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[Northeastmonk]

IMO The Batman games can improve beyond on what they've been. Even if it's adding a few more skills and a batmobile. The thing about AC is that when it changes it doesn't go anywhere. Sure you can't compare worlds here. One is DC's Gotham versus Ubisoft's historical landmark. I think they could do something to revamp the AC series for good.

Ships aren't that alluding if you're staring at a sea of blue for 20 minutes.

 

[Welfare]

collectathon
repetitive
ambitious

Lol this was mine except replace ambitious with decent.

 

[T0KY0ST0MP]

One of the most annoying things in particular about ubi threads on gaf is the sheer amount of drivebys, false information, and blanket statements that get made. Meanwhile I support the things I say with video examples, gifs and pictures.
"Architecture is exactly the same. All AC games look the same"

"No it's not and no they don't here's why"

"Well you're just a fanboy anyway."

Everytime.


I never said that it was linear, I said that's not that comparable to Unity or Witcher 3, which are "worlds" instead of small-large levels like in TPP if the previews are to be believed at least. And i guess chopping off the intro to the game and charging 30-40 bucks for it doesn't count as a console release. And again, you're taking a very rare situation and using it as a metric for the industry, time and budgets exist, do you really think that 2015 was the original release date konami had in mind when kojima pitched them the project, most games do't even have the luxury of getting let alone being allowed to not say anything about the release date and delay it behind the scenes several times before deciding "the game is ready let's now announce a release date after saying this game." I can't imagine that he didn't go over budget. Also, define upgrading in real time, will we actually see the construction of motherbase in real time? Or will we select options and then see the changes in-game, because it's no different from what we've seen in Unity if that's the case. And I can't imagine working at Ubisoft and seeing comments like yours on neogaf that imply that you're passionless about your job because your teams are large amount to handle annual release dates. Its an incredibly toxic and misinformed mindset.

You respond directly to comments aimed at you and what you post but never respond to comments about the game generally. X reviewer said this about the game and there were these tech issues brought up by Y,
You completely ignore them and get on the defense of "I never said this".

You cannot honestly believe that AC/UBI games are so great in their vision that all is forgiven in their execution.

 

[fedexpeon]

That was a waste of time since I don't think they will read any of our responses.
It was just a PR attempt for us to watch the two trailers.
But hey, I hope they get the message that it is boring to play in the same Western culture and architecture over and over and over again, and that the series is slowly becoming a collectibles/collecting cans for money simulator.

 

[RootCause]

Gave my honest feedback on the game. The have so much they can improve on, but they choose to keep it the same, or they change things, but it behaves the same. They haven't done anything in recent years to deserve a $60 purchase.

 

[Crossing Eden]

You respond directly to comments aimed at you and what you post but never respond to comments about the game generally. X reviewer said this about the game and there were these tech issues brought up by Y,
You completely ignore them and get on the defense of "I never said this".

You cannot honestly believe that AC/UBI games are so great in their vision that all is forgiven in their execution.

Bullshit, did you see how the discussion went in this thread

general statements were made using small cherry picked screenshots

Or maybe i'm crazy, but to me it does looks very similar.

(well, the entire franchise looks the same, so....)

I refuted with multiple much larger screenshots

Yes they're going to reuse some assets for Syndicate but the architecture outside of cherry picked screens looks very different. SNIP

Arbitrary restrictions were made because the street doesn't count for city layout

Without this lamp, that landscape with buildings looks the same as the buildings in Unity. That's my point. They have the same structure.

I then showed off some gifs which give a good idea of the differences in architecture and atmosphere.

Another look at London

And then one of the highest points in Unity

False statement was made

One of the highest points in Unity (surrounded by some of the smallest buildings, most of them are two storey shacks).

The buildings around Notre Dame are not some of the smallest. My retort

The biggest building in Unity were the historical monuments, while a large majority were two or three story houses. There are larger buildings and huge areas but they're not the majority. One of the things that was directly stated (that we can see) is that the buildings in Syndicate are taller than the average buildings in Unity with much wider streets as well.

The reply was against a point that I denied in the first place.

I can guarantee the largest buildings in Syndicate will be the historical monuments as well

^ I never implied that this wasn't the case.

This continued until jlto left, and then you came in adding absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Came for Crossing Eden. Was not disappointed.

 

[fedexpeon]

Certainly more than enough to accuse them of copy paste or that they all look the same.

Eh, they do look the same.
99.93333% sure in the next AC game we will be climbing a rectangular European architectural styled building with a beam at the top for us to scan the environment and then leaping down to a hay stack.
I am also pretty sure we will go around pressing triangle to assassinate targets with our overused palm to the head animation for the hidden blade.
I mean, these are AC DNA. You should be proud that they are rehashing the same things so fans can feel familiar with their new game.
Open the map, see 100000000000000000000 useless objectives, feel at home.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Eh, they do look the same.
99.93333% sure in the next AC game we will be climbing a rectangular European architectural styled building with a beam at the top for us to scan the environment and then leaping down to a hay stack.
I am also pretty sure we will go around pressing triangle to assassinate targets with our overused palm to the head animation for the hidden blade.
I mean, these are AC DNA. You should be proud that they are rehashing the same things so fans can feel familiar with their new game.
Open the map, see 100000000000000000000 useless objectives, feel at home.

One, there will always be synchronization points on the map no matter the architecture, two, after unity this is the second game to have European architecture after four games in America and the Caribbean, three they made a completely new set of animations with Unity, some of which are being reused in Syndicate, so how are new animations overused exactly unless you're saying that we should no longer have the hidden blade. Four, if the hints are any indication, next setting might be very very different from Europe.

 

[fedexpeon]

One, there will always be synchronization points on the map no matter the architecture, two, after unity this is the second game to have European architecture after four games in America and the Caribbean, three they made a completely new set of animations with Unity, some of which are being reused in Syndicate, so how are new animations overused exactly unless you're saying that we should no longer have the hidden blade. Four, if the hints are any indication, next setting might be very very different from Europe.

1) Copy/Paste mechanic, it is in the AC DNA. Like I said, you should be proud of it since fans can feel familiar to the concept of synchronization and leap of faith plot element that link the whole series together.
2) America uses the same European architecture as well. Similar shape, similar roof top, similar balcony, similar door frame, ect.
3) The animation for the hidden blade is always the same. The animation for assassination with the blade is always the same as well. They still haven't improve this at all.
4) Cool, but we will still have more copy/paste bloated gameplay.

 

[partyboy]

I mean, aren't the problems with the AC games really obvious? To anyone? Ubi is a large company. Presumably they have some gamers on the dev teams. They should be able to point out the weaknesses in these games immediately. That's what makes this poll feel suspect.

I answered honestly, anyway. AC has a lot of potential but they're so goddamn lazy with it.

 

[Abdul Hafeez]

My three words:

1) Stale
2) Shallow
3) Superficial

(I realize 2 and 3 are basically the same, but I liked the alliteration)

 

[Crossing Eden]

1) Copy/Paste mechanic, it is in the AC DNA. Like I said, you should be proud of it since fans can feel familiar to the concept of synchronization and leap of faith plot element that link the whole series together.
2) America uses the same European architecture as well. Similar shape, similar roof top, similar balcony, similar door frame, ect.
3) The animation for the hidden blade is always the same. The animation for assassination with the blade is always the same as well. They still haven't improve this at all.
4) Cool, but we will still have more copy/paste bloated gameplay.

1)The concept is the same but it feels a whole lot different when buildings are as large as this

Yes I enjoy doing this part of the series.

2)American architecture is certainly not the same as London, then there's the whole frontier, like how you ignored the Caribbean btw, which included Havanna, fishing villages and islands, still, the scale of previous games doesn't hold a candle to Unity of Syndicate in terms of density and building scale. Which adds a lot to the atmosphere and believability of the game. Like in the above gif. Then there's areas like Venice or Constantinople.
3)This statement is just bullshit, a mini history lesson on the animation of the series.

Here's every single kill animation from the Ezio saga. Revelations had every animation that had been used in the games.
Ezio Era:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEdsccgOPJY

Engine change between revelations and 3, aside from some key animations the majority of animations were completely new for the era and new character. Old ones were adjusted. Contextual animations were added as well with environmental kills now being a factor. Videos of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4D1DU5YtPA

All subsequent games and spinoffs before Unity's released reused adjusted versions of the animations from the above while adding ones on top that were more appropriate for the character

Edward
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ3BI_f1KJo

Adewale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osKV_smfYqE

Again with Unity, next gen consoles, new time period(s) and European location, a VERY modified version of the engine, etc so new animations were made with the absolute minimal amount of reuse. (I've counted less than ten reused animations for Arno) Which can be seen here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxTV8CmC9ro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5-RTpUJpo4

So far Syndicate has a lot of reuse from Unity when it comes to the walk cycle, but, i'm hesitate to say think that those are final. Based on pre-alphas/WIP videos of previous games they reuse animations as placeholders while new ones are being finished. Will see at E3 or gamescom if that's the case.

I hate hyperbole, and hate the notion that the animators were just transferring existing animations to new models. I didn't even touch on the fact that the same applies for parkour, npcs, the AI system etc, with an astound level of detail in Unity especially, Eurogamer did a really great article on it
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...d-unitys-bugs-lurks-a-surprisingly-human-game

4)Did you even play Unity? Aside from chests and animus fragments it most definitely wasn't bloated. It was very cohesive with it's side content. Bloated isn't the right word. And you'll have to point me to the crouching controls in previous AC games, I seem to have missed those, oh and the parkour down maneuvers, and manual cover system, and the interiors of 1/4th of the buildings without loading screens, oh and the ship gameplay in the Ezio games, or the huge crowds, open mission design, etc etc etc you see where i'm going with this. Point is stop blurting out statements and actually try backing up what you're saying with facts.

 

[Solaire of Astora]

You keep referring to new animations and art assets, but what about the gameplay itself? Do you honestly not feel it getting stale?

 

[Crossing Eden]

You keep referring to new animations and art assets, but what about the gameplay itself? Do you honestly not feel it getting stale?

Well since the discussion was about art assets and animations

One of the main reasons I think Unity was a great game was due to how much they changed or adjusted the game in every aspect. Some of my favorite changes.

-No longer were objectives and level design restrictive. Environments were much bigger and more varied, (there's an obvious reason most of the main missions take place around or inside the historical monuments which are 1:1 with life), so you had way more choices about how you wanted to approach and take out your target. It's astounding how you can see the way multiple people decide to take out an objective. The absolute best examples of this were the Blackbox missions. Optional objectives weren't just busy work but actually changed the mission and turned the tide in your favor leading to some pretty cool assassinations.

-Guard AI not only had better vision but was deadlier as well including snipers who could one shot you. Their difficulty depended on the region of the map you were in. So you had incentives to buy and upgrade new equipment to be able to take more damage, unlike say AC3 where you could use the tomahawk throughout the entire game and have no issues in combat compared to Unity where you'd be instakilled if you were still wearing the default outfit against say a five star enemy. Then you add in skill trees which add passive abilities or the fact that outfits weren't just armor but also had passive effects as well like more ammunition or the range of eagle vision on Arno's master hood compared to the first set of hoods.

-Parkour especially was improved more than any other aspect, instead of being mainly vertical it allowed for smoother traversal in any direction, not only was getting up and down easier but going from side to side was much better as well, and then if you became good at it you could go diagonally. It felt much more fast paced and modern to have these options. So maneuvers like this --->http://gfycat.com/CreepyOddDuiker<---- weren't possible in previous games, even in you were good. The new system also created more of a skill gap between players.

Here's an early example of yours truly using the parkour in Unity

http://a.loveisover.me/syivmw.mp4

You can see the improvements in the parkour system compared to past games but it seems finicky.

Now let's fast forward to when I had a much better grasp on the system and incorporate manual jumping, downward parkour, and the flow between going inside and outside of buildings with ease compared to those who can't even figure out how the vaulting controls work. (ITS R2+O!)

http://a.loveisover.me/shzgnd.mp4

StealthgamerBr's videos do a good job of showcasing all of the above points. On top of that the fact that the atmosphere and attention to detail was some of if not the best i've ever seen in a video game city. Civilians had tons of little nuances and it really felt like you wear seeing a revolution and not just the rioting crowds, but how guillotines would actually run and have different npcs get taken up each time. Or this very very unsung feature

You could be walking and suddenly you hear a bunch of people singing in a cafe, you can walk in and see them all partying with individual animations. Just insane. Even down to the fact that couples associate with each other, if a couple is walking down the street, and you separate them, they will look around and seek each other out before locking arms again and continuing on their day. What other game has ever done this?

It was a joy to watch and a major step up from last games in every way. I feel that it's a very good direction for the series to take after the american saga and that more people will notice if they expand on the best aspects of unity with a more polished game. Which according to what i've read and seen in some ways so far, is the plan.

 

[UrbanRats]

We've had this debate before (probably more than once) but yeah, Unity had some really great ideas (honestly, ideas that as far as open world goes, only Phantom Pain seems to surpass) in the way it opened up the mission structure to you, and just let you do whatever the fuck you wanted (you know, the actual point of an open world, be creative).

Unfortunately, as i wrote on the survey, it was laid on inherently flawed and shitty gameplay mechanics.

Convoluted controls, abysmal latency, clunky stealth, horribly unresponsive (but incredibly punishing) combat.

Going around in Unity feels like you're controlling a hippo, and the times Arno bugged out around a corner, or wouldn't attach to the wall, and got me spotted, it just made for a terrible experience.
And the combat, good lord... don't go the way of Dark Souls with parries and 1hitKOs, if your character takes a week between input and execution, because you have, on top of terrible latency, stupidly long animations.
The most effective way to win every mission, was to just run in, spam smoke bombs, and attack everyone while they were coughing.

Again, some great large scale ideas, brought down and wasted on some of the worst controls and mechanics around.

Even fucking Shadow of Mordor has less problems with responsiveness.

They said they cut latency in combat for Syndicate, so maybe they noticed, after 50 years.

 

[Crossing Eden]

We've had this debate before (probably more than once) but yeah, Unity had some really great ideas (honestly, ideas that as far as open world goes, only Phantom Pain seems to surpass) in the way it opened up the mission structure to you, and just let you do whatever the fuck you wanted (you know, the actual point of an open world, be creative).

Unfortunately, as i wrote on the survey, it was laid on inherently flawed and shitty gameplay mechanics.

Convoluted controls, abysmal latency, clunky stealth, horribly unresponsive (but incredibly punishing) combat.

Going around in Unity feels like you're controlling a hippo, and the times Arno bugged out around a corner, or wouldn't attach to the wall, and got me spotted, it just made for a terrible experience.
And the combat, good lord... don't go the way of Dark Souls with parries and 1hitKOs, if your character takes a week between input and execution, because you have, on top of terrible latency, stupidly long animations.
The most effective way to win every mission, was to just run in, spam smoke bombs, and attack everyone while they were coughing.

Again, some great large scale ideas, brought down and wasted on some of the worst controls and mechanics around.

Even fucking Shadow of Mordor has less problems with responsiveness.

They said they cut latency in combat for Syndicate, so maybe they noticed, after 50 years.

Combat was slower than I would have liked, especially after playing the Witcher 3 which has a similar idea behind it, as in parrying, dodging, and attacking when given a chance. Although Witcher 3 has way faster fast attacks. One thing that I think a lot of people didn't know is that parry blended and cancel any animation. Which was a great idea. Another aspect is the pure advantage of using the manual controls, (and knowing not to hold the parkour up input that makes the parkour look super floaty because it's registering long jumps constantly). Instead of just holding the buttons when you feel it's appropriate, using manual inputs like tapping X while sprinting to jump forward or go down one level is where the parkour system shines. I wish they would've emphasized this instead of making it seem like just holding the buttons will get you the desired result.

 

[Sayers]

Didn't really have the time or energy to write an essay tearing the series a new one as it so richly deserves but what I did write was pretty critical. I made it pretty clear they have lost me as a fan and I won't be back without some monumental changes.

 

[fedexpeon]

1)The concept is the same but it feels a whole lot different when buildings are as large as this

Yes I enjoy doing this part of the series.

2)American architecture is certainly not the same as London, then there's the whole frontier, like how you ignored the Caribbean btw, which included Havanna, fishing villages and islands, still, the scale of previous games doesn't hold a candle to Unity of Syndicate in terms of density and building scale. Which adds a lot to the atmosphere and believability of the game. Like in the above gif. Then there's areas like Venice or Constantinople.
3)This statement is just bullshit, a mini history lesson on the animation of the series.

Here's every single kill animation from the Ezio saga. Revelations had every animation that had been used in the games.
Ezio Era:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEdsccgOPJY

Engine change between revelations and 3, aside from some key animations the majority of animations were completely new for the era and new character. Old ones were adjusted. Contextual animations were added as well with environmental kills now being a factor. Videos of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4D1DU5YtPA

All subsequent games and spinoffs before Unity's released reused adjusted versions of the animations from the above while adding ones on top that were more appropriate for the character

Edward
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ3BI_f1KJo

Adewale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osKV_smfYqE

Again with Unity, next gen consoles, new time period(s) and European location, a VERY modified version of the engine, etc so new animations were made with the absolute minimal amount of reuse. (I've counted less than ten reused animations for Arno) Which can be seen here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxTV8CmC9ro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5-RTpUJpo4

So far Syndicate has a lot of reuse from Unity when it comes to the walk cycle, but, i'm hesitate to say think that those are final. Based on pre-alphas/WIP videos of previous games they reuse animations as placeholders while new ones are being finished. Will see at E3 or gamescom if that's the case.

I hate hyperbole, and hate the notion that the animators were just transferring existing animations to new models. I didn't even touch on the fact that the same applies for parkour, npcs, the AI system etc, with an astound level of detail in Unity especially, Eurogamer did a really great article on it
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...d-unitys-bugs-lurks-a-surprisingly-human-game

4)Did you even play Unity? Aside from chests and animus fragments it most definitely wasn't bloated. It was very cohesive with it's side content. Bloated isn't the right word. And you'll have to point me to the crouching controls in previous AC games, I seem to have missed those, oh and the parkour down maneuvers, and manual cover system, and the interiors of 1/4th of the buildings without loading screens, oh and the ship gameplay in the Ezio games, or the huge crowds, open mission design, etc etc etc you see where i'm going with this. Point is stop blurting out statements and actually try backing up what you're saying with facts.

2) Yeah, I didn't mention AC: BF structures because it was difference enough from the other games. Why mentioned it when we were talking about uniqueness of architectures?

3) I watched 3 of the videos you posted. There was barely anything noticeable about it between the series. All it was just a bunch of pushing, stabbing and swinging a weapon into the body animation. Okay, there was some fancy jumping and slamming on the neck, but in the end the gameplay was still the same, either pressing triangle and square and watching the automatic action occurred. And once again, those hidden blade animations, same old same old, stab into the neck, stab into the head, stab into the chest. And can we stay on topic about the hidden blade? You didn't have to add about the walking animation discussion when we were talking about hidden blade animation.

4) Bloated is the right word. The more methods you can get to different barren spaces for useless contents and traveling to another empty and lifeless environment don't make the game better. 100 lifeless NPC that get in your way don't make their city exciting or full of life, they are NPC for a reason, useless. They are scripted with talking and walking...Nothing really unique about them. They will never response to you unless you murder someone in front of them or bump into them.
You might say all the movements they added into the system were great improvement, all I saw was another simple mechanic that came from other series or it was added to add another layer to their system that should have been in it in the first place. It wasn't a game changer, it was there so the gameplay can feel less awkward and the parkour movement can be more smoother.
And those missions, they barely added anything to the story. Only a handful of them were good and related to the history and assassination background, the rest was garbage about collecting more collectables.

We can discuss about this forever because we have a different set of viewpoint on the game. You might love these quests, I find them to be pointless. You think a big crowd make the game feels alive, I just see them as faceless and color coded NPC with barely any AI.
In the end, I know I am playing an AC game because I will know when I open up the map after 30mins of cutscenes, 90% of the markers are pointless contents. But nevertheless, you will tell me that they all have a purpose to introduce you to the AC series and its mechanic.

 

[Crossing Eden]

2) Yeah, I didn't mention AC: BF structures because it was difference enough from the other games. Why mentioned it when we were talking about uniqueness of architectures?

3) I watched 3 of the videos you posted. There was barely anything noticeable about it between the series. All it was just a bunch of pushing, stabbing and swinging a weapon into the body animation. Okay, there was some fancy jumping and slamming on the neck, but in the end the gameplay was still the same, either pressing triangle and square and watching the automatic action occurred. And once again, those hidden blade animations, same old same old, stab into the neck, stab into the head, stab into the chest. And can we stay on topic about the hidden blade? You didn't have to add about the walking animation discussion when we were talking about hidden blade animation.

4) Bloated is the right word. The more methods you can get to different barren spaces for useless contents and traveling to another empty and lifeless environment don't make the game better. 100 lifeless NPC that get in your way don't make their city exciting or full of life, they are NPC for a reason, useless. They are scripted with talking and walking...Nothing really unique about them. They will never response to you unless you murder someone in front of them or bump into them.
You might say all the movements they added into the system were great improvement, all I saw was another simple mechanic that came from other series or it was added to add another layer to their system that should have been in it in the first place. It wasn't a game changer, it was there so the gameplay can feel less awkward and the parkour movement can be more smoother.
And those missions, they barely added anything to the story. Only a handful of them were good and related to the history and assassination background, the rest was garbage about collecting more collectables.

We can discuss about this forever because we have a different set of viewpoint on the game. You might love these quests, I find them to be pointless. You think a big crowd make the game feels alive, I just see them as faceless and color coded NPC with barely any AI.
In the end, I know I am playing an AC game because I will know when I open up the map after 30mins of cutscenes, 90% of the markers are pointless contents. But nevertheless, you will tell me that they all have a purpose to introduce you to the AC series and its mechanic.

2)You also conveniently didn't mention any of the other cities, Venice feels a lot different from Florence for instance, and those are the same game, and then there's Constantinople.And then those feel completely different from Unity, which was pretty next level in terms of city simulation

3)You're an assassin, you're going to be doing a lot of killing, they're completely different animations, you said "the stabbing animation is the same." And there's a lot of nuance in the animations as well. Ezio for instance, you watch him and notice how much of a show off he is, almost as if he's having fun with it and coming up with new ways to look badass as he goes along. You watch Connor and notice the complete opposite, he's absolutely brutal, he's completely overwhelming his opponents with sheer force, even when outnumbered. Edward however, is rough, he's not showing but he's certainly feels like what happens when a pirate is wearing an assassin outfit. Then there's Arno, who's efficient and fits the whole "protege," he goes for the most efficient kill possible, so lots of neck stabbing, and aiming for the vital areas before the enemies knew what hit them. These are all things that they think about and try to get across, viewing it simply as "stabbing" is pretty disingenuous on your part. But then again you've been pretty disingenuous throughout this discussion. Especially in the next part.

4)You've been doing nothing but making blanket statements full of hyperbole. Wtf is this shit?

traveling to another empty and lifeless environment don't make the game better. 100 lifeless NPC that get in your way don't make their city exciting or full of life, they are NPC for a reason, useless.

Like are you kidding me? Even when presented links that make note about the attention to detail of Unity, including the crowd behavior and the dynamic nature of it that makes it feel way more alive than any game to date, you still think you can make statements like this. Yes they do respond to you, walk into them and they'll get angry, use parkour and they'll comment on the strangeness of it, throw money and they'll react which creates a distraction for guards, etc. All of your fourth points so far have made it incredibly transparent that you haven't played the game and are just coming up with whatever argument you think will be correct. Well that and your psn.

Spoiler

When I try to make accusations about a game I make sure i've played it for a while to get an actual grasp on it.

all I saw was another simple mechanic that came from other series or it was added to add another layer to their system that should have been in it in the first place.

I'd LOVE to know what game that was that apparently invented wall running or owns the concept of open world stealth via parkour btw. And barren spaces as well. You're incredibly misinformed.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

You keep referring to new animations and art assets, but what about the gameplay itself? Do you honestly not feel it getting stale?

That's the thing. Those animations and art are top of the industry stuff, if only Ubi could integrate them into more interesting gameplay systems.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

When I try to make accusations about a game I make sure it's a Ubisoft game and I've never played it

Spoiler

So says Prototype Viktor, the anti-Yves

 

[Solaire of Astora]

That's the thing. Those animations and art are top of the industry stuff, if only Ubi could integrate them into more interesting gameplay systems.

At this point, I'd just love them to take some time off and rip up the design document. They probably have a few more games in the works right now, with minor feature changes planned as part of their long term goals. I honestly can't understand why so many people still love these games and will settle for a slow treacle of new features/improvements. More power to them, I guess.

I just feel bad for all the artistic people working on these games. Some elements are great, but in my opinion, AC is a b-tier game wrapped up in a AAA budget.

Well since the discussion was about art assets and animations

But that's the thing: whenever I see you post in defense of ubisoft games, you always seem to go on about the art and animations, so I was curious to hear about your opinions on the gameplay.

As for unity, I admit that I haven't played it. After buying AC 1,2, brotherhood and 3 on day one, and borrowing a copy of black flag from my friend, along with playing far cry 3 and watch dogs, ubisoft have officially lost me as a customer until they make major changes to their game design.

Assassin's creed 2 blew me away back in the day, and shot into my top 10 gen 7 games, where it remains to this day. The game got it's hooks in me to the point where I ended up standing up my girlfriend at the time. I was full of hope for the future of the franchise, but since then, things have been going downhill in my opinion. UBI struck gold with AC2. It wasn't perfect in any way, but the leap in quality from AC1 was incredible. If only they could have kept that up.

I've watched several gameplay videos of unity, and aside from a few small improvements, it looked like the same old creed to me. I certainly wasn't going to give UBI the benefit of the doubt again. Not at $60, and certainly not in the state ubisoft saw fit to release it in.

I even doubt I would buy it at a bargain price. I played the much lauded Black flag and also found it overly familiar and full of tedium and ridiculous amounts of jank for a game of it's budget/team size. I can only guess that a lot of the praise comes from those so in love with the idea of being a pirate that they're prepared to overlook boring mission design and bloated filler content.

I guess what I would truly love, is a mix of AC, Arkham series, hitman and dishonored. The latter two give you an incredible amount of freedom in going about your assassinations, while batman's character controls are as smooth as the developer intends them to be.

 

[dosh]

That's the thing. Those animations and art are top of the industry stuff, if only Ubi could integrate them into more interesting gameplay systems.

Exactly. And even if the animations, assets and cities are indeed different from on AC to the next, the game itself always feels way too similar as a whole.

That's the things with AC: Ubi tweaks things, adds or removes other, improves some elements (stealth in Unity was surprisingly ok), creates insane locales (Paris was gorgeous), but in the end it still feels like the same game, over and over.

 

[Setsuna]

That's the thing. Those animations and art are top of the industry stuff, if only Ubi could integrate them into more interesting gameplay systems.

They have pretty much incorporated every gameplay system in every open world game into the Assassins creed series

Honestly what more can they do? Guild wars 2 jumping puzzles, Gta 5 character switching, Batman style detective work, San andreas territory control, Shadow of mordor management. Thats pretty much the only gameplay systems open world games have to offer these days and they were all added to Syndicate

 

[Crossing Eden]

At this point, I'd just love them to take some time off and rip up the design document. They probably have a few more games in the works right now, with minor feature changes planned as part of their long term goals. I honestly can't understand why so many people still love these games and will settle for a slow treacle of new features/improvements. More power to them, I guess.

I just feel bad for all the artistic people working on these games. Some elements are great, but in my opinion, AC is a b-tier game wrapped up in a AAA budget.



But that's the thing: whenever I see you post in defense of ubisoft games, you always seem to go on about the art and animations, so I was curious to hear about your opinions on the gameplay.

As for unity, I admit that I haven't played it. After buying AC 1,2, brotherhood and 3 on day one, and borrowing a copy of black flag from my friend, along with playing far cry 3 and watch dogs, ubisoft have officially lost me as a customer until they make major changes to their game design.

Assassin's creed 2 blew me away back in the day, and shot into my top 10 gen 7 games, where it remains to this day. The game got it's hooks in me to the point where I ended up standing up my girlfriend at the time. I was full of hope for the future of the franchise, but since then, things have been going downhill in my opinion. UBI struck gold with AC2. It wasn't perfect in any way, but the leap in quality from AC1 was incredible. If only they could have kept that up.

I've watched several gameplay videos of unity, and aside from a few small improvements, it looked like the same old creed to me. I certainly wasn't going to give UBI the benefit of the doubt again. Not at $60, and certainly not in the state ubisoft saw fit to release it in.

I even doubt I would buy it at a bargain price. I played the much lauded Black flag and also found it overly familiar and full of tedium and ridiculous amounts of jank for a game of it's budget/team size. I can only guess that a lot of the praise comes from those so in love with the idea of being a pirate that they're prepared to overlook boring mission design and bloated filler content.

I guess what I would truly love, is a mix of AC, Arkham series, hitman and dishonored. The latter two give you an incredible amount of freedom in going about your assassinations, while batman's character controls are as smooth as the developer intends them to be.

The feel of Unity definitely feels different from the american saga. I'd honestly have trouble with AC3-4 if i were to attempt to play them. And playing a game, and watching a game are two very different things. I tend to do the former before deciding whether or not a game is good. I most definitely enjoyed Watch Dogs as well since it lets you play however you want, which after coming out of Grand Theft Auto 5 was a god send, the much better movement system and gunplay certainly helped in that regard.

 

[Walpurgis]

Damn this thread got heated. I actually love the Assassin's Creed IP but I was very critical in the survey because they have so much unused potential. I look at what a bunch of homeless people in Poland bust their asses to make and compare it to what Ubisoft pumps out with 1000 devs and it just doesn't look good. They should focus more on meaningful and original content like side quests. I really loved Black Flag and would love it a lot more if I could have side quests with Blackbeard and Captain Kidd, expanding on their characters, etc. A good example of this is those Rosalina (sp? Ezio's girlfriend) missions in AC: Brotherhood. Also, after Assassin's Creed III, I've grown sick of the Assassin vs Templar story and never played the games for them. I find that it actually makes the historical settings less believable and takes me out of them. I would prefer more grounded stories in the future that focus on things that actually matter (i.e. not the assassin vs templar storyline).

 

[Zomba13]

Even their surveys are buggy. I can't have played any other game if I've played The Witcher 2.

EDIT: How would you rate these trailers:
Assassin&#8217;s Creed: Syndicate - Jacob Frye Trailer - 0/10 because the video is unavailable you idiots.

 

[cormack12]

I feel the series started the bloat process with Brotherhood and what should have been a title gimmick became mainstays in the series. Seriously who becomes an assassin to manage homesteads, naval trade routes, assassin training etc. It's trying to change itself into an action-RPG and elevate you to some sort of 'Thieves Guild' leader. While at the same time places you as an infinitesimally small part of a much grander story.

Counter attack combat became stale/repetitive and as a result boring. Even the more visceral finishers couldn't save it. The copy/paste of the game into different environments does not work. As soon as you entered colonial America, traversing buildings and structures of that height was never a feasible way of getting round the city. Guns - guns have no place in this franchise, even from when they introduced muskets. Not without significantly altering the rest of the gameplay.

I remember a mission at a party as Ezio where you had to move round, take out the guards with poison darts eventually assassinating the enemy and melting away. It was an amazing mission.

I played the beta for unity and the thing that switched me off instantly? Panning round and NPC's changing clothes etc. It's too distracting for me. They need to scale the game right down, and focus on making a tight, focused assassins experience. They're all about 'scale' and 'size'.

Also, this survey is pointless. Radio button surveys are fine for quick reporting but someone needs to do a complete assessment of while AC is failing. It's not something that can be rectified with a quick opinion piece with limited inputs. I doubt someone is going to read all these free text boxes, and if they do it looks like a large proportion add nothing and are just smart comments.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

They have pretty much incorporated every gameplay system in every open world game into the Assassins creed series

Honestly what more can they do? Guild wars 2 jumping puzzles, Gta 5 character switching, Batman style detective work, San andreas territory control, Shadow of mordor management. Thats pretty much the only gameplay systems open world games have to offer these days and they were all added to Syndicate

None of the systems are pretty involving. Add poor enncounter and mission design and it all becomes rather messy. As I said before, they can learn a lot from other games. Look to Blood Money for stealth, The Witcher for world building and quest design, Metal Gear for a systemic sandbox, Bloodborne for combat mechanics, the freedom of Dishonored etc. They don't need to copy it, but they do need to be more ambitious.

 

[BigDes]

Dunno how popular this would be but I said I wanted them to play around with the computer simulation aspect of the game more.

If the game is set in a simulated historical aspect then there is no need to stick with the perceived realism they have. Instead of having us playing an Abstergo employee have us playing a hacker stealing stuff from Abstergo databases with all the gameplay craziness that would imply.

I've had horse and carriage chases in AC games before.

What I haven't done is hacked a Ferrari into the game and gone mad etc

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Goddamn it, where's Mexico? Is Ubisoft one of those who thinks Mexico is part of South America?

No, seriously. Google "South America" and see if Mexico comes up there. Hint: it won't.

Either include us in North America, single us out or if you wanna group everyone south of the USA and be grammatically and geographically correct just call it "Latin America".

Christ!

 

[Solaire of Astora]

The feel of Unity definitely feels different from the american saga. I'd honestly have trouble with AC3-4 if i were to attempt to play them. And playing a game, and watching a game are two very different things. I tend to do the former before deciding whether or not a game is good. I most definitely enjoyed Watch Dogs as well since it lets you play however you want, which after coming out of Grand Theft Auto 5 was a god send, the much better movement system and gunplay certainly helped in that regard.

You seem to be focusing on things like movement mechanics. I'm talking about the game as a whole, including things like level/mission design. Things that can be seen from a gameplay video. And while I'm at it, dare I say you're cherry picking as well. Sure, watch dog's movement and gunplay was better than gta's, but what about the piss poor driving? What about the poor world building? What about the ambulance driving around in circles to create the illusion of a living, breathing world? What about the terrible characters? What about the same old game ideas being recycled from other ubisoft games? Nothing Ubisoft makes comes close to the games rockstar put out, and to focus on the one, single improvement while overlooking the fact that rockstar do everything else better... Well, let's just say I'm not surprised that you have that tag.

I'm not just tired of/disappointed in assassin's creed. I'm also tired of every open world game they make. And one GTA every five or so years is worth a hundred of these poorly executed, iterative efforts. And I'm not running a charity here. I've already given enough of my money to ubisoft. I don't need to give them more because "they promise things've changed". I'll give them another chance when enough people I trust tell me that things have actually changed.

They have pretty much incorporated every gameplay system in every open world game into the Assassins creed series

Honestly what more can they do? Guild wars 2 jumping puzzles, Gta 5 character switching, Batman style detective work, San andreas territory control, Shadow of mordor management. Thats pretty much the only gameplay systems open world games have to offer these days and they were all added to Syndicate

This right here is the problem. It's not about "what more they can add". It's about fixing the shit they have in the first place. This kitchen sink development philosophy is what is wrong with the game in the first place

 

[kvn]

Did the survey. Now I want Skyrim 2 and Red Dead Redemption 2.

 

[Darkstorne]

My three words:

1) History
2) Parkour
3) Stealth

I tried giving them useful feedback to get them back on track, rather than just saying "your game sucks" like a lot of people here seem to be opting for. I told them to stop looking at other successful games like Batman and the Witcher 3, trying to copy their mechanics into AC, and instead try to remember that THEY used to be the series everyone wanted to copy. Get back to focusing on historical accuracy, excellent parkour, and free form stealth gameplay, to create games as focused and iconic as Assassin's Creed 2.

They seem to have lost sight of all that. Syndicate is ludicrously historically inaccurate, with no obvious assassin/templar conflict, just a guy called Jacob who seems to be a bit of a dick and wants to be a gang boss. Open gang warfare like this DID NOT HAPPEN. They just crammed the Gangs of New York film into a London setting, because it looks kinda cool, and have forgotten everything Assassin's Creed used to stand for in the process.

 

[Ensirius]

The three words I used were:

History
Parkour
Combat

The second trailer was not available to watch, so I gave it a 5.

 

[Älg]

Everyone saying that all AC games are the same need to think about that for a second. I mean, there is a lot of criticism to be aimed at the AC franchise, but you have to commend Ubisoft for at least trying to do somethink fresh with the series every once in a while even though it's annualised.

Compare Black Flag with Unity and tell me that they are much alike.

Spoiler

I think one of the biggest problem with Gaf right now is that it's more or less impossible to properly discuss Ubisoft games, because there is so much unwarranted stigma surrounding everything Ubisoft produces.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

They need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[RPGam3r]

Since they were looking for games to copy, I told them to copy The Witcher 3. With their resources, they should be able to release that shit annually.

This is more or less what I said. Give AC more meaningful exploration, and add more RPG elements.

 

[Crossing Eden]

You seem to be focusing on things like movement mechanics. I'm talking about the game as a whole, including things like level/mission design. Things that can be seen from a gameplay video. And while I'm at it, dare I say you're cherry picking as well. Sure, watch dog's movement and gunplay was better than gta's, but what about the piss poor driving? What about the poor world building? What about the ambulance driving around in circles to create the illusion of a living, breathing world? What about the terrible characters? What about the same old game ideas being recycled from other ubisoft games? Nothing Ubisoft makes comes close to the games rockstar put out, and to focus on the one, single improvement while overlooking the fact that rockstar do everything else better... Well, let's just say I'm not surprised that you have that tag.

I'm not just tired of/disappointed in assassin's creed. I'm also tired of every open world game they make. And one GTA every five or so years is worth a hundred of these poorly executed, iterative efforts. And I'm not running a charity here. I've already given enough of my money to ubisoft. I don't need to give them more because "they promise things've changed". I'll give them another chance when enough people I trust tell me that things have actually changed.



This right here is the problem. It's not about "what more they can add". It's about fixing the shit they have in the first place. This kitchen sink development philosophy is what is wrong with the game in the first place

Again, things like level design is better experienced by being played, first hand experience regarding any subject is better than just watching a video. That includes the idea of good level design. How does this level play, you haven't played the game. So you wouldn't know compared to someone who actually has. Try to form your own opinion based on first hand experience. Oh and here we go with the rockstar comparisons. The incredibly scripted mission design in Rockstar games is terrible for replay value. And poor world building? Before Unity Watch Dogs was a great example of how to do an open world city with next gen tech. The civilians having conversations, seeing things like car crashes leading to arguments, the little snippets of life that we could see by viewing webcams, people playing the same minigames as you and playing with toys, all of that is a part of world building. And when you're game is an open world TPS game, you'd better be sure to make sure that the actual shooting mechanics and movement feel great instead of having ridiculous amounts of auto-aim and tons of animation priority.

Everyone saying that all AC games are the same need to think about that for a second. I mean, there is a lot of criticism to be aimed at the AC franchise, but you have to commend Ubisoft for at least trying to do somethink fresh with the series every once in a while even though it's annualised.

Compare Black Flag with Unity and tell me that they are much alike.

Spoiler

I think one of the biggest problem with Gaf right now is that it's more or less impossible to properly discuss Ubisoft games, because there is so much unwarranted stigma surrounding everything Ubisoft produces.

Don't you know that all European architecture is the same and there were no new animations and everything was literally copy paste. You also don't need to play games to have a valid opinion, just watch youtube videos, that tells you everything you need to know about how the gameplay actually feels. /s Concerning the "spoiler."

Spoiler

It's absolutely insane, drivebys and just general negativity and accusations of "You're a fanboy" are way too common in Ubi threads. How about, refute the points being made.

.

 

[texhnolyze]

Perhaps they should've release one AC game in two or three years instead of one.

 

[Toothless Spoon]

I have pretty much all the AC games and have not played one more than an hour. Whether it's the controls, or the bugs, or repetitive gameplay, I want to play the game, and I want them to be good, but I've played and enjoyed more games that are similar in nature, that just seem to do things better. The time period environments are the thing that suck me in every time, but that future story arch, is shit. I'd play AC: Unity, but man I HATE the pop-in on npcs walking around, it really kills my immersion - and it happens on every single one.

I took the time to provide as much constructive feedback that I can - whether that was REALLY what they were after, we'll see.

 

[Yasae]

They have pretty much incorporated every gameplay system in every open world game into the Assassins creed series

Honestly what more can they do? Guild wars 2 jumping puzzles, Gta 5 character switching, Batman style detective work, San andreas territory control, Shadow of mordor management. Thats pretty much the only gameplay systems open world games have to offer these days and they were all added to Syndicate

Higher depth of fewer systems. There's nowhere else left to go.

 

[Crossing Eden]

They have pretty much incorporated every gameplay system in every open world game into the Assassins creed series

Honestly what more can they do? Guild wars 2 jumping puzzles, Gta 5 character switching, Batman style detective work, San andreas territory control, Shadow of mordor management. Thats pretty much the only gameplay systems open world games have to offer these days and they were all added to Syndicate

Just noticed the end of your post.

 

[Steiner_Zi]

I thoroughly enjoyed giving them my ultra negative feedback.

 

[Yasae]

Combat was slower than I would have liked, especially after playing the Witcher 3 which has a similar idea behind it, as in parrying, dodging, and attacking when given a chance. Although Witcher 3 has way faster fast attacks. One thing that I think a lot of people didn't know is that parry blended and cancel any animation. Which was a great idea. Another aspect is the pure advantage of using the manual controls, (and knowing not to hold the parkour up input that makes the parkour look super floaty because it's registering long jumps constantly). Instead of just holding the buttons when you feel it's appropriate, using manual inputs like tapping X while sprinting to jump forward or go down one level is where the parkour system shines. I wish they would've emphasized this instead of making it seem like just holding the buttons will get you the desired result.

You're correct that parry in ACU blended very well. You could cancel practically any action, even finishers, and still parry.

The Witcher 3 is far less responsive in comparison because it has very little animation cancelling and/or blending. Once you make your choice, you're typically locked into that animation. Parrying also has a noticeable delay as Geralt raises his sword to deflect, and enemies can often lock you into a staggering animation with incessant, repeated strikes. Casting signs takes time. In a system where the enemies can move so quickly and jump so far, Geralt feels drastically less mobile. The only saving grace is his dodge move. And in comparison to ACU the responsiveness is simply worse across the board.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I'm so glad somebody fixed the title. I was so sick of looking at it.

 

[Markitron]

My 3 words were Stagnant, Stale and Potential.

When AC is good it's really good, but Unity was an abysmal boring mess of a game and Syndicate looks very similar so far.

I really want it to be good but I have no faith in it whatsoever

 

[Crossing Eden]

You're correct that parry in ACU blended very well. You could cancel practically any action, even finishers, and still parry.

The Witcher 3 is far less responsive in comparison because it has very little animation cancelling and/or blending. Once you make your choice, you're typically locked into that animation. Parrying also has a noticeable delay as Geralt raises his sword to deflect, and enemies can often lock you into a staggering animation with incessant, repeated strikes. Casting signs takes time. In a system where the enemies can move so quickly and jump so far, Geralt feels drastically less mobile. The only saving grace is his dodge move. And in comparison to ACU the responsiveness is simply worse across the board.

Both games generally go for realism. You're right that Witcher 3 doesn't seem to have any canceling mechanics and actions have a weight feel, which adds a certain degree of challenge. From what i've read people have had a lot of trouble with the pirouette.
This distance from an enemy will always have a pirouette style fast attack

I've generally gotten the grasp of how the combat works and which distances trigger which attack move, so i'm really enjoying the combat in W3. And yea monsters have a huge advantage in terms of their striking distance, some more than others....

Spoiler

Mothafucking drowners and neckers

One thing i'd love AC to incorporate is the normal dodge compared to the dodge roll, it feels really good in Witcher 3, although it doesn't have invincibility frames when you dodge compared to...pretty much every game with a dodge move(may be an upgrade for it but I need to double check). Maybe that would make a good replacement for counter kills. And to be as responsive as Witcher 3, fast attack is fast as hell.

And If the survey is to be believed I think they're bringing back the double takedown from AC3+4 or at least a new form of it. Think the trailer included it.

I'm so glad somebody fixed the title. I was so sick of looking at it.

I thought something was different.

 

[CHC]

Crossing Eden I'm not quoting any specific posts of yours because there are so many but overall I think your views on the series are much more honest than most. Often "honesty" is equated with "telling it like it is" angry criticism but I really don't think there is any denying that the AC series has become a tech marvel and that the foundations of its gameplay are solid. While I think a lot of the recent games have become stale, in large part because of their frequency and because of certain tropes that they will just not let go (the fucking hood!!), you can't write off AC as "bad games".

And anyone criticising the design of the worlds, the architecture, the animations, etc, either needs their eyes check or is just spouting hyperbole. I don't know how different colonial buildings from Western culture in the same century can possibly look but London =/= Paris =/= Boston =/= Havana by any stretch of the imagination.

AC has plenty of faults but dismissing it's visuals, animations, locations, general presentation - that's kind of ridiculous. If the next game (or the one after Syndicate) can hook me the way Black Flag did, I'll consider that a victory (no pun intended).

I'm so glad somebody fixed the title. I was so sick of looking at it.

Haha yessss definitely, it's not that hard to use the shift key and an apostrophe.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Crossing Eden I'm not quoting any specific posts of yours because there are so many but overall I think your views on the series are much more honest than most. Often "honesty" is equated with "telling it like it is" angry criticism but I really don't think there is any denying that the AC series has become a tech marvel and that the foundations of its gameplay are solid. While I think a lot of the recent games have become stale, in large part because of their frequency and because of certain tropes that they will just not let go (the fucking hood!!), you can't write off AC as "bad games".

Yes, cynicism is not the only form of honesty, especially when cynicism is used for blanket statements and hyperbole or just focusing on the negative aspects of something.