Just Cause dev said in May:
Suggests something similiar along the lines of "eSRAM is a pain in the ass", only worded more professionally.
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Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
- Start date
Just Cause dev said in May:
Suggests something similiar along the lines of "eSRAM is a pain in the ass", only worded more professionally.
HORRORSHØW
Member
hear hear.
lastflowers
Banned
I think this type of hyperbole is more tiring for me than anything else.
So immature dev tools, worse performance, and a developer quote. This conversation was not about power, we know the ps4 is more powerful. I stated clearly that it was my opinion that once dev tools mature it wont be a pain. So I wasnt commenting on the environment with the immature tools we have now, and the Developer could clearly think its a pain now but with mature tools, im stating maybe the story changes.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
this forum is so full of itself. entertaining though.
Quadraphonic
Member
Well, on a positive note, you may notice I used the past tense. Because of the incredible scrutiny on this forum, and in the video game community in general, a great deal of that has been reversed. It's the nature of competition.
bigboss370
Member
at least two more sources, from the same article...
but we're biased and make up stuff and have lost all logic, objectivity and reason in our blind haste to prop up and exalt Sony amiright?
clickclack
Banned
Funny you left out the quote where the dev states I'm not worried though...MS is usually very good with their tools...you probably just forgot...right...amiright?
I dont have a problem. I get frustrated. A GAF majority dislikes the Kinect, TV, and media features. I highly value all those things. Thats great. Im happy with my plan and dont need affirmation. But I often need to defend my opinions against multiple people nit picking everything I say.
"Multiple high-level game development sources" and "Our contacts" suggest plural. Only one dev made the exact quote published. Anyway, this one Edge article isn't the only time this has been raised.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/xbo...s-fergal-gara-on-the-next-gen-power-struggle/
"We also asked the SCE VP and managing director for the UK and Ireland Fergal Gara if developer feedback tallies with our report. “We are getting similar feedback"
That's how sources in journalism work.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
How does that discredit what he has said. I'm assuming from this post that you now believe what these devs say ... yes? In that case, when they say they're not happy with the tools they are being completely truthful but when they say they trust MS to put it right, they are being 'hopeful'. Only one of those statements can be taken as a FACT. Your argument is pedantic while Bigboss's argument is accurate.
Five stages of Xbox fan grief:
1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
Long way to go till acceptance.
Garrett 2U
Member
What's with all the comments targeting NeoGaf ?
uncomfortable here? Get the fuck out, bunch of whiners!
bigboss370
Member
are you fucking kidding me? you literally said, and i quote:
claiming that we're biased, "making up stuff" about X1 being difficult to develop for just to praise Sony, whereas numerous posts have shown that those claims are based on previously published articles.
but yeah, keep moving goal posts.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
You do know someone posted that quote within the last twenty minutes... Can't be that hard to find it.
FeiRR
Banned
Tell me, what's wrong with liking a company which caters to your taste and delivers quality goods? And likewise: what's wrong with detesting one which does the opposite? If you go to a good restaurant with delicious food and impeccable service, you'll probably recommend it to your friends. If you go to a bad one with dirty dishes and rude waiters, you'll surely warn them.
By your standards, most PC gamers here are almost religious Valve followers. Does it sting when you read that?
Andalus0880
Member
Can I just say - and please mind my in depth technical analysis - this console is such a clusterfuck.
In all honesty, I feel bad for Xbox fans.
Some of you may not care for the apparent hardware deficiencies, but to those that are more sensitive to frame rates, native resolutions, and hell pure eye candy for greater immersion, it's gonna be a long generation for you guys, and it hasn't even started yet.
In all honesty, I feel bad for Xbox fans.
Some of you may not care for the apparent hardware deficiencies, but to those that are more sensitive to frame rates, native resolutions, and hell pure eye candy for greater immersion, it's gonna be a long generation for you guys, and it hasn't even started yet.
Favoring Kinnect in every box isn't worth all this grief.
Teletraan1
Banned
In the article it states that 32 ROPS are overkill for 1080p. Is this just FUD? If it is not and there is some truth in it then why would any game on PS4 be less than 1080p or specifically what would be the bottleneck in the PS4 that could prevent 1080p? I am just a layman here so balance me if I am over delivering on ignorance.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
Isn't it getting a little down to the wire for this kind of thing?
Quadraphonic
Member
Oh man, that Steam controller thread was ugly. Apparently Gabe Newell is a perfect being and nothing the company does can be scrutinized. Any skepticism, criticism or worries of the controller, or even questions, are a bad thing to have. You must accept it as the new normal.
FranXico
Member
No, you understood correctly. It is just FUD.
TetraGenesis
Member
I hate how biased everyone is against genocide. It's like any time someone suggests genocide or talks about it favorably everybody jumps all over them and they get banned. Guess that's just HumanityGAF for ya.
Not comparing XB1/MS to genocide, but I think you get my satire.
Like which ones?
ethomaz
Banned
Just Turn 10 choose 1080p from the first-party titles.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Nah. That was a knee jerk opinion, and I don't think he really came across well with the point he was trying to make. Just because he's a mod doesn't mean he's right all the time.
If you peruse probably the most important event NeoGAF does every year for judging the collective tastes of NeoGAF (or as close as you'll ever get amongst such a diverse body) -- the NeoGAF Games of the Year threads -- you can see that GAF isn't so biased at all. Actually most posters on NeoGAF are just gamers that appreciate good games no matter where they come from, and are pretty pragmatic.
Really, I'd suggest looking at those GOTY Awards threads, especially the ones from 2006-2011. 360 exclusives, timed exclusives or multiplats that were far and away best on 360 (Orange Box, Oblivion, ect) were fairly dominant, with the exception of Nintendo's usual heavy hitters.
Sony's first and only exclusive to make the Top 10 list in 2007 was Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, and that was ranked all the way down at #7! Really, Sony's only HUGE year in that entire 5-year run was 2009, when they came out with Uncharted 2, Demon's Souls, Killzone 2 and Infamous all in the same year, which was a pretty remarkable acheivement that even most due-hard XBox fans will admit to. The next year though, it was Mass Effect 2 and 360 back on top with a Sony exclusive not even making the list until #5 with God of War 3.
Really, 360 games only fell off in 2012. Journey took the top spot, but it wasn't like Sony dominated either. That year, the excitement seemed to center around multiplats and PC games.
I really don't think there's any evidence in the last generation's GOTY Awards that suggests even remotely that this "SonyGAF Bias" is anything but a recent trend based on NeoGAFers' honest opinions as to what they seem to prefer right now, based on the events and facts and surrounding this launch event so far.
Honestly I thought he was serious and believed his claims, but as it was revealed precisely the type of PR stunt this was, I don't think he really believed them.
I believed they were all sat down, analyzed the hardware specs as one of the key concerns among gamers like us who are critical to getting word-of-mouth going for videogame consoles, and tried to do massive spin regarding the Xbox One's "potential" power and the PS4's established power. Maybe he truly does believe most games won't show much if any difference, and that's even potentially a reasonable position, but it was cloaked in so much shite that it's impossible to really say definitively one way or the other. Either way it was a dumb PR failure.
The hardware "benchmarks" are not going to tell us one thing we don't already know. There's really no secret anywhere, these things keep falling pretty much in line with expectations. Other than the surprise 8GB GDDR5, there really hasn't been any significant surprises, unless you want to count Microsoft's upclocks.
I still await them anyway.
Yes. That's spin for you.
All this "GAF is biased" bullshit needs to be thrown out the window. GAF is GAMER biased, that's it. When the PS3 was announced at $599 it was getting shit. When the games didn't look as good as 360 games it was getting shit. When there weren't as many games to play it was getting shit.
GAF cares about games and the games industry, end of story. If some company comes in and fucks with the status quo in a way that GAF doesn't like, they will get get shit for it. If a company comes in and tries to take away consumer rights, your goddamn right we're gonna get pissed off.
I (and a majority of people here) don't give a fuck what system people decide to buy next-gen. If you like the exclusives for the XB1, get a XB1. If you like the exclusives for the PS4, get a PS4. What I do care about is this continual spread of bullshit about which system has the better lineup and this continual downplaying of the hardware differences. We are some of the most knowledgeable gamers out there. If a company tries to feed us bullshit, they will be called out for it. If a company tries to spread FUD, they will be called out for it. Don't claim bias when the company you prefer is getting shit. There is always a reason and the reason is always justified.
GAF cares about games and the games industry, end of story. If some company comes in and fucks with the status quo in a way that GAF doesn't like, they will get get shit for it. If a company comes in and tries to take away consumer rights, your goddamn right we're gonna get pissed off.
I (and a majority of people here) don't give a fuck what system people decide to buy next-gen. If you like the exclusives for the XB1, get a XB1. If you like the exclusives for the PS4, get a PS4. What I do care about is this continual spread of bullshit about which system has the better lineup and this continual downplaying of the hardware differences. We are some of the most knowledgeable gamers out there. If a company tries to feed us bullshit, they will be called out for it. If a company tries to spread FUD, they will be called out for it. Don't claim bias when the company you prefer is getting shit. There is always a reason and the reason is always justified.
Yeah that was point I was trying make, it was kind of petty but the only confirmed Xbox One game we know running at 900p is from Crytek and they aren't 1st party.
Do you just mean Digital Foundry cross gen ports launch comparisons? I'm not even sure what you think they'll be benchmarking
Nafai1123 said:
As always, the "GAF is biased" and "GAF hivemind" folk are just individuals incapable of defending their positions on their own terms and so much turn to trying to paint everyone with a broad brush to try to explain why most of the world around them seems to be against the thing they've intuitively become so emotionally attached to that they can't even see that they stand alone for a reason.
They're not really serious people anymore. It's just a little sad because they are so devoted to a device that they let it physically upset them.
I think you mean second party. Microsoft doesn't own them but is paying for development of the game. A little bit on the semantic side I know, but there is a difference.
Because the rest of the games are 720P or have (if believed) a dynamic resolution system.
It may be that higher level tools or APIs that Microsoft provides to help with using the eSRAM would work well if a dev is using higher level tools and APIs for their whole game.
But for devs that are wanting to code at a lower level, it may be harder for them to leverage and integrate a higher level tool or API with their lower level code, leaving them to still have to manage the eSRAM on their own.
FranXico
Member
It is especially painful for them, coming from last gen where the 360 usually performed better than the PS3. Those bragging rights about native resolution and framerate stability are very likely gone.
chadskin said:
I would say many have already reached the Bargaining stage, with the "but what matters is the games" rhetoric, when they would have had no qualms rubbing hardware superiority in if things had gone differently.
As for Playstation fans, after 7 to 8 long years of being shafted by third-party, they have earned their Schadenfreude.
Albert Penello
Member
I'm still here, reading with great interest. I stated very publicly I wasn't going to chime in on these posts, but I read them.
When I see a question, I still try to answer if I can.
At this point, most everything is known about the system so the need for me to post is reduced - it was more interesting back when we weren't being very clear on some points.
Just the fact that we're 2 months from launch means there's less for me to say. But I'm around.
WordsintheWater
Member
Maybe he was thinking about Killer Instinct, isn't that first party?
I'm just thinking with the consoles architectures being more similar than ever someone Digital Foundry for example could get a hold of dev kits and run some tests or something. That or get interviews from developers who have benchmarked these systems, I think Carmack mentioned something on this, as NDA's should have expired(?). Still I'll settle for simple multiplat comparisons.
No, that's being developed by Double Helix. Again, a second party arrangement for this project.
A game had to pay the "Kinect tax" on the 360 too.. to save money, they took out one of the Kinect's coprocessors and put it what it did as software on the 360. Hence why games that came out before Kinect generally didn't get Kinect backwards compatibility because they were already maxed out, even if they were demoed having kinect functionality grafted onto them.
What this move basically does is some developers probably went "the Kinect widget is there, might as well use it" to "eh, we don't have to support Kinect anymore. Let's take that overhead back and use it for something"
Yeah that's what I meant.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I actually do not believe that is the true reason, but i have more manners than to accuse you of being a liar. Ok, cool.
Hopefully, you are getting vital feedback on something that helps Xbox one owners enjoy their console. There is that at least.
It is gone. The only ports that won't be superior on PS4 are ones made by developers who are incompetent in some fashion.
But like you say:
Xbox fans did rub in the hardware superiority for two gens. And even though technically you could wrangle a bit more out of PS3 if you worked really hard at learning its complicated architecture, the reality was most Xbox 360 games looked a little better than the average PS3 game due to how difficult it was to make games for. And that was ceaselessly held over PS3 console owners heads, including by myself when I saw they were being disingenuous.
Thing is, Xbox fans should be happy when they see the way the community has reacted. All gamers should. It says we still have control of this industry and these companies still have to listen to us. Even if you LIKED the system they had originally for XBO, the market made it clear if they went that route, it would have been an epic flop. The pre-order numbers prior to the 180s were already showing that all indications were saying. So Xbox fans would have been stuck with a "vision", but not a successful console, which means less of everything including compelling exclusive content. And potentially Microsoft being less serious about competing in the videogame arena the next go, since there is some very complicated politics going on internally over there right now.
In the end, the result we have is best for everyone. Xbox One fans have to deal with their system being raked over the coals with relentless skepticism, because that's what Microsoft currently deserves. People keep telling us to move on after the 180s, but Microsoft's PR is still consistently in shambles and misleading, and they were still trying ridiculous gambits like trying to make it seem like XBO was actually competitive with PS4's hardware by fudging the analysis. All their apps remain behind a paywall, it's still a $100 premium for a device that won't even have a flagship game until Spring sometime and has virtually no new ideas or concepts revealed for it yet except perhaps Project Spark. There are plenty of reasons to still hold them with great skepticism.
m0dus is right that all companies should be viewed with skepticism, but I would say some have currently earned more skepticism than others, and that would naturally reflect in conversations. Moreover, since these deceptions and PR wonkiness continues at Microsoft, it's not something we have completely got past yet.
It's a cycle.
Nope, Double Helix isn't a first party studio. The only first party studio working on the Xbox One game for launch as far as I know is Turn 10. Capcom Vancouver (Dead Rising), Double Helix (Killer Instinct), Crytek (Ryse) are not first party. I'm curios what resolution Kinect Sports Rivals is running on, as that is done by Rare which is a first party MS studio.
WordsintheWater
Member
Cool, didn't know that. I associate Killer Instinct with Rare still haha