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[Astarte]

Good to know. I'll get that one then. This is fucking awesome, I didn't watch it all because I don't want to get spoiled.

Worst case scenario, if I still can't manage to stand the gameplay, I'll just watch a walkthrough on youtube, seems to be worth it.



I wish I had someone to slap me in the face and tell me to keep playing, it really seems to be rather unique.

Here, once you finish the game you can scope out unanswered questions with things such as these

http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/562551-killer7/faqs/38193
They go DEEP into the plot and are REALLY interesting to read. Trust me, you won't regret it.

.

Here comes the sun

 

[Tomat]

I watched the video, and here’s my reply. I haven’t read the entirely of the thread yet, so please excuse my if I’ve missed something already written here! Also keep in mind this is my personal opinion, and is in no way reflective of XSEED Games, my employer.

- "You seduce women in a bar using X-Ray glasses."
Untrue. Mondo is modeled after James Bond ("Mondo" and "Bond" sound the same in Japanese), and his escapades with women were meant to be a reflection of the "man every woman wants" thing. Basically, as you progress through the game, women will call Mondo and beg for a date. You can go on these dates in locations that vary depending on the girl, not just bars, and yeah, you do what a dude who has only one thing on his mind does (not saying every dude, just that kind of dude) and stare at her a hell of a lot. The glasses are not used to seduce; they're used in a couple of ways, including as 'x-ray' glasses and to also look inside of her heart and figure out her likes and dislikes so you can give her gifts that she likes. It’s worth noting you can get by just fine without them.

- "She's referred to as a 'target'"
This is a half-truth. This is not a game where Mondo finds a chick and literally beelines towards her and relentlessly hits on her. The entire game is presented on a world map of sorts, and you scroll through various locations where you choose your missions. 'Targets' are the character you are directly interacting with for said mission, and it is used to describe both the girls in Gigolo Mode as well as your targets of execution in story mode. It's not exclusively to the women as the video makes it sound and shouldn’t be interpreted in a negative light.

- "By look at her breasts and crotch, she will, of course, like you more."
Worded incorrectly. It's true that you're basically ogling your date while she isn't looking, but if she catches you, she'll be hella pissed off. There's a meter on the right that's indicative of her mood, and if you stare too much, you obviously won't be having a very good date by the end. Some of these endings are pretty hilarious, and if you’re not into this whole Gigolo Mode thing, you might find them to be sweet justice.

- "If you are successful at checking out her nips, you gain the ability to use gigolo glasses."
Incorrect. Again, the glasses are unlockable or available as pre-order DLC.

- "ludicrously proportioned"
As a female, I'll say that's actually wrong as well. I actually changed the measurements myself in the English version to be a more accruate and proportionate reflection of their character models, since I know a thing or two about female measurements.

- "The more you stare at this woman's bosoms, the more you learn what her favorite things are"
Incorrect. The gigolo glasses DO tell you the things that she likes whether you decide to stare at her lingerie or not (hell, you can look to the side if you're uncomfortable for that part). You can also get a good idea of what each girl likes based on, well, them. Obviously a girl like Koharu, who is presented as very demure, is probably not going to like a flashy watch, and obviously a go-getter like Natalia isn't going to have any interest in a cute baby doll as a gift. Gift-giving is so ridiculously over-the-top like the rest of the game, and it's silly as all get-out. Don’t take it seriously, have fun with it.

- "But the selection of things that these women like is downright offensive."
Flowers - Not sure about how offensive giving a single red rose to a girl is. Cliche, yes, but hardly offensive.
Booze - You buy her a drink, it’s presented in the same manner as other gifts. You can give a Schnapps bottle as a gift though, but I don’t know, booze is a pretty sweet gift.
Money- INCORRECT, COMPLETELY INCORRECT. You can give a commemorative gold coin, and it does not translate to cash. You DO NOT giving cash to your dates as gifts. I cannot believe how inaccurate this is.
Worth noting that other gifts are like a Japanese fan, chewing gum, or a necklace. This video pulls pulls out the ones he finds offensive and sort of abstracts them.

- "They give you a present"
True, but he's making it sound like a trade, like, “Hey, thanks for the sex, here’s something in exchange.” The girls declare that they made a gift exclusively for you, which can be pretty interesting items. It's silly, but I interpreted Natalia as one badass chick when she made me a Drill Arm. Like, a complex device you attatch to your mechanical arm to bust walls and fight enemies. Coooooool.


- "Not about waving a flag of gender equality"
I have to admit, I hate this kind of card being pulled. Not every damn game has to be politically correct. This game actually does have characterized women outside of Gigolo Mode, including your boss whom you respect because she's business-smart and no-nonsense, your upbeat assistant, an elegant, mysterious woman, as well as targets for execution and clients who hire you to do the executing during story mode. In fact, more women are in story mode than in Gigolo Mode.

This is also Mondo’s story, a guy designed to be charismatic who cuts off heads and travels the world (and the moon, the freaking moon) for a living and meets beautiful women in the process. It’s not meant to be a politically correct game and doesn’t even try to pretend it is, which, I think, is far more offensive. And since I’ve played quite a few SUDA 51 games, I can say he’s never the type to be that politically correct in any of his work anyway- this game is, completely, a SUDA title. Is it kind of stupid? Yeah, it definitely is. You’ll either laugh at it or feel slightly uncomfortable; I was the former, as, like with anything else in a game that has tiger tattoos coming to life and unicorns and a Hansel and Gretel/Alice in Wonderland house, I noticed it was completely ridiculous. Purposefully so.

This video also doesn’t note that these missions, while an chance to gather unique and useful gifts, is completely optional. If you don’t like it and just want to play through the story? You can do that, it’s no problem. The story itself is high action, fast and furious, and full of unlockable abilities and twists and turns that do not ever require you to go on dates or try to ‘get lucky’.

I’m not going to say it’s wrong to be offended by it, but I also think he was giving misinformation and also taking it way too seriously, especially when he had some of the context of the game to go off of.

Thanks for clearing some of that up.

 

[BocoDragon]

Exactly.

Unless your game is literally saying "fuck the Jews Hitler all the way" or something in the ridiculous ballpark of that, you're allowed to make it imo

As a consumer you can choose what you want to consume or not. 7 billion or so people on the planet, a good chunk of which play games...not everyone will share your views or values.

Your sacred cow might be their double cheeseburger.

I'm with you freedom of expression bros.

Not that activists can't criticize, or raise consciousness, try to change public opinion, etc...

 

[dubq]

I watched the video, and here’s my reply. I haven’t read the entirely of the thread yet, so please excuse my if I’ve missed something already written here! Also keep in mind this is my personal opinion, and is in no way reflective of XSEED Games, my employer.

- "You seduce women in a bar using X-Ray glasses."
Untrue. Mondo is modeled after James Bond ("Mondo" and "Bond" sound the same in Japanese), and his escapades with women were meant to be a reflection of the "man every woman wants" thing. Basically, as you progress through the game, women will call Mondo and beg for a date. You can go on these dates in locations that vary depending on the girl, not just bars, and yeah, you do what a dude who has only one thing on his mind does (not saying every dude, just that kind of dude) and stare at her a hell of a lot. The glasses are not used to seduce; they're used in a couple of ways, including as 'x-ray' glasses and to also look inside of her heart and figure out her likes and dislikes so you can give her gifts that she likes. It’s worth noting you can get by just fine without them.

- "She's referred to as a 'target'"
This is a half-truth. This is not a game where Mondo finds a chick and literally beelines towards her and relentlessly hits on her. The entire game is presented on a world map of sorts, and you scroll through various locations where you choose your missions. 'Targets' are the character you are directly interacting with for said mission, and it is used to describe both the girls in Gigolo Mode as well as your targets of execution in story mode. It's not exclusively to the women as the video makes it sound and shouldn’t be interpreted in a negative light.

- "By look at her breasts and crotch, she will, of course, like you more."
Worded incorrectly. It's true that you're basically ogling your date while she isn't looking, but if she catches you, she'll be hella pissed off. There's a meter on the right that's indicative of her mood, and if you stare too much, you obviously won't be having a very good date by the end. Some of these endings are pretty hilarious, and if you’re not into this whole Gigolo Mode thing, you might find them to be sweet justice.

- "If you are successful at checking out her nips, you gain the ability to use gigolo glasses."
Incorrect. Again, the glasses are unlockable or available as pre-order DLC.

- "ludicrously proportioned"
As a female, I'll say that's actually wrong as well. I actually changed the measurements myself in the English version to be a more accruate and proportionate reflection of their character models, since I know a thing or two about female measurements.

- "The more you stare at this woman's bosoms, the more you learn what her favorite things are"
Incorrect. The gigolo glasses DO tell you the things that she likes whether you decide to stare at her lingerie or not (hell, you can look to the side if you're uncomfortable for that part). You can also get a good idea of what each girl likes based on, well, them. Obviously a girl like Koharu, who is presented as very demure, is probably not going to like a flashy watch, and obviously a go-getter like Natalia isn't going to have any interest in a cute baby doll as a gift. Gift-giving is so ridiculously over-the-top like the rest of the game, and it's silly as all get-out. Don’t take it seriously, have fun with it.

- "But the selection of things that these women like is downright offensive."
Flowers - Not sure about how offensive giving a single red rose to a girl is. Cliche, yes, but hardly offensive.
Booze - You buy her a drink, it’s presented in the same manner as other gifts. You can give a Schnapps bottle as a gift though, but I don’t know, booze is a pretty sweet gift.
Money- INCORRECT, COMPLETELY INCORRECT. You can give a commemorative gold coin, and it does not translate to cash. You DO NOT giving cash to your dates as gifts. I cannot believe how inaccurate this is.
Worth noting that other gifts are like a Japanese fan, chewing gum, or a necklace. This video pulls pulls out the ones he finds offensive and sort of abstracts them.

- "They give you a present"
True, but he's making it sound like a trade, like, “Hey, thanks for the sex, here’s something in exchange.” The girls declare that they made a gift exclusively for you, which can be pretty interesting items. It's silly, but I interpreted Natalia as one badass chick when she made me a Drill Arm. Like, a complex device you attatch to your mechanical arm to bust walls and fight enemies. Coooooool.


- "Not about waving a flag of gender equality"
I have to admit, I hate this kind of card being pulled. Not every damn game has to be politically correct. This game actually does have characterized women outside of Gigolo Mode, including your boss whom you respect because she's business-smart and no-nonsense, your upbeat assistant, an elegant, mysterious woman, as well as targets for execution and clients who hire you to do the executing during story mode. In fact, more women are in story mode than in Gigolo Mode.

This is also Mondo’s story, a guy designed to be charismatic who cuts off heads and travels the world (and the moon, the freaking moon) for a living and meets beautiful women in the process. It’s not meant to be a politically correct game and doesn’t even try to pretend it is, which, I think, is far more offensive. And since I’ve played quite a few SUDA 51 games, I can say he’s never the type to be that politically correct in any of his work anyway- this game is, completely, a SUDA title. Is it kind of stupid? Yeah, it definitely is. You’ll either laugh at it or feel slightly uncomfortable; I was the former, as, like with anything else in a game that has tiger tattoos coming to life and unicorns and a Hansel and Gretel/Alice in Wonderland house, I noticed it was completely ridiculous. Purposefully so.

This video also doesn’t note that these missions, while an chance to gather unique and useful gifts, is completely optional. If you don’t like it and just want to play through the story? You can do that, it’s no problem. The story itself is high action, fast and furious, and full of unlockable abilities and twists and turns that do not ever require you to go on dates or try to ‘get lucky’.

I’m not going to say it’s wrong to be offended by it, but I also think he was giving misinformation and also taking it way too seriously, especially when he had some of the context of the game to go off of.

Excellent post.

 

[SousedLouse]

I had a hard time deciding between him and Tomonobu for that spot but ultimately felt that Tomonobu would probably be the keyboard player.

Y'know, that's a good point. I can respect that.

But what if...what if he WOULDN'T condone actively raping women in video games? That would mean you were just spouting a bunch of bullshit to try and present him in a negative light.

Shh, don't interrupt, solarus is trying to set up a teaching moment for you.

But...he doesn't. He doesn't "tend to shove" anything down anyone's throat. This minigame...is optional. It's something that can be skipped entirely, like hookers or dancers in the grand theft auto series.

Eh, if there's anything significant to be gained in Gigolo mode, then in a roundabout way it'd be mandatory to gain 100%, and that would be kind of bad too. It would probably garner a similar reaction to that upskirt trophy in Lollipop Chainsaw.

 

[Vice]

I KNOW RIGHT? MY GOD why can't everyone see how fun it is to look at bras and undies in a game?? also giving shitty gifts to have sex in a game is so muuchh fun!!!

I wish Suda would concentrate more on having decent Gameplay instead of working on shitty creeper minigames.

Its farcical. It's supposed to be absurd.

 

[Astarte]

And yes, I was focusing on Kaede in particular. She's one of the more undeveloped characters in the game, she's covered in blood, she's without footwear, and she carries a big gun. What's she there for? Yes, I know she's one of the killers a part of the collective, but she seems much more like a pseudo-vulnerable facet of the personality. The other side characters you mentioned had more depth than Kaede. To me, she just screams added diversity for the sake of it.

But she's not. EVERYTHING about KAEDE is answered IN the game itself. WHY she trembles when she holds a gun, why she's slow to reload it, why she's covered in blood, what her connection to the elementary school is and why she joined the syndicate...the only thing NOT answered is Iwazaru's wife.

 

[weevles]

Don't like? Don't buy. For better or worse, there's no way to stop shit from being made, but people can certainly not buy it.

In this case, Suda games don't sell very well anyway...maybe rage is misdirected here as he's railing on a title that only sells to a certain audience who already shares the views of the creator.

 

[Dolphin_Butter]

I love you.

Seconded.

 

[Kurod]

counter

Thank you for clearing this up.

 

[flamingotripod]

Why was the reviewer/video guy so offended when the game character gives the woman gifts? He acts like giving a woman flowers is the same as committing a crime.

I wonder how this guy reacts when he walks into a club.

 

[Clawww]

No. Just no at this whole reply. You can't say this is alright, not in the slightest. Even if it is "optional" the developer still went out of their way to put it in the damn game, making it clear that this is what they thought was right in terms of sexulasing the opposite sex and saying "hey this is fine!"

This is in no way a good thing for our industry, and I really hope we get out of these stupid design decisions that make gamers look like pigs and sexual criminals. Its absurd that anyone even thought this was a good idea, especially the whole looking at someone to make them like you? The hell? This doesn't happen at all in real life, and the notion that its fine to do so and you get rewarded for it is just...wow.

sigh

do you feel this way about movies too? are games obligated to live up certain "acceptable" and "appropriate" standards?

 

[fabricated backlash]

Sigh, read my post. It "was a what if" scenario if the minigame went further and did have rape, I presume you would still defend this bullshit so good for you I guess.

That's a weird analogy to go from casual sex pick ups at a bar mini game to straight out rape, unless of course casual sex out of clubs, always leads to rape, but I'm sure you'd not insinuate something as ridiculous as that.

So to go to your hypothetical... If the Minigame would lead to rape, then why do you even think for a second that people would condone rape? People are arguing for the viability of depicting everything the author/director of a game wants to portray. Be it violence, genocide, sex, gender, perversions of all kind, child labor, child soldiers, dogs humping, nothing can be off limits.

Why was the reviewer/video guy so offended when the game character gives the woman gifts? He acts like giving a woman flowers is the same as committing a crime.

I wonder how this guy reacts when he walks into a club.

I'd let him talk for 5 minutes to some of my old classmates... He'd probably call them sexist and misogyinists and demand they hand over their women membership badges.

 

[reptilescorpio]

After these responses my respect for Matt Lees is pretty much zero at this point. Misrepresented the game almost to the point of straight up lying to get in on a hot topic.

 

[Astarte]

Eh, if there's anything significant to be gained in Gigolo mode, then in a roundabout way it'd be mandatory to gain 100%, and that would be kind of bad too. It would probably garner a similar reaction to that upskirt trophy in Lollipop Chainsaw.

I'm really hoping that it won't get a similar reaction once the game is released and people find out that, well, it isn't as IN YOUR FACE as people thought it originally was.
But from this thread's explosion of anger, hoo boy

 

[Kinyou]

...Not sure how Avelline is a good example, really

Good example for a realistic relationship. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many "quests" you fulfill for a woman. If she's not into you she's not into you. From all the characters in DA2 she's the only one who didn't happen to be a sex puzzle.

 

[kuppy]

Well have you watched any KID TV? I think these aren't News..

Yes, it's sad.

 

[Jawmuncher]

So much hate for something that isn't even going to amount to much. Especially considering this is going to be a typical Suda niche game in sales compared to something like COD.

With that said I'm glad he had the creative freedom to keep it in. Regardless of people's feelings towards it in the end you vote with your wallet. After reading this thread ill be voting by buying it Day 1.

 

[dubq]

Why was the reviewer/video guy so offended when the game character gives the woman gifts? He acts like giving a woman flowers is the same as committing a crime.

I wonder how this guy reacts when he walks into a club.

Because giving women a "stereotypical" gift is WRONG man, hadn't you heard? He should've given her a toolbox or a car battery.

 

[Vice]

Sigh, read my post. It "was a what if" scenario if the minigame went further and did have rape, I presume you would still defend this bullshit so good for you I guess.

Would that really be that bad though? Suda's past five or so games have all been huge farces. They are not meant to be taken seriously. Jumping from casual-wacky sex mini-games to rape would be a huge leap. However, if a game chose to have a main character who was a rapist why would that be wrong?

 

[ezekial45]

I watched the video, and here’s my reply. I haven’t read the entirely of the thread yet, so please excuse my if I’ve missed something already written here! Also keep in mind this is my personal opinion, and is in no way reflective of XSEED Games, my employer.

- "You seduce women in a bar using X-Ray glasses."
Untrue. Mondo is modeled after James Bond ("Mondo" and "Bond" sound the same in Japanese), and his escapades with women were meant to be a reflection of the "man every woman wants" thing. Basically, as you progress through the game, women will call Mondo and beg for a date. You can go on these dates in locations that vary depending on the girl, not just bars, and yeah, you do what a dude who has only one thing on his mind does (not saying every dude, just that kind of dude) and stare at her a hell of a lot. The glasses are not used to seduce; they're used in a couple of ways, including as 'x-ray' glasses and to also look inside of her heart and figure out her likes and dislikes so you can give her gifts that she likes. It’s worth noting you can get by just fine without them.

- "She's referred to as a 'target'"
This is a half-truth. This is not a game where Mondo finds a chick and literally beelines towards her and relentlessly hits on her. The entire game is presented on a world map of sorts, and you scroll through various locations where you choose your missions. 'Targets' are the character you are directly interacting with for said mission, and it is used to describe both the girls in Gigolo Mode as well as your targets of execution in story mode. It's not exclusively to the women as the video makes it sound and shouldn’t be interpreted in a negative light.

- "By look at her breasts and crotch, she will, of course, like you more."
Worded incorrectly. It's true that you're basically ogling your date while she isn't looking, but if she catches you, she'll be hella pissed off. There's a meter on the right that's indicative of her mood, and if you stare too much, you obviously won't be having a very good date by the end. Some of these endings are pretty hilarious, and if you’re not into this whole Gigolo Mode thing, you might find them to be sweet justice.

- "If you are successful at checking out her nips, you gain the ability to use gigolo glasses."
Incorrect. Again, the glasses are unlockable or available as pre-order DLC.

- "ludicrously proportioned"
As a female, I'll say that's actually wrong as well. I actually changed the measurements myself in the English version to be a more accruate and proportionate reflection of their character models, since I know a thing or two about female measurements.

- "The more you stare at this woman's bosoms, the more you learn what her favorite things are"
Incorrect. The gigolo glasses DO tell you the things that she likes whether you decide to stare at her lingerie or not (hell, you can look to the side if you're uncomfortable for that part). You can also get a good idea of what each girl likes based on, well, them. Obviously a girl like Koharu, who is presented as very demure, is probably not going to like a flashy watch, and obviously a go-getter like Natalia isn't going to have any interest in a cute baby doll as a gift. Gift-giving is so ridiculously over-the-top like the rest of the game, and it's silly as all get-out. Don’t take it seriously, have fun with it.

- "But the selection of things that these women like is downright offensive."
Flowers - Not sure about how offensive giving a single red rose to a girl is. Cliche, yes, but hardly offensive.
Booze - You buy her a drink, it’s presented in the same manner as other gifts. You can give a Schnapps bottle as a gift though, but I don’t know, booze is a pretty sweet gift.
Money- INCORRECT, COMPLETELY INCORRECT. You can give a commemorative gold coin, and it does not translate to cash. You DO NOT giving cash to your dates as gifts. I cannot believe how inaccurate this is.
Worth noting that other gifts are like a Japanese fan, chewing gum, or a necklace. This video pulls pulls out the ones he finds offensive and sort of abstracts them.

- "They give you a present"
True, but he's making it sound like a trade, like, “Hey, thanks for the sex, here’s something in exchange.” The girls declare that they made a gift exclusively for you, which can be pretty interesting items. It's silly, but I interpreted Natalia as one badass chick when she made me a Drill Arm. Like, a complex device you attatch to your mechanical arm to bust walls and fight enemies. Coooooool.


- "Not about waving a flag of gender equality"
I have to admit, I hate this kind of card being pulled. Not every damn game has to be politically correct. This game actually does have characterized women outside of Gigolo Mode, including your boss whom you respect because she's business-smart and no-nonsense, your upbeat assistant, an elegant, mysterious woman, as well as targets for execution and clients who hire you to do the executing during story mode. In fact, more women are in story mode than in Gigolo Mode.

This is also Mondo’s story, a guy designed to be charismatic who cuts off heads and travels the world (and the moon, the freaking moon) for a living and meets beautiful women in the process. It’s not meant to be a politically correct game and doesn’t even try to pretend it is, which, I think, is far more offensive. And since I’ve played quite a few SUDA 51 games, I can say he’s never the type to be that politically correct in any of his work anyway- this game is, completely, a SUDA title. Is it kind of stupid? Yeah, it definitely is. You’ll either laugh at it or feel slightly uncomfortable; I was the former, as, like with anything else in a game that has tiger tattoos coming to life and unicorns and a Hansel and Gretel/Alice in Wonderland house, I noticed it was completely ridiculous. Purposefully so.

This video also doesn’t note that these missions, while a chance to gather unique and useful gifts, is completely optional. If you don’t like it and just want to play through the story? You can do that, it’s no problem. The story itself is high action, fast and furious, and full of unlockable abilities and twists and turns that do not ever require you to go on dates or try to ‘get lucky’.

I’m not going to say it’s wrong to be offended by it, but I also think he was giving misinformation and also taking it way too seriously, especially when he had some of the context of the game to go off of.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[KTallguy]

This is perfectly valid criticism and I completely agree with it. Killer is Dead looks really fucking cool, if it had some Platinum level combat it would be absolutely amazing, and no one would miss Gigolo Mode if that was the price.

It doesn't.

 

[Nags]

I watched the video, and here’s my reply. I haven’t read the entirely of the thread yet, so please excuse my if I’ve missed something already written here! Also keep in mind this is my personal opinion, and is in no way reflective of XSEED Games, my employer.

- "You seduce women in a bar using X-Ray glasses."
Untrue. Mondo is modeled after James Bond ("Mondo" and "Bond" sound the same in Japanese), and his escapades with women were meant to be a reflection of the "man every woman wants" thing. Basically, as you progress through the game, women will call Mondo and beg for a date. You can go on these dates in locations that vary depending on the girl, not just bars, and yeah, you do what a dude who has only one thing on his mind does (not saying every dude, just that kind of dude) and stare at her a hell of a lot. The glasses are not used to seduce; they're used in a couple of ways, including as 'x-ray' glasses and to also look inside of her heart and figure out her likes and dislikes so you can give her gifts that she likes. It’s worth noting you can get by just fine without them.

- "She's referred to as a 'target'"
This is a half-truth. This is not a game where Mondo finds a chick and literally beelines towards her and relentlessly hits on her. The entire game is presented on a world map of sorts, and you scroll through various locations where you choose your missions. 'Targets' are the character you are directly interacting with for said mission, and it is used to describe both the girls in Gigolo Mode as well as your targets of execution in story mode. It's not exclusively to the women as the video makes it sound and shouldn’t be interpreted in a negative light.

- "By look at her breasts and crotch, she will, of course, like you more."
Worded incorrectly. It's true that you're basically ogling your date while she isn't looking, but if she catches you, she'll be hella pissed off. There's a meter on the right that's indicative of her mood, and if you stare too much, you obviously won't be having a very good date by the end. Some of these endings are pretty hilarious, and if you’re not into this whole Gigolo Mode thing, you might find them to be sweet justice.

- "If you are successful at checking out her nips, you gain the ability to use gigolo glasses."
Incorrect. Again, the glasses are unlockable or available as pre-order DLC.

- "ludicrously proportioned"
As a female, I'll say that's actually wrong as well. I actually changed the measurements myself in the English version to be a more accruate and proportionate reflection of their character models, since I know a thing or two about female measurements.

- "The more you stare at this woman's bosoms, the more you learn what her favorite things are"
Incorrect. The gigolo glasses DO tell you the things that she likes whether you decide to stare at her lingerie or not (hell, you can look to the side if you're uncomfortable for that part). You can also get a good idea of what each girl likes based on, well, them. Obviously a girl like Koharu, who is presented as very demure, is probably not going to like a flashy watch, and obviously a go-getter like Natalia isn't going to have any interest in a cute baby doll as a gift. Gift-giving is so ridiculously over-the-top like the rest of the game, and it's silly as all get-out. Don’t take it seriously, have fun with it.

- "But the selection of things that these women like is downright offensive."
Flowers - Not sure about how offensive giving a single red rose to a girl is. Cliche, yes, but hardly offensive.
Booze - You buy her a drink, it’s presented in the same manner as other gifts. You can give a Schnapps bottle as a gift though, but I don’t know, booze is a pretty sweet gift.
Money- INCORRECT, COMPLETELY INCORRECT. You can give a commemorative gold coin, and it does not translate to cash. You DO NOT giving cash to your dates as gifts. I cannot believe how inaccurate this is.
Worth noting that other gifts are like a Japanese fan, chewing gum, or a necklace. This video pulls pulls out the ones he finds offensive and sort of abstracts them.

- "They give you a present"
True, but he's making it sound like a trade, like, “Hey, thanks for the sex, here’s something in exchange.” The girls declare that they made a gift exclusively for you, which can be pretty interesting items. It's silly, but I interpreted Natalia as one badass chick when she made me a Drill Arm. Like, a complex device you attatch to your mechanical arm to bust walls and fight enemies. Coooooool.


- "Not about waving a flag of gender equality"
I have to admit, I hate this kind of card being pulled. Not every damn game has to be politically correct. This game actually does have characterized women outside of Gigolo Mode, including your boss whom you respect because she's business-smart and no-nonsense, your upbeat assistant, an elegant, mysterious woman, as well as targets for execution and clients who hire you to do the executing during story mode. In fact, more women are in story mode than in Gigolo Mode.

This is also Mondo’s story, a guy designed to be charismatic who cuts off heads and travels the world (and the moon, the freaking moon) for a living and meets beautiful women in the process. It’s not meant to be a politically correct game and doesn’t even try to pretend it is, which, I think, is far more offensive. And since I’ve played quite a few SUDA 51 games, I can say he’s never the type to be that politically correct in any of his work anyway- this game is, completely, a SUDA title. Is it kind of stupid? Yeah, it definitely is. You’ll either laugh at it or feel slightly uncomfortable; I was the former, as, like with anything else in a game that has tiger tattoos coming to life and unicorns and a Hansel and Gretel/Alice in Wonderland house, I noticed it was completely ridiculous. Purposefully so.

This video also doesn’t note that these missions, while a chance to gather unique and useful gifts, is completely optional. If you don’t like it and just want to play through the story? You can do that, it’s no problem. The story itself is high action, fast and furious, and full of unlockable abilities and twists and turns that do not ever require you to go on dates or try to ‘get lucky’.

I’m not going to say it’s wrong to be offended by it, but I also think he was giving misinformation and also taking it way too seriously, especially when he had some of the context of the game to go off of.

Oh yes and another quote bump for this #truthfact!

 

[H.Protagonist]

I thought your post was interesting, but it was also so succinct that I didn't feel like there was anything to reply too. It was a solid clarification for the video.

Thanks. I don't often come into the gaming side, but I was forwarded that video earlier today and when I saw the thread pop up, well.

But he is, and you're asking how can people defend it against this video, that's why.



HAHAHAHA WTF, how can people take this game seriously???

And damn, you met Troy Baker? He seems like the kind of person who smells nice.

That was weird.

The whole game is over the top, but that doesn't mean it's above criticism. Discussion is always good to have.

I've worked with Troy a few times. He's a cool guy. And, yes, he does smell nice. Haha.

I agree with this. Regardless of what I think about this gigolo mode (don't think it's really in good taste, tbh), I think a crucial aspect to the evolution of a medium for widespread acceptance is its ability to offer dimensions while catering to different demographics and audiences. Michael Bay exists comfortably within the same medium as Lars Von Trier and Alfonso Cuaron, for example.

And by acceptance, I don't mean "approval", I mean acceptance into everyday life to a point where people don't second-guess why they like a certain thing. They simply like it.

I don't know. I think movies and books reached their respective evolutionary apexes before the advent of social media, where any content deemed objectionable wouldn't have been pushed into the limelight with such immediacy via systems that incentivize quick looks and snap judgments.

The creators within their respective mediums came under scrutiny by other creators (ie. Richardson's "Pamela, or Virtue Rewarded" getting lampooned by Henry Fielding's "Shamela") first, allowing for more of a reflexive dialogue as opposed to the quick fire execution squads we have now. That's not to imply there's no room for critics, quite the opposite. I just wish critics could take the entire spectrum of the medium they analyze as a whole, which doesn't seem to be happening.

For sure. What we need is energy being put into more choices, not curtailing what there is. As you say, there's room for things to comfortably exist next to one another without cutting out whatever meets with the most disapproval. You stifle discourse otherwise. I strongly advocate (probably to the annoyance of my coworkers) better female representation in gaming, but that doesn't mean I think there isn't room for stuff I'm not particularly fond of. Knee-jerk reactions (and judgments) serve no purpose. It's just noise.

That's fair. I definitely respect your stance on the matter. I just don't know if a Suda51 game, which are over the top and greatly exaggerated by nature (and not just in the case of social views on women), is really the place to open up to the wider discussion about sexism in games that's been going on for a bit.

Haha. I agree. It wouldn't be my pick to make a stand, but I was just commenting on the video for the most part. This thread is certainly zooming, though.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

sigh

do you feel this way about movies too? are games obligated to live up certain "acceptable" and "appropriate" standards?

They should.

It's one thing to present sexism in a movie (or game or book) as a means to provide commentary on the existence of sexism. It's completely a different thing to produce a work which is actually sexist. I would hope the distinction is clear.

 

[LordJim]

Good example for a realistic relationship. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many "quests" you fulfill for a woman. If she's not into you she's not into you. From all the characters in DA2 she's the only one who didn't happen to be a sex puzzle.

Technically, origins had that too by courtesy of not everyone being romanceable, since they all had 'quests' and 'puzles' to gain affection.
Golem included

 

[antitrop]

I watched the video, and here’s my reply.

You just set off a nuclear fucking bomb on this joke of a video.

After reading this, the video comes off even more ridiculous with the scene of him throwing dollar bills at a female version of himself on the couch. My eyes just rolled out of my head.

 

[params7]

Hatsuu's post, brilliant stuff.

 

[ezekial45]

I hope we can get Matt to post in here. He's got an account here on GAF.

Thanks again for posting, Hatsu.

 

[NotLiquid]

.

This post so desperately needs to be in the OP. Thanks for all the clarification.

 

[H.Protagonist]

You just set off a nuclear fucking bomb on this joke of a video.

After reading this, the video comes off even more ridiculous with the scene of him throwing dollar bills at a female version of himself on the couch. My eyes just rolled out of my head.

I said as much like 10 pages ago. ;_;

 

[Sub_Level]

I'm with you freedom of expression bros.

Not that activists can't criticize, or raise consciousness, try to change public opinion, etc...

Absolutely. Peoples' minds can be changed on shit. And while I tend to sigh in annoyance at most of this feminist videogame thing whatever, I love that by virtue of their complaints and issues they are recognizing games as a medium of artistic expression. And they deserve all the props in the world for that.

Although it's still kind of weird that a lot of creative games come from weird Japanese guys. It's kind of a...narrow source of influence and expression.

It's like if most blockbusters came from India.

The bollywood dancing of videogames is Japanese pantie upskirt shots.

 

[antitrop]

After these responses my respect for Matt Lees is pretty much zero at this point. Misrepresented the game almost to the point of straight up lying to get in on a hot topic.

Oh, you mean just like that God of War Trophy fiasco a while back that I alluded to earlier in the thread?

WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED? I would love to never see any more of this manufactured outrage, but since I'm opposed to censorship, I just have to accept that I will.

 

[fabricated backlash]

They should.

It's one thing to present sexism in a movie (or game or book) as a means to provide commentary on the existence of sexism. It's completely a different thing to produce a work which is actually sexist. I would hope the distinction is clear.

You do know that this distinction is highly subjective in many cases?
Too many people mistake their offended morals as having a point.

 

[SousedLouse]

I said as much like 10 pages ago. ;_;

I guess you were right about no one noticing that post after all...

 

[dubq]

Oh, you mean just like that God of War Trophy fiasco a while back that I alluded to earlier in the thread?

WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED? This manufactured outrage has got to stop.

What was the GOW fiasco?

 

[CambriaRising]

The guy made a game where you repeatedly watch your scantly clad and sometimes naked girlfriend die in horrifying ways for 6 hours.

But this, this was where he crossed the line.

 

[ezekial45]

I said as much like 10 pages ago. ;_;

She used more colorful descriptions.

Thank you for adding your thoughts, though.

 

[Astarte]

I said as much like 10 pages ago. ;_;

Nothing grabs as much attention as Kaine

 

[Kinyou]

Technically, origins had that too by courtesy of not everyone being romanceable, since they all had 'quests' and 'puzles' to gain affection.
Golem included

I cant really remember having flirt dialogue options or some character actually telling me he's not interested

 

[Uthred]

Matt Lees is an awesome, intelligent (and funny) game journalist. Some people here acting like he is an idiot based on one video because he's offended by something in a game and has an opinion about it 'can' also 'fuck off into space' if you ask me.

The people here defending Suda 51; the fact the game might still be good or that this is an optional mode doesn't make it any less tasteless (and I feel a lot of people here simply defend Suda 51 because they love his games).

Oh Kettle why are you so black?

Even if Matt Lees overreacts a bit at the end of the video, he's just trying to say Suda 51 is not a RESPECTABLE game developer anymore if he does stuff like this. The title of the video is more wordplay than a 'Suda 51's career in gaming is dead after this game' kind of statement.

I literally laughed out loud at the capitalisation of "RESPECTABLE", what a ridiculous turn of phrase.

 

[Nokagi]

Funny, I knew very little about Killer is Dead before watching that video and now I kinda wanna play it. Sorry but the outrage backfired.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You do know that this distinction is highly subjective in many cases?
Too many people mistake their offended morals as having a point.

I don't think it's 'highly subjective'. There will always be people who don't get it, but it's usually pretty obvious when a work is taking a particular stance as a way of proving a point, rather than simply expressing those views wholeheartedly.

 

[jett]

Touch command used on humans is a running joke in many adventure games, eastern or western.
Source of gameovers as well

True, but in Policenauts it just felt creepy.

 

[Gbraga]

It doesn't.

I know, that's what I'm saying. Talking about how they should focus on combat instead is perfectly valid, and I agree with that.

Of course I don't expect anything close to that. My first reaction to the first trailer of Killer is Dead was "please don't suck", so yeah, not high standards for a game from those guys when it comes to combat, but it would be wonderful to have Platinum-quality gameplay in a game with this beautiful art direction.

 

[Astarte]

Good example for a realistic relationship. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many "quests" you fulfill for a woman. If she's not into you she's not into you. From all the characters in DA2 she's the only one who didn't happen to be a sex puzzle.

The only thing I remember about my adventure in DA2 is being accidentally gay. Kind of like mass effect 3, Kaiden just came out of left field

 

[dubq]

Funny, I knew very little about Killer is Dead before watching that video and now I kinda wanna play it. Sorry but the outrage backfired.

Seriously, the only thing that this gong show has accomplished, for me, is serve as a reminder that it comes out in August and that I stilled needed to pre-order. Officially remedied now.

 

[H.Protagonist]

I guess you were right about no one noticing that post after all...

My tears... so much water...

She used more colorful descriptions.

Thank you for adding your thoughts, though.

Her love of boobs is well-known. She was grinding her teeth all day about it so we both chimed in.

Nothing grabs as much attention as Kaine

This is true.

 

[antitrop]

The guy made a game where you repeatedly watch your scantly clad and sometimes naked girlfriend die in horrifying ways for 6 hours.

But this, this was where he crossed the line.

Suda 51: The Line

 

[SlasherJPC]

After these responses my respect for Matt Lees is pretty much zero at this point. Misrepresented the game almost to the point of straight up lying to get in on a hot topic.

Again... this Matt Lees dude was simply using a controversial topic for hits to his video. His reactions, his lying, his molding of the truth. It all reeks of "I got this one in the bag" Especially with the fact that the game isn't even out to the general public, probably figured no one could defend it. If it's an opinion piece he surely could have waited to release this video AFTER the game was available to everyone.