dugdug
Banned
...but people gotta ignore Gies. The guy feeds of you guys talking about him and you do it everytime.
This. A million times.
...but people gotta ignore Gies. The guy feeds of you guys talking about him and you do it everytime.
Maybe these two fit in here:
There is tearing, quite a lot.
Alright, maybe the compression of the video made it invisible?There's been dozens and dozens of impressions and reviews talking about the horrid screen-tearing. Even the defenders in this very thread say, "Oh, well uh, yeah, the screen tearing is really bad".
I willYour heart.
As I said, liking one and not the other is fine. I don't care about his personal taste in games.
Sounds like in your theoretical example, it's two dick jokes. Saying one is the enemy of all moral good, while simultaneously enjoying the other might lend yourself to accusations of hypocrisy. Just sayin'.
You may appreciate one joke more than the other, but when you go on a moral crusade, people have a right to see if you have a leg to stand on.
The issue is a lot more nuanced than just pitting GTA vs Japanese Games. The primary thing I've taken issue with in Killer is Dead and have seen in other reviews is the glorification of sexually predatory behavior and thinking. Most of what people have been bringing up about R* games, while valid are different issues.
There is a big difference between having strippers and prostitutes in a game that models a culture where strippers and prostitutes are commonplace and having a mini-game where you sexually harass women and get them to sleep with you with presents.
Should Red Dead have been called out for the train thing? Assuming it plays out as described, sure. Has GTA always dropped the ball by not having female characters as anything more than set pieces? One-hundred percent.
Rockstars missteps, while reprehensible, aren't making the player act like Tucker Max and I think that's what sets it over the edge for me and others. As for gaming media...the discussion of sexism in games was basically nil when GTA4 hit, and before. I think GTA5 will receive some critical analysis....or at least I hope so.
Suda51 is the Vince Russo of video games. Great ideas. Horrible execution.Post Killer7
If, say, GTA had a mission type where you could gain money as a pimp, I would be pretty outraged.
I played through the Xbox 360 version of KiD and screen-tearing wasn't something that I noticed very much of. There were a couple of minor instances but it was definitely nothing drastic.
My print review will be in GamesTM magazine next month but here's my two cents in video form. I really liked the game, but I found it impossible to talk about without losing my shit a little about that horrific Matt Lees video from last month. I lose my cool at the 4m mark if that's your poison
http://youtu.be/VuuWRodHq8w
If, say, GTA had a mission type where you could gain money as a pimp, I would be pretty outraged.
I played through the Xbox 360 version of KiD and screen-tearing wasn't something that I noticed very much of. There were a couple of minor instances but it was definitely nothing drastic.
My print review will be in GamesTM magazine next month but here's my two cents in video form. I really liked the game, but I found it impossible to talk about without losing my shit a little about that horrific Matt Lees video from last month. I lose my cool at the 4m mark if that's your poison
http://youtu.be/VuuWRodHq8w
That just isn't the case though. Wouldn't we be more worried about the fact that the main character is an assassin that constantly murders people? The game sends just as much of a message that this is acceptable too.
It's fiction.
Japanese published, just sayin'. But you're right, Hitman did too.
Is that the main character? Theres a huge difference between there existing a character who says/does racist/sexist/homophobic things and it being the main character. Its a LOT harder to use the context to remove the sense that the game is applauding the behaviour when it is done by the one thing the player has a sense of agency over. The player controls and becomes the character and if the character engages in unethical behaviour it sends the message that such behaviour is acceptable.
The word misogyny has lost a lot of it's meaning and power nowadays (which is a shame), but under the current definitions it definitely applies.
If the journalists and readers are more concerned about scoring points than the fucking game:
then what's the point?
I'm pretty sure that both western and eastern developed games can be sexist. It's not mutually exclusive. So I'm not sure what pointing out Rockstar's poor depiction of women accomplishes, exactly. Aside from reinforcing what all these trendy-feminists are saying about video games.
Does anyone actually know what the term misogyny means?
I get that people don't like the mini games and what they represent and for all intents and purposes they just simple don't need to be in this or any game really. The same can be said for the God Of War mini sex games. Shit servers no purpose. Why God of War didn't get flack for basically spewing exp orbs out like man juice when completing the minigames and showing boobs but this does. no idea. I played the import of the game about half way through and getting the US edition. I enjoyed the game.
Don't make a fucking pathetic point and take my comment, which was perfectly understanable under a context, and twisted to your own stupid agenda.
Lees is not even the reviewer for this bloody game. He only specified its main selling point which deter the the fact that its an awful game.
Next time you argue, make a good point and back it up with better comments.
I played through the Xbox 360 version of KiD and screen-tearing wasn't something that I noticed very much of. There were a couple of minor instances but it was definitely nothing drastic.
My print review will be in GamesTM magazine next month but here's my two cents in video form. I really liked the game, but I found it impossible to talk about without losing my shit a little about that horrific Matt Lees video from last month. I lose my cool at the 4m mark if that's your poison
http://youtu.be/VuuWRodHq8w
Don't make a fucking pathetic point and take my comment, which was perfectly understanable under a context, and twisted to your own stupid agenda.
Lees is not even the reviewer for this bloody game. He only specified its main selling point which deter the the fact that its an awful game.
Next time you argue, make a good point and back it up with better comments.
Also the idea that GTA has somehow been immune from controversy this whole time is hilarious
This misogynistic bullshit is getting out of control.
Now the more game caters to women, the better rating it gets.
I played through the Xbox 360 version of KiD and screen-tearing wasn't something that I noticed very much of. There were a couple of minor instances but it was definitely nothing drastic.
My print review will be in GamesTM magazine next month but here's my two cents in video form. I really liked the game, but I found it impossible to talk about without losing my shit a little about that horrific Matt Lees video from last month. I lose my cool at the 4m mark if that's your poison
http://youtu.be/VuuWRodHq8w
Wow, talk about a shitty reaction while missing completely the point.
The only pathetic post was your first post, don't be so mad when you made a stupid post like that. Nobody is twisting your own stupid agenda.
Matt Lees was not right, because his point wasn't about how good or bad the game was. Read the Neogaf where he posted, he got schooled.
Next time you argue, make a good point and back it up with better comments instead of filling up your writing with epithets.
btw I think Suda makes shitty and boring derivative games.
Suda games don't sell well and target a niche. Not sure what's wrong with that.
Saints Row 3 had a lot of this stuff.
And what about that hilarious mission where you could raid a boat with women being smuggled into the country in locked shipping containers literally sitting in their own shit. And when you capture them you get to put them to work for you as prostitutes.
Nothing too bad there. All in good western humour no doubt.
A valid point, but I feel like you're giving them far too much credit. I've only seen three types of critiques from the gaming enthusiast press:
- Hamfisted, sloppy critiques that misuse or blindly quote concepts that they're preaching to the masses
- Ego-stroking, 'me-too' commentary that gets churned out at the slightest hint of a possible controversy, and willfully exaggerates or falsifies details in order to make their moral outrage more righteous
- Reasonable responses that expresses genuine feelings and impressions, ones which acknowledge alternate viewpoints when they feel that there's room to disagree and condemn ideas and concepts that they feel are harmful in a straighforward way, without condescension or cheap appeals for authority via approval by patting readers or other journalists on the back every 5 lines.
And of those three, the first two are far, far more common. For every genuine expression of bemusement, discomfort or contempt that games like GTA V might cause for their disposable approach to raunchy humor, or other feelings that games like Killer Is Dead might cause because of their clumsy, even predatory hook-up minigame (I'm only entertaining this notion because I haven't played the game, and in spite of the fact that the mini-game had TWO thorough writeups that skewer Lee's most notable criticisms), you're bound to get a ton of responses that match up with the other trends. Most journalists and bloggers will either cram their responses with references to feminism and psychology that are far beyond their depth, or just quote a bunch of other articles, yell out 'for shame, [developer], for shame' and call it a day.
And since gaming journalism is such an echo chamber, you're going to get a bunch of kneejerk reactions based on friendly accounts that are numerous degrees removed from the original story. Remember DmC? Or the Skyrim debacle? Remember how journos dug their heels in when they were called out on their mistakes, their generalizations, their flat-out lies? You honestly think they have enough respect for their readers, the art form, or the concept of social awareness or responsible criticism to use a delicate touch for this sort of thing, when they've proven in the past that they're fine with using a sledgehammer on everything?
I mean, if you don't think that shitty critiques overwhelm valid ones, that's fine. I mean, it's not like one or two bad articles invalidate a writer forever; unfortunately, even journalists that I respect and appreciate have posted the first two types of critiques from time to time, and I'm not going to try and undermine anyone's future critiques based on unrelated stuff they wrote in the past. But it's a pet peeve for me when people start namedropping Husserl and Levy like they know what they're talking about, only to embarrass themselves in the process, and I'd rather not see that behavior encouraged.
That's the problem I have with his project, the seeming lack in game creation maturity I feel he has. Make a bad game once, no big deal, you're learning. By the time you're on your fifth or sixth bad game, there's something wrong with you, not me. I know some might argue it's a purposeful choice to make his games the way he does, but saying it's a choice of style can only excuse so much.
Often what crosses lines is the not the content itself but the way in which it is presented.
Guess I will finish Saints Row 3 and think about it. I might be outraged. Thanks for letting me know.
Your comment didn't deserve anything better than that, but I'll come up with another point if you want it:
That tweet from Lees either contradicts the shitty admission he made earlier about the game being passable or exemplifies how absolutely inept he is at expressing himself within 150 characters. More importantly, it undermines the common response from Lees and his supporters - that the quality of the game has nothing to do with its messages, its implications, and the fact that it's just another game to toss on the pile of inept, socially irresponsible pulp that's been produced for the last 30+ years in video games. Apparently, KiD's quality does matter - when it's shit - because it give Lees a chance to crow about some misguided attempt at 'calling it', and to posture for vindication. And he's going to get it, because his little video - inept as it is - has completely overridden the actual game.
Your post was a prime example. Your sole post that preceded mine in this thread was a snarky reference to the video. The intent of that post, and the fact that it was steeped in NeoGAF Snark, is irrelevant - you just came by to smear that attempt at wit on the screen.
And considering that comments like yours are the bog standard for posting in any thread on this forum, I don't see why I should have to put any serious effort into anything.
No one's said that. It's immune from criticism from the gaming press. Not from being called out, but from anyone with any actual pull taking a long, hard look at what the game has to offer before slapping a 10/10 on it and calling it GOTY. It will win accolades. It will be hailed as the new standard of online multiplayer, in spite of what it actually provides. And whatever unsavory content the game has to provide will be acknowledged long, long after the game sells millions, with journos wearing a mock (or genuine, some of them are only going to play for an hour) look of surprise and saying 'oh wow, I didn't see any of this! THIS is terrible! We have failed as gamers, allowing Rockstar to do this! Someone should have pulled them aside and told them that this sort of thing was unacceptable.'. Like clockwork, RS will apologize, throw in a few cloying statements about being more sensitive in the future, and lay off that stuff after the fact - which will be a genuine improvement, something that journos will scramble to take credit for long after their role in the tale is done.
I wonder what would happen if a reviewer decided to treat violence in video games as a measure of the moral value of playing a game. I'm sure you could find plenty of people to read a video game review and come to the conclusion that they are for blood-hungry brutes.
Would their views be defended by critics or would they be ostracized like the Jack Thompsons of the world?
If people keep buying Grasshopper games despite that, they're never going to get better.I just don't understand. We know Suda. We know what his games are and what to expect.
Why is anyone saying the game is a 6 or 7 out of 10 and screaming "Told you so! Told you it was a bad game!!!!" Dude. We know it's going to be fairly hit or miss or mediocre. It's Suda. That's the territory. No one waiting for this was thinking it was going to be 10/10. Being a fairly standard Suda mess that most people agree on doesn't mean it's proven some point about it being misogynistic or anything. It just proves...yeah, that's about what we thought it was going to be.
Suda games don't sell well and target a niche. Not sure what's wrong with that.
For me, it's a desire to see the games he works on actually get better in terms of gameplay. I think he's got some interesting ideas and choices in style - even if all of that feels horribly forced at times - but it baffles me how consistently bad his games are in terms of being games. After so many attempts, I just can't understand why he can't make something that hits the themes he wants to hit and is super fun and polished in terms of gameplay.
That's the problem I have with his project, the seeming lack in game creation maturity I feel he has. Make a bad game once, no big deal, you're learning. By the time you're on your fifth or sixth bad game, there's something wrong with you, not me. I know some might argue it's a purposeful choice to make his games the way he does, but saying it's a choice of style can only excuse so much.
I'm pretty sure that both western and eastern developed games can be sexist. It's not mutually exclusive. So I'm not sure what pointing out Rockstar's poor depiction of women accomplishes, exactly. Aside from reinforcing what all these trendy-feminists are saying about video games.
If people keep buying Grasshopper games despite that, they're never going to get better.
Thankfully, people don't seem to be buying Killer is Dead.
hit the nail on the head on all that nonsense. Good review.I played through the Xbox 360 version of KiD and screen-tearing wasn't something that I noticed very much of. There were a couple of minor instances but it was definitely nothing drastic.
My print review will be in GamesTM magazine next month but here's my two cents in video form. I really liked the game, but I found it impossible to talk about without losing my shit a little about that horrific Matt Lees video from last month. I lose my cool at the 4m mark if that's your poison
http://youtu.be/VuuWRodHq8w
I didn't get to that in Saints Row 3, actually, so I didn't know this! Same goes for Vice City stories.
I have to see how the SR3 things was handled, because I think they did an overall good job of being self-aware with their potentially-offensive humor. Often what crosses lines is the not the content itself but the way in which it is presented. (Off-hand example of this nuance: The loud, angry black meathead stereotype. There's nothing wrong with this character inherently, but the problems arise when they are lacking in depth or any other personality traits.)
Guess I will finish Saints Row 3 and think about it. I might be outraged. Thanks for letting me know.
His point was there was a stupid Minigame that was borderline sexist, and that game relied solely on that point since the preview of his co-worker proved to be awful. why would I need a comment to back me again? I made my point clearly which someone twisted it to point out that reviews are to be trusted. I never talked about reviews and score line.
Read the neogaf thread and it was simply filled with childish comments like yours where people were too damn offended that their love for stupid misogynistic minigame was offended by the simple fact that this game was stupid in the first place.
Suda makes crap games and the only way to sell them is to use tits and asses (just look at the marketing videos) or being as stylish as possible, it's as simple as that. Guy is like a college student who watched a lot of B-movie shit and thinks he's actually smart, his ideas are all derivative and unoriginal. He's not Russ Meyer.
And you know what, it's totally fine! I'm totally fine with tits and asses in a B-movie game, just like movies (see Piranha or any cheap horror flick), but I'm fine with people criticizing it too. If something sounds extremely stupid expect people to notice it.
Don't know why the focus keeps going on the sexy stuff. What about some of the worst screen-tearing you'll ever see, or the disjointed clumsy mess for the narrative, or the one-dimensional button mashing combat, or the shoehorned half-assed shooting mechanics...