nhlducks35
Member
Bruh, its a teaser for a videogame
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PT no longer downloadable in US (and EU/UK) even with license
- Thread starter bigkrev
- Start date
Given the precedential implications of this, you can't see how your perspective is short sighted and toxic?
Corronchilejano
Member
It was very good advertisement.
This advertisement was a far more effective horror game than most other titles in the last few years.
The precedent set when an interactive advertisement that a grand total of zero people paid for was removed from PSN when the game was cancelled?
Very toxic indeed.
Could the HDD in the PS4 be taken out and cloned ?
LOL, it's a teaser for a cancelled video game. Get over it.
The Lego Movie is an advertisement. What's your point?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
No.
No. The precedence of the complete removal and inability to archive digital works, goods, or art. That is precisely what I mean by being short sighted. The expansion of the idea and implications of such a decision elude you. And will continue to elude you until it's too late to preserve something you actually care about but no one else gives a shit.
Nexus Zero
Member
You're either incredibly ignorant about history and the preservation of human artistic creation or you have such a low opinion of this medium (and I'm guessing yourself) that you don't understand the wider implications of this. Which is fine, but I wouldn't act smug about it. It's embarrassing.
Jawmuncher
Member
I never tested before, but I went to the Web Store, and redownloaded it to my PS4, and it went through.
I already had it install so I don't know if that mattered.
NA btw
Mine went to waiting and then Already Downloading.
Which means nothing since all that happens is I get a reminder that it can't be downloaded.
If the owner of a particular work (in this instance, I imagine Konami) doesn't want their work archived and chose to remove it, that's their right, as much as it sucks.
Your argument doesn't "elude" me (bit cheeky to presume your argument is too much for me to handle ennit?) , I understand fully what you're implying. It's just over the top.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Now we're getting a wave of lolz its just a video game, gaiz, from the 'above it all' crowd. Piss off.
cj_iwakura
Member
Except the ones making the decision didn't create it?
So no culture should be preserved by that token.
The Talibans were right in destroying the buddha statues is what you mean?
stufte
Member
"LOL, it was just sketches for the Venus De Milo. Get over it." You don't understand art.
Nexus Zero
Member
Rights are bestowed mutually by society. No one has the inherent right to anything. So while you are, legally speaking, correct, it *is* short sighted to then throw up your hands and say "well blurgh that just sucks dunnit!" The second part to that thought is, if you actually give a shit (and maybe you don't, fair enough), acknowledge that there are directions to take society where people actually don't have that right.
sakipon
Member
I'd agree if it was just another demo of a cancelled Forza or FIFA or Tekken or something. Stuff that we've seen plenty of times with only some advancements. P.T. was pretty unique though and was recognized in the horror game genre. I wouldn't be surprised if it influences some future indie developer.
Wtf no.
Is this a new version of Godwin's Law?
I'm aware, but the ones who created it don't own it. And the people making it knew this at the time. I'm also aware how much that must damn suck for the people who did actually make it.
I work in the video game industry. Guess what? Similar stuff happens all the time. Vertical slices, demos, even near completed games get cancelled ALL THE TIME. Difference is that you just don't know about 90% of them.
Like I said, get over it with your holier than thou "preservation of human culture" attitude. At the end of the day, it's just a demo no one will talk about in a year.
Just because PT is not available to everyone whenever they want it does not mean we have lost some cultural artefact. Books have limited prints runs, paintings only have one original and often limited prints. I can't download the Mona Lisa over wifi and hang it on my living room wall, but that does not mean it has been lost. Games too have always been limited by printings.
PT still exists, it's already preserved on thousands of PS4s. It's not some cultural artefact that's been stripped from existence so nobody will experience it again.
Hans.Gruber
Banned
Great point.
Konami simply chose to stop distributing a product they no longer want to be released. Should there be laws that force companies to never discontinue a product ever? Like Pepsi being forced to still distribute Pepsi Crystal? Or BMW still making 850's?
P.T. isn't "gone" like the historic art that got destroyed by ISIS. P.T. is still available on many PS4's around the world. Anybody can watch it on Youtube like right now.
Perhaps it doesn't elude you, but you seem happy to dismiss it for no reason other than you believe the expansion of it is farfetched while the digital age is still very much fledgling and there are many uncertainties.
I don't think anyone is really arguing that Konami is acting outside of their legal rights. They are saying "it sucks" just like you are, but they want to discuss it instead of sweeping it under a rug. The fact that it's about video games is largely irrelevant.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I think the point is that if the people that built those statues wanted to pull them down, no one would have any say otherwise about preserving culture. It was their creation.
Not that I don't think it's removal is fucking stupid. I'd added it to my list and never downloaded it, and now I never can. But I don't think preservation of culture needs to extend to what leaf that culture wiped their asses with, because there are far better examples of that culture preserved.
The talibans were pretty much the owners of the statues they destroyed as they were the power in place at the time.
they didn't deem the statues worthy of preservation and destroyed it because really it wasn't art to them.
Konami is really doing the same.
Heck a less extreme example would be Lautrec's work or some of Dali's work that no one in their right mind would think it's ok to destroy.
Advertisements can be ART too.
Some of the most important artists of the last century specialized in marketing and advertisement art, from Mucha to Frazetta to Norman Rockwell to countless others.
And their legacy and impact on culture and society helped shape our worldview, even if their art was plastered across book and magazine covers, coke bottles, movie posters, comic books, or CD albums.
Actually the people that built these statues are irrelevant,
the people who owned it want it destroyed and made sure they had their way.
I doubt that the ones who built PT wanted it gone.
Regardless of our opinion on the value of games, it's still a part of culture (and a highly lucrative one).
You can be sure that if we could preserve any and all trailers of any movie we pretty much would.
Discuss? I'm all for discussion - I've never once say don't discuss it.
But the nonsensical mass hysteria "fuck u konami i hope u go bankrupt" and people pretending that their consumer rights have somehow been transgressed is not discussion.
Nor is comparing Konami removing a teaser / advertisement from PSN to the Taliban raping and savaging countries in the Middle East a decent contribution.
Corronchilejano
Member
In the main page there's a Sonic Xtreme thread, a game from almost two decades ago that was never even finished, let alone have enough content for a demo.
Ha, man, okay. I can understand disagreeing with the assessment of "it's just a teaser for a canceled game, get over it," but this seems like a bit much.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Guess I should have downloaded it when I had the chance!
stufte
Member
Hey sweet, I work in the game industry too. Guess what? I think you're wrong. Demos, cancelled games and other curiosities of our art form *should* be preserved. Preservation is important even if you don't think it is.
thetester77
Member
Some people take things too seriously. Don't get me wrong, when I heard I went and redownloaded so I have it, and if I couldn't it would have sucked but not a huge deal.
As has been mentioned already, it was a Playable Teaser for a now cancelled game, so there is nothing to tease and it was free, so they are well within their rights to remove.
If it was something I had paid for and couldn't redownload that would be a different story and would be looking for a refund.
Chill out cos this thread is becoming as big a horror as PT.
As has been mentioned already, it was a Playable Teaser for a now cancelled game, so there is nothing to tease and it was free, so they are well within their rights to remove.
If it was something I had paid for and couldn't redownload that would be a different story and would be looking for a refund.
Chill out cos this thread is becoming as big a horror as PT.
Why are you even in NeoGAF?
Video-Games are culture, they are part of our system, let's say, Nintendo takes out every copy of Super Mario Bros, ask for every copy to be handed to them and destroy every single copy with no chance to play that game anywhere else ever. Not even emulators.
It's just video-games now?
I work in the video game industry as well, and your statement is quite shortsighted and shocking to me.
"Get over it"? To hell with that. One of the reasons I'm so passionate about this industry, the ONLY industry that allows the user to be an active participant in shaping the narrative of an adventure or story on an interactive level so deeply and to truly inhabit the role and fill the shoes of another, is that I think what I and others do actually MATTERS.
"No one will talk about it in a year"?
I can promise you this: I will be talking about this game for YEARS to come.
In fact, it's been influential in my own on-going projects and inspired quite a bit of ideas on how to tackle a horror game with a limited budget in a single setting and to efficiently and effectively put limited resources to great use. It'll be a case-study for me for years, if not decades, to come.
Glitchesarecool
Member
I think this conversation is getting really out of hand for what happened.
The fact that it existed and is chronicled on Youtube means that the removal of the game isn't nearly as devastating as permanent destruction of something. Yes, it may be limited to experience personally as a gamer, but at least we knew it was around and what it meant on the whole of everything around this time. Neither end of the argument is entirely right.
It feels like people are mostly still venting against Konami at this point, which is something reaching critical mass since Kojima's leaving.
Bear in mind that while Konami may not be the direct creators, they are the owners of this work, and it is in their right to remove its access. It's unfortunate, but don't construed this as some kind of law breaking action that threatens videogames as a whole.
The fact that it existed and is chronicled on Youtube means that the removal of the game isn't nearly as devastating as permanent destruction of something. Yes, it may be limited to experience personally as a gamer, but at least we knew it was around and what it meant on the whole of everything around this time. Neither end of the argument is entirely right.
It feels like people are mostly still venting against Konami at this point, which is something reaching critical mass since Kojima's leaving.
Bear in mind that while Konami may not be the direct creators, they are the owners of this work, and it is in their right to remove its access. It's unfortunate, but don't construed this as some kind of law breaking action that threatens videogames as a whole.
Did you just compare Konami to the Taliban? Or worse, P.T. to world heritage statues?
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Just fuck everything in this wireslave world.
Digital is not faster. It's not more convenient. It's not friendlier to the consumer.
It's about control. of information.
Kids these days watch books vaporize off their Kindle and don't even feel the intrusion.
You point out that people used to be able to OWN COPIES of things, they don't care.
We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Digital is not faster. It's not more convenient. It's not friendlier to the consumer.
It's about control. of information.
Kids these days watch books vaporize off their Kindle and don't even feel the intrusion.
You point out that people used to be able to OWN COPIES of things, they don't care.
They will be appropriately desensitized so they won't notice they global search-and-replace from East Asia to Eurasia.
We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Because implying we should act with a touch more rationality instantly means I shouldn't be a part of this community? Or should GAF be an echo chamber?
I've been (I believe) within the rules, if not a little sarcastic at times.
And that's a touch different, as we'd have all paid a lot of money for Super Mario Bros. If people had paid out for PT and then had it removed, I'd understand the issue.
Edit: @below
Perhaps we've just been getting on the wrong end of the stick of each others points to a degree then. I never intended to close down any and all discussion, I just think it needs to be more rational than it is. We'll agree to disagree for now and call it that.
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