StrongBlackVine
Banned
You are not getting a NATIVE 4k/60fps on high setting with the CPU choices I listed with a 6TF GPU. All the leveraging and optimization in the world won't make that happen. These are essentially PCs.
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Let's Discuss: Now that both PS4 pro and Xbox Scorpio specs are out...
- Thread starter Gunslinger
- Start date
You are not getting a NATIVE 4k/60fps on high setting with the CPU choices I listed with a 6TF GPU. All the leveraging and optimization in the world won't make that happen. These are essentially PCs.
As is the Pro. Unless you own one already? Why do I keep seeing these types of posts? Both are officialy announced, the Pro is just shipping a lot sooner so we know more about it.
family_guy
Member
The Scorpio doesn't have actual specs, just a target performance. To be honest that number could actually go down if Microsoft realizes it's just too expensive given their time table, or they stick with their target but the cost isn't feasible until 2018 and they delay it.
If the Scorpio uses any Cat processor the console is as much of a failure as the XB1. If it uses the Cat there will be no difference with the Pro for the 90% of us that have a 1080p TV. I have no interest in a premium console with a Cat processor. I already have a console that does 1080/30 I don't need another. To wait another year to release a mild upgrade to the Pro would just be dumb. That would also mean they lied about VR support.
Sony goal was to have a console that could support PS4 games in 4K for the 4K TV owners it will also give HDTV owners better looking games as a side effect.
MS goal is to have a console that can support Xbox One games in 4K for the 4K TV owners & also have a base platform for devs to make 4K UWP games for . HDTV owners will also get better graphics as a side effect but these new consoles are about 4K & for MS it's also a good way to get devs to make UWP games.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Yes, you can get 4k native at 60. You're not going to get uncharted 4 at 4k/60, but you can get CoD9 on it. Lol.
Basically i dont expect 4k/60 unless sacrifices are made to the visual look of the game. But that's up to the devs. Just saying it's feasible.
TheGreyHulk
Member
I agree. Hearing about it not having zen really disappointed me. Lost all my hype and dont feel like waiting for it. Just going to get a ps4 pro cuz i have no ps4 and want bloodborne and bf1 on consoles.
supernormal
Member
Albert Penello talked about this in one of the thread discussing the Scorpio. He said you can expect the games to translate in this manner.
Xbox One to Scorpio
1080/30 = 4k/30
1080/60 = 4k/60
This is while keeping the same graphical properties.
wut. It ain't coming out for $350 and the Pro might very well cost that in a year's time.
shungokusatsu
Member
Wait. Is Scorpio another iteration of Xbox One - like PS4 pro is an interation of PS4 - or is it the next generation Xbox?
The former.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Sounds good to me for 4k. Id prefer 1080p with all the bells and whistles though.
BlitzerRadic
Member
How does esram play into all of this? If there's no esram in scorpio, seems like there will be issues there if all games are supposed to be forwards compatible.
IMO scorpio is a new generation if it has no esram.
TetraGenesis
Member
Legitimately laughed out loud.
TheGreyHulk
Member
It's not needed. It has more than enough ram bandwidth to not need the esram.
Xbox one esram is 192 gb/s theoretical memory bandwidth
The esram is only on xbone because it has 8 gb of low bandwidth ddr3 ram which is only 68 gb/s
Scorpio is 320 gb/s. Im not surprised that it matches the 320 gb/s bandwidth of the new gddr5x on nvidia's 1070/80.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Based on power differentials, I'm expecting Scorpio to have fewer games using reconstruction to achieve 4k and slightly more consistant framerates. I'm not expecting huge differences otherwise. The Xbo/Ps4 comparison seems apt given that the theoretical power gap is so similar.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Some work is needed to get the games to run on Scorpio but MS has said it is not emulation.
http://m.windowscentral.com/project-scorpio-will-require-xbox-one-emulation
Outrun
Member
Dude, it ain't going down...
MS declared 6TP at E3. It can only go up, if anything...
So will every game made for Xbox One need to be patched to work or will there just be an OG mode on Scorpio? Seems like a lot of work.
the PS4 was always a little bit lopsided. decent enough GPU for the time twinned with a woefully shit CPU. big wedge of high speed ram with fairly mediocre memory bandwidth.
far as i can tell, the PS4 pro only makes the machine more lopsided.
so it all depends on if microsoft scale up their whole console, or just beef up the GPU. if it's the former than it'll be a much more significant gap than between the ps4 and the boner.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Primethius
Banned
We don't have actual specs for Scorpio yet, just the GPU target. But I expect the power difference to be notable between Scorpio and Pro regardless.
How it'll play out will be interesting to see because Scorpio will still be tied to the XB1 base. I largely expect them to be similar to Sony in what they allow or don't allow (FPS differentials for MP games forbidden for example, so no 60FPS for a Souls game). It'll have tons more native 4K games I think as a result (or closer resolution depending on the game). CPU is also unknown but it's far more likely then Pro to get a boost to 60 FPS in certain games, but again, depends on the title and it's MP component on the base XB1.
Because of this, I'm not sure how pronounced the actual graphical difference between Pro mode and Scorpio mode will be, but I think it'll largely come down to a matter of image quality first and foremost.
As for sales, no one has really put any sort of convincing reason forward why MS with Scorpio will suddenly take make marketshare or become successfull or flip the table on Sony.
Saying power, power, power a bunch of times isn't going to summon a genie and make it happen.
How it'll play out will be interesting to see because Scorpio will still be tied to the XB1 base. I largely expect them to be similar to Sony in what they allow or don't allow (FPS differentials for MP games forbidden for example, so no 60FPS for a Souls game). It'll have tons more native 4K games I think as a result (or closer resolution depending on the game). CPU is also unknown but it's far more likely then Pro to get a boost to 60 FPS in certain games, but again, depends on the title and it's MP component on the base XB1.
Because of this, I'm not sure how pronounced the actual graphical difference between Pro mode and Scorpio mode will be, but I think it'll largely come down to a matter of image quality first and foremost.
As for sales, no one has really put any sort of convincing reason forward why MS with Scorpio will suddenly take make marketshare or become successfull or flip the table on Sony.
Saying power, power, power a bunch of times isn't going to summon a genie and make it happen.
Until we hear if MS has tricks up their sleeves like Sony this seems to be a good quick glance perspective between the current and next generation, http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2016/09/thinking-clearly-about-4k.html
family_guy
Member
lol because they've never backtracked on a statement before.
Sangetsu-II
Member
It isn't, they said they are going beyond generations, it won't have the One Branding it will be call something else and will just be backwards/forward compatible with the XB1 but will still be part of another generation because of its name.
When most of us say it won't be part of this gen it's not because of the specs it's because of the branding IMO.
They won't call it XB1 because then it won't sell to the masses.
You can get PC GPU's which are 6TF for cheaper than the consoles now, it's hardly an ambitious goal at the end of next year.
Outrun
Member
They have laid down the marker. GAF and the media will eviscerate them if they backtrack.
It ain't happening.
HanzSnubSnub
Member
As you've probably seen in the comparison videos, the difference between the PS4 (1.8 Tflops) and the PS4 Pro (4.2 Tflops) is mostly down to extra effects and higher resolution grass/textures. As you increase IQ, the effects become exponentially more demanding, which is where the extra Tflops go. Scorpio (6 Tflops) will be a slight lead over PS4 Pro. Likely it will drop the checkerboard technique for a closer approximation of 4K, if not the real thing. However, I don't expect it to be a leap, considering it still has to run on Xbox One (1.3 Tflops).
disco potato
Member
Since we learned PS4P isn't a 4K BR player.
wesleyshark
Banned
I imagine it's not all that different than what the ps4 to ps4 pro crossover is for games that are already out. Also, all of the games that run via backwards compatibility in Xbone one will also work on scorpio, so that might be rolled up in that particular answer as well.
The PS4pro has an OG power mode so the firmware takes care of it iirc. I would hope Scorpio does the same it was just the comment that it'll take a little bit of work to play XBO games on it, that has me worried.
Do we actually have a quote of her saying this? I feel like the author pulled this clickbait title from nowhere.
Even in the slide on that article, it discusses Zen availability next year and quotes ramp-up of semi customs in the same year.
Edit: Guys, that article is clickbait bs. It's the only article of its kind and it doesn't contact any direct quote. What would AMD be producing in 2018 anyway? There's no new console outside of the Scorpio. If anything, this partially confirms it will be Zen considering they mention ramping up the new semi-custom business under their roadmap, which must refer to Zen.
Poimandres
Member
I kind of get the impression that Microsoft are basically releasing a "next gen" machine with Scorpio. Or as close to a next gen machine as they are going to get anyway.
The real worry for them has to be if Sony comes out with a proper PS5 that really upstages it not too long after. It probably won't happen after 12 months, but within 2 years of Scorpio I could definitely see.
The real worry for them has to be if Sony comes out with a proper PS5 that really upstages it not too long after. It probably won't happen after 12 months, but within 2 years of Scorpio I could definitely see.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Not if the CPU isn't up to par which it won't be without Zen.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I'm going by what Microsoft has said. They have been bullish on the resolution/visuals, but not a peep about framerate. You do the math.
Eh? I'm on about the sudden belief that Zen will not be included in Scorpio due to a poorly constructed click-bait article.
ethomaz
Banned
There is nothing that confirms Zen because Zen won't be released to semi-custom silicon in time to Scorpio.
The next year Zen is only about servers.
Don't forget that PS4 Pro has special sauce in it's bag
ethomaz
Banned
It possible will feature in the next AMD GPU Arch (GCN 1.5?) like happened with PS4 custom features added by Sony.
That means it is possible to features in Scorpio and Vega.
Who are they ramping up their new semi-custom business up for then?
If you go to AMD's semi-custom portfolio, it literally just has MS/Sony. They're not going to invest millions in ramping up semi-custom production for their new architecture with no orders first.
The whole Zen server thing is crap, the only reason that's being mentioned is due to the server specific variations theyre releasing with huge amounts of cores. Hell, they even demo'd the Zen against the consumer i series recently.
ethomaz
Banned
Semi-custom business is open for everybody... they have the technology ready to any potential client use it.
BTW Apple seems to be negotiating a x86 semi-custom solution from AMD for 2017/2018... for what? Most probable iMac.
Edit - About your server comment... I just can say server Zen will be out way before consumer Zen... after these two you will have the new semi-custom... you can believe or not.
disco potato
Member
"Project Scorpio will join the Xbox One family and coexist alongside Xbox One and Xbox One S and all of your Xbox One games and accessories are compatible."
wapplew
Member
I make this with best case scenario for Scorpio for discussion sake.
Yes, it is, but like you seemed to ignore, they only have Sony and Microsoft in their portfolio.
I know, but you don't start ramping up for new semi-custom production on existing architecture. That would be ramping up existing production capability.
Like said, it's almost like people are hoping it's not Zen. This if anything confirms it will be Zen and the new iMac's will be using similar APU's to what the Scorpio will be.
To your edit, they literally say in their 12 month road-map that they are ramping up production of new semi-custom APU's. 12 months from now is September 2017, which would like up perfectly for the mass production of the Scorpio. Stop ignoring what AMD are actually saying here.