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[Nachtmaer]

Your going to be eating that since these kind of leaks are what we had for the different RX 400 cards. And they were true.

The leaked test's we've seen that were floating around are probably true since they are having this event. When was the last time AMD threw an event with someone like geoff KEIGHLEY to promote gaming CPU'S?

One benchmark doesn't mean anything. We don't even know at what clocks Zen will comfortably run at before burning up. Considering how Skylake/Kaby Lake can easily do >4GHz without needing to run at insane voltages and how AMD has repeatedly stated there'll be an IPC increase of about 40% (which still can mean anything), there is no way Zen will do any better than those when it comes to core per core performance.

What AMD can do is close the gap by a decent margin and offer more cores/threads for a better price. Their platform is also most likely going to be cheaper compared to Intel's HEDT. Just doing this would put them in a way better spot than what they've been in the last few years.

Zen destroying anything is nothing but hyperbole.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Also the mobo is usually the cheaper component, if you do manage to trash a mobo's socket pins, you can buy a new mobo for less than $100 unless you're buying a crazy super OC enthusiast mobo.

 

[tuxfool]

I'm not sure why this is bad, Land Grid Arrays are a pain in the ass.

 

[score01]

🙁

I'm still hoping, but now, I've got nothing to hold on to.

I wouldn't rule anything out yet. In a worse case I don't see Scorpio as having jaguar cpu. The pro was rumoured to have a better cpu option that put the price up by $100. At minimum I expect the Scorpio to use that cpu.

 

[Jebusman]

I'm not sure why this is bad, Land Grid Arrays are a pain in the ass.

?

I have had infinitely less problems with LGAs than I have had with PGAs.

 

[Nikodemos]

I had an AMD CPU 10 years ago and when I tried to take off the cooler, the thermal paste stuck the cooler to the CPU, and in turn, ripped the CPU out of the socket while the latch was still down locking the CPU into place. It bent a shitload of the pins and basically fucked the CPU.

Wut. Don't people know to twist the heatsink first before removing to break surface tension? And what kind of paste was it? That white stuff or metal?

 

[Papacheeks]

One benchmark doesn't mean anything. We don't even know at what clocks Zen will comfortably run at before burning up. Considering how Skylake/Kaby Lake can easily do >4GHz without needing to run at insane voltages and how AMD has repeatedly stated there'll be an IPC increase of about 40% (which still can mean anything), there is no way Zen will do any better than those when it comes to core per core performance.

What AMD can do is close the gap by a decent margin and offer more cores/threads for a better price. Their platform is also most likely going to be cheaper compared to Intel's HEDT. Just doing this would put them in a way better spot than what they've been in the last few years.

Zen destroying anything is nothing but hyperbole.

There are different sku's code named SR3 SR5 SR7. ANd variations in between for ones with low clock speeds with high core count.

I am not saying they are going to destroy the top of the line xeon or anything. I'm saying performance wise they will be on par with intel or possibly edge out for a much cheaper price.

Which seeing the benches for Kabey lake will be good to put pressure on intel to wither lower prices, or make more meaningful upgrades in their cpu's.

 

[tuxfool]

?

I have had infinitely less problems with LGAs than I have had with PGAs.

I've found LGAs to be much more fiddly and liable to produce bad contacts.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Wut. Don't people know to twist the heatsink first before removing to break surface tension? And what kind of paste was it? That white stuff or metal?

It's been so long, I have no idea. It was early college for me. I would say white stuff. White or silver. Some sort of stuff like that.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Please be competitive enough with Intel again. Please be competitive enough with Intel again. Please be competitive enough with Intel again. Please be competitive enough with Intel again. Please be competitive enough with Intel again.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I wouldn't rule anything out yet. In a worse case I don't see Scorpio as having jaguar cpu. The pro was rumoured to have a better cpu option that put the price up by $100. At minimum I expect the Scorpio to use that cpu.

How would MS know what Sony was going to use? Also, that was just a rumor that never panned out.

Using anything other than jaguar opens up far more compatibility problems as well, like Sony is having with games performing worse on pro

 

[ThatFrenchGuy]

For those that still believe Scorpio is going to be using a Zen CPU, just read the article below: it'll keep your unrealistic expectations in check.

https://www.google.fr/amp/www.eurog...e-project-scorpio-spec-analysis?client=safari

 

[Chobel]

Do you need me to quote the countless times game company reps or any other tech reps state something and end up changing from what they said?

If you been watching these companies for a long time you would know to never take anything as final until it's out

lol

 

[Toadthemushroom]

How would MS know what Sony was going to use? Also, that was just a rumor that never panned out.

Using anything other than jaguar opens up far more compatibility problems as well, like Sony is having with games performing worse on pro

The Pro uses Jaguar, so what compatibility problems are you referring to?

Games perform worse on Pro in some areas because of memory bandwidth bottlenecks.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The Pro uses Jaguar, so what compatibility problems are you referring to?

Games perform worse on Pro in some areas because of memory bandwidth bottlenecks.

Er, your right. i got confused with something else entirely

 

[PeterLegend]

$499 Scorpio here we come, TAKE MY MONEY

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I'm not sure why this is bad, Land Grid Arrays are a pain in the ass.

I have heard/read somewhere that Pin Grid Arrays can be a bit problematic for modern CPUs because the pins act like little antennas which can cause interference for certain frequencies or something like that.

 

[tuxfool]

I have heard/read somewhere that Pin Grid Arrays can be a bit problematic for modern CPUs because the pins act like little antennas which can cause interference for certain frequencies or something like that.

There is no real electronic difference, LGA sockets also have long contacts, only those are arranged horizontally to touch metallic pads. Pins are fine if they're not too long or are properly shielded. Additionally one would hope on a digital bus, the lines would be driven such that signal integrity on such pins would vastly superior to whatever radio waves such contacts would pick up.

 

[Projectjustice]

The Return of the King!

 

[BleedOrange]

I fully expect MS to move mountains to get Zen into Scorpio, whether that means APU or discrete components. I'm still optimistic.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I fully expect MS to move mountains to get Zen into Scorpio, whether that means APU or discrete components. I'm still optimistic.

They can't do anything if AMD is not ready. That's just how it is. It doesn't matter how much people want it.

 

[potatohead]

I need this shiz for my new pc I want to build just need HDR monitor and OS support also

 

[JaseC]

I wouldn't rule anything out yet. In a worse case I don't see Scorpio as having jaguar cpu.

The only other option is Puma, but the focus there was power consumption, not performance, so it'd be a lateral move in the latter regard. Considering that Su has only reiterated the expected 2018/2019 timeframe for Zen's inclusion into AMD's custom/semi-custom business, it is very safe to say that Zen in Scorpio isn't happening unless Microsoft delays its release. If the X1 weren't the runt of the eighth-gen litter (Wii U aside), I could see Microsoft sitting on its hands for a while longer, but with things as they are, my prognostication is that Scorpio will release in Q4 2017 as currently intended.

 

[Terbinator]

I need this shiz for my new pc I want to build just need HDR monitor and OS support also

Doesn't Shadow Warrior 2 already deliver HDR on PC?

 

[JaseC]

Doesn't Shadow Warrior 2 already deliver HDR on PC?

Yeah. There are no technical hurdles impeding HDR support in PC games.

 

[mrklaw]

The only other option is Puma, but the focus there was power consumption, not performance, so it'd be a lateral move in the latter regard. Considering that Su has only reiterated the expected 2018/2019 timeframe for Zen's inclusion into AMD's custom/semi-custom business, it is very safe to say that Zen in Scorpio isn't happening unless Microsoft delays its release. If the X1 weren't the runt of the eighth-gen litter (Wii U aside), I could see Microsoft sitting on its hands for a while longer, but with things as they are, my prognostication is that Scorpio will release in Q4 2017 as currently intended.

And then they'll be too close to potential zen APUs to do another console quickly. I don't know this timing will work out for them. Sony will be bel to do a PS5 around 2019 with zen and maybe 7nm, but that would only be two years after Scorpio so MS might not be able to do the same. Will be a very interesting few years if both companies are off cycle from each other, although that might suit them to avoid direct confrontation

 

[truth411]

And then they'll be too close to potential zen APUs to do another console quickly. I don't know this timing will work out for them. Sony will be bel to do a PS5 around 2020-2021 with zen and maybe 7nm, but that would only be three to four years after Scorpio so MS might not be able to do the same. Will be a very interesting few years if both companies are off cycle from each other, although that might suit them to avoid direct confrontation

Fixed.

 

[Guymelef]

$499 Scorpio here we come, TAKE MY MONEY

You are the first who posted here...

SURPRISE It's in Scorpio lol

...And seems like you don't care reading a single reply...

 

[JaseC]

Fixed.

I doubt Sony is going to let Microsoft hold Scorpio over the head of the PS4 Pro for three or four years. I firmly believe we've moved beyond traditionally-defined generations into a game of leapfrog -- going forward, we're not going to see more than two years between updated consoles (Sony will respond to Scorpio no later than 2019, Microsoft will respond to Sony no later than 2021, and so on) until it's clear that consumers are sick of being asked to upgrade so regularly.

 

[AmyS]

No Zen in Scorpio, we will have to wait for next gen for enhanced CPU capability.

Yup, sadly that's true.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Not sure if this has been shown, the AMD investor presentation

https://app.scoutfin.com/document.h...b759fd048&_branch_match_id=297670879870932296

Now I'm not making any speculation but only one console is mentioned on the future semi custom slide...

Again, just find it interesting considering the talk of zen in the rest of the presentation.

 

[JaseC]

Not sure if this has been shown, the AMD investor presentation

https://app.scoutfin.com/document.h...b759fd048&_branch_match_id=297670879870932296

Now I'm not making any speculation but only one console is mentioned on the future semi custom slide...

Again, just find it interesting considering the talk of zen in the rest of the presentation.

That's not an allusion to Scorpio using Zen. The "new quote" I refer to is from this financial conference, which was held mere days ago.

 

[Stop It]

The only other option is Puma, but the focus there was power consumption, not performance, so it'd be a lateral move in the latter regard. Considering that Su has only reiterated the expected 2018/2019 timeframe for Zen's inclusion into AMD's custom/semi-custom business, it is very safe to say that Zen in Scorpio isn't happening unless Microsoft delays its release. If the X1 weren't the runt of the eighth-gen litter (Wii U aside), I could see Microsoft sitting on its hands for a while longer, but with things as they are, my prognostication is that Scorpio will release in Q4 2017 as currently intended.

They have the option potentially of Stoney Ridge, as that is aimed at ultra mobile where previous AMD "construction machine" designs were not suitable for that market hence Jaguar was made. As it's Excavator based so nowhere near Zen, but would be potentially usable.

It depends what lengths MS are willing to go to ensure full compatability with X1 etc as the more changes made the harder it becomes. Nothing stopping them other than that However. Zen however is a stretch too far most likely.

 

[JaseC]

It depends what lengths MS are willing to go to ensure full compatability with X1 etc as the more changes made the harder it becomes. Nothing stopping them other than that However. Zen however is a stretch too far most likely.

AMD's said twice now that Zen won't be an option for custom/semi-custom contracts until at least 2018. At this point I'd say it's a practical impossibility rather than a stretch, but you're right that Stoney Ridge may be an avenue Microsoft can take that isn't doubling down on Jaguar.

 

[Stop It]

AMD's said twice now that Zen won't be an option for custom/semi-custom contracts until at least 2018. At this point I'd say it's a practical impossibility rather than a stretch, but you're right that Stoney Ridge may be an avenue Microsoft can take that isn't doubling down on Jaguar.

Indeed, Zen just won't be ready in time, especially considering that the "Normal" Zen architecture has taken so long getting here to start with let alone semi-custom designs.

Of course, I don't want to talk in absolutes because the moment I say "It categorically won't be Zen" it'll be announced as such!

 

[MilkyJoe]

That's not an allusion to Scorpio using Zen. The "new quote" I refer to is from this financial conference, which was held mere days ago.

Hmm... That's quite disconcerting

 

[JaseC]

Of course, I don't want to talk in absolutes because the moment I say "It categorically won't be Zen" it'll be announced as such!

Haha, fair enough.

 

[Ushay]

The Scorpio is just playing Xbox One games in 4K. It doesn't need a new CPU to do that.

I wouldn't rule Zen out, and there is a realistic chance of it from a tech / timing perspective. But I think the same Jaguar is the most likely.

But isn't the device supposed to bridge the gap between generations?

 

[Durante]

I'm saying performance wise they will be on par with intel or possibly edge out

What gives you that idea? Even taking AMD's own claims of 40% IPC improvements over their previous generation completely at face value, they still wouldn't match current Intel IPC. Do you believe they will make up for that by 5 GHz clocks?

Now performance/price? They could well be competitive there. But I jut don't see a way for that to occur in absolute performance.

 

[leeh]

AMD's said twice now that Zen won't be an option for custom/semi-custom contracts until at least 2018. At this point I'd say it's a practical impossibility rather than a stretch, but you're right that Stoney Ridge may be an avenue Microsoft can take that isn't doubling down on Jaguar.

If they put in a CPU that doesn't share similar performance to say a Skylake i5, then those 6TF are going to waste IMO.

 

[JaseC]

If they put in a CPU that doesn't share similar performance to say a Skylake i5, then those 6TF are going to waste IMO.

Yeah, a substantial improvement in graphics rendering power is all well and good, but GPGPU programming isn't some sort of magic wand that can wave away a large CPU bottleneck. Games with uneven performance or that are not 60fps on the PS4/X1 due to the Jaguar's limited power are still going to encounter similar struggles on Scorpio if there isn't an accordant improvement in processing power.

 

[shark sandwich]

One benchmark doesn't mean anything. We don't even know at what clocks Zen will comfortably run at before burning up. Considering how Skylake/Kaby Lake can easily do >4GHz without needing to run at insane voltages and how AMD has repeatedly stated there'll be an IPC increase of about 40% (which still can mean anything), there is no way Zen will do any better than those when it comes to core per core performance.

What AMD can do is close the gap by a decent margin and offer more cores/threads for a better price. Their platform is also most likely going to be cheaper compared to Intel's HEDT. Just doing this would put them in a way better spot than what they've been in the last few years.

Zen destroying anything is nothing but hyperbole.

Hasnt AMD said that this will be somewhere between Haswell and Broadwell in performance per clock? You are right that this isn't going to be THE top of the line gaming CPU. What it could end up being is a Broadwell-E killer. As in, performance on par with the 8 core Broadwell-E but MUCH cheaper.

 

[mrklaw]

If they put in a CPU that doesn't share similar performance to say a Skylake i5, then those 6TF are going to waste IMO.

If they make it only play Xbox one games in higher resolution then anything more than jaguar is a waste IMO

If they make it only play Xbox one games in higher resolution then those 6TF are going to waste IMO

Again this feels more like people projecting their wishes onto a piece of hardware before it comes out, rather than applying any kind of logic to all the comments about it so far from both MS and AMD and the available technology in that time frame

 

[AmyS]

Incremental design wins secured amounting to 1.5B over the next 3 to 4 years

Current-gen / mid-gen upgrade revenue, or hello PS5/XB2 !?

 

[Leyasu]

They can't do anything if AMD is not ready. That's just how it is. It doesn't matter how much people want it.

Just like it doesn't matter how many times people are in Scorpio threads not wanting zen to be in it...

I can't see them going with jaguar. I could be wrong though.

It will be an interesting day when they confirm the cpu. Lots of people will cheer/cry whatever gets announced.

 

[Renekton]

Hasnt AMD said that this will be somewhere between Haswell and Broadwell in performance per clock? You are right that this isn't going to be THE top of the line gaming CPU. What it could end up being is a Broadwell-E killer. As in, performance on par with the 8 core Broadwell-E but MUCH cheaper.

I think it was that AMD partner meeting where they showed a very curated benchmark chart (edit: Blender) which looked decent, while other "leaked" stuff showed them falling short of Haswell. Otherwise everybody is simply extrapolating 40% over Vishera / Zambezi.

I highly doubt it is a boost for games over i5, but should be very attractive for cheap 8C16T box to render/compile/vm stuff.

 

[Nostremitus]

If they make it only play Xbox one games in higher resolution then anything more than jaguar is a waste IMO

If they make it only play Xbox one games in higher resolution then those 6TF are going to waste IMO

Again this feels more like people projecting their wishes onto a piece of hardware before it comes out, rather than applying any kind of logic to all the comments about it so far from both MS and AMD and the available technology in that time frame

No necessarily. you need better than Jaguar to play a lot of the most recent games at 60fps instead of 30...

Just look at how many PS4 Pro titles are still stuck at 30fps due to Jaguar...

Xbox One games at 4K60 with upgraded visuals would need the power...

For reference, RotTR on PS4 Pro... you have 4K mode, enhanced visual mode at 1080p, and uncapped framerate mode at 1080p(which still isn't 60fps despite being at standard PS4 settings, this is due to the Jaguar CPU bottleneck...)

In order for Scorpio to roll all three modes at once... and it would need the extra horsepower from both the 6TF and Zen to do it... Jaguar just won't cut it... So, if they are sticking with Jaguary, the extra GPU power is pretty pointless since you con't get better framerates out of it...

 

[Renekton]

Xbox One games at 4K60 with upgraded visuals would need the power...

Then again 6TF wouldn't cut it for 4K60 anyways, that amount of floppies sounds just about enough for native 4K30.

 

[DieH@rd]

No necessarily. you need better than Jaguar to play a lot of the most recent games at 60fps instead of 30...

Just look at how many PS4 Pro titles are still stuck at 30fps due to Jaguar...

Xbox One games at 4K60 with upgraded visuals would need the power...

MS did not promise 4K60. They hyped up only 4K, and 6TF GPU is not enough for 4K60 anyways.

edit -beaten

 

[Nostremitus]

Then again 6TF wouldn't cut it for 4K60 anyways, that amount of floppies sounds just about enough for native 4K30.

MS did not promise 4K60. They hyped up only 4K, and 6TF GPU is not enough for 4K60 anyways.

edit -beaten

That's just not true...

Hell, look at what the PS4 Pro is doing with a 4.2TF GPU. It has several native 4K games and plenty more checkerboard 4K30 that are held back by CPU bottlenecks. A 6TF GPU would be even better suited for 4K60, even checkerboard 4K60 would be better than native 4K30.... The bottleneck is Jaguar... The tablet chip that wasn't even good enough to get bids to be used in tablets is just not capable of feeding the GPU fast enough for 60fps in most modern games regardless of whether it's 900p, 1080p or 4K...