Imagine if it were the other way around and this poor dead woman was the one who rear-ended Jenner into oncoming traffic and an early, completely avoidable death. She'd be in jail for the rest of her life, probably.
Really? Because I've known the phone wasn't a factor since when the news first broke sooo...
Caitlyn is only like four years younger than the victim
What?
No, I "randomly" popped in to this thread to annoy you.Did you really just randomly pop in to rant about this in response to "cell phone usage wasn't a factor"?
Oh, well then you must have been in the car with her when it happened since multiple news outlets at the time reported that it was.
I wasn't aware I apologized for anything.No, I "randomly" popped in to this thread to annoy you.
What, if Dave, Inc can be an unapologetic apologist for cell phone usage while driving, why can't I be an apologist for bad driving. As Dave points out, the American drivers' education system is so bad, it's amazing we don't run over ourselves.
Yeah pretty typical tailgating incident. Saw one just like it the other day that very nearly ended in a fatality. Third car served into incoming traffic.Seems like the deceased slowed down or stopped suddenly, was then hit by a car, then that car was hit by Jenner. As much as I believe in people paying for their crimes, I have a hard time feeling like this was anything more than a horrible, tragic accident.
"I say it again and again, but driver training in America sucks dick so we can't act all surprised and outraged when someone does something stupid and ends up killing people."I wasn't aware I apologized for anything.
Point out the apology in there, please."I say it again and again, but driver training in America sucks dick so we can't act all surprised and outraged when someone does something stupid and ends up killing people."
No, I "randomly" popped in to this thread to annoy you.
What, if Dave, Inc can be an unapologetic apologist for cell phone usage while driving, why can't I be an apologist for bad driving. As Dave points out, the American drivers' education system is so bad, it's amazing we don't run over ourselves.
EDIT:
To make this clear, since you and I seem to have a fundamental inability to communicate with each other:
- Dave says bad driving and using a cell phone is no reason to charge someone with manslaughter.
- I find both to be perfectly reasonable reasons to charge someone with manslaughter (but haven't posted as such since I'm still reading the thread.)
- Dave continues defending his perspective and posits that he's the only one out of everyone here that is really trying to understand everything. I guess anyone that has the audacity to disagree with him is a fucking redneck bumpkin.
- excelsiorlef points out that the cell phone wasn't an issue
- Now caught up to the thread, I sarcasticly use Dave's initial defense so as to mock it.
I literally read multiple stores that explicitly said it wasn't.
Caitlyn is only like four years younger than the victim
You could make an argument that the awareness rises when people face more severe consequences.I'm 100% serious. People know drunk driving is dangerous and react to others doing it. How many people do you see driving down the road on their cellphone? Do police pull them over? How often do passengers speak up when the driver answers a call, or uses a phone to text?
The level of awareness right now is "Well I know I shouldn't, but I'm a safe driver I'll be okay." Until that changes you can't just slap people with 10-20 year prison sentences for phone use leading to an accident. What good does that do for anyone?
Yes, which is why it's such a shame that regular cellphone use laws are not enforced more strictly. It's only when a crash happens that people see legal consequences.You could make an argument that this awareness changes if people face more severe consequences.
Every crash (not accident) is caused by someone fucking up and doing something wrong. Is cellphone use significantly more dangerous? Yeah. Do I feel that it justifies otherwise normal people who don't fully grasp its risks going to jail? No, that's fucking ludicrous.
Jail is for people who are dangerous to others. Fine, revocation of their license and a requirement for extensive education is appropriate, not jail time.
It's funny that nobody has offered a counter argument aside from deterrence, which I agree with in concept but not execution. Just a while lot of "of course people should go to jail!" Not a very good argument.Crack is whack, Dave.
Good.
I guess this person has done a lot of good work increasing the visibility of transgendered people but she certainly doesn't deserve the adulation.
It was well known that she killed somebody while talking on the phone before her transformation.
Uhhh... and? Both deaths would be early. Are you saying that because the victim had some years on Jenner, her life is worth less?
It was well known that she killed somebody while talking on the phone before her transformation.
Here's a counter argument you may have missed since it was in my edit:It's funny that nobody has offered a counter argument aside from deterrence, which I agree with in concept but not execution. Just a while lot of "of course people should go to jail!" Not a very good argument.
Don't post if you're not going to read the thread. It wastes everyone's time.Here's a counter argument you may have missed since it was in my edit:
How do you think people became aware that drunk driving was so bad in the first place? It was a fairly winked at offense for a long time until MADD came around and aggressively pushed for punishing it much more harshly.
Since you're the only one trying to understand things, maybe you should tell everyone to get off your lawn.Don't post if you're not going to read the thread. It wastes everyone's time.
Well then let me politely suggest you read my comments I've already posted regarding penalties. There are a few.Since you're the only one trying to understand things, maybe you should tell everyone to get off your lawn.
And let me politely point out my response to your comments that MADD's efforts to step up punishments for drunk driving helped people become aware of just how dangerous drunk driving is. Applying manslaughter laws in vehicular manslaughter cases (whether from just plain bad driving as appears here, or cell phone use in other cases,) is an appropriate punishment which raises the profile of the risks of irresponsible driving.Well then let me politely suggest you read my comments I've already posted regarding penalties. There are a few.
No cell phone involved
As part of that, we need stronger enforcement for cell phone use when crashes aren't involved. If the only serious consequence is when somebody dies as a result of cell phone use the deterrent won't be effective. If we want to go that route then preventative law enforcement is required. There. As of right now, though, manslaughter charges with jail time are ineffective deterrents with irrational sentencing.And let me politely point out my response to your comments that MADD's efforts to step up punishments for drunk driving helped people become aware of just how dangerous drunk driving is. Applying manslaughter laws in vehicular manslaughter cases (whether from just plain bad driving as appears here, or cell phone use in other cases,) is an appropriate deterrent to irresponsible driving.
Would Jenner go to boy jail or girl jail if this goes that far? I know it won't, but I'm curious. That's an aspect I've never considered.
To me this feels almost worse like cmon meng... were you TRYING to kill this person? You weren't even distracted? This was you trying your best here?
"I bet we can jump that car in front of us."
"...... double dog dare you."
Don't post if you're not going to read the thread. It wastes everyone's time.
No argument on stronger enforcement of existing cell phone laws. But just because we can do a better job there doesn't mean we shouldn't get "upset when somebody does something they shouldn't."As part of that, we need stronger enforcement for cell phone use when crashes aren't involved. If the only serious consequence is when somebody dies as a result of cell phone use the deterrent won't be effective. If we want to go that route then preventative law enforcement is required. There. As of right now, though, manslaughter charges with jail time are ineffective deterrents with irrational sentencing.
Imagine if it were the other way around and this poor dead woman was the one who rear-ended Jenner into oncoming traffic and an early, completely avoidable death. She'd be in jail for the rest of her life, probably.
As Dave points out, the American drivers' education system is so bad, it's amazing we don't run over ourselves.
To me this feels almost worse like cmon meng... were you TRYING to kill this person? You weren't even distracted? This was you trying your best here?
"I bet we can jump that car in front of us."
"...... double dog dare you."
Edit: Also, let's move on past Dave's rather unique take on the situation.
She was following too close, car in front stopped suddenly she was unable to stop. Negligence? Maybe. Intentional malice? No
"Oops I'm bad at driving" is a pretty shitty reason to charge someone with felony manslaughter (Yeah I see it's misdemeanor manslaughter, good). I say it again and again, but driver training in America sucks dick so we can't act all surprised and outraged when someone does something stupid and ends up killing people.
1 year for manslaughter? Oh right, rich. So it'll really be one hour until bail is paid.
I like how a year or two is apparently really lenient. It's a tragic accident, in any sane country you would maybe get a fine / have your license suspended.
Jenner killed someone. If you watch the video of the accident Jenner was driving like an asshole. The tragedy in this case like most of them is the asshole survives and walks away while the victims go in the ground