So I wonder what Jschreier's excuse is going to be now that we have a s solid confirmation that it wasn't because of last min optimization but because the PS4 is actually just that much stronger than the 'ol Xbone? Will he go with the good old tried and true Totilo route and say "well it's already been reported elsewhere so we don't have to talk about it" excuse ala the Wainright debacle, or will he play out his "we get enough hits anyways so why should we care?" card like he did in the other topic? Going to be an interesting few weeks for the media to continue to defend their apathy regarding this clear power gulf between the two systems.
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Resolution gate infintyward responds eurogamer
- Thread starter madmackem
- Start date
Because it tricks people into thinking that the upscaling actually means something. After listening to a few podcasts today it is absolutely astounding how many people fall for the "720p native upscaled to 1080p" line. They honestly believe that there will be little to no difference because they are upscaling to 1080p. We are going to hear that line a whole hell of a lot this generation. MS is going to beat it into people's minds, and they are going to fall for it. These are the same people that are writing off people pointing out the difference in resolution as "pixel counters", as if we are some kind of elitists for wanting 1080p in our games. The things these people are willing to believe is absolutely insane. They should be wanting more out of the system, not making excuses for what they are getting.
I do think the PC gets placed on a different level than consoles due to variability and cost. Everyone here (or most everyone) has a PC. Whether or not each PC can play games at high framerates with high-end visuals varies from person to person.
The cost of entry is a bit of a turn-off for some as it's very easy for the price to blow up as you build (at least for me). If you live in the US and find the right deals, you can put together a solid PC for a reasonable cost but those of us living elsewhere (such as Europe) are getting fucked in terms of pricing (think 35-40% higher). The $600 gaming PC doesn't exist here.
Who can say for sure. I like to keep my PC relatively up to date but that doesn't apply to everyone. Not all gamers are really interested in dealing with a PC even if the barrier to entry has never been lower.
An MS dev told him that it will get more powerful over time so we'll have to report that as well.
Haha, you totally answered your own question.
My 360 has been up scaling to 1080p for years. Do people honestly think that means it's the same as 1080p native? Or even anywhere remotely approaching 1080p?
I do think the PC gets placed on a different level than consoles due to variability and cost. Everyone here (or most everyone) has a PC. Whether or not each PC can play games at high framerates with high-end visuals varies from person to person.
The cost of entry is a bit of a turn-off for some as it's very easy for the price to blow up as you build (at least for me). If you live in the US and find the right deals, you can put together a solid PC for a reasonable cost but those of us living elsewhere (such as Europe) are getting fucked in terms of pricing (think 35-40% higher). The $600 gaming PC doesn't exist here.
Who can say for sure. I like to keep my PC relatively up to date but that doesn't apply to everyone. Not all gamers are really interested in dealing with a PC even if the barrier to entry has never been lower.
I got a $1200 gaming PC in 2007 and used it a lot for a few years. Once I got a PS3 in 2009 and then a 360 in 2010 I started gaming on it less and less, and now it's so old I would need to replace everything (motherboard, processor, hard drive and GPU) but the case to upgrade it enough to play games better than my PS4 will. I'm not interested in doing that.
The people saying it know the difference. They're hoping the people who don't understand the difference are tripped up by it, I'd imagine.
If only Nintendo had taken this path with the Wii. "The Wii outputs 480p native upscaled to 720p/1080p." The obvious graphical flaws would have disappeared from peoples' vision.
IHaveCandy
Banned
So it's not a lack of power, time, or effort. What is it then, IW?
But it didn't, did it? I seem to remember my Wii settings maxing out at 480p. I don't think they even included a scaler for 720p/1080i/1080p on Wii.
The difference there is that Xbox 360 and Xbox One both do the upscaling. The Wii was incapable of upscaling by itself.
Lack of resources available on the XBO's part.
But most TVs do the upscaling. If people are so easily confused, they don't care to figure out where the upscaling is being done.
Which is redundant to state since you could output it natively and your TV would do the upscaling. We live in a world of fixed-pixel displays. CRT is dead. There's nothing magical about scaling.
Cornbread78
Member
This, no fanboy BS, no PR BS, just straight forward truth without the MS money spin, freshing and surprising considering their great relationship with MS.
That would be lying, though. What the PR people are saying about XB1 is true but is rather disingenuous whereas Nintendo suggesting that the Wii was upscaling anything would have been a direct lie.
All HDTVs have to handle some sort of scaling, of course, but some of the lower quality models do a poor job. The Wii had generally bad output anyways. The Gamecube was much cleaner in that regard.
You could word it differently in order to not "lie".
David Ricardo
Member
What's wrong with all this 720 upscaled to 1080p is that it takes as a given that your tv Screen is 1080p.
But what happens if my tv screen is 720p? Will the Xbox One upscale to 1080p and then downscale again to 720p?
And what if my screen is 4k. Will the game be upscaled to 1080p and then reupscaled to 4k?
To me, the only relevant information is the games internal resolution. Of course the game will be scaled to your tvs screen resolution, but it doesn't have to be 1080p. It could be any res supported by the xbox one.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Interesting that the word " Upscaled" was rarely ever used in these type of comparisons until recent months.
I wouldn't have as much problem with it if they weren't using it to spin/perpetuate that the xbone has this magical unicorn of an upscaler. Now you see fanboys trying to claim that there is no difference between 720p Upscaled and 1080p native and people are actually believing this...sigh.
I wouldn't have as much problem with it if they weren't using it to spin/perpetuate that the xbone has this magical unicorn of an upscaler. Now you see fanboys trying to claim that there is no difference between 720p Upscaled and 1080p native and people are actually believing this...sigh.
EchoedTruth
Banned
Not sure why the Xbox fanboys don't get this point.
I keep seeing people saying "But but but framerate > resolution"...
NullPointer
Member
This thread title reads like a google search.
Luckily PS4 has a higher framerate too.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Whoever takes over running the Xbox division should bring in some new people alongside them.
Marc
Member
Pretty balanced article for once (lately) by Eurogamer, Rubin seems like a nice guy who is having to play PR from the higher up's after the 'revelation'. He seems to confirm pretty much everything the insiders like CBOAT have been saying about memory bottlenecks. I also appreciate his position in the sense he wants it to sell well on both consoles as I imagine he is worried about Battlefield on Xbox One. Still, you can read between the lines. A hard nosed journalist would have pushed those points a bit harder than this causal chat but it is what it is at this point.
It will be very hard for Eurogamer to spin such a huge difference in resolution when they have been highlighting 2-5 framerate differences for years now. Although I am sure Leadbetter will give it his best shot.
It will be very hard for Eurogamer to spin such a huge difference in resolution when they have been highlighting 2-5 framerate differences for years now. Although I am sure Leadbetter will give it his best shot.
I think people are pointing out that internal resolution does not always tell the whole story. Yes, ultimately it will be scaled once (by the Xbone/PS4 scaler) to whatever setting you have your system set to output at based on the TV you connected. So it could be 720p/1080i/1080p/4K I guess.
But at least one game, the Order, renders internally at less than 1080p, but instead of allowing stretching by the system upscaler, it fills the "gap" with black bars, so the upscaler has nothing to do to output 1080p.
But I think the assumption that the target TV is 1080p is based on the fact that the vast majority of HDTVs in the wild are 1080p. Sony and MS can probably tell from what is connected to the PS3/360 what the majority is working with. Yes we can discuss the fine details of what the 10 people out there with 4k TVs will do, but for this year, at this launch, 1080p is the undisputed king. As the generation progresses, if 4k is more widely adopted, those conversations will come too.
Not to mention we can start talking about oversampling too but we don't seem to be there yet for this generation.
They wouldn't be talking about their product then. There's a fine difference there. Besides, back on 2006, Nintendo was towing the line that HD wasn't necessary.
Two things: you're not getting both on any console. That's what PCs are for. And secondly, "Xbot" will get you rightfully banned here. This isn't gamefaqs. Get that out of here.
Well we don't need to worry about 4K as neither of these consoles have a chance of coming close to a playable game at that res. Not to mention the older hdmi spec can't go above 24hz anyway.
4k Media support would be nice though.
Using the word "capable" as in "capable of being played at 720p" would be talking about their product. I am not a marketer, so I won't come up with a good way of marketing the Wii. But, I am confident there are ways to confuse the customer like MS is attempting to do.
But, you are right that confusion was not Nintendo's goal. And, for the first couple year, Nintendo was absolutely right that people did not care about resolution. This is based on Wii sales and the number of people not using component on the 360. Within the year, we will see if resolution differences still do not matter.
EchoedTruth
Banned
Since CoD is 1080p and 60fps... you are getting both on PS4. And I edited my post to make you feel better.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Not sure why the Xbox fanboys don't get this point.
I keep seeing people saying "But but but framerate > resolution"...
I liked it better when you were more transparent.
And I like that picture because it sums it up nicely. I will be getting both consoles. Both have things to offer.
Suggesting it as capable would still be incorrect. There's no way to spin it.
Ok sure, maybe some indie games. I was thinking mainstream though. You didn't see many less complex games hitting 1080p on last gen either. Although surely there were some arcade games that did.
Because some people are stupid and there is no point in admitting straight out that one if your major platform buyers will get a gimped version(can I say that? Feels like a really bad word)
Thightrope walking.
A yes it is.
People don't understand that. I usually go with the analogy -"its like stuffing your crotch/bra".
Most people didn't even play Crysis 3 at 60fps, and Shadow Fall is of that ilk (more open ended and large scale). But moving on, a lot of people won't go PC because of convenience, cost and lack of a resale or trade-in market. They just want the most affordable, most powerful best bang for buck console you can get. Otherwise they'd all be PC gamers.
Just want to point out that desktop gamers worth their salt will get out 15-30% more than those charts show. Cooling people its very important.
Pretty balanced article for once (lately) by Eurogamer, Rubin seems like a nice guy who is having to play PR from the higher up's after the 'revelation'. He seems to confirm pretty much everything the insiders like CBOAT have been saying about memory bottlenecks. I also appreciate his position in the sense he wants it to sell well on both consoles as I imagine he is worried about Battlefield on Xbox One. Still, you can read between the lines. A hard nosed journalist would have pushed those points a bit harder than this causal chat but it is what it is at this point.
It will be very hard for Eurogamer to spin such a huge difference in resolution when they have been highlighting 2-5 framerate differences for years now. Although I am sure Leadbetter will give it his best shot.
Yupp, so don't give that crap clicks or don't whitelist them.
It absolutely would be correct. My son just played NSMBW on a tv displaying it at 720p
Entrecôte;88590785 said:
My feeling is we will see "slim" versions of the console incorporate the new HDMI spec when it is finalized. And some PSN/Live games will support 4K as a showcase if nothing else. Something like Flower or Resogun where it is particle heavy.
But I agree, we will likely see media first, perhaps the console UI, and then a few showcase games, but nothing widespread.
Backfoggen
Banned
Still so weird that it's such a huge jump. Not even like 800p vs 1080p straight up current-gen resolution.
semiconscious
Gold Member
he went the 'resource allocation' route, which i think is the proper route for a developer to go. & he left it totally up to the reader (& ms) to figure out whether or not the actual resources required for these allocations are there or not, &, if they are, how easily accessible or not they will be. because that part just isn't his problem - he can only work with what he's provided...
iow, he's telling it like it is, letting what his team's been able to do at this point speak for itself. &, while he's personally opting to give ms, based on their claims, the benefit of the doubt for the time being, he's in no way saying that they will absolutely, positively be successful in their efforts. & that's just him being honest, & fine by me...
El Oh El bro
I don't think they would do that. Would mean a large proportion of owners wouldn't be able to enjoy the full res game. Consoles just about never improve specs, even the playstation stuck with the same slow BDROM.
EchoedTruth
Banned
SwiftDeath
Member
So not infinity ward's fault #confirmed?
And did they hint at the Voicechat API's causing problems with that OS comment?
Or at the very least that the PS4 OS is ahead of the XB1 OS at present?
Or do we all think by OS he meant SDK?
I think there's some takeaways from this if I can figure out exactly what he meant
Likely
- XB1 OS and/or SDK is behind PS4 and causing problems
- XB1 memory is causing problems as a single extra mb of needed memory (ESram I assume) become a real problem
- MS engineers were at Infinity Ward the entire time pretty much trying to get it up to higher resolution and failed which may be the most telling
And did they hint at the Voicechat API's causing problems with that OS comment?
Or at the very least that the PS4 OS is ahead of the XB1 OS at present?
Or do we all think by OS he meant SDK?
I think there's some takeaways from this if I can figure out exactly what he meant
Likely
- XB1 OS and/or SDK is behind PS4 and causing problems
- XB1 memory is causing problems as a single extra mb of needed memory (ESram I assume) become a real problem
- MS engineers were at Infinity Ward the entire time pretty much trying to get it up to higher resolution and failed which may be the most telling
Are you using an older DLP then? That's about the only way that could actually be true.
Seriously, I know what you're trying to argue, but it's incorrect. You cannot make a blanket statement about something that your product doesn't actually produce. The fact is, not all displays actually WOULD upscale, if you want to be accurate so their statement would not have worked.