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[joecanada]

I'm not comparing murder and this. What i'm saying is that people get murder sentences less than what people are asking of these kids to get. The two are nowhere near close. Also you say a global cyber attack involving financial theft. Well I can tell you without a doubt that any money that was taken was not the responsibility of the card holder. That's why CC companies have insurance. It doesn't make what they did right at all. But there's no point in making these kids out to be Bernie Madoff here.

They will pay for their crimes. But we don't need to create a thread where the sole purpose is to come in and condemn these kids to a life that I can almost certainly guarantee 95% of you have never experienced. They're going to experience the worst years of their lives coming up that's for sure.

Let he who is without sin...



You see, as an adult, people are going to have different opinions. What you're going to have to do is discuss and try and understand those differing opinions. You can't just call people out as a troll. Good luck in life my friend.

there's a ton of people out there who have years worth of financial difficulties from people stealing their CC info. Not everyone gets the magic "oh you're okay buddy we'll just wipe your credit record clean for you" treatment.

these scum definitely planned their crimes out over a long period of time, its not like they walked into a corner store and stole a candy bar. they affected millions of people and laughed about it. they also showed no remorse at any time.

"don't ruin their poor little lives" they already made that choice on their own. they can get a lawyer to defend them.

of course most have never experienced prison. most people don't deserve to. I don't feel any pity for them at all. they got caught now its time to live the life you chose.

 

[SeanTSC]

They're young and did stupid shit. I hope they don't actually have to serve 10 years in prison. That's ridiculous.

Given that their groups performed SWATings, I hope they get the max on every single charge. That shit is basically attempted murder and anyone involved deserves no leniency.

 

[The Lamonster]

Given that their groups performed SWATings, I hope they get the max on every single charge. That shit is basically attempted murder and anyone involved deserves no leniency.

Yup. People can get killed in swattings, and people have already lost their pets to them.

 

[Benedict]

https://youtu.be/yYMRjnM6j6w?t=25s

 

[adj_noun]

Is Lizard Squad the group that tweeted a bomb threat about John Smedley's plane and forced it to land?

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I'm not comparing murder and this. What i'm saying is that people get murder sentences less than what people are asking of these kids to get. The two are nowhere near close. Also you say a global cyber attack involving financial theft. Well I can tell you without a doubt that any money that was taken was not the responsibility of the card holder. That's why CC companies have insurance. It doesn't make what they did right at all. But there's no point in making these kids out to be Bernie Madoff here.

They will pay for their crimes. But we don't need to create a thread where the sole purpose is to come in and condemn these kids to a life that I can almost certainly guarantee 95% of you have never experienced. They're going to experience the worst years of their lives coming up that's for sure.

Let he who is without sin...



You see, as an adult, people are going to have different opinions. What you're going to have to do is discuss and try and understand those differing opinions. You can't just call people out as a troll. Good luck in life my friend.

These "kids", as you call them, are not victims.
They are legal adults that made a conscious decision to commit credit card theft. Doesn't matter if the cardholder pays, insurance pays, whatever - it's still theft.They also gloated about it, further confirming not only that they were well aware of what they were doing, but were proud of it. To my understanding they also SWATed, which is serious and should not be taken lightly.

I doubt they'll get the max penalty, but the penalty should still be harsh and serve as a strong example to others out there that think they are untouchable and can do shit like this.


Just for the sake of discussion, joms, what punishment do you feel fits this crime?

 

[poodaddy]

The one without the ridiculously long name.

Definitely looks like someone who needed a hobby.

looks about right

throw the book at em

I never got this thing with shaming these scummy assholes for how they look or saying that they fit the bill or something; that's nothing more than stereotyping and it just shows how shallow you are. There's good reasons to dislike the guy that has nothing to do with what he looks like, and having things like his appearance made fun of is probably one of the things that turned him into an asshole in the first place.

 

[Brix]

Smackdown the book at them.

 

[ToD_]

The one without the ridiculously long name.

Definitely looks like someone who needed a hobby.

I don't think that's the one with the long name. From the article:

"Buchta was arrested last month in Maryland and was slated to make an initial court appearance in Chicago on Wednesday. Authorities in the Netherlands arrested van Rooy last month and he remains in custody there."

That picture is definitely taken in Chicago, and that's where Zachary Buchta made his court appearance. Bradley Jan Willem Van Rooy remains in custody in the Netherlands.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Looks like he just cant wait to drop the soap

Hope they rot...they fucked up my quality time

It sure is cool to want people to be sexually violated in prison

 

[joms5]

there's a ton of people out there who have years worth of financial difficulties from people stealing their CC info. Not everyone gets the magic "oh you're okay buddy we'll just wipe your credit record clean for you" treatment.

these scum definitely planned their crimes out over a long period of time, its not like they walked into a corner store and stole a candy bar. they affected millions of people and laughed about it. they also showed no remorse at any time.

"don't ruin their poor little lives" they already made that choice on their own. they can get a lawyer to defend them.

of course most have never experienced prison. most people don't deserve to. I don't feel any pity for them at all. they got caught now its time to live the life you chose.

Good lord. I never said "don't ruin their poor little lives". haha
Quit putting words in my mouth.

In terms of false credit card charges, look up the Fair Billing Act. No one has incurred financial difficulties due to stolen CC numbers. The federal government has put a cap on the liability that a card holder is responsible for.

The fact that these were stolen through an online merchant makes it even less of the card holders liability. So no individual was affected by this. The company took all the loss.

No much more to say about this. I'm in agreement that these kids need to be punished. But i'm not sitting here making jokes about them getting raped in the prison system because I couldn't play games online.

That's my issue with these threads.

 

[LifEndz]

Damn, it was all good just a few years ago. Hard to express sympathy when they haven't yet expressed contrition. Hope they and others learn from this.

 

[danmaku]

Credit card fraud accusation seems much worse to me than the ddos attacks, at least in terms of effects on other people's lives.

Edit: or maybe not. Seems like the cc system is better than I thought it was.

 

[Marvel]

Rekt, lmao.

 

[SeanTSC]

Good lord. I never said "don't ruin their poor little lives". haha
Quit putting words in my mouth.

In terms of false credit card charges, look up the Fair Billing Act. No one has incurred financial difficulties due to stolen CC numbers. The federal government has put a cap on the liability that a card holder is responsible for.

The fact that these were stolen through an online merchant makes it even less of the card holders liability. So no individual was affected by this. The company took all the loss.

No much more to say about this. I'm in agreement that these kids need to be punished. But i'm not sitting here making jokes about them getting raped in the prison system because I couldn't play games online.

That's my issue with these threads.

But the thing is these guys did waaaaaaay more than just interrupt some online game services. They were involved in pretty horrible things like calling in bomb threats on a plane, doxxing and harassing people, and SWATing. Downplaying how awful these guys are by hand-waving their shit away with "lol games" is really shitty and insensitive to the real damage that these people caused. They fucked with peoples lives and these groups basically facilitated Attempted Murder.

 

[Creaking]

Nice to see some justice being served. Asshats besmirching the good name of common reptiles with their senseless antics.

 

[joms5]

These "kids", as you call them, are not victims.
They are legal adults that made a conscious decision to commit credit card theft. Doesn't matter if the cardholder pays, insurance pays, whatever - it's still theft.They also gloated about it, further confirming not only that they were well aware of what they were doing, but were proud of it. To my understanding they also SWATed, which is serious and should not be taken lightly.

I doubt they'll get the max penalty, but the penalty should still be harsh and serve as a strong example to others out there that think they are untouchable and can do shit like this.


Just for the sake of discussion, joms, what punishment do you feel fits this crime?

I am in agreement the punishment should be harsh. But for someone who has never been in the system, how can any of you say what is and is not harsh? The other thing that I find hilarious is that you actually believe that harsh prison sentences actually deter people from breaking the law. Which has been shown is not the case!!!!!

So this isn't going to dissuade any other people from doing the same thing. Sorry.

I think depending on a number of factors (if they have previous criminal records, if they've been abiding by their bail conditions, time in custody, education and possibility of rehabilitation) 3-5 years in prison, 3 years probation.

 

[Diprosalic]

The one without the ridiculously long name.

Definitely looks like someone who needed a hobby.

He did wrong and should serve some time but come on guys, he is a human being treat him with some respect...

..at least give him a Coke.

 

[joms5]

But the thing is these guys did waaaaaaay more than just interrupt some online game services. They were involved in pretty horrible things like calling in bomb threats on a plane, doxxing and harassing people, and SWATing. Downplaying how awful these guys are by hand-waving their shit away with "lol games" is really shitty and insensitive to the real damage that these people caused. They fucked with peoples lives and these groups basically facilitated Attempted Murder.

I was just going off what it said they were charged with in the article. Nowhere did it mention "calling in bomb threats on a plane, doxxing and harassing people, and SWATing".

So I can't speak to that.

And I will say this one more time, I'm not defending these guys nor do I think they should not be punished.

I just don't think it's something to celebrate. That's all.

If you want to come and say, justice has been served. Fine. If you want to say serves them right. Okay. But the posts about rape and "hope these guys rot in hell" are horrible to me. I just don't see why that is necessary. That's all.

He did wrong and should serve some time but come on guys, he is a human being treat him with some respect...

..at least give him a Coke.

Is this a bad time to mention i'm a Pepsi man?

 

[CertifiedFP]

So how extensive were their damages, does anyone know?

They ruined muh gaems for a few hours. Fucking capital offense right there.

Oh yeah and a bunch of other nasty shit that is actually important. Bomb threats, fraud, and such. These were the guys who were harassing Smedley, right?

 

[SeanTSC]

I was just going off what it said they were charged with in the article. Nowhere did it mention "calling in bomb threats on a plane, doxxing and harassing people, and SWATing".

So I can't speak to that.

And I will say this one more time, I'm not defending these guys nor do I think they should not be punished.

I just don't think it's something to celebrate. That's all.

If you want to come and say, justice has been served. Fine. If you want to say serves them right. Okay. But the posts about rape and "hope these guys rot in hell" are horrible to me. I just don't see why that is necessary. That's all.



Is this a bad time to mention i'm a Pepsi man?

Well, being unfamiliar with the situation is fine, but these groups did so much more than what the article says and it's pretty well known. Personally, I think that if you're involved in all the things that these groups were a part of, especially Attempted Murder, then I have absolutely no sympathy for you and the prison rape jokes and hopes that they rot in hell aren't something that bothers me in that context. My empathy goes out the window when you try to take someone's life.

 

[Tecnniqe]

They ruined muh gaems for a few hours. Fucking capital offense right there.

Oh yeah and a bunch of other nasty shit that is actually important. Bomb threats and such. These were the guys who were harassing Smedley, right?

And do you know how much revenue is lost during the downtime?

 

[BRocknRolla]

Ehh I gotta say I don't really get the vitriol either; really the worst thing to come out of this is some lost revenue, but do we have any statistics on exactly how much that might be? It's pretty easy to flag and charge back a fraudulent charge in most cases, and some people couldn't play videogames online for a day. I'm not trying to say they shouldn't go to prison, but ten years sounds a little absurd to me. I'd say 3 or 4 years max.

Edit: Also "cyber terrorists?" Come on. You guys are acting like they hijacked some drones or something.

The stacking of harms is an interesting question. Lost revenue on the days it occurred where people might otherwise have been more primed to spend money on the networks, actual lost funds from people subject to credit card fraud, spent funds to fix those charges after they came through, the cost and work-hours involved in attempted to stop the cyber attacks. We could easily reach, and likely are, talking about millions of dollars in revenue. It's not insignificant.

I do agree that the "cyber terrorists" moniker seems misplaced and heavily charged. Perhaps they were involved in some things I'm not privy to though.

Looks like he just cant wait to drop the soap

Hope they rot...they fucked up my quality time

Perhaps you thought the "" exempted you from the very poor taste of your joke. It did not.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

So this isn't going to dissuade any other people from doing the same thing. Sorry.

I gotta disagree here, joms.

Whether it dissuades one hundred people or a single person, it still counts for something. There's no possible way you can honestly believe a harsh sentence won't make some 18-20some year old stop for a moment, consider these Lizard Squad dipshits, and think "Hmmm... yeah... not worth it."
I can only speak for myself, but there were times in my thick-headed adolescence where I considered doing something I knew was bad, got close to doing it, was able to remember serious consequences of others before me, and chose another path.


The alternative is slaps on the wrist, which certainly don't dissuade people that are still committed to doing shit like this.

edit: and, btw, I think your punishment suggestion would be both effective and reasonable... so I agree with that.

 

[CertifiedFP]

I gotta disagree here, joms.

Whether it dissuades one hundred people or a single person, it still counts for something. There's no possible way you can honestly believe a harsh sentence won't make some 18-20some year old stop for a moment, consider these Lizard Squad dipshits, and think "Hmmm... yeah... not worth it."
I can only speak for myself, but there were times in my thick-headed adolescence where I considered doing something I knew was bad, got close to doing it, was able to remember serious consequences of others before me, and chose another path.


The alternative is slaps on the wrist, which certainly don't dissuade people that are still committed to doing shit like this.

They're never dissuaded.

They always think "I'm a better hacker than they were, they'll never find me."

And then they always get caught.

Rinse/Repeat.

 

[joecanada]

Good lord. I never said "don't ruin their poor little lives". haha
Quit putting words in my mouth.

In terms of false credit card charges, look up the Fair Billing Act. No one has incurred financial difficulties due to stolen CC numbers. The federal government has put a cap on the liability that a card holder is responsible for.

The fact that these were stolen through an online merchant makes it even less of the card holders liability. So no individual was affected by this. The company took all the loss.

No much more to say about this. I'm in agreement that these kids need to be punished. But i'm not sitting here making jokes about them getting raped in the prison system because I couldn't play games online.

That's my issue with these threads.

yeah I get your point. but the fair billing act doesn't help a person instantly repair their damaged credit if there was a credit card out there in their name for a long time which they didn't know about. damaged credit can take years to repair. that can affect someone buying a home, car, everything.

 

[BlackClouds]

Throw them under the jail, no excuses.

 

[B1gg_Randall]

they knew what they were doing, they are 19 for cryin out loud. Time to face consequences. This "too young" bullshit is a lame excuse. If they were 9 years old sure....not 19.

Exactly..

 

[TheJollyCorner]

They're never dissuaded.

They always think "I'm a better hacker than they were, they'll never find me."

And then they always get caught.

Rinse/Repeat.

Well, I mean there are people out there that think they are more clever than everyone else and still try robbing banks or escaping high-speed chases from cops.
Obviously there'll be some that let their egos get in the way of their common sense.

But - again... all of them?

Maybe I'm just out of touch with cyber-crime culture. :/

 

[Wyndstryker]

Throw the book at these lowlifes.

Hell the whole library should he thrown

 

[BRocknRolla]

I'm not comparing murder and this. What i'm saying is that people get murder sentences less than what people are asking of these kids to get. The two are nowhere near close. Also you say a global cyber attack involving financial theft. Well I can tell you without a doubt that any money that was taken was not the responsibility of the card holder. That's why CC companies have insurance. It doesn't make what they did right at all. But there's no point in making these kids out to be Bernie Madoff here.

I didn't think you were comparing murder to this. You were comparing sentencing in a murder case to sentencing in this. I was saying that the complexity of sentencing especially in a murder case is so far from what we're talking about here that it isn't a reasonable comparison. It's a false comparison that doesn't bear exploration. If you find the idea that someone could serve more time for a financial crime that a crime like murder offensive, I don't disagree, but that's a question that a person could spend their whole life trying to find an answer to, and isn't one that can take the conversation anywhere here.

Likewise, regardless of whether card holders were actually harmed by the attack in a financial manner, though I would certainly say there's more harm here than just that to these people, it doesn't include the massive number of working hours, lost revenue, and every other cost that came with setting the whole mess right. We're talking about massive amounts of money here. I'm not saying it's a Bernie Madoff level issue, but it's definitely not a small one either.

I'm also not making any claim about the amount of time these people should be getting; as I said these are complex questions. I am arguing against downplaying this as something silly we should simply turn-the-other-cheek for.

They're never dissuaded.

They always think "I'm a better hacker than they were, they'll never find me."

And then they always get caught.

Rinse/Repeat.

Hard to quantify though it may be, these sort of things absolutely do have an effect on people who might choose whether or not to do it in the future. While people downloading music may be prevalent in some places, I guarantee you, the lawsuits and letters record companies sent to hundreds if not thousands of college students threatening or taking legal action against them for downloading music absolutely drastically reduced the amount of illegal downloading on college campuses in the US. Does it still happen? Of course, but not in the same way it did before. It had the desired effect.

 

[Mr.Monitor]

The stacking of harms is an interesting question. Lost revenue on the days it occurred where people might otherwise have been more primed to spend money on the networks, actual lost funds from people subject to credit card fraud, spent funds to fix those charges after they came through, the cost and work-hours involved in attempted to stop the cyber attacks. We could easily reach, and likely are, talking about millions of dollars in revenue. It's not insignificant.

I do agree that the "cyber terrorists" moniker seems misplaced and heavily charged. Perhaps they were involved in some things I'm not privy to though.

Fair enough, as someone who used to work in IT I'm fully aware of how even simple breaches in security can rack up serious costs for a corporation, but I'm genuinely curious as to how much damage these guys actually did. If we are talking millions then obviously a harsher sentence is in order, but when you consider the actual action in play it's difficult for me to justify huge sentences on a mental level. Maybe I'm overly sympathetic/biased, I can definitely empathize with being a punk teen with too much computer know-how, not that these guys needed much for what they did.

 

[DR2K]

So they won't be on PSN/XBLA this holiday? Sad.

 

[Omegasquash]

It sure is cool to want people to be sexually violated in prison

Personally, I hope they get a bit of prison time, and a mean case of diarrhea every now and again.

And I hope they stub the ever loving fuck out of their toes.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Looks like he just cant wait to drop the soap

Hope they rot...they fucked up my quality time

Pretty sure this trash-tier humor is bannable.

 

[cakely]

You see, as an adult, people are going to have different opinions. What you're going to have to do is discuss and try and understand those differing opinions. You can't just call people out as a troll. Good luck in life my friend.

I believe that you're continuing to troll this thread, and I absolutely can call you out as a troll. There's no point in attempting to have a reasonable discussion with you, because that will simply give you the attention you're seeking.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

You know what, good. Throw the book at them.

 

[HoodWinked]

its really unfortunate that ddosing is so relatively easy for the kind of impact that it can cause.

probably the single most high impact to ease ratio. if only it was something that was much more difficult to do at least then it would be a less common occurrence and irresponsible kids wouldn't be able to perform these kinds of attacks.

 

[meltingparappa]

Looks like he just cant wait to drop the soap

Hope they rot...they fucked up my quality time

He can't wait to drop the soap?

He looks like a homosexual welcoming a prison rape?

Huh?

Hell of a punishment for a white collar crime that isn't even technically theft.

 

[joms5]

I believe that you're continuing to troll this thread, and I absolutely can call you out as a troll. There's no point in attempting to have a reasonable discussion with you, because that will simply give you the attention you're seeking.

You like just throwing that word around don't you?

In fact just yesterday...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=219178199&postcount=41

 

[Velcro Fly]

Glad they got caught. Throw the book at them both please.

 

[Jmille99]

You know what, good. Throw the book at them.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Can't say I'm bothered by them going to prison. Maybe it'll deter other morons who think they're free to harm others without penalty.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

damn, that seems harsh. Prison time really isn't necessary....

 

[Yazzees]

How surprising that it was a couple teens whose actions entailed no real technical expertise whatsoever. /s

Feels like I read this exact story every year or two.

 

[Xenus]

damn, that seems harsh. Prison time really isn't necessary....

It sure is necessary. They used stolen credit card info to pay for what is likely millions of dollars worth of financial interruptions and that's before we get into their attempts to ruin peoples lives. Prison time plus internet prescriptions is more than called for in this situation. This isn't some kid taking down someone's myspace page for a day...

 

[Instro]

Don't really care about the ddos stuff. The bomb threats, swatting, credit fraud, etc., are serious issues that warrant a few years in prison.

I would imagine they will get a deal to squeel on others, and/or assisting in their capture, which is better than making an example of these two.

 

[MageBoySA]

Good lord. I never said "don't ruin their poor little lives". haha
Quit putting words in my mouth.

In terms of false credit card charges, look up the Fair Billing Act. No one has incurred financial difficulties due to stolen CC numbers. The federal government has put a cap on the liability that a card holder is responsible for.

The fact that these were stolen through an online merchant makes it even less of the card holders liability. So no individual was affected by this. The company took all the loss.

What if someone's bank cancelled their credit card due to fraudulent charges, They didn't get a new card fast enough and they had to pay late fees on multiple bills because they live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to pay things early? Or maybe they had an account cancelled because of non payment and were forced to pay an early termination fee? The Fair Billing Act protects you from things being done with your card, but not from the things that happen when you wait for your card to be replaced.

Edit: Or being unable to pay for gas and food, because you didn't have any money, and work hours that leave you unable to go to the bank to take money out. And if I sound like I went through this, well, it's because I did.

 

[Akronis]

Good lord. I never said "don't ruin their poor little lives". haha
Quit putting words in my mouth.

In terms of false credit card charges, look up the Fair Billing Act. No one has incurred financial difficulties due to stolen CC numbers. The federal government has put a cap on the liability that a card holder is responsible for.

The fact that these were stolen through an online merchant makes it even less of the card holders liability. So no individual was affected by this. The company took all the loss.

No much more to say about this. I'm in agreement that these kids need to be punished. But i'm not sitting here making jokes about them getting raped in the prison system because I couldn't play games online.

That's my issue with these threads.

Cool so because the individuals weren't affected (as you say), the companies should just deal with it and move on because who gives a shit about them, right?

 

[jon bones]

I never got this thing with shaming these scummy assholes for how they look or saying that they fit the bill or something; that's nothing more than stereotyping and it just shows how shallow you are. There's good reasons to dislike the guy that has nothing to do with what he looks like, and having things like his appearance made fun of is probably one of the things that turned him into an asshole in the first place.

that beard is a choice

Spoiler

getting teased in grade school isn't really a great way to justify stealing credit cards

I'm in agreement that these kids need to be punished. But i'm not sitting here making jokes about them getting raped in the prison system because I couldn't play games online.

don't worry, those people will be banned as those jokes are (rightfully) against TOS