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[icespide]

I wonder now which platform will have the better looking exclusives?

Scorpio will be the most powerful, but its games must run on the Xbox One as well as target native 4k most likely (Microsoft seems to be pushing this hard for its first party games)

PS4 Pro is not as powerful as Scorpio, but the base PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One so it's not held back as much I guess? Sony also hasn't made any kind of aspirations for native 4k so I feel there won't be as much of a stigma for using checkerboarding rendering to allow more eye candy

will be interesting to see how it plays out

 

[Aceofspades]

So... it's gonna be what they were telling us it would be last year?

I'm shocked!

Actually MS didn't lie about anything, its just the fans who run some crazy theories about Scorpio HW.

 

[LukasTaves]

Nearly identical performance gap to the Xbone>PS4 based on the GPU figures.

But likely more with the gpu efficiencies of the new architecture, more and faster ram.

A 40% increase in resolutions the pro is achieving wouldn't bring its games to native 4k. It would need a little bit more.

 

[Koobion]

I don't see this launching at $399, I mean Sony left out the 4K bluray player which helped the Pro reach that price point.

I think $449 is more accurate with 4k Bluray drive, 1TB HD (could be 2 TB?), 12 GB GDDR5 ram, 6TF GPU and ~2.5ghz Jaguar.

Let's remember Microsoft wants to make a decent profit on this....

Isn't the thermal cap 2.1GHz on that CPU though?

 

[shandy706]

Lmfao. No. That's not how console HW works.

I've been working with console hardware and gaming on PCs for over 30 years.

Time for you to explain to me how a $400-$500 6TF+ console is laughable if enthusiasts are willing to buy a 6TF+ GPU for $600-$1000 (myself included).

A lot of people in here are deflecting instead of filling out why they're saying what they're saying.

It's not laughable. How it will sale I would question, but that cost range vs the hardware in an all encompassing system sounds pretty darn good as a person who loves tech.

 

[Head.spawn]

The whole Scorpio reveal was about those uncompromised quality pixels haha. For me the message was clear targeting native 4K gaming not checkerboard or whatever solutions

Have you read any of their statements, interviews, podcasts, forum thread topics, twitter comments etc etc in the 7 months after that announcement trailer was made?

 

[Con Con]

I really missed these console power threads, they're quite the ride.

The documents mostly seem to reaffirm what Microsoft has actually said about the Scorpio.. which isn't very much. It's telling that they recommend the same up-scaling techniques used by the Pro however. Still, price is king. $399 is the sweet spot.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Sony outplayed MS yet again this gen. Releasing PRO last year was really smart move by them. MS is left with releasing a slightly more powerful and more expensive box a year later.

Maybe this will be priced at what PS4 Pro released at. On the other hand, PS4 Pro will be cheaper by then. So yeah, I do think MS were outmaneuvered.

 

[Nikodemos]

Ok, with all this power, what are chances that we'll see Scorpio-only games i.e. games built from the ground up targeting Scorpio's architecture?

VR exclusive, since that's a non-starter on the regular Xbone.

Isn't the thermal cap 2.1GHz on that CPU though?

Beema (Puma) has a maximum turbo of 2.4 GHz (base freq. 2.0). Carrizo-L (Puma+) has a max turbo of 2.5 (base freq. 2.2).

 

[hanspampel]

And the PS4 Pro over the XB1 comparison?

GPU = 220% increase
RAM = 0% increase or 6,5% ( not sure how much ram is reserved for the os on xbox)
Bandwith = 220% increase (not counting ESRAM bandwith for XB1)
CPU = 20% increase

 

[Complicated]

The whole Scorpio reveal was about those uncompromised quality pixels haha. For me the message was clear targeting native 4K gaming not checkerboard or whatever solutions

We have no indication that there won't be native 4k games. Not even sure what you're going on about.

 

[RibMan]

They're not going to respond.

I think you know why they added the word "true" before 4K gaming, and furthermore, I think you know that's the primary reason people are saying if this information turns out to be true then Microsoft presented a misleading pitch for their upcoming product.

Unless of course, we're moving goal posts now and checkerboard rendering is true 4K gaming. If that's the case then I as well as others are 100% wrong in saying Microsoft looks like they lied again.

 

[VincentMatts]

I wonder now which platform will have the better looking exclusives?

Scorpio will be the most powerful, but its games must run on the Xbox One as well as target native 4k most likely (Microsoft seems to be pushing this hard for its first party games)

PS4 Pro is not as powerful as Scorpio, but the base PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One so it's not held back as much I guess? Sony also hasn't made any kind of aspirations for native 4k so I feel there won't be as much as a stigma for using checkerboarding rendering to allow more eye candy

will be interesting to see how it plays out

I think the biggest difference you will see is how xbox games will perform compared to the xbox one versions.

Things like split screen will probably make a return since the HW can handle it better now with this.

 

[DOWN]

Phil Spencer told you exactly what Scorpio was going to be yet you all went wild with it and got crazy hyped on theoreticals and fanboy wankery.

What exactly did he lie about?

What did he lie about? The only issue i see is reading comprehension.

Guess we all have different interpretations about his 'if we are going to do leaps they need to be huge, I don't like the idea of an Xbox 1.5 etc' and that uncompressed pixels 4K 60fps Scorpio video

 

[Breakage]

little to no chance.

Never

So it's essentially going to have its wings clipped in order to support a platform that is currently lagging behind Sony's machine. This is what I don't get about the Scorpio project and all this boasting about "power" - at the end of the day, it's just gonna be a machine that merely enhances XB1 games in ways that the masses won't care about.
This console isn't going to put MS back on top but the way they've been talking about it suggests that it's going to be some revolutionary machine that'll blow people away.

 

[TimeEffect]

Sony outplayed MS yet again this gen. Releasing PRO last year was really smart move by them. MS is left with releasing a slightly more powerful and more expensive box a year later.

Yeah, and they'll be in the perfect position to announce a price cut too

 

[icespide]

I think the biggest difference you will see is how xbox games will perform compared to the xbox one versions.

Things like split screen will probably make a return since the HW can handle it better now with this.

will microsoft allow huge features like that on one version and not the other? that seems shitty

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Ok, with all this power, what are chances that we'll see Scorpio-only games i.e. games built from the ground up targeting Scorpio's architecture?

Think of the Scorpio as a Custom Windows 10 computer. With the Xbox ONE Operating System as what you will see on boot.

Devs will still target xbox one development but also have another option for a Scorpio Version that will closely resemble a PC version. They want to close the gap between developing for these platforms while also providing targets for specific hardware - like the Scorpio.

A simple way i look at it; ( i could be totally wrong though as im just speculating!)

Xbox One SDK [UWP]

• Xbox One - Target
• PC* - Target
• Xbox Scorpio* - Target

*These pipelines can work on the same workflow. Your PC development can be used toward the Xbox Scorpio Target.

 

[DagnastyEp]

Sony outplayed MS yet again this gen. Releasing PRO last year was really smart move by them. MS is left with releasing a slightly more powerful and more expensive box a year later.

While the PS4 Pro is out, MS hasn't even made their play (with Scorpio) yet. At this point, and with the still limited information we have (regarding Scorpio) it's unreasonable to make assentations such as these.

We have a bit of info as to how the Pro is performing. Even though Scorpio was announced last E3, we really don't have much info about it, with this new article from DF providing more speculation than anything concrete.

 

[Duxxy3]

Maybe this will be priced at what PS4 Pro released at. On the other hand, PS4 Pro will be cheaper by then. So yeah, I do think MS were outmaneuvered.

I'm not sure about that.

If MS hadn't announced Scorpio back at E3, then they definitely got out maneuvered. But announcing it a year and a half early really dampened the excitement for the Pro. I'd probably have a Pro if Scorpio wasn't announced.

 

[shandy706]

You can get a 5.8TF Gpu today for <$200.

That is true, but then you have to buy the rest of the hardware..and this console includes everything down to a 4k UHD drive, and has been in development well before today.

Unless of course, we're moving goal posts now and checkerboard rendering is true 4K gaming. If that's the case then I as well as others are 100% wrong in saying Microsoft looks like they lied again.

If the console can do Native 4k and supports high end VR...what are they lying about? Does every single game they ever release have to support it with ZERO acceptance for a group of people to not call them "LIARS!!!"

Ridiculous

 

[daveo42]

I wonder now which platform will have the better looking exclusives?

Scorpio will be the most powerful, but its games must run on the Xbox One as well as target native 4k most likely (Microsoft seems to be pushing this hard for its first party games)

PS4 Pro is not as powerful as Scorpio, but the base PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One so it's not held back as much I guess? Sony also hasn't made any kind of aspirations for native 4k so I feel there won't be as much of a stigma for using checkerboarding rendering to allow more eye candy

will be interesting to see how it plays out

I mean, I assume Scorpio will have the better looking exclusives as long as studios put in the work to optimize their code for two separate architectures. It shouldn't be that hard as my guess is that whatever ends up being on the Scorpio will be similar to what is delivered on PC, just a bit more fine-tuned.

Third parties will be hit or miss as it has been with Sony and the Pro.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I think you know why they added the word "true" before 4K gaming, and furthermore, I think you know that's the primary reason people are saying if this information turns out to be true then Microsoft presented a misleading pitch for their upcoming product.

Unless of course, we're moving goal posts now and checkerboard rendering is true 4K gaming. If that's the case then I as well as others are 100% wrong in saying Microsoft looks like they lied again.

Hmm. I think the "true 4K" part is what people are going to call Phil and MS out for lying if things stand as it is.

 

[EagleEyes]

I wonder now which platform will have the better looking exclusives?

Scorpio will be the most powerful, but its games must run on the Xbox One as well as target native 4k most likely (Microsoft seems to be pushing this hard for its first party games)

PS4 Pro is not as powerful as Scorpio, but the base PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One so it's not held back as much I guess? Sony also hasn't made any kind of aspirations for native 4k so I feel there won't be as much of a stigma for using checkerboarding rendering to allow more eye candy

will be interesting to see how it plays out

But if its a higher resolution it wins by default, right? I mean we've had this argument for the last 3 years(1080p vs. 900p). . I have a hunch resolution will start to play a smaller role on this forum when Scorpio launches.

 

[LostDonkey]

Seems like a lot of speculation CPU wise. Paper is from July 2016. Anything could have changed since then.

Can't wait to find out though.

 

[Crayon]

I wonder now which platform will have the better looking exclusives?

Scorpio will be the most powerful, but its games must run on the Xbox One as well as target native 4k most likely (Microsoft seems to be pushing this hard for its first party games)

PS4 Pro is not as powerful as Scorpio, but the base PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One so it's not held back as much I guess? Sony also hasn't made any kind of aspirations for native 4k so I feel there won't be as much of a stigma for using checkerboarding rendering to allow more eye candy

will be interesting to see how it plays out

Sony should show horizon and gow and claim blast processing. It would work.

 

[Self_Destructive]

I wonder if articles like this are simply to try to get a response from Microsoft to try to get them to confirm something either directly or indirectly?

 

[Raylan]

I think you know why they added the word "true" before 4K gaming, and furthermore, I think you know that's the primary reason people are saying if this information turns out to be true then Microsoft presented a misleading pitch for their upcoming product.

Unless of course, we're moving goal posts now and checkerboard rendering is true 4K gaming. If that's the case then I as well as others are 100% wrong in saying Microsoft looks like they lied again.

Whatever "true" here even means.

 

[icespide]

But if its a higher resolution it wins by default, right? I mean we've had this argument for the last 3 years(1080p vs. 900p). . I have a hunch resolution will start to play a smaller role on this forum when Scorpio launches.

IMO 900p vs 1080p is not a big deal and neither will checkerboard FauxK vs native 4k

 

[demigod]

I've been working with console hardware and gaming on PCs for over 30 years.

Time for you to explain to me how a $400-$500 6TF+ console is laughable if enthusiasts are willing to buy a 6TF+ GPU for $600-$1000 (myself included).

A lot of people in here are deflecting instead of filling out why they're saying what they're saying.

It's not laughable. How it will sale I would question, but that cost range vs the hardware in an all encompassing system sounds pretty darn good as a person who loves tech.

It is laughable since you'd be buying it at the end of 2017.

 

[Memorabilia]

I don't see this launching at $399, I mean Sony left out the 4K bluray player which helped the Pro reach that price point.

I think $449 is more accurate with 4k Bluray drive, 1TB HD (could be 2 TB?), 12 GB GDDR5 ram, 6TF GPU and ~2.5ghz Jaguar.

Let's remember Microsoft wants to make a decent profit on this....

I wish people would stop with this stuff. Not a snowball's chance in hell MS launches above $399. The only way they do that is if they want to *guarantee* it will have minimal effect on the market and put zero dent in Sony's lead. If that's the case why bother releasing it in the first place? They need to make a splash and sell a shit-ton of units right out the gate or pack it up and go home. It needs to be at or below the magic $400 price point. This isn't rocket science and MS isn't Nintendo. They're not in this to get an "everyone wins for trying" award.

 

[Mokujin]

That video checks out with what I expected:

* Still Jaguar
* No ESRAM
* Not many games will be true 4k
* Resorting to check board rendering like Ps4Pro

PC already show us that you need much more power for real 4K, ESRAM was decidedly going to get scrapped to fit more CUs and memory bandwidth already hinted at that.

So Developers will have to carry the burden to develop both ESRAM and no ESRAM versions, but it won't be that bad since Scorpio development will be basically the same as Ps4/Pro.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Surprise, DocSeuss was wrong

I know things. Whether you believe me or not is up to you. I think Microsoft currently wants to target 8TF and $400 USD. I'm not sure they can achieve it, but I think that's their current goal. Hence the 60% certainty.

 

[Chamber]

Right, so, XB1 Pro.

I'll cop day 1. Gimme that checkerboard rendered Forza 7.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Been in client meetings all afternoon and log onto GAF to see this thread.

This is going be a great read tonight, whether the specs are good or bad I can only imagine how some posters are reacting to this news

 

[eso76]

Scorpio was always advertised as a machine that could run Xbox one games in 4k, or for VR.
This just confirms the specs they announced last year (being a document from July 2016 that was obviously going to be the case) and the systems capabilitie are absolutely in line with what was announced.

Microsoft should be getting a nice selection of native 4k games and comfortably the best console versions of multiplatform games, unless they are adamant about having native 4k titles which could eventually mean games performing worse than their ps4pro checkerboard counterparts (while not looking dramatically different imho) but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Again, did people want to spend 599$ on a system that was going to be held back by the Xbox one anyway ? Or a quasi-new generation that was going to be held back by the number of installed current gen consoles, with little chances to shine until the industry moved forward in 2/3 years (against significantly more powerful machines by then) ?

Surprise, DocSeuss was wrong

While I doubt target specs have changed it's worth reminding people (on every new page, it seems) that this document is from JULY 2016 so it's very obvious it would just confirm whatever Ms announced less than one month earlier during E3.
There's nothing new here, and there couldn't be since this paper dates back to when Scorpio was first announced.

 

[Head.spawn]

Guess we all have different interpretations about his 'if we are going to do leaps they need to be huge, I don't like the idea of an Xbox 1.5 etc' and that uncompressed pixels 4K 60fps Scorpio video

4.5x GPU power isn't a huge bump? The RAM upgrade and bandwidth bump isn't huge?

Be a bit more specific.

The 4k 60fps thing... if you read or listened to any of the things I asked if you did referred to something along the lines of "1080p 60fps games on Xbox One will run at 4k60fps on Scorpio with Xbox One quality graphics". So, that's why I asked if you had read anything... if you had, you wouldn't need to interpret it differently, when they straight up said exactly what they meant with no minced words.

 

[ekim]

Whatever "true" here even means.

I guess it should be doable to run most games at 4K/30 FPS with a medium detail setting.

 

[Sarobi]

So it's essentially going to have its wings clipped in order to support a platform that is currently lagging behind Sony's machine. This is what I don't get about the Scorpio project and all this boasting about "power" - at the end of the day, it's just gonna be a machine that merely enhances XB1 games in ways that the masses won't care about.
This console isn't going to put MS back on top but the way they've been talking about it suggests that it's going to be some revolutionary machine that'll blow people away.

Well I mean it can still blow people away, but they just aren't going to do it by killing off the Xbox One.. yet. They're lagging behind Sony, but that doesn't change the fact that they want to follow the same business model that Sony is pursuing (upgraded boxes every few years).

 

[Shil Pencer]

So it's essentially going to have its wings clipped in order to support a platform that is currently lagging behind Sony's machine. This is what I don't get about the Scorpio project and all this boasting about "power" - at the end of the day, it's just gonna be a machine that merely enhances XB1 games in ways that the masses won't care about.
This console isn't going to put MS back on top but the way they've been talking about it suggests that it's going to be some revolutionary machine that'll blow people away.

I see it more we could reach a point where Scorpio is like playing on High/Ultra settings on PC where as Xbox One will be like playing on low.

 

[Raylan]

I guess it should be doable to run most games at 4K/30 FPS with a medium detail setting.

So with "true" they mean "native"?

 

[Kaako]

I've been working with console hardware and gaming on PCs for over 30 years.

Time for you to explain to me how a $400-$500 6TF+ console is laughable if enthusiasts are willing to buy a 6TF+ GPU for $600-$1000 (myself included).

A lot of people in here are deflecting instead of filling out why they're saying what they're saying.

It's not laughable. How it will sale I would question, but that cost range vs the hardware in an all encompassing system sounds pretty darn good as a person who loves tech.

It sounds good, but not $500 good in late 2017.
And no "enthusiast" in their right mind is going to spend $600-1000 on a 6TF GPU in 2017 when you can buy equivalent card(s) or much better ones for much cheaper now. That cost range vs HW for a late 2017 console is nowhere near $500 good.

 

[Primethius]

But if its a higher resolution it wins by default, right? I mean we've had this argument for the last 3 years(1080p vs. 900p). . I have a hunch resolution will start to play a smaller role on this forum when Scorpio launches.

Higher resolution does win yes. More problematic here for MS (and they might very well overcome this) is that because of the base consoles, the PS4 has a general edge in visual fidelity.

It's easier to sell visuals and downplay resolution differences with titles like God of War, or Horizon: Zero Dawn in your pocket.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Where were you slightly more powerful people at when the XB1 was getting roasted everyday? Maybe you could have talked some sense into people before we went dozens of pages on foliage differences in GTA5 and other moments of pure fuckery.

 

[Tallshortman]

I've been working with console hardware and gaming on PCs for over 30 years.

Time for you to explain to me how a $400-$500 6TF+ console is laughable if enthusiasts are willing to buy a 6TF+ GPU for $600-$1000 (myself included).

A lot of people in here are deflecting instead of filling out why they're saying what they're saying.

It's not laughable. How it will sale I would question, but that cost range vs the hardware in an all encompassing system sounds pretty darn good as a person who loves tech.

What 6TF GPU are you buying for $600-$1000? The 480 8GB which can reach 6TF on factory OC is $200 now.

 

[LukasTaves]

I think you know why they added the word "true" before 4K gaming, and furthermore, I think you know that's the primary reason people are saying if this information turns out to be true then Microsoft presented a misleading pitch for their upcoming product.

Unless of course, we're moving goal posts now and checkerboard rendering is true 4K gaming. If that's the case then I as well as others are 100% wrong in saying Microsoft looks like they lied again.

That doc does not dispute that though. Geometry resolution was always what was measured to determine the resolution and this doc is affirming that Scorpio is powerful enough that even a 900p game on xbone can be made 4k.

Lower res rendering for effects, transparencies or other alternate buffers have been used since forever and never were considered that the game wasn't native res because of that.

 

[Complicated]

I'm not sure about that.

If MS hadn't announced Scorpio back at E3, then they definitely got out maneuvered. But announcing it a year and a half early really dampened the excitement for the Pro. I'd probably have a Pro if Scorpio wasn't announced.

Same here. I think Sony went too early. 4K displays are definitely going to take off this year, and Microsoft will have the Blu-Ray player and more powerful console at likely the same price Sony launched at a few months ago. If Sony can pull off a $100 price drop then they'll be fine, but I don't think $50 will have quite the effect some people are thinking if the MS marketing machine is going full tilt in a way that is completely the opposite of Sony's commitment to Ps4 Pro's launch.

 

[Synth]

Can you please point me out which console was more powerful before ps4 pro, wii u?

I'm talking about each console's specs being "ragged on". That may be true for the PS4 Pro.. but the PS4 itself was championed if anything.

"Based Cerny"
"8GB DDR5"
"hUMA"

etc. It was the XB1 that was being ragged on constantly in comparison.

 

[ClearData]

I wonder now which platform will have the better looking exclusives?

Scorpio will be the most powerful, but its games must run on the Xbox One as well as target native 4k most likely (Microsoft seems to be pushing this hard for its first party games)

PS4 Pro is not as powerful as Scorpio, but the base PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One so it's not held back as much I guess? Sony also hasn't made any kind of aspirations for native 4k so I feel there won't be as much of a stigma for using checkerboarding rendering to allow more eye candy

will be interesting to see how it plays out

On paper, the Scorpio has the power to have visuals that outstrip the Pro, but graphics and art direction are different things, so opinions are always subjective once you get beyond technical specifications. I think Mario 3D World looks amazing even running on the humble Wii U hardware. You'd need a sample from Scorpio which hasn't been produced yet while we have plenty of games, and more coming, to benchmark the Pro. I think Horizon should provide a watermark for what the Pro can do on the exclusive front.

 

[Lucifon]

Maybe this will be priced at what PS4 Pro released at. On the other hand, PS4 Pro will be cheaper by then. So yeah, I do think MS were outmaneuvered.

Not really. The pro generally hasn't been well received at all. Nor has it sold that well. Microsoft can learn from the mistakes of Sony here and make sure they approach things differently. With this info being from July means by the time this thing released devs will have had almost 1.5 yrs to prepare and aim for. All indications of the Pro were that devs didn't have much time to optimize for it.