She'll be responsible in the civil case, no doubt. But that doesn't automatically make it a crime. There has to be some form of criminal negligence at play (driving where she shouldn't be driving, speeding in excess of XXmph, reading text messages while driving, etc).
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Prosecutors decline to charge Caitlyn Jenner in fatal crash
- Thread starter SteveO409
- Start date
- Status
She'll be responsible in the civil case, no doubt. But that doesn't automatically make it a crime. There has to be some form of criminal negligence at play (driving where she shouldn't be driving, speeding in excess of XXmph, reading text messages while driving, etc).
She was driving under the speed limit.
Flying Toaster
Member
Unfortunately this needs to be re-stated
And what about the distance from the car in front of her?
But she was driving at unsafe speeds. That was confirmed.
You don't try and go 55 mph during congestion, of course, and you'd go to prison if you tried to and rammed into someone.
"But officer, I was under the speed limit!"
HawksWinStanley
Member
I don't understand why the posted speed limit would matter in this instance.
SmackDaddy
Member
He's uh, correct. If you rear end someone you are fucked
jediyoshi
Member
This, I thought it was literally just a non sequitur
Over and over apparently, lol.
Here's the sheet as filled out by the prisecutor. Everyone should read it.
http://documents.latimes.com/caitlyn-jenner-declination/
DoktorEvil
Banned
It's really difficult to watch. The woman was following the flow of traffic and Jenner's car careens into it while being chased by paparazzi.
My question: Why aren't the paparazzi being charge for a criminal offense?
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
Well, I have no issue with calling her a she, but isn't she still technically a male? I haven't really been keeping up with her status.
In this thread we all learn the difference between civil liability and criminal negligence.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Of course if we're going to put things into the proper context, when hauling something in a heavy vehicle you're not meant to be traveling anywhere near the speed limit other vehicles are moving at and you're definitely not meant to be following so closely at said speeds that you don't have enough of a braking runway to avoid hitting the next two cars in front of you
Jenner fucked up. The prosecution failing to aggressively pursue charges raises legitimate questions about special treatment in deference to the suspect's established fame and privilege.
She identifies as female, so she's female.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Questionable at the very least.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
But you're not wrong if you refer to her as a male. It's not like people are being malicious
You very much are.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
But she's male until she's not. I guess I just don't get it. You can't just say you're something different than you are until you make a physical alteration.
sensui-tomo
Member
Image is meant as a joke, but you would be wrong, you have to refer her as a female, regardless of how you think otherwise. But celebrity status screws over another family, civil case will go through though.
Yes you are. Unless it's an accident of some sort, you are absolutely being malicious.
timetokill
Banned
I mean, I guess you could say "biological male presenting as female" but why unless you're doing some science or something and it's actually relevant? Just say she/her.
Unless, of course, you just want to be a jerk about it ?
When it comes to these types of things, you go by what the person identifies as. It's a very sensitive topic, so you defer to the person's wishes.
Genitalia isn't what makes you male or female.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
And I do use she/her.. I just find the witch hunt against people who use the undesired pronoun interesting because there's clearly no malicious intent.
Gentleman Jack
Member
That's not the dimension being argued when it comes to gender identity. If someone identifies as female, just respect it and don't staple on your own personal requirements for using a pronoun.
Here is why they didn't:
http://documents.latimes.com/caitlyn-jenner-declination/
Refer to the definition of misdemeanor vehicular homicide in California for further details.
People seem really confused about this, but no one is arguing she didn't hit the car. That's not enough to be found criminally liable.
StopMakingSense
Member
Just being at fault will not get you automatically charged with vehicular homicide. This happens all the time.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
Pretty sure the doctors determined my biological sex by seeing my penis. Should we no longer mark male/female on birth certificates?
If someone asks you to refer to them one way, and you chose not to, you are maliciously disregarding their wishes.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
Again, I respect her wishes and refer to her as a she. It's just the uproar over folks saying "he" I find a bit misguided and inappropriate. These people arent saying "he " out of a lack of respect for Jenner.
I don't know why people are surprised by this. People die in car accidents all the time and there's not a huge flood of people going to prison over it. I seriously doubt it had much to do with her famous/rich status. It's very difficult to charge people for vehicular homicide unless you have definitive proof negligence (like DUI). Best case scenario for the family is a large civil suit and hefty compensation. Which will most likely be a lot better than most victim's families get because Jenner actually has wealth to go after.
The Lone Courier
Member
HawksWinStanley
Member
It's a weird topic because people confuse gender and sex. Obviously Jenner's sex is male on a biological level. No matter what she does she can't change that. But she wishes to identify as a female, so that's how you address her when referencing her.
So yeah, kind of a touchy topic. And I think for the most part GAF is too quick to jump down people's throats when they genuinely don't realize the difference.
For most cases genitalia correlates with gender, however there is not always a causal relationship.
You seem quite resistant to this and that's why people go after folks who don't use the proper pronoun. It's usually from people trying very hard to not listen.
timetokill
Banned
Well, not exactly. I mean, as far as presented gender, probably (excluding complete ignorance over transgender issues, which doesn't necessarily imply malice). But if I went around and asked people to call me "the great timetokill" and they didn't, I don't think it would necessarily be out of malice.
lol
Gentleman Jack
Member
At some point the benefit of the doubt eroded as Jenner's transition has been national headlines for many months now. They might be innocent mistakes, but people are tired of assuming as much considering how often folks indignantly defended their misgendering in the past.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
I think most people are just apathetic. It requires effort to change and most of us are dealing with more personal issues and maybe can't keep up as expected with the latest social SOPs.
TheSpoiler
Member
That's all well and good, but if you ask people to explain it and then refuse to accept it with some mental gymnastics, you probably have the time to think about why people call her a "she" rather than "he".
If you honestly believe this, you need to go back to drivers ed or stop driving altogether. If you don't give yourself enough distance between you and the car in front of you to avoid a collision, you are a bad driver. There is not an insurance company or court that would be on your side.
This is an example of Reductio ad absurdum.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked