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The Incompetence of Microsoft Studios
- Thread starter LukeTim
- Start date
There have been multiple studios working on Halo for a while now.
-Ruffian Games, Saber Interactive, United Front Games and Certain Affinity on TMCC
-Vanguard Games on Spartan Strike and Spartan Assault
-343 industries on Halo 4 and Halo 5 + support/producer roles for TMCC and Spartan Strike/Assault
Halo Wars 2 is a possibility for 2016 or 2017, since the main Halo series usually takes 3 years between each installment.
Not sure if serious...
Microsoft does have a yearly iteration rhythm for both Halo and Forza. Not that this has anything to do with the subject at hand.
Black Mantis
Member
For you and others who think it's 100% Microsoft's fault they closed...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/crunch-culture-killed-ensemble-studios
Even their own staff disagree with you.
SolarMystic
Member
According to the OPs criteria, then most publishers are shady. For example, Sony: all the issues that have been surrounding The Last Guardian for years, the issues with Agent, again for years. Sony has closed more than 1 studio in the past few years. Not to mention all the high profile dev departures last year.
I don't think Sony is shady at all, but according to the OP, they must be worse than Microsoft.
EA and Ubisoft...well, that's a whole other discussion.
I don't think Sony is shady at all, but according to the OP, they must be worse than Microsoft.
EA and Ubisoft...well, that's a whole other discussion.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I dunno about "shady," but there's clearly some gross mismanagement going on.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Halo 3 - 2007
Halo Reach - 2010
Halo 1 remake - 2011
Halo 4 - 2012
Halo MCC - 2014
Forza is biannual, as is Forza Horizon. The games are nothing alike other than featuring cars and a livery editor. Only the most liberal use of the term annualized franchise would consider them the same thing, in the vein of an Assassin's Creed or a Madden. ODST, Combat Evolved, and MCC are an expansion, a port, and a collection of ports. None of them sell anywhere close to the real entries, so I don't think the Halo fanbase treats them like annualized entries.
To reiterate, MS could release a new full entry in the Halo series every year, like CoD or AC. They would make far more money, but the games would probably differentiate less between entries and fan burnout would be much more rapid.
DarthWalden
Banned
It's not "shady" it's poor management and it's a problem with every develeoper/publisher..
Take Sony for a example with TLG. There handling of fall games - a yearly delayed Driveclub that launched broken, LBP that is still broken) was incredibly poor as well.
Take Sony for a example with TLG. There handling of fall games - a yearly delayed Driveclub that launched broken, LBP that is still broken) was incredibly poor as well.
This. You forgot Halo 3 ODST and Halo Wars if you want to include spin offs in a different genre. Regardless, I don't think Halo is annualized in the traditional sense. ODST is a spin off, Wars is an RTS, 2 of the games you listed are just remasters of old games. Since 2007, we've only had 3 (4 with ODST) traditional Halo games.
Steverulez
Member
They might have bought Minecraft but lets not act like Gears wasn't something they made with Epic and made into a big franchise, Epic were (are) a big developer able to keep their IP ownership, the same happened with Bioware/Mass Effect which was made with Microsoft money and then went multi-plat after EA bought Bioware (and downhill imo, though more to do with EAs involvement than Microsofts lack of)
They made Fable with Lionhead too which is (although less so right now) a big franchise. Partnering with outside studios isn't a problem for me.
Yep. "Business" happens. I see nothing shady about it unless you have some sort of agenda.
Stilton Disco
Member
OP is definitely attributing malevolent intent to what is more believabley explained by incompetence.
The style of management favoured by Microsoft, combined with their general bullish attitude towards staff and project goals, can make them seem outright evil at times, but it's simply an extension of the style of business/management that has made them so successful in the software industry, just not being compatible with the creatively driven, more artistic nature of gaming.
Really, when you get down to it, inspite of their software roots, MS really aren't well suited as a company to heavy involvement with the games industry, full stop.
Both Sony and Nintendo entered the industry from a strong position of already being well versed in dealing with artistic, creative types. Nintendo made toys and games, and thus knew how to fuse imagination and fun together into a marketable, yet enjoyable experience. Sony meanwhile, created the Playstation division partly out of Sony Music, and thus had that knowledge of the evolution of mass consumable art, and the importance of allowing both single and collective creative visions to evolve and grow into an experience that's more enjoyable than the simple sum of it's parts.
MS really just saw an opportunity to score a profit, while setting the stage for their planned ownership of the home entertainment space, and simply bought game creators to do all the leg work for it, without anyone with any real power having a true grasp or passion for the medium, or even any relatable medium, ad it's no surprise to me that they only see success when either others cock up, or they leverage those famous cash reserves.
The style of management favoured by Microsoft, combined with their general bullish attitude towards staff and project goals, can make them seem outright evil at times, but it's simply an extension of the style of business/management that has made them so successful in the software industry, just not being compatible with the creatively driven, more artistic nature of gaming.
Really, when you get down to it, inspite of their software roots, MS really aren't well suited as a company to heavy involvement with the games industry, full stop.
Both Sony and Nintendo entered the industry from a strong position of already being well versed in dealing with artistic, creative types. Nintendo made toys and games, and thus knew how to fuse imagination and fun together into a marketable, yet enjoyable experience. Sony meanwhile, created the Playstation division partly out of Sony Music, and thus had that knowledge of the evolution of mass consumable art, and the importance of allowing both single and collective creative visions to evolve and grow into an experience that's more enjoyable than the simple sum of it's parts.
MS really just saw an opportunity to score a profit, while setting the stage for their planned ownership of the home entertainment space, and simply bought game creators to do all the leg work for it, without anyone with any real power having a true grasp or passion for the medium, or even any relatable medium, ad it's no surprise to me that they only see success when either others cock up, or they leverage those famous cash reserves.
intheinbetween
Member
8 Days, Getaway 3, or Sony's Liverpool studio...
I don't know. I feel that as long as there is no money involved it is up to the consumer to keep their expectations in check.
In the case of MCC of course they need to do good by them, but in the other cases... shit happens. If none of those projects materialize it hurts them more than it hurts people who can just spend their money elsewhere. I don't see anything "shady" about that.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
I kinda see where OP is coming from. Announcing projects and teams even way before they have anything tangible outside of a CG trailer can be seen as a ploy to create buyers now and if they fail to deliver then at least they got some folks to buy the console. I mean imagine MS E3 last year without the Scalebound, Crackdown, or Phantom Dust trailers.
That said it is just as likely mismanagement is at play. However, how trustworthy will the CG trailers be at this years E3 from MS?
That said it is just as likely mismanagement is at play. However, how trustworthy will the CG trailers be at this years E3 from MS?
More than can be said for Konami with the Contra reveal from a few years ago. Game never even existed. I'm more concerned about situations like that than proof of concept trailers for what studios are working on behind the scenes.
I'm inclined to feel the same way toward the Shin Megami Tensi x Fire Emblem reveal as well, but as it stands Nintendo says it's still happening. I don't believe that for a minute, but for the time being I will give them the benefit of the doubt.
thewhitehawk
Member
I don't think it's as uninformed as it simply differs from your own.
Let's see, there was FASA studios who made the Mech Commander games, Digital Anvil who made Wing Commander, Ensemble Studios of Age of Empires fame, Rare (and I think you grossly undermined how much of Rare's potential was wasted on Microsoft), Lionhead Studios and Aces Studio (Flight Simulator). I'm sure I forgot a few.
Rare was the one of the most proficient and innovative studios back when they were acquired. Lionhead was spearheaded by one of the most innovative minds in the industry, yes one with his own very public faults, but Microsoft took that mind and had him shovel out sequel after sequel after sequel and still to this day, all that Lionhead made other than Black and White was Fable sequels and spinoffs. While I'm willing to write off some of their other closures as simply being studios whose only experience was in making games that weren't as viable or worth maintaining anymore, the only developers whose work I really enjoyed and worked exclusively with Microsoft have since expressed resentment for doing so or left them as soon as another opportunity arose.
If you want to talk about third-party relationships then you should consider how Microsoft treated independent developers in the previous cycle. They got some nice games, some of them exclusive. But the way they obtained them and the way they handled and treated some of those developers was anything but pretty.
Maybe I just have too much of a negative bias towards Microsoft to see the good in their work, but the combination of missteps they've taken, the way that they as a general company handle businesses combined with the fact that they've withered away, killed or mistreated some of my favorite developers and studios, the way they market themselves and their products aligned next to energy drinks and Doritos makes it very hard for me to look at them objectively.
Sony has done immensely shitty things in the past. They completely lost me as a consumer for many years. But at the end of the day, they've always provided excellent software and a lot of diversity from a great number of studios all around the world. Some of them failed, yes. Some of them were closed yes. But when most studios, even independent ones speak of working with Sony it's very rare to see anything but praise or compliments, whereas with Microsoft that wasn't the case and it still isn't thanks to things like the "parity clause" and a long long list of breadcrumb reports.
justsomeguy
Member
edit - nvm - I cba calling out post histories even if they are mildly interesting.
GlamFM
Banned
This is NeoGAF though,
"where every cancelled game would have been the greatest game of all time"
Terbinator
Member
Thanks for the detective work lol.
So them not showing gameplay footage of Crackdown or Gears of War yet is shady/incompetent?
There's certainly some potentially valid criticism to throw at how Microsoft has handled some of their studios, but it seems you're really trying too hard to come up with criticisms to fill out your theory and that's not a very strong way to form an argument.
There's certainly some potentially valid criticism to throw at how Microsoft has handled some of their studios, but it seems you're really trying too hard to come up with criticisms to fill out your theory and that's not a very strong way to form an argument.
Natureboy99
Banned
Their first part studios plain stink. They ruined Rare. Third party games are their only good exclusives, and being way behind in second place, they have to pay out the nose to get them
Just let me add this to the conversation please, since there is always a reverse of the medal and treating decisions and look at them just from one side seems a little bit selective.
Victoria/Ensemble closing? Well, you act like as if MS is closing studios just for fun, which obviously is not right. With every closing there are reasons why things are happening. Especially in the case of Ensemble the studio was a nightmare in terms of performance, costs and value. There are multiple articles on the web where developers even agree with this. Sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions. Victoria was stucked in early developement stages and incubation for far too long with zero output and no concrete results. When people lose their jobs - this is a very bad thing. For the individuals these decisions suck. It will always suck. And whatever the reason are - it will still suck for every single one. For the general decision seen from a business standpoint itself - there are always reasons prior to things happening. Like always in life sometimes these reasons are justified - and sometimes not so much.
Crackdown is in full-production. Just give it some time please. I try to give as much updates in the Crackdown thread as I can at the moment. Rest assured we are working super hard to deliver something big. I can talk much more about Crackdown with you guys later this year. I like having an open discussion with the community - so I hope that's how we can handle things later
Victoria/Ensemble closing? Well, you act like as if MS is closing studios just for fun, which obviously is not right. With every closing there are reasons why things are happening. Especially in the case of Ensemble the studio was a nightmare in terms of performance, costs and value. There are multiple articles on the web where developers even agree with this. Sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions. Victoria was stucked in early developement stages and incubation for far too long with zero output and no concrete results. When people lose their jobs - this is a very bad thing. For the individuals these decisions suck. It will always suck. And whatever the reason are - it will still suck for every single one. For the general decision seen from a business standpoint itself - there are always reasons prior to things happening. Like always in life sometimes these reasons are justified - and sometimes not so much.
Crackdown is in full-production. Just give it some time please. I try to give as much updates in the Crackdown thread as I can at the moment. Rest assured we are working super hard to deliver something big. I can talk much more about Crackdown with you guys later this year. I like having an open discussion with the community - so I hope that's how we can handle things later
Black Mantis
Member
And if they had, it would've been showing them too early when they aren't anywhere near release.
justsomeguy
Member
The one about Wii U being more powerful than the xbox one was amusing... I just can't be bothered getting into "he said, she said".
John Bender
Banned
Yeah, but it would have been a 20+ yr thing, as it seems.When I take my rose colored glasses off, the Bungie story is about money. Destiny, like Halo is a 10+ yr thing, it just happens to be THEIR 10+ yr thing
Forcing a studio to make one IP (sequels) forever is horrible.
It would bore me to death and the games would get worse and worse.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I had hoped there would be more substance.
Oh well.
Keep shooting for the stars, kid.
Oh well.
Keep shooting for the stars, kid.
Well, my point was that you do get a Forza every year, either Motorsports or Horizon. And you get at least one kind of Halo every single year since... 2008 ? Not that this is a bad thing, or that the annualization reached CoD or AC level, but it's still there.
And no, I don't think Microsoft could (or should for that matter) pump out "true" Halo games faster. At least not that easily. Activision has multiple big teams working on new iterations in parralel, Ubisoft's workforce on Assassin's Creed is in the thousand, ... Microsoft simply doesn't have that kind of manpower in their first party studios.
Baron_Calamity
Member
Doesn't Microsoft have a bunch of studios still cracking away? Even forming new ones as we speak?
Here's what's really shady about the whole Halo thing:
- Microsoft certifies a clearly broken and unfinished game, allowing it be released.
- TV and other advertisements and promotions continue even after the game is revealed to be broken. Microsoft and 343 knowingly sell a broken product to consumers.
- Microsoft makes no comments or acknowledgements of the issue.
- Microsoft does not intervene despite 343's poor management, lack of communication, and total disappearance of the game's executive producer.
- No comment from Phil Spencer on the disaster of a console-selling (and bundled in Europe) flagship title, despite previously having been quoted as saying something along the lines of "if we lose our way with Halo, we lose our way with Xbox."
- No official recall or refund program for a product which remains broken over 100 days after launch. Retail consumers left without options while Microsoft and 343 enjoy several hundred million dollars of sales.
- Microsoft includes Master Chief Collection in upcoming sale promotion, thus continuing to promote a product they know is broken, with no warning provided to potential buyers.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Yeah they literally announced it in the e3 briefing. They had Dave Jones on stage. Now we don't know if cloudgine is solely developing it but we know they are seriously involved. A lot of what OP is on about is just speculation about studio closures when he has no idea what happened. There is no defense about how MCC released. That was likely devs hitting a hard deadline and MS deciding to green light it. But then again I don't know.
HigherLevel
Member
MS isn't "shady" with their 1st party stuff, they just don't have a clue on how to manage things.
Yet if you go by some people one would think that MS shut them down for shits and giggles.
I H8 Memes
Member
People can argue back and forth on whether or not this is a "shady" business practice from MS. It is clear that MS has done it over and over to try to convince gamers that this time they are really going to support their system with a strong 1st party library.
But it does point to the reason why I will never buy a MS console. Serious first party studios are almost non-existent on Xbox. Always have been. Instead they throw around money to buy the best 3rd party exclusives at the beginning of a generation to get people to buy their console, then abandon even 3rd party exclusivity once they have the hardware numbers they are looking for.
Nobody should be shocked that Sony is leading this generation. The majority of gamers choose Playstation by default. That's what MS is up against and has never set themselves up to succeed against it. If Sony releases a console at the right time and price to compete with MS then they will always win. And it's because people know that Sony's 1st party studios are actually a real thing and they are going to be making games the whole generation that you wont be able to find on an Xbox.
But it does point to the reason why I will never buy a MS console. Serious first party studios are almost non-existent on Xbox. Always have been. Instead they throw around money to buy the best 3rd party exclusives at the beginning of a generation to get people to buy their console, then abandon even 3rd party exclusivity once they have the hardware numbers they are looking for.
Nobody should be shocked that Sony is leading this generation. The majority of gamers choose Playstation by default. That's what MS is up against and has never set themselves up to succeed against it. If Sony releases a console at the right time and price to compete with MS then they will always win. And it's because people know that Sony's 1st party studios are actually a real thing and they are going to be making games the whole generation that you wont be able to find on an Xbox.
walltowall
Member
Why people thing because they did that with tomb raider, they are doing it with all the exclusive?
And they are supporting the system, just because they changed a studio (amd we don't all the facts about why this happen) it doesn't mean that the game its not coming.
statham
Member
Just let me add this to the conversation please, since there is always a reverse of the medal and treating decisions and look at them just from one side seems a little bit selective.
Victoria/Ensemble closing? Well, you act like as if MS is closing studios just for fun, which obviously is not right. With every closing there are reasons why things are happening. Especially in the case of Ensemble the studio was a nightmare in terms of performance, costs and value. There are multiple articles on the web where developers even agree with this. Sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions. Victoria was stucked in early developement stages and incubation for far too long with zero output and no concrete results. When people lose their jobs - this is a very bad thing. For the individuals these decisions suck. It will always suck. And whatever the reason are - it will still suck for every single one. For the general decision seen from a business standpoint itself - there are always reasons prior to things happening. Like always in life sometimes these reasons are justified - and sometimes not so much.
Crackdown is in full-production. Just give it some time please. I try to give as much updates in the Crackdown thread as I can at the moment. Rest assured we are working super hard to deliver something big. I can talk much more about Crackdown with you guys later this year. I like having an open discussion with the community - so I hope that's how we can handle things later
Nice to see crackdown in full production, can't wait for E3.
Love Deterrence
Member
[removed, was joking but someone may take it the wrong way and I don't need dat drama in my life]
Because, besides a few exception (japanese games on PS4 because Xbox One is non existent, indies focusing on a single platform), no developper/editor will build a big exclusive game without a big check in return. It's common sense.
Anyway, his point isn't that they aren't supporting the console, on the contrary. He is just assuming that they will stop supporting it with third party exclusives after a while.
I'd say that none of these are even close.
The Last Guardian obviously had been undergoing a rough development process for a long time. Driveclub, from what I'm aware, has been perfectly playable for a while now. Killzone, I don't even know what you're talking about, unless you mean the MP resolution, which they never lied about.
It's still 1080p, just that it uses a unique technique to achieve that resolution.
Just let me add this to the conversation please, since there is always a reverse of the medal and treating decisions and look at them just from one side seems a little bit selective.
Victoria/Ensemble closing? Well, you act like as if MS is closing studios just for fun, which obviously is not right. With every closing there are reasons why things are happening. Especially in the
of Ensemble the studio was a nightmare in terms of performance, costs and value. There are multiple articles on the web where developers even agree with this. Sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions. Victoria was stucked in early developement stages and incubation for far too long with zero output and no concrete results. When people lose their jobs - this is a very bad thing. For the individuals these decisions suck. It will always suck. And whatever the reason are - it will still suck for every single one. For the general decision seen from a business standpoint itself - there are always reasons prior to things happening. Like always in life sometimes these reasons are justified - and sometimes not so much.
Crackdown is in full-production. Just give it some time please. I try to give as much updates in the Crackdown thread as I can at the moment. Rest assured we are working super hard to deliver something big. I can talk much more about Crackdown with you guys later this year. I like having an open discussion with the community - so I hope that's how we can handle things later
You never fail to deliver.
Looking forward to see your work
Take care of CD please
Based on how Mattrick ran things, you do know that he isn't there now right. Also the claim that "lol M$ has no first party" that he made has no basis in reality.
HighResTomato
Member
Such hyperbole ITT. Company is shady becaus they dont disclose company dealings in public.
Crackdown developer has been announced.
Phantom Dust still in development.
MCC was a managerial clusterfuck
Other than that they are not any different from other publishers.
Crackdown developer has been announced.
Phantom Dust still in development.
MCC was a managerial clusterfuck
Other than that they are not any different from other publishers.