Support NeoGAF

[Y2Kev]

OK two hours has passed. You both win Family Guy Level of Argumentation Post Award. May you be forever shamed.

 

[Trident]

Trump's the wrong comparison to Bernie. Trump doesn't believe in anything except his own sense of superiority. President Sanders would at the absolute least be trying to help people, whereas President Trump would just do whatever he wants.

Cruz is the better analogue. They're both ideological purists. Only Cruz is more self-aware, and Bernie is way less malevolent.

I don't imagine he'll take up any more of my thoughts after the convention. I do wonder if he'll try to primary Hillary in four years, in which case I'll return to my annoyance with him.

Bernie more malevolent than "shut down the government" Cruz? Good lord, people.

Edit: me no read good.

 

[Intheflorsh]

OK two hours has passed. You both win Family Guy Level of Argumentation Post Award. May you be forever shamed.

Has it really been two hours? I need to go lie down, I'm getting delirious.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Just look at the posts these past few pages, in which it has been stated that a conservative SCOTUS (via TRump) wouldn't be so bad because Bernie would cause more damage.

Nope. Sorry. Not acceptable. That was 2 people, one of whom wasn't even saying that.

 

[K.Jack]

The writings been on the walls for a while now. And Barney Frank was warning people 2 decades ago.

Huh, any recommended writings on that stuff?

 

[Mr. RPG]

Time is ticking for you to prove that HillaryGaf overwhelmingly prefers Trump to Bernie! Tick tock tick tock!

Alright, you win.

I recant what I had said earlier and I apologize to everyone here. I was wrong.

I should not have used the word "overwhelmingly" to exaggerate what I had said earlier.

Please forgive me and allow me to enjoy E3 this year on NeoGAF.

Edit: I think I'm going to stay out of these threads for awhile. I'll see you guys in June.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I found another issue that Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters can rally around: this election blows.

I imagine Hilary supporters think this election is great since she's winning and all.

 

[Intheflorsh]

I imagine Hilary supporters think this election is great since she's winning and all.

Then why is nobody happy?

No one is enjoying Bernie's last stand.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Then why is nobody happy?

No one is enjoying Bernie's last stand.

Because Bernie is an annoying man child.

 

[Intheflorsh]

Because Bernie is an annoying man child.

I'd argue he's a child man tbh.

 

[Hazmat]

Huh, any recommended writings on that stuff?

Quoting someone's earlier post:

It's amazing how a year can change someone's opinion. I went from liking Bernie Sanders, to being indifferent, to now just wishing he would go away and stop.

At this point I really feel Barney Frank's 1991 assessment of Sanders was 100% correct.

"His holier-than-thou attitude - saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone - really undercuts his effectiveness"

"To him, anybody who disagrees with him is a crook; there are no honest disagreements with people. Bernie's view of the world is that the great majority of people agree with him on all the issues and the only reason he does not win is that the Congress is crooked"​

 

[Aaronology]

Huh, any recommended writings on that stuff?

Frank has been bluntly outspoken against Bernie Sanders for a very, very long time. This is from 1991, via CDX's post:

"His holier-than-thou attitude - saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone - really undercuts his effectiveness"

"To him, anybody who disagrees with him is a crook; there are no honest disagreements with people. Bernie's view of the world is that the great majority of people agree with him on all the issues and the only reason he does not win is that the Congress is crooked"

From March: Barney Frank Is Not Impressed By Bernie Sanders
(includes the quotes that Sanders has subsequently cited as evidence of bias in his call for Frank to be removed from the DNC)

Isaac Chotiner: What do you make of Bernie Sanders’ success thus far, even if he is likely to come up short in terms of delegates?

Barney Frank: Remember he’s way behind not just in delegates but in votes.

Yeah I know, but still—

It’s ironic that we complain about voter suppression and shortened voting times and then we have so many caucuses. The caucuses are the least democratic political operation in America. They cater to the people who have a lot of time on their hands, and what’s interesting is Sanders is the nominee of the caucuses and Hillary is the nominee of the primaries.

I am disappointed by the voters who say, “OK I’m just going to show you how angry I am!” And I’m particularly unimpressed with people who sat out the Congressional elections of 2010 and 2014 and then are angry at Democrats because we haven’t been able to produce public policies they like. They contributed to the public policy problems and now they are blaming other people for their own failure to vote, and then it’s like, “Oh look at this terrible system,” but it was their voting behavior that brought it about.

So it seems like you’re saying Bernie’s voters have a slightly unrealistic sense about the political process. And that this is driven—

I didn’t say slightly.

OK.

Bernie Sanders has been in Congress for 25 years with little to show for it in terms of his accomplishments and that’s because of the role he stakes out. It is harder to get things done in the American political system than a lot of people realize, and what happens is they blame the people in office for the system. And that’s the same with the Tea Party. It’s “I voted for these Republicans, we have a Republican Congress, we voted for them, they took over Congress, they didn’t accomplish anything.” You gotta win at least two elections in a row.

...

Do you think she should release her Wall Street speeches?

Yeah, but I don’t think anybody is really against her because she won’t. By the way, I think Sanders has been outrageously McCarthyite on that.

McCarthyite?

Yes, I saw one commercial that said the big companies weren’t punished. Why? Well, maybe it’s because Hillary is getting speaking fees. So the secretary of state should have been indicting people? I mean, yes, McCarthyite in the sense that it’s guilt by association. He complains about what she did with regards to all this money stuff. Where’s the beef of that?

OK—

What Sanders basically says is, “They’re trying to bribe you.” Well what do they get for money? He shows nothing.

There have been a couple of cases of Republican senators trying to weaken the Dodd-Frank Act. Elizabeth Warren has been a much more successful defender of that bill than Sen. Sanders has been.

There was this complaint, “Oh she had contributions from Wall Street.” So did Barack Obama. So does almost every Democrat because you can’t unilaterally disarm.

From July: Why Progressives Shouldn't Support Bernie

The attack on Clinton in the fall campaign will be more on her personally than on her views. Whoever the GOP nominee ends up being, he will publicly de-emphasize his commitments to undoing financial reform, appointing Supreme Court justices who will reverse the same-sex marriage decision, and totally repealing the Affordable Care Act. Instead, the Republicans will try to impugn Clinton’s integrity by regurgitating the old accusations from the ’90s, supplemented by distorting the facts about Benghazi and greatly exaggerating the horror of her email trail. They will not be deterred by the inconvenient fact that Kenneth Starr grudgingly told the Judiciary Committee in 1998 that after spending several million dollars for three years, he was unable to point to anything she — or President Bill Clinton — had done wrong involving Whitewater, the FBI files or the Travel Office, nor by their inability after what will have been by then at least five congressional investigations to specify how she should be blamed for the murder of American officials by terrorists in Libya.

Her ability to point to the total absence of any evidence to validate these charges will help blunt their impact, and she in turn will stress her commitment to the reforms that respond to the public’s dissatisfaction with the economic status quo. Given the appeal of her specific policy proposals, the Republicans will use the Sanders candidacy to make a two-pronged attack on her call for fairer taxation, tougher rules governing the financial industry, re-establishment of the right of working people to join unions, raising the minimum wage, incentivizing profit sharing, and increasing the availability of health care and higher education.

 

[FyreWulff]

He's dishing on Barney Frank? Fuck off, Bernie.

 

[Kunan]

He's fantastic because he has an I next to his name and doesn't blindly follow people around in the name of party politics.

Sometimes he agrees with Dems and sometimes he agrees with Repubs becuase he has the ability to think independently about the issues and see things from all perspectives.

Someone who's beholden to their corporate campaign donors and party allies loses their ability to effectively think independently.

AFAIK Sanders is actually regarded as the least likely to work with both parties of all the current senators, even a decent percentage below Ted Cruz. He is definitely independent as you say, and forges his own path, but he really does not seem to be agreeing with republicans.

http://www.thelugarcenter.org/asset...ssion 2015 Bipartisan Index Senate Scores.pdf

 

[Imperfected]

Can we just vote for Barney Frank instead?

 

[Officerrob]

This process has REALLY soured me on Bernie. He can seemingly do no wrong, and cries establishment and fraud at anybody or anything that doesn't go his way. With that said, I wouldn't just vote for him, I'd volunteer to help his campaign to defeat Trump (like I will be with Hillary)

 

[jack_package_200]

Can we just vote for Barney Frank instead?

Eh, while I would be down with first gay president, a lot of people in this country still harbor negative feelings for the LBGTQ crowd

 

[BotoxAgent]

Barneys criticism of Bernie is so in fucking point. I know Barney wouldn't run but it would be so hilarious if he just ran in the primaries just so he can spit hot fire in Bernies face in a couple of debates lol

 

[Ether_Snake]

People on GAF are making a much bigger deal about Barney being gay than it would really matter. Clinton would win with him as VP. Really think it would be the best pick out there.

 

[Suikoguy]

People on GAF are making a much bigger deal about Barney being gay than it would really matter. Clinton would win with him as VP. Really think it would be the best pick out there.

Biggest issue would probably be his age, he is 76.

 

[Crocodile]

People on GAF are making a much bigger deal about Barney being gay than it would really matter. Clinton would win with him as VP. Really think it would be the best pick out there.

I've seen you post several times you think Warren would be a terrible VP pick essentially because essentially America is too sexist. You think America is more sexist than it is homophobic? I'm not trying to shit on you to be clear, I'm just curious as to if that's your opinion.

 

[B-Dubs]

People on GAF are making a much bigger deal about Barney being gay than it would really matter. Clinton would win with him as VP. Really think it would be the best pick out there.

The fire Barney Frank spits is way too hot for this country. They can barely handle No Fucks Given Obama, you think they could handle Barney Frank?

 

[eBay Huckster]

Okay, quick vote: Who here honestly thinks Bernie Sanders is a worse choice for President than Donald Trump?

I say Trump is worse.

this is a very late reply.

trump is worse.

but i can safely say i'd have to hold my nose to vote for sanders at this point, and i can't fucking believe i'm saying this considering i was split on who i wanted to vote for until, literally, the day ohio's polls opened

Spoiler

which also happened to be the day his campaign called alan krueger an establishment stooge

e:

HOT TAKES FROM THE FAR LEFT

the next internally consistent statement glenn greenwald makes will be his first

 

[eBay Huckster]

Barney Frank has not responded.

Well, he did, but it wasn't the image I had here originally because I'm a big fat mess who didn't source-check.

 

[Marvie_3]

Barney Frank has responded.

And by responded I mean rhetorically hacked Sanders to death and then lit his corpse on fire.

Gahdamn

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Barney Frank has responded.

And by responded I mean rhetorically hacked Sanders to death and then lit his corpse on fire.

You keep posting this but you never provided an actual source and it's not on the internet.

 

[royalan]

Barney Frank has responded.

And by responded I mean rhetorically hacked Sanders to death and then lit his corpse on fire.

AND WHERE IS THE GODDAMN LIE!?!?!?

YES BARNEY. YES.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Barney Frank has responded.

And by responded I mean rhetorically hacked Sanders to death and then lit his corpse on fire.

Fucking.

Brutal.

 

[HylianTom]

You keep posting this but you never provided an actual source and it's not on the internet.

Yeah, my initial response was "WOW!", because it sounds and feels like a Barney Frank take.. but I've tried googling various selections of the quotation and can't find it anywhere. Looked on his facebook, his twitter account, etc etc, and I can't find it.

I like the sentiment for the most part, but wouldn't mind if he were more cleverly measured with his response..

 

[RadioJoNES64]

I REALLY want Sanders to attempt a response.

EDIT: it ain't real folks

 

[metalslimer]

Barney Frank has responded.

And by responded I mean rhetorically hacked Sanders to death and then lit his corpse on fire.

Holy shit

 

[eBay Huckster]

You keep posting this but you never provided an actual source and it's not on the internet.

I posted this twice and have now verified that it's apparently not actually real.

 

[Kite]

That "reply" seems to come from a facebook post, not from Barney.

https://www.facebook.com/gbpotus

 

[eBay Huckster]

Kinda relieved that it's not actually him, because he can go harder than that without the "white flighted" comment

 

[DarkKyo]

Barney Frank has responded.

And by responded I mean rhetorically hacked Sanders to death and then lit his corpse on fire.

When did diverse become the same thing as progressive? While it's indeed progressive to be inclusive, it doesn't mean you're automatically progressive on the issues...

 

[eBay Huckster]

you're a lot more likely to be progressive on the issues, namely in an intersectional way, if you aren't relying on one demographic group for all of your support

(but it matters not because everybody, including me, just got tricked by a fake quote)

 

[kirblar]

When did diverse become the same thing as progressive? While it's indeed progressive to be inclusive, it doesn't mean you're automatically progressive on the issues...

Because when you're a straight white male you don't see many of the direct benefits made on the gender/race/sexuality axes. To you, it looks like "nothing" is happening- and it's not an accident that they're looking at economics as the only axis that matters.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Damn, knew it was too good to be true.

 

[sangreal]

Frank did respond though, he basically said what a lot of people here have said -- that Bernie is trying to set up his argument that the convention was rigged against him

Bernie also responded to the DNC's rejection saying they will take it to the convention floor

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

It's also an issue to ignore racism like it hasn't stopped the Democrats from pushing economic progress in the past. As early as Social Security we can see black Americans had to be excluded if they wanted it to pass. It's not a coincidence that Trump's platform is mostly racism, not conservative economic principles. His base doesn't really care what economic platform he's pushing so long as he's more open about being racist.

 

[Paskil]

That shit ain't safe for children. Have to sanitize it.

Bernie: We don't want Dannel Malloy or Barnie Frank on the rules committee.
Barnie: I said good day to you, sir.

I still need an ice pack for the blisters.

Edit: too bad if fake.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Barney Frank's real response:

Still, he made clear he isn’t impressed with Mr. Sanders’s record in the House and Senate. “We believe that Sen. Sanders’s approach to how you bring about progressive change is mistaken,” Mr. Frank said. “He’s arguing in part that he will be a more effective change agent and that’s relevant. The fact is that he has not been a very effective change agent in 25 years in Congress, and that seems to be relevant to voters in deciding who to support.”

A larger concern, Mr. Frank added, is that Mr. Sanders, by arguing the convention committees are tilted in Mrs. Clinton’s favor, is unfairly feeding perceptions that he is being robbed of the nomination.

To the extent that his supporters buy that argument, it could be tougher for Democrats to unify the party in advance of the showdown with the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald Trump.

“What troubles me is that he and some of his people are trying to build a story that when he doesn’t get the nomination that he was somehow unfairly deprived of it,” Mr. Frank said. “It’s nonsense. She’s got more pledged delegates, she’s won more contests and she has millions of more votes.”

And the response from the Sanders camp to the DNC's decision not to capitulate to their demands:

Sanders spokesman Michael Briggs said: “This doesn’t settle anything. We will raise the same serious issues when the committees convene” at the convention.

Because they're all petty assholes.

 

[eBay Huckster]

That shit ain't safe for children. Have to sanitize it.

Bernie: We don't want Dannel Malloy or Barnie Frank on the rules committee.
Barnie: I said good day to you, sir.

I still need an ice pack for the blisters.

Edit: too bad if fake.

yeah he actually said this

Frank brushed off the Sanders camp's charges.

"It is inconceivable to me that anything could come before that committee that will affect who the nominee is," Frank said. "I think what you have here is this: Sanders is losing to Hillary Clinton because she is getting many more votes and many more pledged delegates. Some of [the Sanders supporters] are trying to lay the claim that he's being unfairly deprived of this."

Asked what he thought Sanders' endgame goal was, Frank said it might be to suggest he was robbed of the nomination.

"I hope it is not to lay the basis for an inaccurate claim that he was unfairly denied the nomination, and I do see some elements of this," Frank said. "We really had two nomination contests this year. Bernie Sanders is the nominee of the caucuses; Hillary Clinton is the nominee of the primaries, which are more Democratic."

 

[foxuzamaki]

Barney Frank has responded.

And by responded I mean rhetorically hacked Sanders to death and then lit his corpse on fire.

damn

edit: damn D:

 

[sphagnum]

AND WHERE IS THE GODDAMN LIE!?!?!?

Not that it's not a good slam but TBF if the person who wrote that is going to point out that DWS is Jewish, it's unfair to whitewash Bernie and pretend he's Anglo or something by just calling him "white".

 

[Justin]

I couldn't really find anywhere else to put this but for the people who complain there needs to be a viable third party this just happened at the national convention for the third largest political party in American (notice the iron cross and anarchy tattoos).

If you want to see a meltodown in progress go to CSPAN and watch the last two hours of their convention. Everyone was wasted.

 

[akira28]

When did diverse become the same thing as progressive? While it's indeed progressive to be inclusive, it doesn't mean you're automatically progressive on the issues...

Sitting Democrats would be the first to point out the Democrats have a diversity problem.

and other sitting Dems would be the first to ignore the fuck out of them.

I couldn't really find anywhere else to put this but for the people who complain there needs to be a viable third party this just happened at the national convention for the third largest political party in American (notice the iron cross and anarchy tattoos).

Libertarians were never a 3rd party, they were a support pillar of the Republicans
(when they didn't hate their older brother).

 

[MHWilliams]

I couldn't really find anywhere else to put this but for the people who complain there needs to be a viable third party this just happened at the national convention for the third largest political party in American (notice the iron cross and anarchy tattoos).

If you want to see a meltodown in progress go to CSPAN and watch the last two hours of their convention. Everyone was wasted.

When you are free to do anything, you will do anything.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/libertarian-party-ready-prime-time-n582351

During the presidential candidate debate, the room went wild for suggestions of abolishing the Federal Reserve, state-sponsored education, and gun control.

"I believe in a world where gay married couples can defend their marijuana fields with submachine guns, aw yeah baby!" conservative libertarian Austin Petersen said.

"Crystal meth should be as legal as tomatoes," another candidate Daryl Perry declared.

These are the kind of policies that are completely unlikely to go anywhere in Congress, and will alienate as many people as they attract, but at the Libertarian Convention, the suggestions are met with glee.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

I couldn't really find anywhere else to put this but for the people who complain there needs to be a viable third party this just happened at the national convention for the third largest political party in American (notice the iron cross and anarchy tattoos).

If you want to see a meltodown in progress go to CSPAN and watch the last two hours of their convention. Everyone was wasted.

It took me a minute to realize he's not wearing any pants either.

 

[James]

..."I believe in a world where gay married couples can defend their marijuana fields with submachine guns, aw yeah baby!"...

This brings to mind the mental image of heavily armed, flamboyantly gay men fighting on the green fields of justice.