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[Grief.exe]

Again, that's your opinion and many people here will disagree with you. I actually found Bioshock 2 to be the weakest in the series (Minerva's Den aside) and I found the setting of B:I to be so refreshing in its departure from rapture (at least in the main game). Narratively, it was the strongest in the series easily for me.

So we see two completely different sides of the game here.

I am looking for gameplay, which I found to be mediocre, and you prefer more of a narrative experience which Bioshock Infinite does provide in both its setting and story.

Which is also why I would find Bioshock 2 to be the best in the series and you would find it to be the worst. The second entry focused on gameplay and put the story on the backburner, while Infinite completely downgraded the gameplay in almost every aspect.

I also think Bioshock 2 was the best. The narrative in every Bioshock game is garbage IMO, so at least B2 having good gameplay design actually redeemed the series name.

I would agree with this to be honest.

 

[nynt9]

Again, that's your opinion and many people here will disagree with you. I actually found Bioshock 2 to be the weakest in the series (Minerva's Den aside) and I found the setting of B:I to be so refreshing in its departure from rapture (at least in the main game). Narratively, it was the strongest in the series easily for me.

I also think Bioshock 2 was the best. The narrative in every Bioshock game is garbage IMO, so at least B2 having good gameplay design actually redeemed the series name.

 

[Insane Metal]

LMAO

 

[Skux]

So this is the first time a game with no review copies actually turned out good?

 

[Tainted]

So we see two completely different sides of the game here.

I am looking for gameplay, which I found to be mediocre, and you prefer more of a narrative experience which Bioshock Infinite does provide in both its setting and story.

I will agree with you on that. I didn't necessarily find the gameplay in B:I to be bad myself ...but I guess if you are comparing direct gameplay elements between the 2 games, they are different for sure.

My 2 favorite games this year have been Firewatch and UC4, so it's pretty obvious what sort of games I go for. (disclaimer: Not saying UC4 has bad gameplay, but it isn't it's strongest suit)

 

[F0rneus]

7/10 from Gamecentral over on the Metro site.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/16/game-review-doom-is-a-hellishly-violent-shooter-5884090/

"Mediocre visuals,"

Fucking wut. A game that looks this good on PS4 at 60 FPS is just unreal. And the art design is just...hnnnnnnnng.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I will agree with you on that. I didn't necessarily find the gameplay in B:I to be bad myself ...but I guess if you are comparing direct gameplay elements between the 2 games, they are different for sure.

My 2 favorite games this year have been Firewatch and UC4, so it's pretty obvious what sort of games I go for. (disclaimer: Not saying UC4 has bad gameplay, but it isn't it's strongest suit)

I thought the gameplay in Bioshock Infinite was some most mundane and repetitive I have ever experienced. For the first time I was truly forcing myself to play a game just to see how the story would play out. The combat was not enjoyable at all.

 

[Grief.exe]

I thought the gameplay in Bioshock Infinite was some most mundane and repetitive I have ever experienced. For the first time I was truly forcing myself to play a game just to see how the story would play out. The combat was not enjoyable at all.

I will agree with you on that. I didn't necessarily find the gameplay in B:I to be bad myself ...but I guess if you are comparing direct gameplay elements between the 2 games, they are different for sure.

My 2 favorite games this year have been Firewatch and UC4, so it's pretty obvious what sort of games I go for. (disclaimer: Not saying UC4 has bad gameplay, but it isn't it's strongest suit)

I guess my personal problems with video game narratives, as a result of the medium, they tend to focus solely on the main character and tend to lack depth and multifaceted approaches to the story.

I haven't found too many narratives in this medium which are compelling, so I tend to focus on what this medium provides that others literally cannot: gameplay.

The good news is, Doom seems to have this in spades. The bad news is, now I'm thinking about what a let down Bioshock Infinite was.

 

[Hip Hop]

I'm truly surprised, the DOOM beta was one of the worst multiplayer games I've touched in a while and really thought that the SP had no chance after that.

Looks like it's totally a 180.

 

[VanCityGamer]

Wow. I literally could not disagree with John's quote more. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Witcher 3 all prove the importance of story. Some of the best games of all time are story driven.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

One day we're stop thinking gameplay as "the parts where you shoot/fight" and story as "the parts where characters talk" as two separate things

 

[Grief.exe]

Wow. I literally could not disagree with John's quote more. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Witcher 3 all prove the importance of story. Some of the best games of all time are story driven.

I have it in the back of my mind that the quote is made up, but we better double check on that.

You are also quoting games from the mid-2010's keep in mind he was mainly a developer in the early 90's.

 

[Sullichin]

I have it in the back of my mind that the quote is made up, but we better double check on that.

izquotes.com man
sounds legit

 

[~Kinggi~]

Wow. I literally could not disagree with John's quote more. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Witcher 3 all prove the importance of story. Some of the best games of all time are story driven.

Different games, that focus on different things, can all be equally good.


mind blow

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I thought the gameplay in Bioshock Infinite was some most mundane and repetitive I have ever experienced. For the first time I was truly forcing myself to play a game just to see how the story would play out. The combat was not enjoyable at all.

I feel this way about the entire franchise.

 

[bounchfx]

Wow. I literally could not disagree with John's quote more. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Witcher 3 all prove the importance of story. Some of the best games of all time are story driven.

funny, because I've loved games my entire life but story is literally the last thing I look for or care about, and outside of the three you mentioned + a few others, most games do a horrible job at telling a story or even building a good character. this is obviously a bigger topic than this thread but I just wanted to point out that it really is all about context and what the goal of the game is. Many games can be amazing and not have an iota of story within. For some games, it's the meat, for others, it's the frosting.

 

[Tagyhag]

Wow. I literally could not disagree with John's quote more. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Witcher 3 all prove the importance of story. Some of the best games of all time are story driven.

I think Carmack is talking more about the games that he worked in.

Some games are better with extremely little to no story, because they would just drag the game down. Because those particular games put gameplay above everything else.

The 3 games that you mentioned do not. So them having great stories makes sense.

 

[ManeKast]

Wow. I literally could not disagree with John's quote more. The Last of Us, Uncharted, The Witcher 3 all prove the importance of story. Some of the best games of all time are story driven.

Or, take away the story and your left with some average/above average games. I don't care for story in games but I agree it's a nice bonus when it's there - but for me never has story made an average game a great one. Which I think is possibly the case with the above examples..... (hides).

Gameplay > content for me but I'm old so who knows....

 

[Vire]

Is there even a story in this? Do they make attempts at a story?

 

[Psychoward]

Again, that's your opinion and many people here will disagree with you. I actually found Bioshock 2 to be the weakest in the series (Minerva's Den aside) and I found the setting of B:I to be so refreshing in its departure from rapture (at least in the main game). Narratively, it was the strongest in the series easily for me.

That reminds me, I haven't played 2 in years but interested in playing Minerva's Den, I don't need to replay 2 to get a grip on the story and stuff right?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

And to me its easily better than Wolf. A game I liked a great deal. Its an awesome time to be a gamer lol

Karak don't you lie to me!!! Wolfie is one of my top from last gen

 

[fastmower]

All I can say about this game is encapsuled in this little video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm2-1XNj3gM

Wow! I'm glad I bought this game.

 

[flintstryker]

A man after my own heart

 

[Risette]

Is there even a story in this? Do they make attempts at a story?

yes, the story is you kill demons and kill them very good

thats all u need

 

[~Kinggi~]

All I can say about this game is encapsuled in this little video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm2-1XNj3gM

thats quality shit right there. quality shit

 

[Grief.exe]

Is there even a story in this? Do they make attempts at a story?

They seemed to have really fleshed out the lore, but the main character spits on the narrative from the beginning.

That reminds me, I haven't played 2 in years but interested in playing Minerva's Den, I don't need to replay 2 to get a grip on the story and stuff right?

I think it was designed to be self-contained.

 

[Karak]

Karak don't you lie to me!!! Wolfie is one of my top from last gen

I loved it too but...seriously dooms gameplay is ace and I daresay the thing that matters to me which is fun above all else. Doom is just straight up a blast to play. I tried to explain it in the review but that forward movement and return on excellent gameplay is rarely seen. Its one of those games that when you do well, the sense of satisfaction is very personal and the fact that it was a blast during that time makes this sort of awesome combination.

 

[Brandon F]

Honestly never doubted them after The New Order.

]

This is currently one of GAF's most popular inaccuracies. The OT is littered with people seemingly completely unaware who actually developed the last Wolfenstein game.

 

[Sullichin]

Is there even a story in this? Do they make attempts at a story?

It's very much relegated to the background with typical audio logs and journal entry type stuff.
It's got a bestiary thing going on. I remember reading the readme file from the Doom shareware version and reading about the different monsters.. so while this type of thing has been done a million times in games, I'm oddly happy for its inclusion.

The story through these "codex" files have a tone that suggests that the Demons think of the Doom guy as a sort of legend. Like they're scared of him. It's actually kind of cool.

In game, your character says nothing and is led by voice-comm NPCs as typical in so many FPS games. But it's not intrusive, and the player character often interrupts periods of story exhibition to just destroy some shit and get things moving. It has a sense of humor about it that's not overdone.

 

[bounchfx]

This is currently one of GAF's most popular inaccuracies. The OT is littered with people seemingly completely unaware who actually developed the last Wolfenstein game.

This is actually confusing me as well. Are people assuming id made Wolfenstein TLO? Is that why it's coming up so much?

 

[antitrop]

Karak don't you lie to me!!! Wolfie is one of my top from last gen

You'll like it, Bruce. Trust me, when have I let you down?

 

[JurassicUtility]

I have it in the back of my mind that the quote is made up, but we better double check on that.

You are also quoting games from the mid-2010's keep in mind he was mainly a developer in the early 90's.

It was a quote attributed to him in "Masters of Doom". I believe the context was an argument Carmack was having with Tom Hall regarding the importance of story and lore during Doom's development.

 

[CyberPunked]

Again, that's your opinion and many people here will disagree with you. I actually found Bioshock 2 to be the weakest in the series (Minerva's Den aside) and I found the setting of B:I to be so refreshing in its departure from rapture (at least in the main game). Narratively, it was the strongest in the series easily for me.

Pity B:I was so ridiculously 'streamlined' (or consoleised). Whenever I think back to it, all I remember is the terrible combat.

 

[Karak]

It was a quote attributed to him in "Masters of Doom". I believe the context was an argument Carmack was having with Tom Hall regarding the importance of story and lore during Doom's development.

Correct

 

[antitrop]

This is actually confusing me as well. Are people assuming id made Wolfenstein TLO? Is that why it's coming up so much?

That misconception has always been there and probably always will. I think most people know about MachineGames, but there will always be a few that think iD did both games.

As a huge fan of Starbeeze (well, Riddick and The Darkness, anyway), I sure as hell knew who was developing Wolfenstein. It was the primary reason I was so excited for that game.

 

[Z3M0G]

This is goddamn amazing

 

[Valkyr1983]

I guess my personal problems with video game narratives, as a result of the medium, they tend to focus solely on the main character and tend to lack depth and multifaceted approaches to the story.

I haven't found too many narratives in this medium which are compelling, so I tend to focus on what this medium provides that others literally cannot: gameplay.

The good news is, Doom seems to have this in spades. The bad news is, now I'm thinking about what a let down Bioshock Infinite was.

Yuck, that quote from carmack is trash

Glad that dude left game development, he's a relic of a time gone past

Glad we aren't settling for games being on the same level as porn

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I've been seeing the Poly Doom gif for a couple of days, but holy shit. That's nothing compared to the video in the OP. I thought I sucked at FPSs with a controller. But, shit...

 

[flintstryker]

Yuck, that quote from carmack is trash

Glad that dude left game development, he's a relic of a time gone past

Glad we aren't settling for games being on the same level as porn

The story in the average videogame is hardly much better than the stories in porn though I am sadden by Carmack's departure myself

 

[Grief.exe]

Yuck, that quote from carmack is trash

Glad that dude left game development, he's a relic of a time gone past

Glad we aren't settling for games being on the same level as porn

The irony is what makes this game come off as so fresh in the modern era as it seems to have eschewed forced narrative for a focus on gameplay.

I've been seeing the Poly Doom gif for a couple of days, but holy shit. That's nothing compared to the video in the OP. I thought I sucked at FPSs with a controller. But, shit...

When that Geto Boys beat drops during the Nvidia footage.

 

[timmyp53]

This thread will be amazing when polygon meltdowns arrive.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

The story in the average videogame is hardly much better than the stories in porn though I am sadden by Carmack's departure myself

Yeah. Most great games actually get by on having great characters, not stories. Which is a great achievement in itself, and helps to cover for a lackluster story.

When that Geto Boys beat drops during the Nvidia footage.

Perfection.

This thread will be amazing when polygon meltdowns arrive.

Is the person playing it in that video reviewing it? I wonder if there are any internal talks there about it of so. It's an interesting situation, that's for sure.

 

[afternoon delight]

Review in progress score is complete nonsense.

Feels like the equivalent of people posting threads while watching a movie, totally unwarranted and a new low in the argument for professionalism.

 

[pa22word]

Yuck, that quote from carmack is trash

Glad that dude left game development, he's a relic of a time gone past

Glad we aren't settling for games being on the same level as porn

Says the guy with eye candy for an avatar *eyeroll*

 

[VanCityGamer]

Different games, that focus on different things, can all be equally good.


mind blow

Did you even read his quote? He did not say, "some games focus more on story, while others focus more on gameplay". He likened story in games as being equal to story in porn...which is to say it's never/not at all important. Thanks for your off-base and sarcastic comment, though.
Mind blow.

 

[manfestival]

The games graphics don't look that good but it seems like the art direction has helped it from looking bad. Slightly disappointing but at the story mode is more doom than cod. The open beta was a meh experience. I will wait and see the final word on this product

 

[pa22word]

He likened story in games as being equal to story in porn...which is to say it's never/not at all important.

And?

I really neither see what your point is nor why you are getting so bent out of shape about it. Different people have different ideas as to what and how games should be made, and even what games are. Are you really surprised a tech guy who writes the engine doesn't place as much emphasis on a strong narrative as the art guy? Because you obviously don't get it let me spell it out for you: one person does not make a game. Multiple people come together and put their talent to make something, and Doom was no different. The point of the quote was to contrast the different mindsets between two people making the same game, and how those differences sort themselves out (or not, in the case of Doom) via compromise during development between the various people making the game in order to form the end product that you actually play.

 

[Skab]

The games graphics don't look that good but it seems like the art direction has helped it from looking bad. Slightly disappointing but at the story mode is more doom than cod. The open beta was a meh experience. I will wait and see the final word on this product

In what world does this not look good?

 

[antitrop]

In what world does this not look good?

Everything has to be Uncharted 4 or it doesn't look good.

And then you'll still get someone that thinks Uncharted 4 doesn't look good. Such is graphics discussions.

 

[BiggNife]

The games graphics don't look that good but it seems like the art direction has helped it from looking bad. Slightly disappointing but at the story mode is more doom than cod. The open beta was a meh experience. I will wait and see the final word on this product

Watch some gameplay of the campaign at 1080p60 and tell me that it doesn't look good.

There's way more going on in the campaign than the multiplayer, and all of the monsters are insanely detailed with fantastic animations