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SUPERHYPERCUBE cancels Oculus support
- Thread starter FelipeMGM
- Start date
Wait, how is it a ridiculous blanket statement? If you support Trump, you don't give a shit about minorities. This is not a blanket statement, it's a fact.
Calling racists what they are (racists) is hate speech now? LMAO, get the fuck over yourself.
family_guy
Member
As much as I dislike Trump, I actually don't think supporting him makes you a racist. Some people are just voting for a party without even caring about the candidate's views. A friend of mine said he's voting third party because as much as he hates Trump, he can't bring himself to vote for a Democrat. All that being said, whether you are racist or not, if you support Trump that at least makes me believe you don't give a shit about the country as a whole and your vote is completely self-serving. So even if you don't have the term racist branded on you, you're still going to be looked down on by non-Trump supporters.
I'm not looking for moderation of technical accuracy, but I would appreciate more moderation of personal insults and ad hominem attacks, even when they are aimed against people I don't agree with.
May the better tech win.
I support Palmer in letting him express his beliefs however he wants. That is part of free speech.
If people want to cancel support of Palmer for his actions...I support them too. Free speech is great.
People who penalize, think ill of others or want to restrict others for not agreeing with their own beliefs are the rectal cancer of the world. Think long and hard about where you fall in that equation.
I support Palmer in letting him express his beliefs however he wants. That is part of free speech.
If people want to cancel support of Palmer for his actions...I support them too. Free speech is great.
People who penalize, think ill of others or want to restrict others for not agreeing with their own beliefs are the rectal cancer of the world. Think long and hard about where you fall in that equation.
please be sarcastic please be sarcastic
Like for real, so what? Company with a business decision to take pride in takes pride in business decision. I'm failing to see the downside here.
patently obvious they're trying to get exposure and sales from this, but not a penny is undeserved
NoFaceNico
Member
These threads really need to start getting moved to off topic.
As for voting for a candidate, no, it isn't black and white. I would hope no one in their right mind ever swears any sort blood oath allegiance to their candidate and every view he/she holds or will ever hold. There should always be room for meaningful dissent and policy debate both before and after a candidate is elected. I don't think I've ever voted for a candidate I agreed with on 100% of their platform but I voted for them because I felt that I could deal with their shortcomings when considering the advantages in electing them.
He's not just expressing his beliefs. He is actively putting his own profits from Oculus into an organization run by bigots and racists to help them spread their bigoted and racist messages against african americans, women, jews, and anyone else they feel isn't worthy of being a human being. This isn't a pro-Trump organization. It is an outright hate organization.
By buying Oculus, you are giving money to a person who will then use that money to fund this organization.
But by voting for them, you are implicitly supporting all of their policies and beliefs, no matter how many or few of them you disagree with.
I don't support all of Hillary Clinton's foreign policy, and that's something I have to accept when I vote for her. By voting for her, I am supporting policy which I am not a huge fan of. But a lot of her other policies I am in support of, so personally, it's something I can live with.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
What? No... voting is not black and white. Voting for someone does not mean you are for all the views, beliefs, and policies of that candidate. Sorry, this is not how any of this works.
jim-jam bongs
Member
If you don't care that a candidate is blatantly bigoted, then you're a bigot. This one is black and white, mate.
CorporateClown
Member
It might not be 100% accurate to say all Trump supporters are racist, but I think it is fair to say their negligence toward his rhetoric is at least condoning racism, sexism, etc. and I would go so far as to say you're outright REWARDING those with hate-fueled beliefs. And that's still terrible in my book so yeah, fuck trump supporters.
EatinOlives
Member
There already is a thread for off-topic.
And what you said can easily apply to plenty of other politicians, but you're talking about Donald Trump. There isn't any single policy in his "platform" worth talking about, because it's either filled to the brim with impossible promises or outright hateful bullshit that wouldn't pass any kind of financial, legal, and/or moral muster. It isn't possible to talk about Trump without talking about his sexist, racist, bigoted beliefs. And those are the main beliefs he's running on. He's not running on a reasonable platform and he just HAPPENED to have some colorful thoughts about some group of minorities. Even that is plenty of grounds on which anyone reasonable would say "fuck that guy", but there's no real alternative viewpoint that he has that a reasonable person can cling to and say "this is why I'm supporting him". There isn't a way to support him without supporting the hateful shit he says, because the hateful shit he says is what he chooses to put front and center, is the only thing he chooses to talk about, and is the only thing he defends regularly.
At some point you have to have a sanity check and notice that one of the two candidates is so off the deep end that they can't be reasoned with, and therefore can't be afforded any benefit of the doubt. You don't have to defend an abhorrent person like Trump just because you're more interested in appearing "neutral" and "impartial" above all else (which is another big problem with social issues in the US, but that's another topic entirely). Turning a blind eye on bigotry, racism, and xenophobia and pretending there's a gray area in there somewhere if we just close our eyes and BELIEVE hard enough is not being neutral.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The original subject of conversation--Palmer Luckey investing in such a group--is plainly appropriate to both forums, which is why there are threads in both forums. This followup involves a gaming firm making a decision not to publish on Oculus. This is a gaming side thread. It is possible to discuss politics on Gaming side where relevant.
Using publicly traceable money... People Gabe Newell has donated cash to:
- Chris Dodd for president
- the DNC (i.e. the Democratic Party)
- the DSCC (i.e. helping the Democrats win the Senate)
- Suzan Delbene for Congress (D-WA)
- Darcy Burner for Congress (D-WA)
- ActBlue (PAC designed for progressive fundraising)
- FDL Action PAC (a PAC run by Jane Hamsher, who is a left-progressive activist)
Incidentally, non-Gabe Valve employees have made Ron Paul contributions, but no other Republican contributions. This cycle, by far the biggest recipient of Valve employee money was Bernie.
therealist
Member
Well racism is a difficult concept to grasp if you've never experience it nor have you been around people who have experienced it. That's why people are oblivious. It's like sex, unless you've had sex do you really know what it's like? I don't disagree that they are "just as harmful" as someone who is a clear cut racist, but the reason why I use that distinction is below...
Calling people racists makes it less likely that they will be receptive to any change, and that is my opinion. It actually makes people more defensive and more stubborn.
People who are legitimate stormfront members sure call them racists, but calling oblivious grandmas racists likely does no good at all and probably does damage.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Supporting a candidate and paying untold amounts of money to some weird SuperPAC spearheaded by fucking Milo are different things.
If he just said #Trump2016 and #MAGA on twitter it would not have created the shitstorm you're witnessing.
That already goes with out saying that you may not agree with all, but your candidate is not going to just change their views just because you didn't like some of them. So if Trump ends up making a registry for Muslims which he has said if, god forbid, is elected and he does it and you voted for him knowing that. All you would say is "that was not what I supported." Your collection of votes supported him in to office.
Lots of ad hominem attacks in there with baseless insults. Big nasty words that are used to make people angry and not make rational decisions.
Sounds like you are avoiding something.
But...you learn what sex is from school, your parents, the internet, your friends, etc..lmao
Why do you want to protect racists so much? What have they done for you?
NoFaceNico
Member
But "implicitly supporting" is not anywhere near black & white, 100% support the original poster was arguing for. And again, there are plenty of examples in history when even members of the President's own cabinet didn't agree and resigned on him. Does that mean they switched over to the other side? Are they not allowed to vote for him anymore? Of course not, it's okay to disagree and even show it. It's healthy because our candidates should be representatives of their constituents, not the other way around. Having members in your own party and voters that disagree and aren't 'yes men' is a good thing, not a sign of weakness.
Floyd
Member
Totally disagree that you are all in with a candidate. And to vote for them you must agree with everything they say. Only a chronic simpleton would even suggest such a thing. Coal miners and army veterans for example. I fully understand why they would vote for that fat useless prick, and i don't believe for one second they are racist.
Many voters past and present will happily ignore a candidates many character flaws if a couple of policies they hold dear benefit them.
Many voters past and present will happily ignore a candidates many character flaws if a couple of policies they hold dear benefit them.
therealist
Member
parents, school, friends is no substitute for doing the act...a person who has had sex knows 100x more about what it's like than a virgin who writes a research paper on it lol
I don't protect racists, I have a disagreement on who is a racist.
Soldiussnaku
Member
A tip of the hat to the devs, fully support thier actions against, hope more other devs follow.
Why is if somebody uses the word racist or bigot that it is automatically accepted as true? Those are meaningful words that are used carelessly.
This is honestly one of the strangest posts I've ever read, and frankly I think your analogy fucking sucks and makes you look like a racist apologist.
You're telling me that people can't understand what racism is unless they've experienced it? That's delusional. I learned what racism was from a history book. It's not exactly a hard concept to grasp.
thanks for this one, mods. i think i was about to get myself banned again lmfao
charlequin
Banned
First: as always, PM someone on staff when you see something. Even with the number of mods we have, we read some small fraction of the huge number of posts on the board on our own -- we are not just likely, but certain to miss things otherwise.
Second: in general we very much agree with you! Our moderation policy is to enforce positive behavior between members of the site and to try to keep interesting and respectful conversations going. If people are just name-calling that's not conducive to that type of discussion, so we certainly want to discourage that.
However! There's a level at which people must be responsible for the consequences of their own choices. "Racist" can be an insulting term to have attache to you, but it's also a real thing that has a real meaning -- clearly, some people are racist, and it's by their behavior and choices that we can tell that. We are way past the point of putting a fig leaf on the racialized elements of the Trump campaign. If someone is choosing to align themselves with that, their ability to claim that "racist" is an insult beyond the pale is dramatically reduced. We'd prefer people not getting called racist, but we prefer not giving cover to racist behavior even more.
EatinOlives
Member
Not that you are all in with a candidate. You are all in with Trump specifically. He does not have any kind of a platform and does not talk about anything other than his abhorrent viewpoints on a daily basis.
The harder one has to dig into his bullshit to find the one little gem of a viewpoint they agree with so they can cling on to, the more you have to question the morals of the people willing to get bullshit all over the hands, face, up their noise and in their mouths as they find that one gem. What is REALLY truly important to those people, if they're willing to jump in on that mountain and ignore all the bullshit? Because there's so much of it you can't really ignore it. And there's so much of it that you can't really place Trump and his "platform" under the frame that one would any other major political candidate.
The real problem is people failing to grasp exactly what makes Trump uniquely threatening. There's little use in holding him up to standards afforded to other politicians (aka "I can vote for the guy even if I don't agree with X or Y"), when he himself regularly doesn't hold himself up to ANY standard. Like I said in another post, there has to be a sanity check.
That is not what I was saying, no one said you must agree. ALTHOUGH, you can only cast a vote for one or not vote at all. If you vote for them you may not support some policies but you are essentially supporting them regardless of shortcomings lol. I just dont know how else to put this. I dont agree with Hillary on some things but I am essentially in support of them by voting for her and I have to live with that.
...? You might not support Hillary's pro-choice stance, you might love it, and you might not give a fuck either way.
By voting for her, you are expressing support for her stance, whether you like it or not. That is what it means to vote for a presidential candidate in our current system of voting. Until we implement a fucked up style of voting that lets you pick and choose which policies you support, that is how the system is and how it works. I don't think Noctis or I could make it any simpler lol.
For some people, Hillary's stance can make or break their support, and it's up to them whether they can deal with the implications of voting for her. Like I said, I am not totally on board with her foreign policy stances, but given her other ideas that I agree with, and the alternative, I sure as hell can live with my choice.
jediyoshi
Member
Write up on other developers dropping Oculus support. Not a great time for them trying to launch Touch.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/vr-devs-pull-support-for-oculus-rift-until-palmer-luckey-steps-down
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/vr-devs-pull-support-for-oculus-rift-until-palmer-luckey-steps-down
therealist
Member
I'm saying it's a lot harder to do so. You can give people studies, books, and the like trying to explain racism. Some people will interpret it correctly, some people won't interpret it correctly at all, a lot of people may fall somewhere in between. Call them stupid, ignorant, oblivious, whatever, but not racist.
The core point really is that it's not constructive to call half of America racist. Educate half of America on what racism is, and it's tough because people become more stubborn as they age. It still is the better way to go, in my opinion.
NoFaceNico
Member
People equally fail to grasp that America is not a totalitarian state. Trump getting elected does not mean he is our unquestionable dictator for life. We have a three branch government with checks and balances, the president is only one third and there's plenty of opportunity to override him. Presidents actually don't hold nearly as much power as people expect them to. Can you even name what they do? Aside from foreign policy they make executive orders and sign or veto bills into law (after they already pass through both houses of congress) and not really much else.
Think of it this way- President Obama was barely able to get the Affordable Care Act in motion, so how do you expect the most blatantly unconstitutional policies of Trump to go completely unchallenged? I'm sure as hell not voting for Trump, but even if he is elected I think people are going to be surprised at how ineffectual he actually is once he gets into office. I think he knows this too. He's just drumming up crazy ideas for votes knowing his ideas won't pass and he can blame that failure on his enemies.
charlequin
Banned
It's not constructive for half of America to support a white supremacist!
Inferno313
Banned
Love the folks who act like calling someone racist is almost as bad as being racist.
Oh yeah, it's real fucking easy to tell the people actually affected by racism, homophobia, misogyny, and xenophobia to just go and educate people right? To take away all the responsibility from stupid people in order to coddle them like tiny little babies who don't know any better?
Maybe these ignorant and oblivious folks need to get a fucking education and read a damn book, and educate their own damn selves.
http://archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/
Full stop, it's not my fucking job to educate people on what racism is and why it's bad. I do it, but I can't do it all, and people need to want to be educated, and to learn, and to change. I can't force that. That's on them.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
he has a huge advantage due to the uneducated liking him more than hillary. but don't say that or post quantifiable polls or data because it might hurt someone's feelings somewhere
EatinOlives
Member
You're operating under the mistaken assumption that the GOP AND the Democrats would go against everything he says and does. Make no mistake, if he wins the GOP will be backing him 110% on everything he does. After all, he would have found a way to completely turn the rules of politics on its head, he's going to become their new Reagan. The only reason we're getting the hemming and hawwing from Republicans is to cover their asses when he loses the general, but if he were to win they're still with one foot in the door. Why would they turn on him when he just won them the election?
At any rate, he's already made it pretty damn clear that he doesn't actually want the job and would all but unofficially appoint Pence as the president. Have you seen what Pence says and his political platform? Because it's another whole kind of twisted far-right bullshit that's going to put plenty of people under undue stress.
Another incredibly harmful thing he's doing is fracturing the culture and race relations of the US. The amount of hate crime that has occurred has increased ever since Trump became popular, because he empowers bigots, sexists, racists, and xenophobes just like him and some of them are more than happy to take matters to their own hands. Do you think that issue would get better, not worse, if Trump gets elected? You don't think they'd feel even MORE empowered if he gets elected into office? The amount of damage he'd do is far, far bigger than what legislation he can push. This is exactly what I'm referring to when I say that people don't understand why Trump is uniquely threatening.
And this doesn't even cover the issue of Supreme Court appointees. Even if Trump is a complete lame-duck president that's not something you want to just shrug and say "eh, separation of powers" on.
They don't support that particular part though, so it doesn't matter! /s
I can't believe we're having this exact same argument on a different thread on the gaming side.
If you VOTE FOR SOMEONE, you are supporting all their policies , even if you disagree with them. You are ENABLING them to go on.
How do people not see this? They just really don't want to be associated with white supremacy.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Fuck right off and implode, white supremacist Oculus trash. It was the worst of the headsets anyway. If I were Facebook, I would sever ties with the name and release new hardware immediately. Or reinvest and partner with Google or HTC/Vive. Feel bad for the folks that picked the wrong horse in this VR race.
NoFaceNico
Member
I see what you're trying to do, you're arguing an absolutist position because then you can say everyone follows Hillary/Trump on 100% of their issues like a hive mind and you don't have to factor in people who think for themselves. But you're arguing yourself into a corner because what you propose is logically impossible with the way people vote and I'll prove it to you.
In the last presidential election I voted for a congressman who was in favor of abolishing the death penalty AND and president that was in favor of keeping the status quo. I strongly supported both candidates. So on the issue of the death penalty, which side am I on? According to your logic where I am always supporting each and every one of my candidates opinions 100%, that means I am 100% in favor of abolishing the death penalty while at the exact same time being 100% in favor of keeping it. So you see, your absolutist position makes no logical sense.
lmfao how do you not understand