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Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers

Are you for real? They make the money back by people who are going to buy the Xbox One for the NFL deal. Those people are most likely going to buy a game or two and pay for XBL Gold. I see plenty of ways to get their money back( without selling peoples data). How do you think that Sony covers their €/$60 loss on every PS4 sold? Both MS and Sony invest money to get people to buy their platforms. And when people have bought those platforms there's a big chance that they will spend more money on said platform. Think a little here will ya.

You can unplug the Kinect and just like with the playstation you'll need to opt-in for things like data gathering (voice for example).

You're not mentioning the fact that MS places advertisement on their Xbox dashboard. If you're going to be so critical of his post then you should know by now that when it comes to online marketing and advertisement, data collected on consumers is a very effective method of delivering targeted advertisement. So his assumption isn't as far fetched as you make it out to be. And MS wouldn't be the first company to use these methods. Pretty much everybody does it.
 

Cuyejo

Member
"For example, consider a typical game scenario where the render target is 32bpp [bits per pixel] and blending is disabled, and the depth/stencil surface is 32bpp with Z [depth] enabled. That amount to 12 bytes of bandwidth needed per pixel drawn (eight bytes write, four bytes read). At our peak fill-rate of 13.65GPixels/s that adds up to 164GB/s of real bandwidth that is needed which pretty much saturates our ESRAM bandwidth. In this case, even if we had doubled the number of ROPs, the effective fill-rate would not have changed because we would be bottlenecked on bandwidth. In other words, we balanced our ROPs to our bandwidth for our target scenarios. Keep in mind that bandwidth is also needed for vertex and texture data as well, which in our case typically comes from DDR3."

I don't fully understand this part, what they are saying is that having 32 ROPs is waste because, anyway, the eSRAM bandwidth can barely handle 16 ROPs?
So, does this means the PS4 has a bandwidth bottleneck?
Can someone explain?

Can somebody shed a light on this?
 
Well...gotta deflect.

Yeah I suppose he really does

Sadly his list of Xbox One martyrs is poorly conceived

He just copied the list of all members banned in the balanced thread (or was it from the edge article thread?)

But regardless the list including people like bleachandpepsi who were pro sony but banned for other things lol

Can somebody shed a light on this?

Fairly certain that's a XB1 problem and not a PS4 problem due to the PS4's GPU being far more capable in more ways than just significant FLOP advantage

Where is nib and his spec comparisons when you need him?
 

jaypah

Member
WORD!


I do not agree on that we need to stop talking about it yet. MS tried to ruin the entire gaming world by banning used games and forcing shit down our throats just to make more fucking money and gimping the console for gamers. Thank god for Sony, that showed everyone that they are not an evil company trying to ruin the way we like to play our games. If gamers dont stick up for what they want from a product, then we will get run over and forced to pay for gimped shit that we dont really want. This apply to every market out there, and some markets are so fucked up its sad. just look at Cable TV, we are forced to pay for 50 channels that we dont even fucking watch, just to get the ones we want to watch. This way of running things should be fucking illegal. That is why I dont have cable anymore. fuck that shit I watch films and tv shows online they way I want it to.

Companies are be our bitch, and not vice versa. We take advantage of them, they dont take advantage of us.

What does this have to do with the idea that MS should stop talking about specs? You kind of went off the map there.
 

Jack_AG

Banned
I'm still here, reading with great interest. I stated very publicly I wasn't going to chime in on these posts, but I read them.

When I see a question, I still try to answer if I can.

At this point, most everything is known about the system so the need for me to post is reduced - it was more interesting back when we weren't being very clear on some points.

Just the fact that we're 2 months from launch means there's less for me to say. But I'm around.
I'll bite.

Have you guys considered streamlining your "message" for the XB1? I'm not going to tell you whoever is making the PR calls should be drawn and quartered... But demoted or at least made to pay attention to the industry is a good start. Not trying to be an ass - but you guys are all over the place like this IS your first rodeo. As someone watching with interest, I find it hard to bite on one thing since its quite apparent the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing here.

Thoughts?
 

Barzul

Member
If Microsoft is dead set on always having Kinect included, I don't see how they can ever make the system affordable to the mainstream. When the Xbox One goes down to $399, Sony will likely be able to go down to $299. When the Xbox One can finally go down to $299, the PS4 will likely be able to go down to $199.

The PS3 had a price issue at first, but it got rid of it and that is what helped it outsell the 360 worldwide. In the US, a PS3 is now cheaper than a 360. I don't see how the box One with Kinect will ever be cheaper.

And don't suggest that subsidized option. That option is not appealing as long as the PS4 is cheap enough.
So PS3 could get rid of its price issues, but the Xbox One can't?
 
Ya Bruh!! I got banned FOR A MONTH for "working too hard" when an article came out that was anti xbox one because the writer of said article said the then "always online" thing would prevent him from taking his xbox one to a cabin. I went a bit nuts at that and was banned. That ban assumed I was working for MS, when in reality, NONE of MS' policies bother me or will affect me in the slightest and I wanted to voice that opinion. NOPE!!, can't do that, I'm a shill. GAF is pro SONY, the mods support it, and could it be that some of the advertisers of this site are also pro SONY and the mods are directed to act accordingly? Oh, perish the thought! One of the running jokes about GAF is no one knows why or for what reason you can be banned. A mod having a bad day...BAN. Not politically correct...BAN! Pro MS posts...you get the idea.

And I'm sure you have been perma banned now. It's not hard, 10s of thousands of people have made it to member status, the vast majority of them having never been temp banned. I love the fact that other websites make these ridiculous claims about GAF, this website has some of the best moderation around. Just compare this place to gamefaqs, or IGN boards. They are 100x worse. Just look at your damn post if you're still lurking. I could tell you would be in trouble as soon as I read it. The rules are on the front page, it's nobodies fault but yours that you didn't read them.
 
Wait, you say you were not co-ordinated and then go on to admit exactly that (I give him a headsup out of "respect") ..

This is hilarious.

I believe he's saying that it wasn't "coordinated" in the sense that it wasn't a departmental mandate for them to go out and push these specific talking points, and they didn't plan in advance on how they were going to do so. A courtesy call ("Heads up, I just posted flamebait on GAF so your twitter's gonna blow. LOL!") is pretty obviously different from a previously arranged course of action ("Today, let's post flamebait on GAF to get your twitter to blow up so we can funnel those views into the new Digital Foundry puff piece.").

That's the most that's been asked of him: that he not use his account here to shamelessly post PR copy as if it were the Microsoft Facebook page. There's nothing wrong with him keeping his co-workers informed of his comings and goings here, as his leave to post here is almost certainly predicated on such.
 
You completely missed my point by getting upset by the word.
I was agreeing that the government will indeed do anything to get info on you if they really want to. I agree with you, and him, on that.

My use of conspiracy was in regards to "what next". If you stop using closed source software, you stop using mobile phones, there is still information out there that they can access to spy on you. Where do you stop worrying?

The only solution to stop the government spying is for them to stop spying.

lol I kind of went on a rant there, didn't I?
 

Bsigg12

Member
If Microsoft is dead set on always having Kinect included, I don't see how they can ever make the system affordable to the mainstream. When the Xbox One goes down to $399, Sony will likely be able to go down to $299. When the Xbox One can finally go down to $299, the PS4 will likely be able to go down to $199.

The PS3 had a price issue at first, but it got rid of it and that is what helped it outsell the 360 worldwide. In the US, a PS3 is now cheaper than a 360. I don't see how the box One with Kinect will ever be cheaper.

And don't suggest that subsidized option. That option is not appealing as long as the PS4 is cheap enough.

You act like there will always be a $100 dollar difference. By making the Kinect 2.0 a pack in with every system, you benefit from having a massive production quantity. We also don't know what the line is for Microsoft on each sale of the Xbox One. We know that Sony is losing money on the PS4 initially but will be made up with game sales. I have not seen a single comment on the projected cost of the Xbox One. Neither system are using super custom and crazy tech like the CELL so the overall cost for each system for both companies will drop much quicker this time around.

The PS3 (12gb) and the 360's (4gb) lowest price when not on sale is $200, so that's a wash. Microsoft doesn't need the Xbox One to be cheaper down the line, it needs to just be the same as the PS4 and still offer the Kinect.
 
So PS3 could get rid of its price issues, but the Xbox One can't?

The ps3 got rid of its price issues by stripping out BC hardware, and losing extraneous hardware like card readers, extra usb ports, and SACD capability. Even after all that its still significantly more expensive than a 360.

MS doesnt HAVE any extraneous hardware or BC to remove, unless you count Kinect. Since the ps4 and xbone are built using the same platform, any cost reductions re:cpu or gpu to the Xbox will also apply to ps4. In addition, MS is using a very complicated setup for that ESRAM that's hard to fabricate.
 
So PS3 could get rid of its price issues, but the Xbox One can't?
I don't think they can if they keep Kinect in the box for good.



You act like there will always be a $100 dollar difference. By making the Kinect 2.0 a pack in with every system, you benefit from having a massive production quantity. We also don't know what the line is for Microsoft on each sale of the Xbox One. We know that Sony is losing money on the PS4 initially but will be made up with game sales. I have not seen a single comment on the projected cost of the Xbox One. Neither system are using super custom and crazy tech like the CELL so the overall cost for each system for both companies will drop much quicker this time around.

The PS3 (12gb) and the 360's (4gb) lowest price when not on sale is $200, so that's a wash. Microsoft doesn't need the Xbox One to be cheaper down the line, it needs to just be the same as the PS4 and still offer the Kinect.
And I'm saying I don't think that will ever happen. Maybe I'll be wrong about it, but I doubt it. Your PS3/360 example doesn't work. The cheapest 360 with Kinect is still $300. The cheapest PS3 is $200.



The ps3 got rid of its price issues by stripping out BC hardware, and losing extraneous hardware like card readers, extra usb ports, and SACD capability. Even after all that its still significantly more expensive than a 360.

MS doesnt HAVE any extraneous hardware or BC to remove, unless you count Kinect. Since the ps4 and xbone are built using the same platform, any cost reductions re:cpu or gpu to the Xbox will also apply to ps4. In addition, MS is using a very complicated setup for that ESRAM that's hard to fabricate.

The PS3 is cheaper/equal to the 360. They both have the same bottom tier price of $200. 360s with a harddrive are $300. PS3s with a hard drive of identical or greater capacity are $250-$300. These PS3 systems also come with product as well. A 500 GB PS3 with GTA is $270. A 250 GB PS3 with Uncharted 3 and a year of PS+ is $250.
 
Albert Penello,

MS have been very open about the specs of the system but there are rumor MS is hiding a lot of the gpu power. For example there are rumors about another gpu or part of the gpu power is gated off to be unlock down the road. I know you said on twitter there is no second gpu. The rumor is the xbone total gpu power is 3.2Tf.

Yes, its in the form of unicorn tears stored in a vile next to the esram. The vile will be remotely broken during the third year of the console's life cycle, at which point the tears will spill evenly over the esram causing it morph into esxxxxxxramZ. This in turn will cause the GPU bandwidth to skyrocket to 777 Teraflops/s.

Major Nelson confirmed this, will post link soon.
 

GodofWine

Member
this sonygaf stuff is certainly creative...as a ps3 owner I spent the last 6 years playing the bad version (actually they were fine) of every multi plat, playing online using an online service that apparently sucked (it was great) , using a controller that you needed baby hands to hold (i dont have baby hands), was without online chat (hah), and nobody ever played online (except for the 500,000+ concurrent users online at any time).

SonyGaf it is not. It is gaming gaf and whoever is wearing the crown is treated like the king.
 

Bsigg12

Member
I don't think they can if they keep Kinect in the box for good.




And I'm saying I don't think that will ever happen. Maybe I'll be wrong about it, but I doubt it. Your PS3/360 example doesn't work. The cheapest 360 with Kinect is still $300. The cheapest PS3 is $200.

You didn't specify the 360 with Kinect. The hardest part of the manufacturing of the Kinect fo the Xbox On is the cost of the onboard chip, which Microsoft is doing in house. This will help costs drop significantly the farther we get into the generation. Again, by having the Kinect bundled with every system from the start, the costs for adding it drop much quicker than when adding it near the end of a console's cycle.
 
I don't think they can if they keep Kinect in the box for good.




And I'm saying I don't think that will ever happen. Maybe I'll be wrong about it, but I doubt it. Your PS3/360 example doesn't work. The cheapest 360 with Kinect is still $300. The cheapest PS3 is $200.





The PS3 is cheaper/equal to the 360. They both have the same bottom tier price of $200. 360s with a harddrive are $300. PS3s with a hard drive of identical or greater capacity are $250-$300. These PS3 systems also come with product as well. A 500 GB PS3 with GTA is $270. A 250 GB PS3 with Uncharted 3 and a year of PS+ is $250.

I agree with you on these points, everything about the ps4 is cheaper except for its GDDR5 memory which in 3+ years time will be significantly cheaper. Can the xbone produce a cheaper APU+ESRAM compared to the PS4's APU? Will DDR3 prices fall in line with GDDR5 in the sense that how much more can ddr3 fall in price compared to gddr5. Personally I think as long as the kinect is bundled with the xbone, you will never see the xbone cost less than $50 more than the ps4.
 
You didn't specify the 360 with Kinect. The hardest part of the manufacturing of the Kinect fo the Xbox On is the cost of the onboard chip, which Microsoft is doing in house. This will help costs drop significantly the farther we get into the generation. Again, by having the Kinect bundled with every system from the start, the costs for adding it drop much quicker than when adding it near the end of a console's cycle.

I'm sorry but the fact that MS is making the chip in house actually lends far more credence to the notion that the cost of manufacture of the kinect is not going to go down as fast as it could

The only reason you manufacture a chip in-house nowadays is to protect the design from corporate espionage and cheap chinese knockoffs

That's why million dollar cisco routers are made in house

You can not compete with the cost savings of a Chinese chip factory by making them in the US or in house of a large multi-national corporation

It just doesn't work economically
 

ypo

Member
Hi Albert,

I know there are many more people like me who were maybe an X360 user or even not, who are now getting the PS4 simply because it has better hardware. My question is what can Microsoft say/argue in simple terms if any about its hardware being less powerful than the PS4?. A possible totally made-up example is if the XB1 has more on-board processors than the PS4 alleviating CPU usage by offering its separate use and for instance providing better audio.

P.S - I'm a longtime lurker on these forums and is why this is my first post.

He's a busy man so let me answer that for you. With the infinite power of the cloud engineered by the people who INVENTED DIRECTX! will nullify the 50% in performance gap which in itself amounts to almost nothing in real world application anyway; however, we have a 6% boost in GPU power which is very important and ideal, just wait till you see them in action...oh man so beautiful...like a bear eating salmon while balancing on a wooden beam. In reality, according to our technical fellows, you will see at launch that there will be no performance difference, but that 6% will make a difference. Just wait and see. Patience is a virtue.
 

EvB

Member
I'm sorry but the fact that MS is making the chip in house actually lends far more credence to the notion that the cost of manufacture of the kinect is not going to go down as fast as it could

The only reason you manufacture a chip in-house nowadays is to protect the design from corporate espionage and cheap chinese knockoffs

That's why million dollar cisco routers are made in house

You can not compete with the cost savings of a Chinese chip factory by making them in the US or in house of a large multi-national corporation

It just doesn't work economically

They aren't manufacturing it in house, they have designed it in house as opposed to licensing the tech from a 3rd party.
 
Can somebody shed a light on this?

WIKIPEDIA: The term fillrate usually refers to the number of pixels a video card can render and write to video memory in a second. In this case, fillrates are given in megapixels per second or in gigapixels per second (in the case of newer cards), and they are obtained by multiplying the number of raster operations (ROPs) by the clock frequency of the graphics processor unit (GPU) of a video card. However, there is no agreement on how to calculate and report fillrates. Other possible methods are: to multiply the number of texture units by the clock frequency, or to multiply the number of pixel pipelines by the clock frequency. [1] The results of these multiplications correspond to a theoretical number. The actual fillrate depends on many other factors.

What they were saying about the Xbone was that it doesn't have the RAM bandwidth to even take advantage of 32 ROPs. It would be overkill for their setup. They don't even have enough bandwidth to support 16 ROPs. They have a big disadvantage vs PS4 in ram bandwidth. 109 GB/s vs 172 GB/s. PS4 can fully utilize 16 ROPs, but they have 32. It's more than they need, but more is better in their case.
 

Bobnob

Member
Ask Albert, someone should create a new thread.Anyways my question is how much storage will X1 game use on average ?
 
Well it´s nice at least Sony allow you to replace it but seeing the size of these games you will probably end up switching HDD instead if PS+ keeps delivering =P. Another reason to buy my games on discs.
 

TronLight

Everybody is Mikkelsexual
Killzone is 50GB. Would not be surprised if a lot of games take up 30-50GB on PS4/XBO. That 500GB will fill up quick.

Yeah but that's with, what, 15 fully voice-acted languages, ultra-hight bitrates 1080p cutscenes, extras and the likes.
Strip the game down to the core, only the assets, and how much it'll weight, 20GB? If I remember correctly, Uncharted 3 was only 20GB of raw data. I don't remember if that's with multi language audio included or not (probably included).

They should install only the game's assets, with only the selected language, and let the cutscene's stream from the disk.

If they will do this, 500GB will last way longer.
Unless you go full digital.
 
Yes, its in the form of unicorn tears stored in a vile next to the esram. The vile will be remotely broken during the third year of the console's life cycle, at which point the tears will spill evenly over the esram causing it morph into esxxxxxxramZ. This in turn will cause the GPU bandwidth to skyrocket to 777 Teraflops/s.

Major Nelson confirmed this, will post link soon.

Lol that sounds awesome. PS4 preorder cancelled!
 
Yeah but that's with, what, 15 fully voice-acted languages, ultra-hight bitrates 1080p cutscenes, extras and the likes.
Strip the game down to the core, only the assets, and how much it'll weight, 20GB? If I remember correctly, Uncharted 3 was only 20GB of raw data. I don't remember if that's with multi language audio included or not (probably included).

They should install only the game's assets, with only the selected language, and let the cutscene's stream from the disk.

If they will do this, 500GB will last way longer.
Unless you go full digital.

eh even 15 languages worth of audio isn't that much unless the game is literally reading a book to you

Cut scenes are far more concerning

Wasn't there hub bub this gen with maybe final fantasy over X360's use of DVDs and the problem that brought?
 

USC-fan

Banned
Yeah but that's with, what, 15 fully voice-acted languages, ultra-hight bitrates 1080p cutscenes, extras and the likes.
Strip the game down to the core, only the assets, and how much it'll weight, 20GB? If I remember correctly, Uncharted 3 was only 20GB of raw data. I don't remember if that's with multi language audio included or not (probably included).

They should install only the game's assets, with only the selected language, and let the cutscene's stream from the disk.

If they will do this, 500GB will last way longer.
Unless you go full digital.
Doesnt matter if you buy disc or not. They still run the game off the HDD.

Unlikely you will save any space.
 

TronLight

Everybody is Mikkelsexual
eh even 15 languages worth of audio isn't that much unless the game is literally reading a book to you

Cut scenes are far more concerning

Wasn't there hub bub this gen with maybe final fantasy over X360's use of DVDs and the problem that brought?
But it's still space that can be saved.

Yes, cutscenes were over-compressed on the X360 because of space constraint.

Doesnt matter if you buy disc or not. They still run the game off the HDD.

Unlikely you will save any space.

That's what I'm saying.
If you buy the physical copy, they should install only the core data, not all the prerendered cutscenes and the likes.
That way, you save lots of space.
 

Caayn

Member
You're not mentioning the fact that MS places advertisement on their Xbox dashboard. If you're going to be so critical of his post then you should know by now that when it comes to online marketing and advertisement, data collected on consumers is a very effective method of delivering targeted advertisement. So his assumption isn't as far fetched as you make it out to be. And MS wouldn't be the first company to use these methods. Pretty much everybody does it.
You're missing the point, and are taking things out of their context. FeiRR uses the price of the kinect and other parts of the Xbox One as an excuse to claim that MS will data mine biometric data in one way or another, to make up for that loss. Unless you opt-in for such a feature yourself, MS is not going to harvest your biometric data. And targeted advertising is something that we'll start to see on every console, their is no way that the PS4 isn't going to be an exception to that. (We see it already on lot's of different other products)
 

Colbert

Banned
I know there are many more people like me who were maybe an X360 user or even not, who are now getting the PS4 simply because it has better hardware. My question is what can Microsoft say/argue in simple terms if any about its hardware being less powerful than the PS4?. A possible totally made-up example is if the XB1 has more on-board processors than the PS4 alleviating CPU usage by offering its separate use and for instance providing better audio.

Why not wait until both consoles are out. I am sure there will be a lot of tests and reviews that can help your decision and can give you more evidence on your thoughts that the PS4 is more powerful or not. I personally don't understand all this fuzz about which console is more powerful and secondly I prefer not to compare on marketing statements from both sides. To me it is always the games. If there a game or two you want to play on a PS4 or Xbox One just buy the console of your choice. You can always trade in the console if you are unlucky with it.
 

Donos

Member
nowadays some people throw that "GAF is Sonyland" around pretty often. Do they remember the early PS3 years? PS3 got beaten up daily pretty bad on GAF and other forums (rightly so).

If Sony had unveiled the PS4 with always online DRM and mandatory camera (and the other MS stuff) GAF would shit on them the same way they do/did now with MS.

To the topic: MS will optimize their software(hardware use in the coming years but so will Sony.
 

Tabular

Banned
The 50% figure is a pure hardware number. That is, speaking in terms of the raw physical capability of the respective parts, rather than their utilization. That number hasn't (and won't, short of an up-clock) actually changed at all. The number that's changed is how much of the X-Box One GPU is going to be reserved for Kinect and whatever other OS tasks (apparently 10%). At the moment, we do not actually know one way or another what the comparative number on the PS4 is, though open speculation is that it's probably lower to begin with because the console doesn't have a GPU-intensive peripheral built into it.

They X-Box One is only "gaining" GPU power here in comparison to how much it originally had available, whereas it's entirely possible (and likely) that it "loses" yet more in comparison to the PS4 due to the latter likely having a smaller GPU reservation than the One can manage without sacrificing Kinect utility. That's why some people here have consistently been recommending Microsoft's PR should stop making direct comparisons to the PS4: they come out looking a lot better if they just talk about their own system rather than trying to one-up the competition.

As for RAM reservations, both systems already have considerable - probably somewhat excessive, even - amounts of it set aside for OS functionality. The amount chosen was almost certainly greater than will be needed for the sake of future-proofing, and it's quite likely you will see more of it freed up for application use on both systems moving forward as they receive OS optimization. That could be several years down the line, though, as neither company wants to get blindsided by having some hot new app crop up that they want to integrate into their OS only to find out they're short the RAM to run it alongside existing applications.

Not really. There were reports from numerous devs saying they were getting 50% more performance from the PS4. So that's no longer strictly hardware. That's real world performance. What I was trying to say was that Microsoft is more concerned with this bit of info and their newest bit of PR given to DF seems a reaction to that.

PlayStation 4 is currently around 50 per cent faster than its rival Xbox One. Multiple high-level game development sources have described the difference in performance between the consoles as “significant” and “obvious.”

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=676989&highlight=edge+power

Other then that I agree with what your saying.
 

Marc

Member
So currently:

Xbone: 1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games
Xbone: 768 Shaders
Xbone: 48 Texture units
Xbone: 16 ROPS
Xbone: 2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4: 1.84TF GPU ( 18 CUs) for games + 56%
PS4: 1152 Shaders +50%
PS4: 72 Texture units +50%
PS4: 32 ROPS + 100%
PS4: 8 ACE/64 queues +400%

Looks unbalanced to me.

Damn, trying to catch up on this thread and that is insane to look at.


Marc_PS4_Xbox_Terminated.gif


Pardon the poor gif, new to the game.
 

frizby

Member
Looking at the most recent calculations, it occurs to me that the raw power difference between PS4 and XB1 is just about the same as the raw power difference between XB1 and WiiU.

That can't be right, can it?
 

Metfanant

Member
nowadays some people throw that "GAF is Sonyland" around pretty often. Do they remember the early PS3 years? PS3 got beaten up daily pretty bad on GAF and other forums (rightly so).

If Sony had unveiled the PS4 with always online DRM and mandatory camera (and the other MS stuff) GAF would shit on them the same way they do/did now with MS.

To the topic: MS will optimize their software(hardware use in the coming years but so will Sony.

people forget those types of things far too easily...
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Damn, trying to catch up on this thread and that is insane to look at.


Marc_PS4_Xbox_Terminated.gif


Pardon the poor gif, new to the game.
When you know those numbers it makes it hilarious when people say that Tflops aren't the only measure of GPU performance in defense of the XBO when PS4's advantage in the other categories is even bigger than the flop difference.
 
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