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[ChainsawFilms]

I'll record one later, someone else is using the TV right now. But I did test that too, and there was a dead-zone. Not a huge one, though.

Thanks. I'll see if I can get on the PS4 later to try myself.

Your video clearly demonstrates though that, regardless of deadzone or not, there's a huge amount of input latency. The analogue had returned to center before the screen moved!!

Just for piece of mind it may be worth maxing sensitivity and running the same tests, in case something really weird is going on, other than just simple latency.

 

[theDeeDubs]

I felt Mordor had bad input lag too. I just assumed it was the deadzone/acceleration on the DS4 sticks. They feel nice, but they seem poorly tuned.

 

[-griffy-]

Yep, a great example of what playing the game is like. Latency in both third and first person. It's simply more manageable in third person.

Can you run a video where you hold the analogue a few mm so we can get confirmation on deadzone.

Here, just shot a video showing the deadzone and how it's not notably larger than any other game, but the movement speed is stupidly slow until you move the stick farther. The end result is roughly the same, you need to move the stick farther than you should have to in order to get adequate response, but it's not the deadzone itself that is really the issue in this case:
http://youtu.be/6l7gK_JpYk8

I felt Mordor had bad input lag too. I just assumed it was the deadzone/acceleration on the DS4 sticks. They feel nice, but they seem poorly tuned.

Definitely not the DS4 sticks themselves, there are numerous games on the system with literally zero deadzone, like Resogun, Killzone and COD:AW.

 

[dark_inferno]

Well isnt it that GTAV controls a bit sluggish on everything?

 

[Skyzard]

100ms is not the minimum input lag for a 30FPS game. NFS: Hot Pursuit was 30FPS and had input lag lower than 100ms...Digitalfoundry wrote that article before NFS: Hot Pursuit came out.

Hot Pursuit had an input lag of 83ms, which compared to 66ms of 60FPS games is only a difference of 1 frame (for a 60FPS game where a frame costs 16.67ms, and "half a frame" for a 30FPS game as they take 33.33ms to render one frame). That's pretty damn amazing.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-nfs-latency-blog-entry

Thanks.

So there is hope for 30fps

"The way the architecture works is to run the game simulation internally at 60FPS, and it's polling the controller once for every simulation step so you get as up-to-date inputs as possible," Fry explained.

Probably not with really demanding games though...

They mentioned on PC it became 50ms. And that was their fastest pad timing they've tested in a game. I wonder why mouse controls can be faster...

 

[ChainsawFilms]

Here, just shot a video showing the deadzone and how it's not notably larger than any other game, but the movement speed is stupidly slow until you move the stick farther:
http://youtu.be/6l7gK_JpYk8

Thank you. That's AWFUL. So you get latency, and then the smallest amount of movement possible. Wow.

The slow movement they can fix, but I imagine changing the latency isn't happening, it must be their pipeline.

FWIW I can enjoy the game in third person with auto aiming, but that's not how I intended to play the game. Imagine first person with the responsiveness of a decent 30fps first person shooter. That would have been something.

 

[Windom Earle]

PS3 felt the same to me, so I don't mind too much. Looking forward to see how they handle this in the PC version. (Lag/deadzone issues don't really play well with kb/m) That being said, I will most likely play the PC version with a controller...

Missing tree animation pisses me off more. And of course R* doesn't address shit.

 

[That Wont Fit In There]

No lag for me.

 

[Summer Haze]

Thanks. I'll see if I can get on the PS4 later to try myself.

Your video clearly demonstrates though that, regardless of deadzone or not, there's a huge amount of input latency. The analogue had returned to center before the screen moved!!

Just for piece of mind it may be worth maxing sensitivity and running the same tests, in case something really weird is going on, other than just simple latency.

All aiming/movement settings are set to max, for both first and third-person.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Zero lag for me. I play it on a few years old Bravia.

 

[Summer Haze]

Here, just shot a video showing the deadzone and how it's not notably larger than any other game, but the movement speed is stupidly slow until you move the stick farther. The end result is roughly the same, you need to move the stick farther than you should have to in order to get adequate response, but it's not the deadzone itself that is really the issue in this case:
http://youtu.be/6l7gK_JpYk8

So it looks like the issue is the dead-zone and movement acceleration, right? No wonder it feels so bad to play...

We need to show these vids to Rockstar.

--------------

Everyone who is saying things like "zero lag for me" should upload videos like the one in the OP, and the one I made. I'm really curious to see if it really isn't there for you, or you just don't notice it. I'm 90% certain it's the latter, but the amount of people saying they don't have any input lag or dead-zone issues is making me curious.

 

[Septimius]

Street Fighter 4 had 2/3 frames input lag on 360 and 3/4 on PS3. I think they're both at three, but various tests. Seen how no LCD has gotten lower than 22 ms on the Leo Bodnar test, 4 frames is exactly expected. Daigo doesn't complain. Think about that.

EDIT: forgot this game runs in 30 fps. That makes it worse. But it seems others are pointing out that the test is horribly inaccurate.

 

[-griffy-]

So it looks like the issue is the dead-zone and movement acceleration, right? No wonder it feels so bad to play...

We need to show these vids to Rockstar.

It's primarily the movement acceleration, if that was more normalized it would feel much snappier and more responsive. A lower deadzone might help some, of course, but it's not really larger than most "normal" games so as to be a problem (and a higher deadzone might be annoying when driving, as minute movements would change direction, though perhaps they could have unique deadzones for driving vs. on foot). As it is, it seems they literally have an acceleration curve that starts at true zero, so if you have your stick moved just a little bit, it's going almost no speed, and then farther more it starts going stupid slow, before suddenly hitting a steep part of the curve where it speeds up more. The curve probably looks like this, but maybe even more severe:

 

[Smether]

No lag for me, I do use the "game mode" on my TV, as it is a significant difference between the other modes.

 

[Ranger X]

Got to love when people try to help with you're issue and you stubbornly refuse, claiming there's nothing to be done and it's just a 'shit game' even though others have said they aren't experiencing your issue! As someone who used to do tech support I find this attitude really annoying

He's saying he tested the lag in the PS4 OS. Ain't that proof enough? If it was the TV, the menu would lag just like GTA5 and its not the case. Who's being stubborn now?

 

[nOoblet16]

Thanks.

So there is hope for 30fps



Probably not with really demanding games though...

They mentioned on PC it became 50ms. And that was their fastest pad timing they've tested in a game. I wonder why mouse controls can be faster...

I might be wrong but I think mouse controls have no or little to input delay as it's a 1:1 input.
And they are talking about 50ms when using a controller.

Also Hot Pursuit was a fairly high end game graphically for its time in my opinion.

 

[Septimius]

He's saying he tested the lag in the PS4 OS. Ain't that proof enough? If it was the TV, the menu would lag just like GTA5 and its not the case. Who's being stubborn now?

The test is horribly flawed.

 

[Chanser]

I only notice it when I press look behind camera.

 

[Ranger X]

The test is horribly flawed.

No. The TV would have lag because of 2 main reasons: applying effects on the image (this would happen on both the OS and the game) or the TV would resize the image (but its not happening here because, per example, my TV is native 1080p and so is GTA5 and the PS4 OS. Long story short, its like the best test you can have.

 

[Betta Lines]

He's saying he tested the lag in the PS4 OS. Ain't that proof enough? If it was the TV, the menu would lag just like GTA5 and its not the case. Who's being stubborn now?

Presumably the PS4 OS runs at 60fps, so it's not a fair comparison. What I'd like to see is the OP showing the lag of GTAV on PS3 using the same camera and TV, as his claim is that GTAV PS4 is less responsive than GTAV PS3.

 

[Portugeezer]

Here, just shot a video showing the deadzone and how it's not notably larger than any other game, but the movement speed is stupidly slow until you move the stick farther. The end result is roughly the same, you need to move the stick farther than you should have to in order to get adequate response, but it's not the deadzone itself that is really the issue in this case:
http://youtu.be/6l7gK_JpYk8

I disagree, that is a noticeable amount of tilt on the analogue stick in your video, in other games like COD you barely have to move the sticks for it to move. It's an issue with the game. I could do a similar video which shows no movement despite me tilting the analogue stick a bit, and it was like that on my old controller and my new controller and also my brothers controller.

 

[Ranger X]

Presumably the PS4 OS runs at 60fps, so it's not a fair comparison. What I'd like to see is the OP showing the lag of GTAV on PS3 using the same camera and TV, as his claim is that GTAV PS4 is less responsive than GTAV PS3.

That would be an excellent comparison. Still is evident the lag in the case here is on the game's side though.

 

[-griffy-]

I disagree, that is a noticeable amount of tilt on the analogue stick in your video, in other games like COD you barely have to move the sticks for it to move. It's an issue with the game. I could do a similar video which shows no movement despite me tilting the analogue stick a bit, and it was like that on my old controller and my new controller and also my brothers controller.

As I've said, COD is a game with literally no deadzone (on PS4 at least). That's an exception more than the rule, and GTAV's deadzone is fairly normal. At the angle I had the stick, it was moving, but almost imperceptibly slowly. And you can see the next degree of movement barely moves the stick further but the movement speed increases substantially. COD also has uncommonly low input lag, so it feels snappier and more responsive than almost any game.

You pair the absurd acceleration curve with the input lag in GTAV and you have notable problems with responsiveness and ability to reliably predict stick movement in relation to crosshair movement in order to aim, regardless of deadzone. Which is of course why it defaults to auto aim.

 

[Summer Haze]

Damn, I wish I still had Far Cry 4, I would have made a comparison video. I was switching between FC4 and GTA V for a couple of weeks, and every time I switched I noticed the difference in the controls immediately. FC4 just felt so much more precise.

Maybe someone else could merge my video with some footage of Far Cry 4 PS4 gameplay? I dunno...

 

[Portugeezer]

As I've said, COD is a game with literally no deadzone (on PS4 at least). That's an exception more than the rule, and GTAV's deadzone is fairly normal. At the angle I had the stick, it was moving, but almost imperceptibly slowly. And you can see the next degree of movement barely moves the stick further but the movement speed increases substantially. COD also has uncommonly low input lag, so it feels snappier and more responsive than almost any game.

You pair the absurd acceleration curve with the input lag in GTAV and you have notable problems with responsiveness, regardless of deadzone.

That may be true, but we should point out the shit deadzone and not just say it's not much worse than some other games, when many games are just fine. It was one of the first things I noticed (not just the aim acceleration), I had no problem with TLOU deadzones for example.

 

[nOoblet16]

That may be true, but we should point out the shit deadzone and not just say it's not much worse than some other games, when many games are just fine. It was one of the first things I noticed (not just the aim acceleration), I had no problem with TLOU deadzones for example.

You are again talking about a 60FPS game, so even if it did have a similar deadzone it will feel much more responsive because of the fact that it is inherently more responsive.This seems usual for a 30FPS game and the acceleration makes it feel somewhat worse...but the deadzone itself seems no different than most games to me.

You also have to note that some deadzone needs to be present in the controller it's part of its design because analogues become loser over time and you don't want it to do stuff just because it's 1 millimeter away from its original spot. What I saw in that video posted by griffy was not a substantial tilt, it was a very very minor tilt.

 

[-griffy-]

That may be true, but we should point out the shit deadzone and not just say it's not much worse than some other games, when many games are just fine. It was one of the first things I noticed (not just the aim acceleration), I had no problem with TLOU deadzones for example.

But that's because COD and Last of Us have better, more responsive acceleration curves (not to mention both being 60fps games on PS4)! You still have to move the stick farther in GTAV to get adequate response, because the acceleration curve is so shit. Compare it to COD, and if you have the stick moved halfway in both (far outside of the deadzone in GTAV) you'll be moving much faster in COD. The difference between slowest movement and "average" movement in COD isn't as steep either, it's a more gentle curve which means it's easier for the player to maneuver and predict when they need to let off the stick to rest the crosshair on the target. They use the whole breadth of movement of the stick to spread out acceleration, whereas with GTAV it feels like the entire first 1/3rd of movement is incredibly, frustratingly slow, before moving right into faster movement. It's hard to gauge when you're going to transition from super slow movement to faster movement in GTAV because the curve between the two is so steep, and then you pair that with input lag and it becomes incredibly difficult to aim without relying on auto aim.

 

[Summer Haze]

You are again talking about a 60FPS game, so even if it did have a similar deadzone it will feel much more responsive because of the fact that it is inherently more responsive.

This seems usual for a 30FPS game and the acceleration makes it feel somewhat worse...but the deadzone itself seems no different than most games to me.

I'm a console-only gamer, so as you can imagine, the vast majority of the games I play/have played are 30fps, and I rarely, if ever, notice input lag/dead-zone/acceleration issues as bad as in GTA V. It's certainly not usual.

 

[Reckless Onion]

people that are not noticing any delay, are their brains refreshing at 30hz or what? filthy peasants!

 

[nOoblet16]

I'm a console game, so as you can imagine, the vast majority of the games I play/have played are 30fps, and I rarely, if ever, notice input lag/dead-zone/acceleration issues as bad as it is in GTA V. It's certainly not usual.

GTA has two things that make it worse, the acceleration and the input delay due to the physics based character movement. The camera is only affected by the first of this, while the character movements get affected by both of it. Combined together this makes it all seem very sluggish, but I do not find it to be an issue with the deadzone...the tilt you see in that video by griffy is quite literally the minimum tilt you need for a movement in just about any game I know of.

 

[Beefy]

Are you all playing it using the "Game mode" of your TVs?

I play mine in PC mode and don't have a problem.

 

[Summer Haze]

GTA has two things that make it worse, the acceleration and the input delay due to the physics based character movement. The camera is only affected by the first of this, while the character movements get affected by both of it. Combined together this makes it all seem very sluggish, but I do not find it to be an issue with the deadzone...the tilt you see in that video by griffy is quite literally the minimum tilt you need for a movement in just about any game I know of.

Really? I don't recall ever needing to move the stick that much before it registers in any game I've ever played. Hmm.

 

[Beefy]

people that are not noticing any delay, are their brains refreshing at 30hz or what? filthy peasants!

What a sad post.

 

[Birgitte2004]

To all of the people saying they aren't experiencing it, hold your controller up the light of your TV, flick the right analogue and you'll see that your screen only starts moving when the stick is almost back in its original position. Honestly, I don't know how anyone can't notice it.

I just did this test and this isn't what I experience. The camera is moving before I let go of the stick.

 

[Thrakier]

Zero lag for me. I play it on a few years old Bravia.

Could you guys please stop these "zero lag" comments? They are just stupid, since it's technically impossible.

DF could measure it, but it would be no surprise lags around 133ms and more just like GTA IV.

It is also not the "dead zone" on the controllers. It's just lag. It's the sluggish controls introduced by 30FPS and long render pipelines. It's bad and it sucks for those who notice it. But because not enough people notice it/got used to it, devs will just go on optiziming for graphical fidelity and not for playability. A game that plays great on a technical base is just not priority anymore. It's great graphics and high resolution.

 

[Damian.]

I just did this test and this isn't what I experience. The camera is moving before I let go of the stick.

Sounds like you're not flicking it.

 

[-griffy-]

Really? I don't recall ever needing to move the stick that much before it registers in any game I've ever played. Hmm.

You have to remember you are noticing two things, the input delay and the slow acceleration. So, you move the stick and there is a delay before the game even gives you feedback that you have moved the stick, and then when it does give you feedback and start moving the camera, it will be absurdly slow before you move the stick farther, which again has a delay before being registered on screen, at which point you might be moving the camera faster than you wanted so you ease up on the stick, there's a delay as that registers, and now you are moving too slow again, etc etc etc. This is precisely why I gave up trying to play with free-aim in first person and just went back to assisted aim.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

I stopped playing an hour in due to the abhorrent delay. Makes it totally unplayable for me. Oh well.

:/

Xbox One by the way.

 

[Summer Haze]

I just did this test and this isn't what I experience. The camera is moving before I let go of the stick.

Maybe that was a slight exaggeration. Could you could test it again while watching the clip I made and see if your results are similar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He77KcLJN-o

 

[Rad-]

I get noticeable input lag in 3rd person but not in 1st person. 3rd person is unplayable because of this. Though I'm not sure if it's lag and just a weight design thing in 3rd person movement. But it's horrible.

 

[Summer Haze]

You have to remember you are noticing two things, the input delay and the slow acceleration. So, you move the stick and there is a delay before the game even gives you feedback that you have moved the stick, and then when it does give you feedback and start moving the camera, it will be absurdly slow before you move the stick farther, which again has a delay before being registered on screen, at which point you might be moving the camera faster than you wanted so you ease up on the stick, there's a delay as that registers, and now you are moving too slow again, etc etc etc. This is precisely why I gave up trying to play with free-aim in first person and just went back to assisted aim.

Oh, I know. I was just talking specifically about dead-zones in other games as the guy I was replying to said the dead-zone in your video is normal.

I get noticeable input lag in 3rd person but not in 1st person. 3rd person is unplayable because of this.

Really? That is strange.

Ugh, I hope Rockstar address this.

 

[Skyzard]

I get noticeable input lag in 3rd person but not in 1st person. 3rd person is unplayable because of this.

I heard that's something to do with the Euphoria engine and the way the game animates...?

 

[legacyzero]

I've not had this problem.

My biggest problem was the games' deadzone in FPS mode.

 

[Thrakier]

Please guys, stop the dead zone discussion. It's not a dead zone issue. It's lag.

 

[-griffy-]

Oh, I know. I was just talking specifically about dead-zones in other games as the guy I was replying to said the dead-zone in your video is normal.

Yeah, but the deadzone is fairly normal is what I'm saying. The reason it feels unusual in GTAV is because of the reasons in that last post.

 

[NinjaFridge]

"lol I don't like something that everyone else like therefore it's not good"

It is a masterpiece. Get over it.

"lol someone has a different opinion than me therefore they are wrong"

People have different opinions. Get over it.

 

[Datapack]

Your favorite game "masterpiece"
I lol'd

Muh feels.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

I heard that's something to do with the Euphoria engine and the way the game animates...?

I'm not a developer but can't aiming be decoupled from animation entirely? That needs to be done somehow because, as it is, it's horrible and makes doing anything in the game feel sluggish. Like playing Halo ten years ago on a big, shitty DLP. Same feeling of input lag.

 

[leazo]

Are you sure it isn't the TV causing this? Noticed nothing of the sort on a PC monitor.

 

[Summer Haze]

Are you sure it isn't the TV causing this? Noticed nothing of the sort on a PC monitor.

Really?