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[Biff]

Something happened along the way in American society when cops started acting like we're under martial law. It's no surprise that non-American are absolutely shocked at these policing attitudes and tactics.

Most police departments have the moniker To Protect and Serve, but now police departments have an almost antagonistic attitude to the base of tax payers that they purport to serve.

That antagonism seems to be documented everyday.

She antagonized the officer.

This situation went from:
1)a) best-case scenario of receiving a warning not to commit the crime (jaywalking) in the future
1)b) worst-case scenario of receiving a citation for something that could be fought in court

To:
2)a) best-case scenario of not receiving jailtime for assaulting a police officer
2)b) worst-case scenario of receiving jailtime for assaulting a police officer.

By committing the crime, she initiated Stage 1. She could have followed all police instructions, which were, quite simply, "Show me your ID." It would have completely avoided escalation to Stage 2. She made the decision not to comply, and therefore made the decision to force the officer to enforce additional rules, which unfortunately lead to Stage 2 after she further rejected compliance with those rules.

Dealing with a police officer is a completely path-dependent interaction, with rules (logic) imposed by your jurisdiction's applicable criminal code.

 

[SillyEskimo]

I dont care if the woman "broke the law"

Well then it's a good thing it's not your job.

 

[Kimawolf]

If you insist on going down that route, then present hard proof. In the video I saw, there didn't appear to be any observable racism at least. Do you have access to previous complaints made about this one particular officer that are shaping your opinion? As far as I can tell, your only argument is that he's a white officer and she's black so therefor it must be racially motivated.

its more than just "one officer" though, its a system that's sick and broken and encourages stopping and checking "people of color" more than their white counterparts. for instance in my city the attorney general admitted that if you're black, you have a 66% higher chance than your white counter part to be pulled over. he won't go as far as to claim "racial profiling" but its been admitted that KC police definitely profile in their stops.

Here is something for you to think on, maybe this will help you understand why people see such a thing and believe it's some kind of profiling going on

White people have a contraband hit rate of about 20 percent compared to 16 and a half percent for black people. However, white people have an arrest rate of nearly six percent, lower than that of black people at eight and a half. Simply put, white people are found to have illegal contraband on them more often than black people when they are pulled over by the police, but they are arrested less frequently when pulled over.

Looking deeper into the numbers, these disparities could be attributed elsewhere, though red flags of racial profiling would still exit. Attorney General Koster also looked at the search rate of drivers who have been pulled over. When white people were pulled over, their cars were searched about 7 percent of the time. Black people that were pulled over had their vehicles searched almost twice as often at nearly twelve percent of the time.

http://www.komu.com/news/missouri-attorney-general-reports-racial-profiling/

Read that bolded part really close and let it sink in. That's from the MO attorney general. not some anti police group cherry picking numbers. so there is a REAL issue going on that needs to be addressed.

So when I see a story about a woman being thrown in jail for jaywalking, yeah she may have been breaking the law, but it will definitely raise red flags to me. Was she being silly? yeah she should have cooperated and moved on, but it doesn't excuse how the situation was ultimately resolved, with her in handcuffs and in jail, and with a court system ready to charge her with everything they can think of.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Where at? Because I've never even seen nor heard of it even in a places like DC or NYC.

I was about to say, DC? Jaywalking doesn't even get a look from the police..not once in my 5 years have I ever seen anyone stopped. NYC as well..

 

[nateeasy]

Sorry for Jaywalking. I won't do it again. Go Sundevils!

 

[SillyEskimo]

I don't know if she thought she was going to talk her way out of it or what. She should have known black people aren't given the same leeway to "talk back" to a police officer in a situation like this. Guess she had to learn the hard way.

As a white male I can assure you the situation would've gone down the same for me if I did what she did.

But it would never happen to me because I use common sense and do whatever a police officer requests of me. Crazy, I know.

 

[IISANDERII]

If you insist on going down that route, then present hard proof. In the video I saw, there didn't appear to be any observable racism at least. Do you have access to previous complaints made about this one particular officer that are shaping your opinion? As far as I can tell, your only argument is that he's a white officer and she's black so therefor it must be racially motivated.

"Officer wait, before you do anything I need to search for hard proof that you're one of the good ones. I need access to previous complaints to know if I'm going to be brutalized."

 

[oxrock]

Usually there isn't blatant racism (i.e. use of derogatory words) with targeted police stops. That doesn't mean that racism wasn't a motivating factor. In this case, the street is clearly closed off (i.e. jaywalking was not creating a dangerous situation) and there were multiple people jaywalking around them. Which begs the question, why was she stopped?

The logic is flawed and biased though. " I don't know why he chose her instead of anyone else, because I don't know I'm just going to assert racism."

This isn't to say that I am in disbelief about racism existing. I am not ignorant of this, I am simply trying to differentiate between racism existing and it taking place in every single situation under the sun. A lack of a plausible working theory should not instantly direct one's thoughts and accusations towards racial prejudice despite there being any evidence on the matter. That mindset sets all accused on the task to prove a negative which is doomed to fail.

 

[theignoramus]

You made a generalization based on the skin color of the officer without any concrete evidence of racism in that arrest, what does that make you if not a prejudiced person?

I dont think you have to be prejudiced to believe the cop was acting in a cynical manner. He saw some uppity black woman committing a minor violation and jumped at the opportunity to put her in her place.
It's a pattern with police across the whole damn country.

 

[Dali]

She was definitely a bitch but the cops pulling some bullshit for trying to cite her for crossing the street in the first place. I feel like people should only worry about seeing the cops if they have or are committing a serious crime. Instead people are like "what kind of petty shit is this high school drop out gonna try to extort money out of me for... Oh fuck my seat belt isn't buckled."

 

[oxrock]

"Officer wait, before you do anything I need to search for hard proof that you're one of the good ones. I need access to previous complaints to know if I'm going to be brutalized."

Did the officer assume that the lady was "one of the bad ones?" Did he tackle and molest her indiscriminately despite her following all direction? I think not, your prejudice is not based in logic as one might assume.

 

[Daingurse]

I live in AZ, and I would have just showed my ID. Because I don't feel like getting the shit beat out of me. It's horseshit, but it's possible that this could have went better.

 

[rCIZZLE]

As a white male I can assure you the situation would've gone down the same for me if I did what she did.

But it would never happen to me because I use common sense and do whatever a police officer requests of me. Crazy, I know.

As a white male you'll be less likely to be in that situation. And if you do you'll definitely not feel frustrated that you were only targeted because of race.

 

[badb0y]

I cooperate with any law officer just to avoid shit like this. In fact most of the time the officers let me off the hook because I am so nice to them lol.

 

[SillyEskimo]

I dont think you have to be prejudiced to believe the cop was acting in a cynical manner. He saw some uppity black woman committing a minor violation and jumped at the opportunity to put her in her place.
It's a pattern with police across the whole damn country.

What makes her "uppity"? He was citing her before she declared what she does for a living.

Police put everyone in their place when they do not do what an officer asks them to do. White, black, or other. You always do what a police officer says. Preferably as fast as possible so you can both just get on with your day.

 

[JoeMartin]

what a bunch of black and white, binary BS. There's only one asshole in the situation and its the cop. I dont care if the woman "broke the law"

so the fuck what? Am I supposed to scold a Black woman for fighting back against some shithead cop who just wants to pick on a minority? Fuck that and fuck racist, shithead cops

Oh put it back in the deck. However high your saddle is on the "bullshit law" issue, you can't even begin to argue that after having his responsibility plainly explained to her (which was somehow interpreted as disrespectful) she:

• Refused orders in the conduct of an arrest.
• Physically resisted arrest.
• Assaulted the police officer.

At what juncture is any of that a good idea? Recalcitrance with an arresting officer is never a good idea, regardless of the circumstances. An arrest is not a debate - a police officer has to the best of his ability with the information on hand determined that you're in violation of the law; if you feel you've been wrongly arrested, argue your case IN A COURT OF LAW. And why is her being a professor being rattled off like its some kind of excuse for her behavior? If anything it makes it a more serious offense - she's educated and still chose to behave in a wholly unbecoming manner.

 

[entremet]

She antagonized the officer.

This situation went from:
1)a) best-case scenario of receiving a warning not to commit the crime (jaywalking) in the future
1)b) worst-case scenario of receiving a citation for something that could be fought in court

To:
2)a) best-case scenario of not receiving jailtime for assaulting a police officer
2)b) worst-case scenario of receiving jailtime for assaulting a police officer.

By committing the crime, she initiated Stage 1. She could have followed all police instructions, which were, quite simply, "Show me your ID." It would have completely avoided escalation to Stage 2. She made the decision not to comply, and therefore made the decision to force the officer to enforce additional rules, which unfortunately lead to Stage 2 after she further rejected compliance with those rules.

Dealing with a police officer is a completely path-dependent interaction, with rules (logic) imposed by your jurisdiction's applicable criminal code.

I would agree with you. It was more a general observation. She made it harder on herself.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

The police state is real. Comply or be slammed.

This isn't about her not doing as ordered. This is about a cop with horrific conflict deescalation skills.

There's no way someone should be slammed down like that over fucking jaywalking. Jaywalking. She was doing so due to construction blocking the road but this bully (and that's what he is) was having a bad day and needed to blow off some steam so he wanted to fuck with her.

He could have calmly explained to her and in turn listen and dialed the conversation down. It's not her job to know how to deal with police. It *IS* his job to know how to deal with people to deescalate a situation. Especially over something as petty as jaywalking.

"Ma'am, I'm just doing my job and I'll let you off with a verbal warning. Please be careful when crossing the street. Perhaps you could cross somewhere else" would have been all it takes.

But nope. Not for her. Cause he wasn't gonna have someone sass him.

Comply or get the pain stick.

 

[IISANDERII]

Did the officer assume that the lady was "one of the bad ones?" Did he tackle and molest her indiscriminately despite her following all direction? I think not, your prejudice is not based in logic as one might assume.

Your argument is based on too many assumptions.

 

[theignoramus]

She was definitely a bitch but the cops pulling some bullshit for trying to cite her for crossing the street in the first place. I feel like people should only worry about seeing the cops if they have or are committing a serious crime. Instead people are like "what kind of petty shit is this high school drop out gonna try to extort money out of me for... Oh fuck my seat belt isn't buckled."

I didnt even know the sex of the professor before I entered the thread, but I knew he/she was a minority and I dont think that fact is a coincidence.

 

[BSsBrolly]

The police state is real. Comply or be slammed.

This isn't about her not doing as ordered. This is about a cop with horrific conflict deescalation skills.

There's no way someone should be slammed down like that over fucking jaywalking. Jaywalking. She was doing so due to construction blocking the road but this bully (and that's what he is) was having a bad day and needed to blow off some steam so he wanted to fuck with her.

He could have calmly explained to her and in turn listen and dialed the conversation down. It's not her job to know how to deal with police. It *IS* his job to know how to deal with people to deescalate a situation. Especially over something as petty as jaywalking.

"Ma'am, I'm just doing my job and I'll let you off with a verbal warning. Please be careful when crossing the street. Perhaps you could cross somewhere else" would have been all it takes.

But nope. Not for her. Cause he wasn't gonna have someone sass him.

Comply or get the pain stick.

She wasn't slammed for jaywalking. She was slammed for resisting arrest. I just dont understand... Why the fuck wouldn't you just show your ID?

 

[adamsappel]

Pick up that can.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Wait, you have to show ID if a cop demands it or you get arrested? What if you don't have an ID? What if you just don't have a driver's license? What if you just left your wallet at home that day?

 

[BSsBrolly]

Wait, you have to show ID if a cop demands it or you get arrested? What if you don't have an ID? What if you just don't have a driver's license? What if you just left your wallet at home that day?

Then tell them that. Don't do what this woman did.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

Wait, you have to show ID if a cop demands it or you get arrested? What if you don't have an ID? What if you just don't have a driver's license? What if you just left your wallet at home that day?

I think this is a law in Arizona? Correct me if I'm wrong AZ-Gaf.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

She wasn't slammed for jaywalking. She was slammed for resisting arrest. I just dont understand... Why the fuck wouldn't you just show your ID?

The issue isn't why wouldn't she just show her ID like a good little girl.

The issue is she shouldn't have been stopped in the first place.

The issue is construction was blocking the street. She crossed...an empty street.

The issue is the officer isn't doing anything to calm this lady down and just respectfully explain why it's an issue. It's just comply or I'll arrest you.

The issue is why wouldn't a trained law enforcement officer learn some fucking conflict resolution skills to actually take a moment to talk to the person who is actually shocked they're being ticketed over a trivial incident that's harming no one.

There were better ways to handle it on both sides. No doubt. But him being the TRAINED professional entrusted with authority and power by the people I kinda think the burden should be more on him.

 

[theignoramus]

At what juncture is any of that a good idea? Recalcitrance with an arresting officer is never a good idea, regardless of the circumstances. An arrest is not a debate - a police officer has to the best of his ability with the information on hand determined that you're in violation of the law; if you feel you've been wrongly arrested, argue your case IN A COURT OF LAW. And why is her being a professor being rattled off like its some kind of excuse for her behavior? If anything it makes it a more serious offense - she's educated and still chose to behave in a wholly unbecoming manner.

people can act in an "unbecoming manner" with cops when they feel there's racial bullshit at play. I dont blame the woman at all for going Henry Louis Gates on this cop. she made a tactical error getting physical though. She should have taken her citation, then planted herself in that location to see if any other "jaywalkers" got accosted on that trivial bullshit

 

[Dali]

I didnt even know the sex of the professor before I entered the thread, but I knew he/she was a minority and I dont think that fact is a coincidence.

There was a similar incident that we had a thread for with a white female jogger. The only coincidence is both people getting (rightfully) pissed at the cops being petty assholes.

 

[BSsBrolly]

The issue isn't why wouldn't she just show her ID like a good little girl.

The issue is she shouldn't have been stopped in the first place.

The issue is construction was blocking the street. She crossed...an empty street.

The issue is the officer isn't doing anything to calm this lady down and just respectfully explain why it's an issue. It's just comply or I'll arrest you.

The issue is why wouldn't a trained law enforcement officer learn some fucking conflict resolution skills to actually take a moment to talk to the person who is actually shocked they're being ticketed over a trivial incident that's harming no one.

Valid points, cops are pricks. However, isn't that common knowledge? Why would you refuse orders from a cop, knowing full well they can (and will) do this? This lady was irrational, the cop warned her multiple times. She refused and learned the hard way what happens.

I don't feel bad for her in the slightest.

Edit: I should also add; yes the reason he stopped her was petty and stupid but her reaction to it made all of it worse.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Valid points, cops are pricks. However, isn't that common knowledge?

That fact that it's common is a core part of the problem.

Why would you refuse orders from a cop, knowing full well they can (and will) do this? This lady was irrational, the cop warned her multiple times. She refused and learned the hard way what happens.

I don't feel bad for her in the slightest.

That fact that it's accepted is a core part of the problem.

 

[Carnby]

I was once cuffed and detained for walking to my car. I just happened to be walking in an area where a suspect was last seen. I was insulted and screamed at the whole time. I didn't like it but I complied. It's just easier to cooperate. If I fought, I would have had charges, even though they had the wrong guy.

 

[poppabk]

So, you're saying you would let police anally penetrate you repeatedly and force you to take multiple enemas?

1.6 million dollars or go to jail? Tough choice.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Edit: I should also add; yes the reason he stopped her was petty and stupid but her reaction to it made all of it worse.

I get what you're saying but at the end of the day he's the trained professional that failed to treat a normal citizen with respect. And of course, once the cop says "Turn around and put your hands behind your back" you shut up and comply. You can NOT win there on the street. You unfortunately gotta shut up and settle it in court.

But the fact that we as a society are so quick to accept police abuse of authority is the reason why we're slowly shifting to a police state. Then when cops really go too far and do crazy shit we all gasp and act outraged when we SHOULD have been outraged from the start and over smaller incidents like this.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

What are these requirements?

In Europe you have to fill out the necessary paperwork, pay a fee (over here it is around 50 euros for a passport or an I.D issued by the police) and that's that. I can understand the difficulties related to travel distances and so on though.

Still think the lady would've gotten off with a warning had she not escalated the situation. She has an academic background and one would assume people in her position would know how to deal with different people.

Same here then. Getting a state ID is like $20-25.

 

[J.ceaz]

I can't believe anyone is actually arguing that the professor was somehow wrong here. I literally can't believe it. The police officer basically used a bullshit reason to stop and assault this woman and people here act like we should just deal with it. Fucking pathetic.

 

[poppabk]

The issue isn't why wouldn't she just show her ID like a good little girl.

The issue is she shouldn't have been stopped in the first place.

The issue is construction was blocking the street. She crossed...an empty street.

Do we see this? I can't watch the video on mobile.

 

[jimi_dini]

I can't believe anyone is actually arguing that the professor was somehow wrong here. I literally can't believe it. The police officer basically used a bullshit reason to stop and assault this woman

wat

 

[Dali]

I was once cuffed and detained for walking to my car. I just happened to be walking in an area where a suspect was last seen. I was insulted and screamed at the whole time. I didn't like it but I complied. It's just easier to cooperate. If I fought, I would have had charges, even though they had the wrong guy.

Same here. I was "detained" because a gas station was robbed. They put me in custody and drove me across the street where some old guy with glasses thankfully gave them the thumbs down. It's scary how fragile one's freedom is. Since then I've looked at these assholes with a sideways glance of mistrust.

 

[Kusagari]

Cop was being a prick and escalates a situation that started because he had nothing better to do than heckle someone for "jaywalking."

Just more proof that police can get away with anything.

 

[J.ceaz]

wat

He grabbed her and tackled her to the ground for crossing the street. Fuck him and his shin.

 

[richiek]

wat

Forcefully grappling a person and slamming her to the ground is not considered assault?

 

[BSsBrolly]

He grabbed her and tackled her to the ground for crossing the street. Fuck him and his shin.

That is not why he grabbed her or why he tackled her. Her actions after he stopped her were the reason those things happened.

 

[jimi_dini]

He grabbed her and tackled her to the ground for crossing the street. Fuck him and his shin.

No he didn't. There is a video, you know. Watch it.

He slammed her on the ground, because she physically resisted arrest. He arrested her, because she didn't comply in showing an ID and instead tried to argue about the law and mumbled something about being a professor ("Do you know who I am"), which was a completely silly thing to do.

 

[David H Wong]

I can't believe anyone is actually arguing that the professor was somehow wrong here. I literally can't believe it. The police officer basically used a bullshit reason to stop and assault this woman and people here act like we should just deal with it. Fucking pathetic.

Yes you should be able to assault police officers at will, and they should just have to take it. Makes perfect sense.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

"Don't you know who I am?" or variations of it, has never been a good defense.

 

[David H Wong]

No he didn't. There is a video, you know. Watch it.

He slammed her on the ground, because she physically resisted arrest. He arrested her, because she didn't comply in showing an ID and instead tried to argue about the law and mumbled something about being a professor, which was a completely silly thing to do.

Yeah, lot of teenagers in here. "If I get caught breaking the law, I should have the right to physically attack the officer, because the law is BULLSHIT, man!!!"

 

[rCIZZLE]

That is not why he grabbed her or why he tackled her. Her actions after he stopped her were the reason those things happened.

How dare her ask for an explanation. She should just shut up and comply or be forcefully arrested.

 

[MWS Natural]

As a white male I can assure you the situation would've gone down the same for me if I did what she did.

Not sure if your are serious or trolling but there are too many videos online that show just the opposite.

 

[richiek]

Yes you should be able to assault police officers at will, and they should just have to take it. Makes perfect sense.

The cops used force on her first. After she's cuffed, she supposedly kicks one of them (like that supposed to do any damage).

 

[BSsBrolly]

How dare her ask for an explanation. She should just shut up and comply or be forcefully arrested.

He tried to explain, she wouldn't listen.