat and stealth are thoroughly enjoyable compared to the bullshit drivel that is Uncharted combat. But that's irrelevant to this thread
I really loved Tomb Raider's combat once I got over the whole ludonarrative dissonance thing and am looking forward to getting back into it with RotTR.
UC didn't immiate mechanics and style from TR. Maybe, as I said, the general themes and ideas were inspiration but that can't be certain.
TR reboot clearly is very heavily inspired directly by UC.
There's no "win" or "shame" or anything else in this, but it's clear how close each game is to the other.
Both games are great at different things, and the new TR definitely looks like a must play for fans of this style of game.
Shadowhaxor
Member
WorthPlaying - Rise of the Tomb Raider - 8.8/10
http://worthplaying.com/article/2015/11/10/reviews/97760/
http://worthplaying.com/article/2015/11/10/reviews/97760/
WorthPlaying said:
What the hell are you talking about Scotsmen for?
I'm not going to pretend there's not a large, categorical difference between modern game set pieces and levels of the past, and neither should you.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
It's a reference to the goalposts you're already subtly moving by shifting talk to a general generational difference.
I genuinely do not recall some sudden great leap forward that you seem to be referring to. Yet as curious as I am as to what thing you think Uncharted did that nothing else prior did anything even categorically similar to, it would be running this thread well off the rails. I've already stated my disagreement about the TR franchise level designs, so if you wish to illuminate me on other franchises it's probably best if it continued in PM.
Langdon Alger
Banned
It is what I want. I would prefer no story whatsoever, but if a story has to be there, I would much rather it be put into audio logs that I can simply ignore.
Looks to have settled at 86. I reckon if they can nail the storytelling in the next one they could get into that 90+ club, as that seems to be the biggest point of contention among critics.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/rise-of-the-tomb-raider
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/rise-of-the-tomb-raider
From what i've seen, they've told a straightforward adventure story with supernatural elements, the same as any other tomb raider.
What kind of better story telling is even necessary?
Well I have only played the reboot, but the story was incredibly derivative (like you said that may not the worst thing in the world.) The biggest offenders however were the characters and dialogue, both of which were pretty bad and sometimes cringe inducing backed up by some inconsistent VA.
justsomeguy
Member
Fallout is at 87 - I am sure those critics are just as vocal about that game
Sorry, don't really understand your comment?
Well a majority of those dudes arent even there now, so luckily that complaint is done with
Oh for sure.
I should probably reserve judgement on how they handle characters in Rise, but it is something I picked up on in the reviews I read. They did say it had improved over the first though so that is a good sign.
I've put a couple hours in now and all I have to say is, it feels identical to the first. Thematically and gameplay are near identical.
It's not bad, but it's not good either. I'm pretty disappointed I purchased this
Edit: Got it because I really enjoyed the first, got good reviews and people seemed to be saying it was good also; that's why I posted this in this thread
It's not bad, but it's not good either. I'm pretty disappointed I purchased this
Edit: Got it because I really enjoyed the first, got good reviews and people seemed to be saying it was good also; that's why I posted this in this thread
I've put a couple hours in now and all I have to say is, it feels identical to the first. Thematically and gameplay are near identical.
It's not bad, but it's not good either. I'm pretty disappointed I purchased this
Edit: Got it because I really enjoyed the first, got good reviews and people seemed to be saying it was good also; that's why I posted this in this thread
That was easy to figure out if you watched any gameplay video. Still a shame you are not enjoying your purchase though.
brickarts295
Member
That is an extremely different game with different problems when compared to RotTR XD
I've put a couple hours in now and all I have to say is, it feels identical to the first. Thematically and gameplay are near identical.
It's not bad, but it's not good either. I'm pretty disappointed I purchased this
Edit: Got it because I really enjoyed the first, got good reviews and people seemed to be saying it was good also; that's why I posted this in this thread
Have you reached the bigger hub areas yet or done any of the larger tombs as they are meant to be the big evolutions along with the new options for combat?