Karak
Member
Did she dump you because you kept calling her Laura, when her name was Lara?
Edit: Joke btw, rereading my comment I apologize if that came off as mean spirited.
Lol.
Did she dump you because you kept calling her Laura, when her name was Lara?
Edit: Joke btw, rereading my comment I apologize if that came off as mean spirited.
I honestly can't tell if you want Tomb Raider to be more or less like Uncharted. Personally, I find Uncharted a chore to play at times. The design, story and set pieces are all top notch but the mechanics are clunky as hell. Tomb Raider is kinda the opposite in that I really enjoy playing the game but the story and set pieces are kinda bleh.I'm not saying Uncharted is always superior or anything like that, there's a lot I prefer about Tomb Raider. And I'll cleanly say that Tomb Raider stand leagues above U3.
Overall, I just meant that both steal from the same Indiana Jones pile. Uncharted, however, had the whole modern "hero is falling" video game set piece (now featured in everything from Assassin's Creed to Resident Evil, of all places) before Tomb Raider.
To reclaim a bit of personal identity, I wish Tomb Raider would branch out and give me some incentive scenes in the spirit of classic Indy shenanigans.
I honestly can't tell if you want Tomb Raider to be more or less like Uncharted. Personally, I find Uncharted a chore to play at times. The design, story and set pieces are all top notch but the mechanics are clunky as hell. Tomb Raider is kinda the opposite in that I really enjoy playing the game but the story and set pieces are kinda bleh.
I honestly can't tell if you want Tomb Raider to be more or less like Uncharted. Personally, I find Uncharted a chore to play at times. The design, story and set pieces are all top notch but the mechanics are clunky as hell. Tomb Raider is kinda the opposite in that I really enjoy playing the game but the story and set pieces are kinda bleh.
Playing through the UC collection and the Reboot recently and somehow UC3 had the worst aiming and weapon feedback of the bunch. Headshots didn't seem to connect nearly as much as they did in the first 2 games and the enemies barely react to getting shot. I don't know what happened with that game.
Ugh, developers, please, stop thinking this is what I want.
It isn't what I want.
I honestly can't tell if you want Tomb Raider to be more or less like Uncharted. Personally, I find Uncharted a chore to play at times. The design, story and set pieces are all top notch but the mechanics are clunky as hell. Tomb Raider is kinda the opposite in that I really enjoy playing the game but the story and set pieces are kinda bleh.
Yeah, that's fair. It seems like this new game is at least tying to get back to more of the Tomb Raidery stuff with the expanded tombs, etc.I'm saying that I wish it were different only such that it had a more unique identity.
Remember, it was initially in response to a dismissal that CD's derivation of ND harmed its efforts. I think that's fair to say, and want a bit more uniqueness in the game.
I feel like I'm the prime suspect for this since, my recent gaming history includes jumping immediately from Tomb Raider Definitive Edition to The Nathan Drake Collection. So seeing their differences and similarities couldn't have been easier.
And I really don't think they're similar at all, except for the fact that they're both third-person action-adventure games with a hint of the supernatural. They just feel completely different. The Uncharted series is entirely linear without much to explore while Tomb Raider has a ton of open hubs you can revisit whenever you want.
The Uncharted series has much better storytelling overall, and the setpieces are insanely impressive considering the platform they released on (and how well they hold up in their remastered versions), but Tomb Raider excels in most other ways which matter to me personally.
Especially the gunplay. While the combat is hilariously out of place and there's too much of it in both series, it was actually a ton of fun in Tomb Raider while it was a horrible chore of unbalanced bullshit encounters in the Uncharted series. The upgrade systems improved things further, but Tomb Raider at least got the basic mechanics right.
I also like the platforming in Tomb Raider a lot more, since it was more interactive with things like scaling rock walls, and using the bow to create new traversal opportunities.
Yeah I agree about Uncharted. UC and UC2 weren't that bad but 3 was a nightmare in some sections in my opinion and it was made all the worse by the somehow worse gun mechanics compared to the first 2.
I didn't play the Tomb Raider reboot until this past August, and then played the Nathan Drake collection (all three games from beginning to end) right when it released a couple months later. So seeing their differences and similarities couldn't have been easier.
They're similar in some ways, but when playing them they just feel completely different. The Uncharted series is entirely linear without much to explore while Tomb Raider has a ton of open hubs you can revisit whenever you want. It's almost like comparing Halo to Call of Duty in terms of how different they are.
The Uncharted series has much better storytelling overall, and the setpieces are insanely impressive considering the platform they released on (and how well they hold up in their remastered versions), but Tomb Raider excels in most other ways which matter to me personally.
Especially the gunplay. While the combat is hilariously out of place and there's too much of it in both series, it was actually a ton of fun in Tomb Raider while it was a horrible chore of unbalanced bullshit encounters in the Uncharted series. The upgrade systems improved things further, but Tomb Raider at least got the basic mechanics right.
I also like the platforming in Tomb Raider a lot more, since it was more interactive with things like scaling rock walls, and using the bow to create new traversal opportunities.
So yea, there are MANY things Uncharted borrowed from TR, very, very, very many things. And it is for the better of the series. The difference between Uncharted and those TR games though was maybe just 3 things.... but they were very important 3 things.1) globe-trotting
2) tomb-raiding
3) hero is motivated by personal desire for treasure/raiding tombs (broadly speaking this is the premise of all the TR and Uncharted games)
4) lots of platforming, that was obviously way more rudimentary in Uncharted, save for some scenes (e.g. Uncharted 2's underwater/gears temple, but that still doesn't approach the most complex puzzle platforming in TR classic series especially the PS2/PS3 trilogy)
5) puzzles, even though the puzzles in Uncharted are comparatively extremely rudimentary and more just gateways and pace-changers, whereas in TR classic puzzles are central to the game design
6) the Indiana Jones "flavour" of pulpy action and wise-cracking and sense of adventure
7) just like Indiana Jones the explanation of the power of the treasure always ends up going down the supernatural route
This is an element directly copied from Indiana Jones into TR, and then directly copied from TR into Uncharted
After Uncharted..... the new TR formula became exactly like the Uncharted one. Only that it just doesn't do it as well.1) they focused heavily on an element of "everyday hero" and "grounded hollywood realism"
2) #1 extended into the movie-like/extremely high level production values for acting and animations so that the characters and their actions would have more meaning for the player
(and this is undeniably better achieved in Uncharted compared to any TR games, the interplay between Nate and Sully, or Nate and Elena, is far beyond the characterization in almost all games today)
3) the gameplay was decidely FAR more of a shooter than TR Legend/Anniversary/Underworld, and this is the biggest reason why none of the older TR games were directly comparable to Uncharted, the ones that were releasing at the same time as Uncharted, because their gameplay was actually COMPLETELY different
This is just factually incorrect unless you completely arbitrarily define "modern" as the precise moment Uncharted did it. Did you even play the Tomb Raider series until the reboot?Uncharted, however, had the whole modern "hero is falling" video game set piece (now featured in everything from Assassin's Creed to Resident Evil, of all places) before Tomb Raider.
Let's be honest: Crystal Dynamics/Square-Enix/what-was-Eidos.... you can't compete with Naughty Dog here. It's not that you can't try or we should tell them not to try..... but still.... why? They clearly do not have the scope or commitment or staff or maybe just resources to make nearly as compelling a game using the same formula as ND is using. So why the hell do they have to make a cookie-cutter feeling game trying to appeal to that?
This is just factually incorrect unless you completely arbitrarily define "modern" as the precise moment Uncharted did it. Did you even play the Tomb Raider series until the reboot?
No I don't, unless we also apparently need to be addressing things done in Mario, Sonic, Klonoa, and others. If that is the case, I think I hear a true Scotsman coming around the corner to tell me how innovative Uncharted was and how I am mistaken to think it was a really polished aggregate of gameplay concepts that existed prior but hadn't been fused together too well before.I did.
I can also understand words beyond their literal meaning.
You knew what I was referring to.
Let's be honest: Crystal Dynamics/Square-Enix/what-was-Eidos.... you can't compete with Naughty Dog here. It's not that you can't try or we should tell them not to try..... but still.... why? They clearly do not have the scope or commitment or staff or maybe just resources to make nearly as compelling a game using the same formula as ND is using. So why the hell do they have to make a cookie-cutter feeling game trying to appeal to that?
Why try to imitate Uncharted so closely? Uncharted did not just imitate TR is my point, so TR should not just simply imitate Uncharted. What Uncharted did was take elements of TR, many, many elements of TR, and re-appropriate them for a new experience. And that experience was a NEW experience that had a completely different flavour and focus that was on cinematic flair, grounded "hollywood" realism, and excellent characterization.
And yea, I'm one of those people who just does not like the nu-TR and I deeply, DEEPLY miss the old TR games style. Yea sure, it's not as "blockbuster" but seriously fuck that blockbuster nonsense, it's not for every game or series. We lost a whole line in a series of games that was of such exquisite and unique design and even today the classic TR and TR 6th/7th gen trilogy has not even had a peer to even come close to it. The sense of adventure those 6th/7th gen TR games offer the player are what I miss most. Still have all 3 games of that trilogy installed on my PC for a go anytime. They are just fucking amazing games and it is a shame that we will never have anything trying to do the same as those for years if not decades.
Please, people, go back and play TR Trilogy from 6th/7th generations.... buy them on PC and enjoy them all in 1080p60 (turn off post-processing though, it looks like shit at that resolution).
I really beg you guys, go play those games. They are FANTASTIC and are experiences like you will get from no other games in this generation or any other. They have such a unique style and flavour of gameplay that is such a perfect blend of classic TR and modernizing their systems (no tank controls for example)..... and they are great and imaginative games in their own right.
Very strong reviews.
Do I need to play the 2013 reboot before I play this one? Is this a sequel?
Unless ND fucks it up big time i don't see U4 doing less than 90-92
Really bummed I can't play this.
Wish there was more to have on Xbox
I'll be getting the 360 version. If it's as good as the previous game, I'm going to be in heaven.
Here's the thing about the TR and Uncharted comparisons.....
Uncharted did borrow heavily from the TR series. This is coming from someone who loves both the classic TR games and the current Uncharted games. There is a LOT in common with the settings and story lines and broader platforming concepts between the first 3 Uncharted games and the TR trilogy on PS2/PS3 generations. Here's some stuff they have in common:
So yea, there are MANY things Uncharted borrowed from TR, very, very, very many things. And it is for the better of the series. The difference between Uncharted and those TR games though was maybe just 3 things.... but they were very important 3 things.
After Uncharted..... the new TR formula became exactly like the Uncharted one. Only that it just doesn't do it as well.
Let's be honest: Crystal Dynamics/Square-Enix/what-was-Eidos.... you can't compete with Naughty Dog here. It's not that you can't try or we should tell them not to try..... but still.... why? They clearly do not have the scope or commitment or staff or maybe just resources to make nearly as compelling a game using the same formula as ND is using. So why the hell do they have to make a cookie-cutter feeling game trying to appeal to that?
Why try to imitate Uncharted so closely? Uncharted did not just imitate TR is my point, so TR should not just simply imitate Uncharted. What Uncharted did was take elements of TR, many, many elements of TR, and re-appropriate them for a new experience. And that experience was a NEW experience that had a completely different flavour and focus that was on cinematic flair, grounded "hollywood" realism, and excellent characterization.
And yea, I'm one of those people who just does not like the nu-TR and I deeply, DEEPLY miss the old TR games style. Yea sure, it's not as "blockbuster" but seriously fuck that blockbuster nonsense, it's not for every game or series. We lost a whole line in a series of games that was of such exquisite and unique design and even today the classic TR and TR 6th/7th gen trilogy has not even had a peer to even come close to it. The sense of adventure those 6th/7th gen TR games offer the player are what I miss most. Still have all 3 games of that trilogy installed on my PC for a go anytime. They are just fucking amazing games and it is a shame that we will never have anything trying to do the same as those for years if not decades.
Please, people, go back and play TR Trilogy from 6th/7th generations.... buy them on PC and enjoy them all in 1080p60 (turn off post-processing though, it looks like shit at that resolution).
I really beg you guys, go play those games. They are FANTASTIC and are experiences like you will get from no other games in this generation or any other. They have such a unique style and flavour of gameplay that is such a perfect blend of classic TR and modernizing their systems (no tank controls for example)..... and they are great and imaginative games in their own right.
All the things you listed as UC borrowing from TR are things it could easily have borrowed from the films it riffs on.
They're general anyway, not specific things like the style of automated climbing and design of climbing structures that TR literally lifts from the UC series. Also the way the characters animate when walking through tight spaces, etc...
Of course the original TR games influenced modern game design, but the reboot clearly takes direct inspiration from the UC series. Whereas UC might have looked at the original TR and been inspired by the general themes and ideas, they're miles away from each other as gameplay and design experiences overall. The TR reboot on the other hand has taken the exact UC formula, refined it, and made it its own.
Clearly UC had more innovation and originality, but those aren't all the ingredients you need to make a great game. So I'm not saying UC "wins" because of this, but it is true that TR2013 borrows much more directly from UC.
I like the fact that you picked up on how much better combat is in TLOU. Should make you more excited about UC4?
You're taking the interpretation of borrowing and imitating the wrong way.
Borrowing and imitating is a necessity in art. Chances are in every medium.... well, yea, it has been done before. There's what.... 4000 games on PS2 alone? 1500 on PS3 maybe? Another 2000 from PS1? That's just on PlayStation consoles. Chances are every idea in Uncharted has been performed in some way or another before in one or many more of those thousands of games.
Everything in Uncharted could be seen as saying it borrowed something from somewhere else. But the series it has by far the most in common with, in style and structure, is Tomb Raider. So that source cannot be discounted.
You cannot take offense by someone saying Uncharted borrowed from TR. TR was a massive cultural touchpoint for all of videogames for over a decade. Uncharted's commonalities with the TR series are not a curse, and they do not detract from what Uncharted is. They are a source of great inspiration for one of the most popular action-game series ever.
People get so reflexive and flatly stupid about this whole thing, about the comparison between TR and Uncharted. If you go back and play the classic TR games you will notice many, many more scenes in Uncharted that are riffed almost straight into the Uncharted universe. And it doesn't make Uncharted any less of an experience.
In fact that increases the relevance of both series, and videogames as a medium, that it says videogames are comparing themselves to each other, trying to build upon what has been done before, and build fresh experiences from that as well.
That's not a bad thing. That's an excellent thing in videogames.
It is an excellent thing that they could take those elements and refresh them into a completely new feeling experience. And on top of that create memorable characters and sequences that people still remember today (even in the classic TR games most of the characters are very forgettable).
What I was saying is that Uncharted borrowed style and structure heavily from classic TR and stuff like Indiana Jones, but adapted it for a different and more cinematic and action-focused experience.
Importantly about Uncharted taking inspiration from classic TR, it did not take everything wholesale.
P.S.
To the ones trying to detract my statements about nu-TR. I'm not butthurt lol. I do not have to like nu-TR and I did not lose the games I love after nu-TR was made.
I simply do not like nu-TR as much. You guys sound more butthurt that I don't like nu-TR as much as you guys do. Guess what? I don't have to like the direction of the nu-TR games. It's more of a dick thing to say I have to like the direction they are going in.
I don't have to, and I don't. I never said you guys can't enjoy nu-TR, that would be a dick thing to say. But all you can respond with is that I'm wrong because I don't like nu-TR. Well, lol to that.
WorthPlaying said:As an adventure game, Rise of the Tomb Raider is up there with the best of them. The story feels like something right out of Indiana Jones, and the game nails the atmosphere that you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game. It's easy to see why Microsoft paid for time limited exclusivity with this one; the game really is that good. Even with the problematic melee combat, Rise of the Tomb Raider is a system seller.
No I don't, unless we also apparently need to be addressing things done in Mario, Sonic, Klonoa, and others. If that is the case, I think I hear a true Scotsman coming around the corner to tell me how innovative Uncharted was and how I am mistaken to think it was a really polished aggregate of gameplay concepts that existed prior but hadn't been fused together too well before.
It's a reference to the goalposts you're already subtly moving by shifting talk to a general generational difference.What the hell are you talking about Scotsmen for?
I genuinely do not recall some sudden great leap forward that you seem to be referring to. Yet as curious as I am as to what thing you think Uncharted did that nothing else prior did anything even categorically similar to, it would be running this thread well off the rails. I've already stated my disagreement about the TR franchise level designs, so if you wish to illuminate me on other franchises it's probably best if it continued in PM.I'm not going to pretend there's not a large, categorical difference between modern game set pieces and levels of the past, and neither should you.
Ugh, developers, please, stop thinking this is what I want.
It isn't what I want.
Looks to have settled at 86. I reckon if they can nail the storytelling in the next one they could get into that 90+ club, as that seems to be the biggest point of contention among critics.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/rise-of-the-tomb-raider
From what i've seen, they've told a straightforward adventure story with supernatural elements, the same as any other tomb raider.
What kind of better story telling is even necessary?
Fallout is at 87 - I am sure those critics are just as vocal about that gameLooks to have settled at 86. I reckon if they can nail the storytelling in the next one they could get into that 90+ club, as that seems to be the biggest point of contention among critics.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/rise-of-the-tomb-raider
Fallout is at 87 - I am sure those critics are just as vocal about that game
Well I have only played the reboot, but the story was incredibly derivative (like you said that may not the worst thing in the world.) The biggest offenders however were the characters and dialogue, both of which were pretty bad and sometimes cringe inducing backed up by some inconsistent VA.
Well a majority of those dudes arent even there now, so luckily that complaint is done with
I've put a couple hours in now and all I have to say is, it feels identical to the first. Thematically and gameplay are near identical.
It's not bad, but it's not good either. I'm pretty disappointed I purchased this
Edit: Got it because I really enjoyed the first, got good reviews and people seemed to be saying it was good also; that's why I posted this in this thread
Fallout is at 87 - I am sure those critics are just as vocal about that game
I've put a couple hours in now and all I have to say is, it feels identical to the first. Thematically and gameplay are near identical.
It's not bad, but it's not good either. I'm pretty disappointed I purchased this
Edit: Got it because I really enjoyed the first, got good reviews and people seemed to be saying it was good also; that's why I posted this in this thread