Support NeoGAF

[Shpeshal Nick]

Agreed. I know a lot of people think otherwise, but Halo does not, and has not ever needed 60fps. It's not a twitch shooter, in fact it's focus is slightly slower paced, sandboxy, epic goodness. Those massive battles, vehicles, all out wars, crazy vista's, epic interiors etc, all would be better served by going 30fps.

In any case, if they have settled on it, a dynamic resolution to ensure it stays at a fairly consistent 60fps is welcome. Though I don't see why they can't just lock the resolution for consistencies sake (900p would be sufficient). If the frame rate is wonky, not consistent at 60fps (Eg Titanfall), it'd be tragic lol. Not because I'd care much about the drops, but because it'd bother me that they didn't just go 30fps instead.

I'm not overly fussed one way or another but I'm kind of with you on this one. Been playing Halo at 30 since forever and it never once bothered me. Halo was always slower in pace so 30 frames never stood out. I never played Halo thinking the game isn't responsive enough.

For single player anyway, id rather 900/30 and they make it look insane. But I'm sure that's just me.

 

[Team Klimt]

*

 

[Shivvy_NTL]

I dont mind this for multiplayer but Why don't they just have a 30fps campaign with a solid resolution.

 

[AEREC]

Halo was always a looker, except maybe ODST when it came out. 3 had a jaggy problem but the scale and lighting were insane. Reach was a massive jump in fidelity without much sacrifice in scale (if any) and imo remains the graphical king of Halo games on 360.

Reach had a horrible framerate at times.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

Agreed. I know a lot of people think otherwise, but Halo does not, and has not ever needed 60fps. It's not a twitch shooter, in fact it's focus is slightly slower paced, sandboxy, epic goodness. Those massive battles, vehicles, all out wars, crazy vista's, epic interiors etc, all would be better served by going 30fps.

Well said.

 

[Primethius]

Reach had a horrible framerate at times.

It also had awful ghosting issues. But I'd take that over 4's meager scale and campaign offerings.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

I dont mind this for multiplayer but Why don't they just have a 30fps campaign with a solid resolution.

Well, consistency for one. The gameplay would feel less responsive in the campaign. Plus, Halo 5 is the fastest paced Halo there has ever been, which is probably part of the reason for this design decision.

Personally, after playing MCC at 60fps across all of the games, I can't understand why someone would want to go back to 30; 60 just feels and looks so much better.

Well said.

But Halo 5 is very fast paced, even if it's not a twitch shooter.

 

[Killerhertz]

Agreed. I know a lot of people think otherwise, but Halo does not, and has not ever needed 60fps. It's not a twitch shooter, in fact it's focus is slightly slower paced, sandboxy, epic goodness. Those massive battles, vehicles, all out wars, crazy vista's, epic interiors etc, all would be better served by going 30fps.

In any case, if they have settled on it, a dynamic resolution to ensure it stays at a fairly consistent 60fps is welcome. Though I don't see why they can't just lock the resolution for consistencies sake (900p would be sufficient). If the frame rate is wonky, not consistent at 60fps (Eg Titanfall), it'd be tragic lol. Not because I'd care much about the drops, but because it'd bother me that they didn't just go 30fps instead.

I would argue that since playing Mcc grenade flipping warthogs at 60 looks a hell of alot better than at 30

 

[rokkerkory]

LOCKED 60fps please, dynamic resolution is a great compromise for that anyday.

I welcome this change to Halo.

 

[Madness]

All I know is, I'm noticing improved clarity and visual fidelity over the beta, and that I'm starting to see more color and color saturation. I thought the campaign detail was great. I tend to judge games based on how they hold up compared to the previous releases, not to competitors. If this game is easily miles ahead of Halo 4 and Halo: Reach in terms of visuals, why complain? 60FPS means they'd have had to sacrifice somewhere visually, it's just a fact. Once I played 60fps in the beta, I can't go back now. The gameplay just feels buttery smooth, especially with dedicated servers.

 

[Hubble]

Yes, the game will use dynamic resolution especially for Warzone.

 

[KOMANI]

Maybe it means 30fps sp and 60 fps mp?

 

[SpiceMelange]

Framerate > Resolution > Graphics for me in order of importance. I'd take 1080p 60fps any day with lower visuals over 60fps scaling resolution

 

[SenjutsuSage]

If Microsoft can't win the graphics side of things this gen I'm perfectly happy with them pushing 60 fps instead, especially in a first person shooter.

I don't know about that. There's more than enough power in both these consoles for the developers themselves to be the true difference makers. The hardware, especially when it comes to exclusive titles, won't always be the decider, and I feel we've already seen that a few times already this gen.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I dont mind this for multiplayer but Why don't they just have a 30fps campaign with a solid resolution.

The game's systems are built around a framerate of 60FPS. Dropping campaign down to 30FPS would require rebuilding all those systems and would result in a lack of consistency in gameplay across modes.

 

[ClayKavalier]

The game's systems are built around a framerate of 60FPS. Dropping campaign down to 30FPS would require rebuilding all those systems and would result in a lack of consistency in gameplay across modes.

What does that mean? Don't really know much about the subject, but why are PC games able to run at different framerates?

I know that Dark Souls 2 had that odd problem where weapon degradation was based on how many frames weapons were in contact with anything, so running at 60fps vs 30fps made weapons degrade twice as fast. What would the equivalent in Halo be?

 

[Orayn]

What does that mean? Don't really know much about the subject, but why are PC games able to run at different framerates?

I know that Dark Souls 2 had that odd problem where weapon degradation was based on how many frames weapons were in contact with anything, so running at 60fps vs 30fps made weapons degrade twice as fast. What would the equivalent in Halo be?

WhiteRabbitEXE is exaggerating, most modern game engines measure time (whether for netcode, physics, or whatever) based on an internal "tick" rate that isn't directly linked to the current framerate. Stuff like Dark Souls II's weapon degradation problem are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[ClayKavalier]

WhiteRabbitEXE is exaggerating, most modern game engines measure time (whether for netcode, physics, or whatever) based on an internal "tick" rate that isn't directly linked to the current framerate. Stuff like Dark Souls II's weapon degradation problem are the exception rather than the rule.

Oh OK. I was curious because I listen to Rebel FM once in awhile and Arthur Gies, one of the hosts, will say the same thing from time to time, saying that 60fps isn't always desirable since a lot of games are designed to run at 30. He never states what exactly would break though.

 

[tokeedasmokee]

I dont mind this for multiplayer but Why don't they just have a 30fps campaign with a solid resolution.

Until I bought a One I cared less about frame rate and would probably agree with you, but I've been spoiled and am at the point where 30 fps just looks ugly. Shooting for a solid 60 fps above all else is the best decision to me.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

WhiteRabbitEXE is exaggerating, most modern game engines measure time (whether for netcode, physics, or whatever) based on an internal "tick" rate that isn't directly linked to the current framerate. Stuff like Dark Souls II's weapon degradation problem are the exception rather than the rule.

It was Frank O'Connor who explicitly stated that game's systems are built around a solid 60FPS. But I'm no expert myself, just going off of his own words.

And many games, such as fighting games, do actually rely heavily on specific frame counts. I know that much.

 

[twobear]

It also doesn't really mean a thing several months before release.

they wouldn't build a system for dynamic resolutions if they weren't intending to use it

 

[JaggedSac]

Agreed. I know a lot of people think otherwise, but Halo does not, and has not ever needed 60fps. It's not a twitch shooter, in fact it's focus is slightly slower paced, sandboxy, epic goodness. Those massive battles, vehicles, all out wars, crazy vista's, epic interiors etc, all would be better served by going 30fps.

In any case, if they have settled on it, a dynamic resolution to ensure it stays at a fairly consistent 60fps is welcome. Though I don't see why they can't just lock the resolution for consistencies sake (900p would be sufficient). If the frame rate is wonky, not consistent at 60fps (Eg Titanfall), it'd be tragic lol. Not because I'd care much about the drops, but because it'd bother me that they didn't just go 30fps instead.

Nah, the beta felt like sex. 60 fps is definitely the right decision.

they wouldn't build a system for dynamic resolutions if they weren't intending to use it

I was thinking the same.

 

[brain_stew]

Give me 900p at a solid 60fps and I'm more than satisfied.

A properly implemented dynamic resolution solution will deliver a much more solid 60fps update than a blanket 900p resolution.

This is positive news.

 

[Toothless Spoon]

Just give it to me on PC already - dump the console,

 

[mike4001_]

Assuming 1920 is 1080p what the heck is 832?

If you calculate it ... 468p

But lol, this will obviously not be true.

 

[THEaaron]

60FPS or no Halo. Playing PC and console games for 20 years, but after upgrading my PC screen to 144hz I can't enjoy 30fps console shooters anymore.

So the dynamic resolution is a damn nice thing.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You are entitled to your opinion of course but I could not disagree more, especially after playing Halo 5 which is much more fast paced, has little aim assist, and new abilities that require timing and low latency.

Well, at least you described why some people lament this is not the Halo gameplay change they wanted . Halo becoming more of a twitch shooter is not really what I was hoping for, but it might very well have great sales as there is a big market for those shooters too.

 

[flipswitch]

If you calculate it ... 468p

But lol, this will obviously not be true.

sure it's not 832p?

 

[Panajev2001a]

It was Frank O'Connor who explicitly stated that game's systems are built around a solid 60FPS. But I'm no expert myself, just going off of his own words.

And many games, such as fighting games, do actually rely heavily on specific frame counts. I know that much.

You can run say your physics at a different framerate than the rest of the game, actually you really do want to do that and avoid tying it to the game's display rate. Fluctuations in the display rate should not break your physics simulation or make it non deterministic (look into fixed time step based physics engines). Other systems would also not be using the frame time directly for the same reason.

 

[Panajev2001a]

sure it's not 832p?

He is correct, but he assumes square pixels. They could be just reducing the horizontal resolution and change the projection to rectangular pixels letting the output scaler "fix" the image.

 

[Kikorin]

For me, framerate all life, so I'm happy if they did this to have a stable 60fps.

 

[Backfoggen]

832x1080 is not going to look good

 

[safichan]

What if this truly pure Xbox exclusive still could not achieve constant 1080p on X1? Maybe finally people will recognize X1 is such a inferior hardware. All they have to do to achieve 60fps is to do so called dynamic "1080p"...i will totally understand if this is mutliplat title...but exclusive title? Pls...

 

[strata8]

832x1080 has about the same resolution as 720p.

 

[Orayn]

What if this truly pure Xbox exclusive still could not achieve constant 1080p on X1? Maybe finally people will recognize X1 is such a inferior hardware. All they have to do to achieve 60fps is to do so called dynamic "1080p"...i will totally understand if this is mutliplat title...but exclusive title? Pls...

I think you're putting a bit too much emphasis on resolution and too little on framerate. Even 900p60, which EA uses for most of their Frostbite titles, is significantly more demanding in terms fill rate than 1080p30 in addition to having other knock-on effects that make it difficult to maintain.

 

[safichan]

I think you're putting a bit too much emphasis on resolution and too little on framerate. Even 900p60, which EA uses for most of their Frostbite titles, is significantly more demanding in terms fill rate than 1080p30 in addition to having other knock-on effects that make it difficult to maintain.

i do understand..but EA have to work on many platforms to achieve many things. While 343i have all the luxuries and tech supports from MS for Halo. Its totally different situation you know. Its only confirm that X1 such a weak hardware.

 

[Muzicfreq]

A lot of you sound crazy right now because if it were any other game, you guys would be flipping your shit, yet halo gets a pass.
kill zone shadow fall got shat on hardcover by people for having a small minor change yet this drastic scaling is fine to you guys....
whatever.

Honestly the game needs a lot of work if it has to dip that low.
give me a solid resolution and framerate.
Bungee made destiny run at 1080p 30fps and people say it has amazing gun play.

 

[Withnail]

Some people noticed this in the newest The Sprint Videos:

Peopler over Beyond3d noticed different Resolutions trough the campaign and warzone gameplay videos too.


A good or bad thing?

Er, "[30.0] 33ms" means 30fps right?

 

[Durante]

All games which are GPU-limited at all and have variable loads should support dynamic resolution.

I'm actually surprised we don't see it (even) more often.

 

[Deviousx]

A lot of you sound crazy right now because if it were any other game, you guys would be flipping your shit, yet halo gets a pass.
kill zone shadow fall got shat on hardcover by people for having a small minor change yet this drastic scaling is fine to you guys....
whatever.

Honestly the game needs a lot of work if it has to dip that low.
give me a solid resolution and framerate.
Bungee made destiny run at 1080p 30fps and people say it has amazing gun play.

Are any of those same people in here now? Please, point them out. I'd really like to know who they are.

 

[tuna_love]

A lot of you sound crazy right now because if it were any other game, you guys would be flipping your shit, yet halo gets a pass.
kill zone shadow fall got shat on hardcover by people for having a small minor change yet this drastic scaling is fine to you guys....
whatever.

Honestly the game needs a lot of work if it has to dip that low.
give me a solid resolution and framerate.
Bungee made destiny run at 1080p 30fps and people say it has amazing gun play.

What happened with Killzone?

 

[Muzicfreq]

Are any of those same people in here now? Please, point them out. I'd really like to know who they are.

Not going to name names, they know who they are

 

[Raide]

During the Sprint, I also saw a Whiteboard that had some resolution information. Looked like a box showing 1080p and then smaller boxes to show other resolutions. Cannot grab it atm.

 

[Muzicfreq]

What happened with Killzone?

Multi player used a trick that would patch 2 frames that were rendered at 960x1080 to make a 1080p image yet people said the game wasn't a true 1080p game even though single-player was 100% true 1080p. Someone even tried to sue Sony for false advertising

 

[TheOhrenberger.]

A lot of you sound crazy right now because if it were any other game, you guys would be flipping your shit, yet halo gets a pass.
kill zone shadow fall got shat on hardcover by people for having a small minor change yet this drastic scaling is fine to you guys....
whatever.

Honestly the game needs a lot of work if it has to dip that low.
give me a solid resolution and framerate.
Bungee made destiny run at 1080p 30fps and people say it has amazing gun play.

Halo 5 hasn't advertised itself as running at 1080p while Killzone did. That was a whole different issue back then. Plus this stuff is coming from early, pre release builds of Halo 5 so we don't know if this is actually true or not for the final game. if halo 5 launches with a dynamic resolution I can assure you that people will get their pitch forks and torches and have the flame war that you seem to be looking for. And get your 1080p/30fps crap out of here. Destiny does not play nearly as well as any halo game, and any shooter that runs at 30fps just doesnt play as good as a shooter that runs at 60fps.

That being said I'd actually rather then just pick a resolution that works than do this dynamic resolution. If it has to be under 1080p then so be it. I want consistency, and I only care about the game running at 60fps.

 

[Madness]

A lot of you sound crazy right now because if it were any other game, you guys would be flipping your shit, yet halo gets a pass.
kill zone shadow fall got shat on hardcover by people for having a small minor change yet this drastic scaling is fine to you guys....
whatever.

Honestly the game needs a lot of work if it has to dip that low.
give me a solid resolution and framerate.
Bungee made destiny run at 1080p 30fps and people say it has amazing gun play.

Please keep your fanboy shit out of the thread. I'm going to blow your mind right now, the people who are discussing the frame rate of Halo, probably aren't the same people who were discussing the frame rate for Killzone. Please point out to us who criticized and 'shat on Killzone' in your own words who is now defending Halo?

Do you even have an Xbox One? Do you plan to get one? Do you plan to buy Halo 5? Most of us are okay with dynamic scaling for Halo 5 because it worked for Halo 2 Anniversary and because we know the Xbox One is weaker hardware wise than PS4 and we've gotten used to resolutions below 1080p. This place sometimes man. Shit.

Halo 5 is 60fps in campaign and multiplayer, the first Halo game to do that. Of course it'll be tough to maintain world class visuals while maintaining 60fps. We played the H5 beta and it ran buttery smooth for almost all the matches and maps. Now that I've had 60fps I'd take it over the 20-25 frames Halo 4 or Reach would drop to.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Halo 5 hasn't advertised itself as running at 1080p while Killzone did. That was a whole different issue back then. Plus this stuff is coming from early, pre release builds of Halo 5 so we don't know if this is actually true or not for the final game. if halo 5 launches with a dynamic resolution I assure you ther people will get their pitch forks and torches and have the flame war that you seem to be looking for. And get your 1080p/30fps crap out of here. Destiny does not play nearly as well as any halo game, and any shooter that runs at 30fps just doesnt play as good as a shooter that runs at 60fps.

That being said I'd actually rather then just pick a resolution that works than do this dynamic resolution. If it has to be under 1080p then so be it. I want consistency, and I only care about the game running at 60fps.

Funny thing is that halo on 360 was 30fps
also Killzone had the right to advertise 1080p since it ran at 1080p

 

[AlStrong]

Why does it say 33ms? That would be 30fps, ~16ms would be 60.

These are for a cut-scene (black bars).

Some people noticed this in the newest The Sprint Videos:

Mind noting that it's from a cut-scene? Just to avoid confusion with framerate. The intent of the image was the dynamic resolution.

 

[TheOhrenberger.]

Funny thing is that halo on 360 was 30fps
also Killzone had the right to advertise 1080p since it ran at 1080p

It was, and it was all we had back then so we played with what we had. Now halo runs at 60fps on Xbox one and all the games play significantly better, proving the point I made. I wouldn't dare go back to the older versions.

 

[lightchris]

All games which are GPU-limited at all and have variable loads should support dynamic resolution.

I'm actually surprised we don't see it (even) more often.

What I'm asking myself about this is how it is done in practice. Somehow the rendering costs for next frame(s) need to be estimated beforehand, is this estimation just based on the previous frametimes? I guess it's impossible to guarantee that no underestimation may happen, so there might still be framedrops every now and then?