this is NOTHING like squirrel girl nonsense. cap actually used one of his greatest assets strategy, which weve seen him use time and again. having most of the heavy hitters in space, while new york is flooded with villains to the point that the govt relinquishes power to him, then trapping the heavies out in space? wheres the revisonist history?
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In new Captain America #1, what Steve Rogers says will change everything (SPOILERS).
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
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this is NOTHING like squirrel girl nonsense. cap actually used one of his greatest assets strategy, which weve seen him use time and again. having most of the heavy hitters in space, while new york is flooded with villains to the point that the govt relinquishes power to him, then trapping the heavies out in space? wheres the revisonist history?
Chezzymann
Member
Captain HYDRA
ArchedThunder
Banned
I feel like through some time fuckery they're going to get the revised history Cap back and he'll fight Hydra Cap.
i forgot how tiring "this is why i stopped reading comics/im glad i grew out of comics/ cape comics" remarks were
except this is clearly a story while one more day was the beginning of a directive
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
It's literally all predicated on 'convenient' shenanigans from a world-altering device.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy the premise, but basing it as 'Hydra Steve is so smart!' when the world is literally engineered by a sentient being to have him be the 'Best Hydra Agent ever!1!' feels, on some level, like an ass-pull.
Some of it is just 'Cap tactics', sure, but overall, definitely not feeling it, personally.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Have you read every comic book in publication the last few years?
Comics quality vary wildly depending on the author and artists involved.
Are comic threads always like, i usually hang around Comicgaf(the community)
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Be a little more specific. When you say you "grew out of comics" explain what type of comics. Cuz if you read manga, your also reading comics.
A guy left the hand to start his own cult, due to magic he got from the hand he had tenfingers on each hand, thus the name, Tenfingers. the Hand later came after him and his cult resulting in a 3-way fight between him, Daredevil and the Hand.
The creative team realized how dumb it all was and had him killed by a new villain name Vincent Van Gore that would kill people and pose them in to works of art.
And then everybody suddenly forgot about Tenfingers lol
Please. People said the same thing when folks were freaking out over the Watchmen stuff in DC Rebirth and guess what? The Button part 1 was rad as hell and I want more.
Ok how about "I'm glad I grew out of Marvel Comics" since apparently saying all of comics is a hurtful statement here.
Image and Boom are great though. Love East of West and Southern Bastards.
Guys, I'm gonna blow your minds here:
You can think a specific plot twist is garbage while still waiting for the entire story.
Image and Boom are great though. Love East of West and Southern Bastards.
"This thing unrelated to this event was good, even though people said it was bad, so therefore this other thing people say is bad isn't actually bad."
Guys, I'm gonna blow your minds here:
You can think a specific plot twist is garbage while still waiting for the entire story.
He's basically doing Cap stuff as a villain and using the skills he already had to control everyone like puppets over the course of a year. I can obviously understand not liking it, but nothing has been an "ass-pull".
radios shipping overview
Member
Ridiculous plot development intended to drive controversy and sales!
This shit is so transparent.
This shit is so transparent.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Nah the button stuff is still dumb
its not hydra cap is so smart, its cap is so smart. whether he was hydra or not, non of what happened is out of the realm of what cap is capable of. he could have done the same thing while he was regular. and he has. if you arent feeling it, thats fine, but none of what happened in 0 is based on convenient shenanigans any more than any other event in comics
pretty much. random comic threads are about 75 percent reaction.
No you're dumb
Vermillion
Banned
Selvig hinted as much in the actual book. Saying that maybe this time, Kobik did more than alter Cap's personal reality.
look at the responses and take a wild guess
Poodlestrike
Banned
Those spoilers aren't just comic dumbness. Comic dumbness is fun or silly or just head scratchingly stupid, like Tenfingers a few pages back. This is just... nauseating. And I'm not even a Marvel fan, so don't mistake this for fanboyism "not muh cap" whining. If Cap was always a Nazi, but his heroics still happened, then the only interpretation is really that both sides are the same and heroism is just a matter of which one of those effectively indistinct sides you're on. This is further backed up by the Allies literally rewriting reality to win the war but leaving the Holocaust in and keeping WW2 the most brutal and bloody war in human history on top of that. Both sides caused the holocaust! How fucked up is that! Everyone is equally shit, so punching a Nazi is just as bad as when a Nazi punches you. Suoerheroics are futile because at the end of the day everyone is just as bad as everyone else maaaaan.
What the fuck, Spencer? How priveleged do you have to be to be sending that kind of message?
What the fuck, Marvel? How fucking stupid do you have to be to make that guy your Captain America writer?
What the fuck, Spencer? How priveleged do you have to be to be sending that kind of message?
What the fuck, Marvel? How fucking stupid do you have to be to make that guy your Captain America writer?
Look at this guy, he doesn't even blindly eat up whatever shit Marvel feeds him in a vain attempt of waiting for a satisfying ending that will never happen. What a fake comic nerd.
Adam Sadler
Member
I feel like if most of the people would read up to date they'd really enjoy it. *Shrugs* it's dope af to me. I think the twist within a twist within a twist is a tad ridiculous but secret wars was amazing and even more ridiculous so I'm down to see how this plays out.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Well said
BossDarkseid
Member
I somehow had not thought of it like that (re the holocaust stuff). I know they always say they've been planning X for years, but this does not seem like a thought out, long planned and well plotted storyline. Hickman's Secret Wars it ain't.
I
I'm not sure why people keep theorizing you have to know nothing about comics to think this shit is extra dumb.
It's possible to think this is especially nonsense, not because comics are never nonsense, but because Cap was created by two Jewish men and used frequently, specifically as a symbol of anti-fascism. The choice is deliberate, dumb, and insulting. Edginess just for the sake of it isn't cute or super clever, particularly when it's covered in some of the most obvious and tired tropes in all of comics.
Reading comics should just make it even more obvious how many layers of lame this is, not be an excuse to handwave it as "just more of comics being comics."
Or what Poodlestrike said.
It's possible to think this is especially nonsense, not because comics are never nonsense, but because Cap was created by two Jewish men and used frequently, specifically as a symbol of anti-fascism. The choice is deliberate, dumb, and insulting. Edginess just for the sake of it isn't cute or super clever, particularly when it's covered in some of the most obvious and tired tropes in all of comics.
Reading comics should just make it even more obvious how many layers of lame this is, not be an excuse to handwave it as "just more of comics being comics."
Or what Poodlestrike said.
you need to learn to separate hydra and nazis. both facist organizations, different ideologies
kunonabi
Member
I don't get the question. The subjects of complaints are why I don't read them any more. The only comics ive read recently are the two renew your vows series and smallville. Every time I look into something else I get turned off by one thing or another.
Gentleman Jack
Member
deadscreensky
Member
Yeah, Hydra are just Nazi collaborators. That's totally different than actual Nazis.
It has to be- doesn't make sense for Steve to have originally been evil and the cosmic cube was used to make him the good guy...otherwise, what was the point of Kobik?
I like the idea behind this story, but all the Kobik shit is just dumb. It should have just been Red Skull (with Prof. X's powers) mentally fucking up Steve Rogers' memories and making him think he was a Hydra sleeper agent.
Poodlestrike
Banned
This is like separating Trump voters who voted for him because of racism and Trump voters who voted for him in spite of racism in the sense that no I fucking don't they're both equally awful.
Palette Swap
Member
I should look for usenet posts on AoA. I didn't use the internet at the time, but people probably complained about that.
This isn't really the point being made, at least not mine.
The point is that dumb twists are dumb but they don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, because they only stick until the next dumb twist, meanwhile what matters most is the execution of the story told between these.
Superior Spider-Man is a great example of this: it's a bad premise, brought about by a powerfully moronic twist, and yet the series is pretty good.
Edit: on this specific twist and how tasteless it is, Poodlestrike makes a really good point, though.
No it wasn't.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Depends on the definition, but this entire arc definitely has elements of it. Less on Cap personally, maybe, but definitely with stuff like the cube gaining sentience and looking at Red-Skull Papa.
But hey, they sell comics, so on that level, I get it. And that's cool, right up until it encounters stuff like this:
On some level, I'll give Marvel the benefit of the doubt in that they probably didn't think about stuff like this in any great detail.
But that doesn't change how potentially gross this all is.
In all honesty, I'm also of the mind that this is just another layer to Cap being messed with, but at the same time, how many times do we need to mimic inception before things go downhill?
That doesn't change the underlying point, though? Especially with the backstory of Cap, and the allegory of Hydra being in bed with the Nazis (right up until they apparently aren't, now)
CaptainofIndustry
Member
Doesn't that strengthen the moral? That even the most noble icons are corruptable? That even the people and institutions we trust most should be questioned? That evil can be found anywhere, at any time?
The point of this story - which #0 keeps hammering in - is that the world trusted Captain America blindly, and by the time they realize they'd handed the reins over to a fascist dictator, it was too late.
Pair this with HYDRA Cap's backstory - that a good, decent child with the potential for greatness is twisted into a supremacist simply due to a different set of circumstances - and you have an incredibly relevant story.
Like, that's what America is living through right now! We said things will work out, people will make the right choices, our institutions will protect us, and suddenly we wake up in a fascist nightmare.
How is Captain America not the right canvas for that story?
insulting? because theyve taken an established character in a direction for a story? this isnt some new status quo. and given the directions that cap has gone down over the years, considering the fact that hes the same man with a dream despite it being a little obscured, i think the character he was during time runs out to be more insulting to the ideologies of captain america, than hydracap is. hydracap at least retains some means of self. time runs out cap was more willing to kill a former ally than to try to assist in preventing any deaths he could
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
I wondered why this thread seemed to be so popular all of a sudden. Oh boy.
These spoilers are something else for sure but I'm not following Secret Empire nor Cap so who knows... I'm content reading Thanos, Nova and Daredevil, the rest of the Marvel line just doesn't interest me right now.
These spoilers are something else for sure but I'm not following Secret Empire nor Cap so who knows... I'm content reading Thanos, Nova and Daredevil, the rest of the Marvel line just doesn't interest me right now.
Bring back Jemas.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
People always say "but it turned out good!" for shit like this and it's completely missing the point. The point is that things like this, Superior Spider-Man, the Watchmen showing up in DC, etc are all just desperate attention grabs because Marvel and DC are convinced that nobody will buy comic books unless they provide some "shocking" twist every 6 months. They are a symptom of how fundamentally broken the comic book industry is. Although most of them don't turn out to be good stories because it's really hard to write a good story when your base is "what can we do that will shock people enough to spike comic book sales for a few months?"
Read everything Jeff Lemire does. Everything.
Exactly. Secret Empire 0 was great-chilling even when you see what happened to the heroes in space.
Cosmic cubes gaining sentience isn't a new thing and her connection with Red Skull comes from it being the cube he used in the past.
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