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Sheriff's investigators to recommend manslaughter charge for Caitlyn Jenner
- Thread starter LyleLanley
- Start date
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A Link to the Past
Banned
Caitlyn is only like four years younger than the victim
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Oh, well then you must have been in the car with her when it happened since multiple news outlets at the time reported that it was.
OverBlood 3
Banned
A Link to the Past
Banned
Unless I'm mistaken and the post was saying that both deaths were early.
Squirrel Killer
Member
No, I "randomly" popped in to this thread to annoy you.
What, if Dave, Inc can be an unapologetic apologist for cell phone usage while driving, why can't I be an apologist for bad driving. As Dave points out, the American drivers' education system is so bad, it's amazing we don't run over ourselves.
EDIT:
To make this clear, since you and I seem to have a fundamental inability to communicate with each other:
- Dave says bad driving and using a cell phone is no reason to charge someone with manslaughter.
- I find both to be perfectly reasonable reasons to charge someone with manslaughter (but haven't posted as such since I'm still reading the thread.)
- Dave continues defending his perspective and posits that he's the only one out of everyone here that is really trying to understand everything. I guess anyone that has the audacity to disagree with him is a fucking redneck bumpkin.
- excelsiorlef points out that the cell phone wasn't an issue
- Now caught up to the thread, I sarcasticly use Dave's initial defense so as to mock it.
excelsiorlef
Member
I literally read multiple stores that explicitly said it wasn't.
Seems like the deceased slowed down or stopped suddenly, was then hit by a car, then that car was hit by Jenner. As much as I believe in people paying for their crimes, I have a hard time feeling like this was anything more than a horrible, tragic accident.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I wasn't aware I apologized for anything.
Yeah pretty typical tailgating incident. Saw one just like it the other day that very nearly ended in a fatality. Third car served into incoming traffic.
Squirrel Killer
Member
"I say it again and again, but driver training in America sucks dick so we can't act all surprised and outraged when someone does something stupid and ends up killing people."
"I'm not familiar with the case, but let's not act like driver education is to the point where society has firmly grasped the risks of using a phone while driving. Certainly not enough to warrant felony charges for doing it."
"How about we actually train people to drive before issuing licenses before we get all upset when somebody does something they shouldn't."
As an aside, how do you think people became aware that drunk driving was so bad in the first place? It was a fairly winked at offense for a long time until MADD came around and aggressively pushed for punishing it much more harshly.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Point out the apology in there, please.
A Link to the Past
Banned
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Okay, and I read multiple stories that say she was. Apparently since that time it was determined she wasn't on her phone and I admitted I was mistaken.
What's your goal here?
Uhhh... and? Both deaths would be early. Are you saying that because the victim had some years on Jenner, her life is worth less?
Vicetrailia
Member
She's rich she'll get off.
You could make an argument that the awareness rises when people face more severe consequences.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Yes, which is why it's such a shame that regular cellphone use laws are not enforced more strictly. It's only when a crash happens that people see legal consequences.
Crack is whack, Dave.
Bel Marduk
Banned
Good.
I guess this person has done a lot of good work increasing the visibility of transgendered people but she certainly doesn't deserve the adulation.
It was well known that she killed somebody while talking on the phone before her transformation.
I guess this person has done a lot of good work increasing the visibility of transgendered people but she certainly doesn't deserve the adulation.
It was well known that she killed somebody while talking on the phone before her transformation.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
It's funny that nobody has offered a counter argument aside from deterrence, which I agree with in concept but not execution. Just a while lot of "of course people should go to jail!" Not a very good argument.
The world needs some serious talk on how trans people are treated in prison ... Go go Jenner to talk to raise awareness of how wrong is to trow a vanity fair girl cover on a men's jail
A Link to the Past
Banned
No, I had thought you were saying that Caitlyn was much younger and that as such her death was early.
Put 30 quotations around known please.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Here's a counter argument you may have missed since it was in my edit:
How do you think people became aware that drunk driving was so bad in the first place? It was a fairly winked at offense for a long time until MADD came around and aggressively pushed for punishing it much more harshly.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Don't post if you're not going to read the thread. It wastes everyone's time.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Since you're the only one trying to understand things, maybe you should tell everyone to get off your lawn.
Until then, maybe you want to respond to my counter argument or point me to where you already addressed it?
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Well then let me politely suggest you read my comments I've already posted regarding penalties. There are a few.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
EDIT: Ahh, no phone was used. Well that changes things
killamajig
Member
No cell phone involved
Squirrel Killer
Member
And let me politely point out my response to your comments that MADD's efforts to step up punishments for drunk driving helped people become aware of just how dangerous drunk driving is. Applying manslaughter laws in vehicular manslaughter cases (whether from just plain bad driving as appears here, or cell phone use in other cases,) is an appropriate punishment which raises the profile of the risks of irresponsible driving.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
To me this feels almost worse like cmon meng... were you TRYING to kill this person? You weren't even distracted? This was you trying your best here?
"I bet we can jump that car in front of us."
"...... double dog dare you."
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
As part of that, we need stronger enforcement for cell phone use when crashes aren't involved. If the only serious consequence is when somebody dies as a result of cell phone use the deterrent won't be effective. If we want to go that route then preventative law enforcement is required. There. As of right now, though, manslaughter charges with jail time are ineffective deterrents with irrational sentencing.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I don't know the laws in Cali, but
1. Caitlyn should definitely go to a women's jail/prison.
2. Considering that the charge she may get is misdemeanor manslaughter, she may not have to go to either.
Oh come on. It's a shitty situation, but what probably happened was that she got distracted by something else.
You have to be trolling. Nobody is this fucking dumb.
If people aren't punished appropriately for KILLING someone for driving irresponsibly then there's no weight behind asking people to drive responsibly in the first place. In most circumstances I'd bring up the "Imagine if it was your Mother/Father/Sister/Brother" hypothetical here, but with someone as boneheaded as you there's really no point.
Squirrel Killer
Member
No argument on stronger enforcement of existing cell phone laws. But just because we can do a better job there doesn't mean we shouldn't get "upset when somebody does something they shouldn't."
Also, I don't necessarily disagree with you that "bad driving" shouldn't result in jail time. Sentencing for manslaughter should be flexible enough to account for context.
Yup. I fucking hate how rich/famous people get off the hook for this type of stuff.
I edited the OP to include more information about the cause of the accident, including confirmation that no cell phones were in use at the time of the accident. It seems clear from the reconstruction that the issue was the loaded trailer behind her, which changed the stopping distance of the vehicle.
From this point on I'm going to assume anyone who keeps going on about the cell phone hasn't read the OP.
Edit: Also, let's move on past Dave's rather unique take on the situation.
From this point on I'm going to assume anyone who keeps going on about the cell phone hasn't read the OP.
Edit: Also, let's move on past Dave's rather unique take on the situation.
Sir Abacus
Member
The American style of licensing doesn't actually figure out if you can drive. The American style of licensing is to both make sure you vaguely know the rules and have something to take away when you fuck up so if you try to drive again they can throw the book at you.
excelsiorlef
Member
She was following too close, car in front stopped suddenly she was unable to stop. Negligence? Maybe. Intentional malice? No
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
My mom was right all along, I am special!
Sir Abacus
Member
Don't forget it was damp/wet and she was in a Cadillac Escalade which probably has a gross weight of five and a half to six thousand pounds and towing an off road vehicle and trailer which could be anywhere from eleven hundred to eighteen hundred pounds of dune buggy and another five hundred pounds for the trailer.
Plus since California had a particularly dry winter there would have been more oil and shit on the road than would normally be later in winter.
Stopping 8000 pounds of vehicle in the wet in a hurry isn't really a thing that is possible without something being in front. To be following close is positively suicidal.
blankempathy
Member
I don't know if its just me but I drive a truck and when I'm carrying nothing and the road conditions are clear I drive normally. When its raining I drive a little bit slower and brake sooner while following slightly further away. When I'm hauling crap I also drive slower and take more time to brake and also follow further away. Its not rocket science. Its common sense and should be a basic understanding that gee when you're hauling something heavy that maybe, i dunno maybe, you should be more cautious. I enjoy living and I don't want to harm another human being. When you're behind a 2 ton vehicle Its probably best to understand how to properly operate it. Not being "properly trained" is a shitty excuse. I guess its crazy to expect grown adults operating a potentially dangerous vehicle to regulate their own training. Obviously we need big brother to step in and again take away more liberty because some people like to ruin it for everyone else. What the hell happened to personal responsibility?
Edit: didn't see the mod post above.
Earthpainting
Member
How do they determine that cellphone stuff any way? It sounds like they just checked the call logs and the car kit, but there are plenty of ways phones get used in the car that do not get logged by networks, or by your car. It's made even more muddy with that data is usually on at all times, and non-stop app notifications.
Not that the phone would matter much in situations like this. Tailgating is common behaviour, even when people have their full attention. Sticking too close to a car is one of those types of things that will usually result in a collision when minor hitches in the flow of traffic occur. There's a reason why distances are kept, and why many modern cars will give you warnings that you're too close for your speed.
Not that the phone would matter much in situations like this. Tailgating is common behaviour, even when people have their full attention. Sticking too close to a car is one of those types of things that will usually result in a collision when minor hitches in the flow of traffic occur. There's a reason why distances are kept, and why many modern cars will give you warnings that you're too close for your speed.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
The maximum jail term is not really determined by whether you're rich or not. Got to read properly.
Sounds like a tragic accident more than anything.
Jenner killed someone. If you watch the video of the accident Jenner was driving like an asshole. The tragedy in this case like most of them is the asshole survives and walks away while the victims go in the ground
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
Do you have a link to the video?
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