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Bernie Sanders Campaign files procedural papers to continue lawsuit against DNC

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I dont think the reaction was THAT unreasonable. Was it somewhat biased and unfair? Probably.. imo

Wasn't it like one new dude fired immediately?
Wasn't it a clear technical issue fixed pretty much immediately?

To me, there was no precaution. It was clearly punitive. I dont anything is that big of a deal. But I can see the bias and call it out. Would i sue? At this point? Meh.

Four separate accounts accessing the info. One dude fired immediately.

Still don't know if they considered the contract breached on notification, or moment of the incident. If moment of incident, the ten day period had already expired. Meaning the contract they made with the Sanders campaign was null and void. Given the speed with which it was worked out I'm guessing it was upon notification.
 

ElFly

Member
Did the DNC breach their contract and break proper protocol or not?

Does this help him win voters when he is way below in the competition or not?

Suing for $75000 when the presidency of the united states is in risk is basically the definition of pettiness.

I hope he wins the lawsuit cause it will be a consolation price when he loses the nomination.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
IMO the DNC was in clear breach of contract so he can sue them if he wants. But yeah it is obviously sort of a stupid thing to do. But it wouldn't be the first silly thing the Sanders campaign did!
 
He's not even dying on this hill.

He died like 20 hills ago. This is just his shambling corpse trying to accomplish something and most likely failing.

He's not going to turn the election or root out institutional corruption by doing this. So yeah, it's fairly pointless. He gains nothing from doing it.
 

royalan

Member
Did the DNC breach their contract and break proper protocol or not?

Did Bernie's campaign not break protocol first? Just because it may not have been spelled out in 5th grade language in the contract doesn't mean they didn't break protocol. Hell, they even admitted that they were accessing competitor data they KNEW they wouldn't have had access to had the firewall been up.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Four separate accounts accessing the info. One dude fired immediately.

Still don't know if they considered the contract breached on notification, or moment of the incident. If moment of incident, the ten day period had already expired. Meaning the contract they made with the Sanders campaign was null and void. Given the speed with which it was worked out I'm guessing it was upon notification.
If the DNC wanted to pursue terminating the contract with cause, they should have done it with whatever mechanism was in the contract. That they reversed in like 24 hours gives you an indication they probably didn't do it the right way.
 
If the DNC wanted to pursue terminating the contract with cause, they should have done it with whatever mechanism was in the contract. That they reversed in like 24 hours gives you an indication they probably didn't do it the right way.

Neither side looks good here, and neither side has nothing to gain.

So why one side isn't just reading the situation and letting it go, I have no idea.
 
If the DNC wanted to pursue terminating the contract with cause, they should have done it with whatever mechanism was in the contract. That they reversed in like 24 hours gives you an indication they probably didn't do it the right way.
That's my assumption as well.
 

nib95

Banned
I've never said he doesn't have the right to bring the case.

What I have said from the very beginning, and will continue to say, is that it's an entirely asinine thing for him to do. He is suing the party he is trying to run to lead! For something that was rooted in his campaign's unethical behavior. The optics on that are absolutely shit. It's so stupid on so many levels.

He has access back. He got it back in less than 24 hours. It doesn't matter how right or wrong the DNC was in this instance. The lawsuit pissed a lot of people off. I know a lot of Bernie supporters have disdain for those of us who have been active in the party for a long time, but there was legit anger about it. My bf's mom has been working for our local democratic party since Carter ran. Shit like this? It pisses her off. The DNC, and people who get out there and do the grunt work for the party, would have been needed by Bernie if he was actually going to win this thing. Since he's probably not going to, it doesn't matter....but the audacity of suing the party you are trying to lead is just ridiculous.

It's not stupid at all, it's actually probably pretty strategic. If he wins the case it shows the DNC also acted incompetently and/or unethically, which then begs the question why. Do the DNC actually favour Hillary and have a bias against Bernie, and did they use this situation to indirectly display that? Or was it a simple mistake? In any case, depending on the result of the case, it could be a strategic move for Bernie with a wider goal, who no doubt is confident he'll win his case.
 

noshten

Member
People are flipping their shit because the original OP made it out like this was the action of a sore loser candidate.

Even after it was pointed out the suit started back in December - when we also had a 31 page thread on the same topic with the same outrage which I'd venture to guess a lot of people acting surprised in this thread took part of.

From how I see it, the damage that Sanders' campaign did to itself (by making itself look amateur, petty, etc.) was far greater than the damage done by the DNC removing database permissions for a day. If the DNC was trying to be punitive, I don't think they did a very good job.

Right, remind me how much he lost Iowa by and what exactly the narrative would have been had he won Iowa and NH? How much media talk would be about Trump in those few weeks and how much would there be for Bernie... but sure we can blame the media for pretty much securing Trump the nomination but the semantics are lost on you. A day can be quite important when you lose by such margins.
 

Adaren

Member
I dont think the reaction was THAT unreasonable. Was it somewhat biased and unfair? Probably.. imo

Wasn't it like one new dude fired immediately?
Wasn't it a clear technical issue fixed pretty much immediately?

To me, there was no precaution. It was clearly punitive. I dont anything is that big of a deal. But I can see the bias and call it out. Would i sue? At this point? Meh.

From how I see it, the damage that Sanders' campaign did to itself (by making itself look amateur, petty, etc.) was far greater than the damage done by the DNC removing database permissions for a day. If the DNC was trying to be punitive, I don't think they did a very good job.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
From how I see it, the damage that Sanders' campaign did to itself (by making itself look amateur, petty, etc.) was far greater than the damage done by the DNC removing database permissions for a day. If the DNC was trying to be punitive, I don't think they did a very good job.

I dont disagree.
Again im mostlt responding to the ridiculous thread outrage.
 
It's not stupid at all, it's actually probably pretty strategic. If he wins the case it shows the DNC also acted incompetently and/or unethically, which then begs the question why. Do the DNC actually favour Hillary and have a bias against Bernie, and did they use this situation to indirectly display that? Or was it a simple mistake? In any case, depending on the result of the case, it could be a strategic move for Bernie with a wider goal, who no doubt is confident he'll win his case.

What does Bernie have to gain from this?
 
Did the DNC breach their contract and break proper protocol or not?

No. Proper protocol is definitely to lock the door after a theft to make sure the thief is actually gone.

Common sense. If Bernie is so worried about contracts maybe his campaign shouldn't have stolen?
 

Steel

Banned
It was an indefinite ban until the lawsuit was dropped, then they revoked the ban.

And the Sanders campaign also denied that any data was downloaded until the ban was dropped. Data was downloaded.

As I said on the first page, I think the DNC looked bad when they did this. But now Bernie looks bad for bringing up shit that's well in the past and had no effect(actually it might've been beneficial to him at the time) on his campaign.
 
It's not stupid at all, it's actually probably pretty strategic. If he wins the case it shows the DNC also acted incompetently and/or unethically, which then begs the question why. Do the DNC actually favour Hillary and have a bias against Bernie, and did they use this situation to indirectly display that? Or was it a simple mistake? In any case, depending on the result of the case, it could be a strategic move for Bernie with a wider goal, who no doubt is confident he'll win his case.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

It's stupid because the origin of the problem is his campaign stole data from Hillary's team. You can't just ignore that part of this when trying to set a narrative. The argument would then be "Yes we broke the rules, but the DNC broke them even further!" It looks like a rationale for their bad behavior.

It's stupid because he's losing. Badly. This, if they actually tried to push that narrative, just makes him look like a sore loser. "I couldn't win, so I sued them!" Again, I'm not talking about the reality of the situation, but the perception of it. To the point that he's losing, this is a damn waste of everyone's time and money.

It's stupid because if he actually could win this thing, he needs the support of the DNC and Super Delegates. I can't think of a worse way to go about it than suing the freaking party. Hillary didn't sue the DNC in 2008 when they refused to seat delegates from Florida and Michigan, even though she was harmed (quite heavily) by that decision.

Finally, its stupid because Bernie takes money from the DSCC for his senate campaigns. He also seems to enjoy going to the fundraisers where people spend $33,000 to get in the door.
 
Even after it was pointed out the suit started back in December - when we also had a 31 page thread on the same topic with the same outrage which I'd venture to guess a lot of people acting surprised in this thread took part of.



Right, remind me how much he lost Iowa by and what exactly the narrative would have been had he won Iowa and NH? How much media talk would be about Trump in those few weeks and how much would there be for Bernie... but sure we can blame the media for pretty much securing Trump the nomination but the semantics are lost on you. A day can be quite important when you lose by such margins.

Wait so your argument is the DNC caused Sanders to lose Iowa.

By that logic you'd have a stronger case to say the data theft helped him keep it close.
 
lol, Sanders burning every bridge he's got, and is now looking for whole new bridges to burn.

Can't wait for this guy to fuck off so the adults can get to work.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Medicare for all will be a sticking point. I very much doubt we'll see it on the 2016 Democratic platform.

If Sanders can promise to support Clinton if she makes campaign financing like other countries, then single payer healthcare will have a much stronger chance in future elections. In fact, Sanders and his type will do much better in future elections.
 
If Sanders can promise to support Clinton if she makes campaign financing like other countries, then single payer healthcare will have a much stronger chance in future elections. In fact, Sanders and his type will do much better in future elections.
Is that public funding? If so, it's something our current VP has been trying to do for years.
 

noshten

Member
Wait so your argument is the DNC caused Sanders to lose Iowa.

By that logic you'd have a stronger case to say the data theft helped him keep it close.


A former Obama campaign data operative I talked to called it “a pretty devastating loss,” and others in the political data world said much the same. (People in that ever-so-analytical community are abuzz, but many declined to talk on the record.)

The DNC files are filled with public information — no private information, à la credit card company hacks, would have been compromised here — that’s been gathered from various secretaries of state offices across the country. Those files contain names, addresses, elections voted in, and in some states, date of birth and gender.

Without access to these files, the Sanders campaign’s ability to canvass voters in a targeted manner — go to this house, but not that one — is lost, as are its capabilities to create a tailor-made phone list to contact voters who are more likely to #FeelTheBern. It basically means Sanders staffers have to campaign like it’s 1999, and in this case, being old school is nothing to brag about.

Matt Klaber, a former developer at NGP VAN who also worked as the data director for John Edwards’s New Hampshire operation in 2008, said the campaign was dealing with a “pretty significant” loss, though he said that it’s possible the Sanders organization could work around the problem in the short-term.

“There might be lists of people to call that are still fresh,” Klaber said, noting the campaign could have saved or printed lists outside the NGP VAN system.

But the long-term effects are alarming enough that the Sanders campaign filed a lawsuit in federal court on Friday seeking to re-gain access to the DNC’s voter file, saying that the committee was “attempting to undermine” its campaign, and that the organization “continues to hold our data hostage.”

“Plaintiff is sustaining irrrepable [sic] injury and financial losses,” according to the Sanders campaign’s complaint, “that are incapable of precise calculation, but exceed $600,000.00 per day.”

The “our data” phrasing by the Sanders team might seem antithetical to the idea that campaigns essentially rent the DNC’s list for their purposes, but there are a couple of categories of data the Sanders team would be dealing with in the NGP VAN system. The big kahuna, the voter file that the firm has had a contract to manage since 2007, is the property of the DNC. Campaigns gather information from voters that serve to enrich this file — who a caller says they’ll vote for or whether a landline number is dead are seen as valuable tidbits — and they agree to update the system after the campaign so that future candidates can use it.

But what probably angers Sanders and his people the most is being locked out of information they’ve collected on potential Sanders volunteers. If a person whose door is knocked on says they’d like to volunteer for the campaign, that’s quite a boon, and the campaign would store that information away in the system. When staffers were locked out of the NGP VAN system, they would have lost access to these files, Klaber said.

As for the breach itself, he said any developer expects bugs to happen, but said he had never seen one like this.

“In my almost seven years there,” he said, “this kind of thing didn’t happen.”

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-berned-is-bernie-sanders-by-the-dnc-data-breach/


So yes it was significant enough, whether you think he actually used the information or not gathered by those four people is up to you.

There is a reason for this suit and certainly if it wasn't filed what are the guarantees they wouldn't have locked his campaign out of information for more than 24 hours.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
lol, Sanders burning every bridge he's got, and is now looking for whole new bridges to burn.

Can't wait for this guy to fuck off so the adults can get to work.
Who actually thinks like this? In what universe has Hillary not done incredibly stupid, petty, and cringe worthy things? Who else are the "adults" at work here in your mind? Donald Trump?

Oh, and fuck the DNC.
 

Damerman

Member
Yikes, bernie is defending himself and now he is a piece of shit and fuck him?

Where did this come from?

From this point on, i don't think i want to participate in any political discussions, y'all are irrational when it comes to this shit.
 
Ahaha Arizona screw job is such a fantastic phrase.

482107.jpg

not really related, but came to mind lol
 

shem935

Banned
Can you guys imagine if Clinton's campaign breached Bernie's data and then sued for it all while getting decimated in delegate count?
 
Yikes, bernie is defending himself and now he is a piece of shit and fuck him?

Where did this come from?

From this point on, i don't think i want to participate in any political discussions, y'all are irrational when it comes to this shit.

His camp stole data, he lost access for all of 24 hours.

He's acting like he's the victim here.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
So, at best it's an incredibly inept campaign decision. At worst, it's a prelude to either taking his campaign and going home, and doing nothing to help support Hillary or even worse, President Trump or Cruz via Independent run.

There is virtually no upside to the decision, and it's frankly baffling from every perspective unless you literally worship at the alter of Sanders and not his platform.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
I'm pretty sure most of the forum would bend over backwards to defend her if that had happened.

She's done far worse than that and most of the forum is already in fanboy mode bending over backwards to defend her.
 
So, at best it's an incredibly inept campaign decision. At worst, it's a prelude to either taking his campaign and going home, and doing nothing to help support Hillary or even worse, President Trump or Cruz via Independent run.

There is virtually no upside to the decision, and it's frankly baffling from every perspective unless you literally worship at the alter of Sanders and not his platform.

Yeah, I really don't see an upside to this decision. It feels like a "cut the nose to spite the face" type of move.
 

Nerokis

Member
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-berned-is-bernie-sanders-by-the-dnc-data-breach/


So yes it was significant enough, whether you think he actually used the information or not gathered by those four people is up to you.

There is a reason for this suit and certainly if it wasn't filed what are the guarantees they wouldn't have locked his campaign out of information for more than 24 hours.

You realize all the statements about how significant it is were operating under the assumption it would last longer than 24 hours, right? There is even an indication in the article that the short-term effect would be limited, and "short-term" undoubtedly referred to a longer period than a day.

It doesn't matter whether his campaign used the improperly obtained information. You seem to assuming that his campaign was operating with such limited organization that being locked out of the database for 24 hours was essentially the equivalent to a suspension of the campaign. That's a little dramatic, if you ask me. You can come up with much better "what if?" scenarios than ones having to do with the database.
 
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