Support NeoGAF

[Heavy_D206]

The campaign's actions come from the top and if he cant control it, he doesn't deserve public office.

Blaming a campaign's toxicity on anything other then the candidate while running for PRESIDENT is an instant get the hell out of politics, you dont deserve running for any office that matters.

This is bordering on downright laughable at this point.

Bernie has been a fantastic senator for a ridiculously long time, yet he should now "get the hell out of politics" lol

Hillary supporters are doing absolutely nothing to bring independents into their camp. The stuff I'm reading reminds me of why I dislike the democratic party almost as much as I dislike the republican party.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is bordering on downright laughable at this point.

Bernie has been a fantastic senator for a ridiculously long time, yet he should now "get the hell out of politics" lol

Hillary supporters are doing absolutely nothing to bring independents into their camp. The stuff I'm reading reminds me of why I dislike the democratic party almost as much as I dislike the republican party.

Well that was a bizarre reading of that post.

I mean unless you think Sanders actually doesn't have any control over his campaign.

 

[Mael]

That is verbatim a Bernie or Bust line with one thing changed.

You misunderstand my point, I don't have strong feelings toward this or that candidate.
I just hate candidates that try to pass off as pure when they shit on every single objective ally they have in order to prop themselves up.
We have a guy like that in France and he's been selling bridges to former communists for the last 20 years.
He's like Sanders, a hack.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

This is bordering on downright laughable at this point.

Bernie has been a fantastic senator for a ridiculously long time, yet he should now "get the hell out of politics" lol

Hillary supporters are doing absolutely nothing to bring independents into their camp. The stuff I'm reading reminds me of why I dislike the democratic party almost as much as I dislike the republican party.

Bernie Sanders has been a reliable leftist vote, but "fantastic" would require some important legislation to have come from him, IMO. I don't believe he has that.

But yeah, he should stay in politics, but in Congress. Presidential politics seem to have gotten him more than a tad backward.

 

[Mike M]

Bernie has been a fantastic senator for a ridiculously long time

He's only in his second term as a senator.

 

[Mr. RPG]

Obviously false. So obviously false that I am willing to give you TWO hours to prove this or recant it or face utter embarrassment!

Do you really want me to source every single person on this forum who has said that? I will if you want me to.

I wish I was wrong. I want to be wrong.

It's still possible to be a shitty person without being as bad as Trump, and at this point Bernie fits the bill.

Have you forgotten what Trump has said these past few months? Have you forgotten what has happened at his rallies?

I can't take you seriously when you say these things.

The campaign's actions come from the top and if he cant control it, he doesn't deserve public office.

Blaming a campaign's toxicity on anything other then the candidate while running for PRESIDENT is an instant get the hell out of politics.

If Bernie decided absolutely everything that goes on in his campaign himself there wouldn't be any need for a campaign manager.

Of course Bernie is at fault to some degree and he should be criticized for it just like any other presidential candidate should.

If anyone here actually thinks Bernie Sanders is worse than Donald Trump, they're in the extreme minority.

Unfortunately I don't think that is true anymore. Hillary supporters are becoming increasingly frustrated and upset with Bernie and his campaign.

 

[Armaros]

Do you really want me to source every single person on this forum who has said that? I will if you want me to.

I wish I was wrong. I want to be wrong.



Have you forgotten what Trump has said these past few months? Have you forgotten what has happened at his rallies?

I can't take you seriously when you say these things.



If Bernie decided absolutely everything that goes on in his campaign himself there wouldn't be any need for a campaign manager.

Of course Bernie is at fault to some degree and he should be criticized for it just like any other presidential candidate should.



Unfortunately I don't think that is true anymore. Hillary supporters are becoming increasingly frustrated and upset with Bernie and his campaign.

Campaign managers answer to the candidate.

Weaseling your way out of it by shifting blame wont work.

Its on Bernie. PERIOD.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Unfortunately I don't think that is true anymore. Hillary supporters are becoming increasingly frustrated and upset with Bernie and his campaign.

Okay, quick vote: Who here honestly thinks Bernie Sanders is a worse choice for President than Donald Trump?

I say Trump is worse.

 

[Intheflorsh]

You misunderstand my point, I don't have strong feelings toward this or that candidate.
I just hate candidates that try to pass off as pure when they shit on every single objective ally they have in order to prop themselves up.
We have a guy like that in France and he's been selling bridges to former communists for the last 20 years.
He's like Sanders, a hack.

Well, to me being a racist, fascist, sexist, violence promoting bigot is a bigger sin than being a hack but OK.

 

[Heavy_D206]

Bernie Sanders has been a reliable leftist vote, but "fantastic" would require some important legislation to have come from him, IMO. I don't believe he has that.

But yeah, he should stay in politics, but in Congress. Presidential politics seem to have gotten him more than a tad backward.

He's fantastic because he has an I next to his name and doesn't blindly follow people around in the name of party politics.

Sometimes he agrees with Dems and sometimes he agrees with Repubs becuase he has the ability to think independently about the issues and see things from all perspectives.

Someone who's beholden to their corporate campaign donors and party allies loses their ability to effectively think independently.

 

[echoshifting]

Do you really want me to source every single person on this forum who has said that? I will if you want me to.

I wish I was wrong. I want to be wrong.

Tick tock

 

[HylianTom]

Do you really want me to source every single person on this forum who has said that? I will if you want me to.

I wish I was wrong. I want to be wrong.



Have you forgotten what Trump has said these past few months? Have you forgotten what has happened at his rallies?

I can't take you seriously when you say these things.



If Bernie decided absolutely everything that goes on in his campaign himself there wouldn't be any need for a campaign manager.

Of course Bernie is at fault to some degree and he should be criticized for it just like any other presidential candidate should.



Unfortunately I don't think that is true anymore. Hillary supporters are becoming increasingly frustrated and upset with Bernie and his campaign.

I really would like to see your sources on where Hillary folks here "overwhelmingly" (your word) think that Bernie is "worse than Trump" (again, your words).

If you're going to make a generalization like that with such strong language, let's see you back it up.

 

[Y2Kev]

Do you really want me to source every single person on this forum who has said that? I will if you want me to.

I wish I was wrong. I want to be wrong.



Have you forgotten what Trump has said these past few months? Have you forgotten what has happened at his rallies?

I can't take you seriously when you say these things.



If Bernie decided absolutely everything that goes on in his campaign himself there wouldn't be any need for a campaign manager.

Of course Bernie is at fault to some degree and he should be criticized for it just like any other presidential candidate should.



Unfortunately I don't think that is true anymore. Hillary supporters are becoming increasingly frustrated and upset with Bernie and his campaign.

Time is ticking for you to prove that HillaryGaf overwhelmingly prefers Trump to Bernie! Tick tock tick tock!

 

[Intheflorsh]

"Overwhelmingly" is obviously wrong but, come on, there's literally a guy on this page that fits the criteria.

 

[Suikoguy]

Okay, quick vote: Who here honestly thinks Bernie Sanders is a worse choice for President than Donald Trump?

I say Trump is worse.

Nobody knows what the fuck Trump would do to the Supreme Court.

Still an easy choice.

But i'd take a more conservative candidate like Biden over Sanders now. Would not have said that months ago.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Someone who's beholden to their corporate campaign donors and party allies loses their ability to effectively think independently.

Someone needs to inform every single politician who has accomplished anything of worth in the past century that their accomplishments no longer count, since they were done while being beholden to their filthy party allies.

"Overwhelmingly" is obviously wrong but, come on, there's literally a guy on this page that fits the criteria.

But if he's using one guy to bolster his argument that HillaryGAF (I hate these nicknames for both sides, btw) has decided to become pro-Trump if Sanders were the nominee, he's slinging shit and needs to be called on it, IMO.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I really would like to see your sources on where Hillary folks here "overwhelmingly" (your word) think that Bernie is "worse than Trump" (again, your words).

If you're going to make a generalization like that with such strong language, let's see you back it up.

Agreed.

 

[BigJonsson]

I'm Trudeau or bust!

 

[Drek]

Bite your tongue. We have SCOTUS to worry about.

A SCOTUS serves for one lifetime, Sanders' poison might be the final nail in the coffin for rational democracy for the foreseeable future.

The GOP pandered to their radical fringe and what did that get them? More demands, more pandering, and ultimately a table set for Donald Trump. This is how extremists actually take over parties, not with single big elections. They appear significant enough for a party to sell to focus on pandering to them. This enables them and indulges their already inflated sense of self-worth. Before long it's No True Scotsman testing every election cycle. Sanders is running his campaign on the exact same tactics and rhetoric as the Tea Party in 2010. The Dems have, to this point, been sensible enough to not capitulate too much. If crossing that line is the only thing that would appease Sanders and his devotees I'd rather not and just see what happens in November.

Give in to Sanders and maybe we get 4-8 years of Clinton but by 2024 we'll have an anti-science nut equal to Jill Stein as the Dem candidate and a new Trump on the GOP side. That is where this is headed. Then we're really looking at giant douche v. turd sandwich.

Even then, the need for Sanders' supporters is being grossly overstated. Unless he actually runs third party, which is something he'll do either way based on his own already existing agenda, Clinton can win without the Sanders cult. I'd rather she did so there would be ample motivation to run a Dem against him in 2018.

So the narrative went to "Vote Clinton to stop Trump!' to just "Vote Clinton because Bernie is worse than Trump." The fact is "Bernie and his cult" are for wealth equality, not treating Palestinians like second class citizens, not inciting wars and violence on a foreign level etc.

I can't believe Bernie's mild left wing policies that are already in place in Europe and Canada are called the "left wing tea party".

Sanders is for Sanders. If you can't see that by now that's your problem. He's been purity testing Clinton all primary because she wants universal healthcare but isn't slavishly devoted to it coming in the form of single payer only. He's been hitting her on minimum wage when her stance has been $12/Hr. nationally with high cost states/municipalities setting their own number. I could go on. he's purity testing someone who is ideologically almost entirely aligned with him. This isn't an attempt to move Clinton to the left, this is an attempt to force HIS ideology at the expense of any and all alternatives. Being in 99% agreement with Sanders just means you're the closest enemy. He has no allies, no friends, only lackeys.

And it isn't Sanders' policies that make him the left wing tea party. It's the dogged devotion to belief in the complete absence of fact, the impenetrable bubble he lives within, and the constant with us or against us viewpoint he and his take towards everyone who isn't in lockstep with their propaganda. It is, quite frankly, disgusting. It is also how cults act. Just go look at Scientology for one great example. Blind, unquestioning devotion to a belief system despite an absence of or in complete disagreement with facts.

Okay, quick vote: Who here honestly thinks Bernie Sanders is a worse choice for President than Donald Trump?

I say Trump is worse.

Of course Trump is worse. He's basically the 21st century Mussolini. But the United States has enough provisions to weather one and possibly even two terms of someone like him. Sanders' agenda is something else entirely.

That is the problem here. Sanders wants to destroy the one party behaving in a rational and pragmatic fashion to move the ball forward because it doesn't move in exactly the speed and direction he wants. Trump has driven the final stake in the already rotten heart of the GOP.

We can't afford to lose the last bastion of effective governance for one election just because Sanders and co. are willing to hold it hostage. The referendum on Trump is in November. The referendum on if the Democratic Party will follow the Republicans into the church of blind ideology is being held right now. We can't afford to lose either one so win the one going on now and deal with the other when the time comes, regardless of what the fallout from the first might produce.

 

[Volimar]

That one guy said that in some ways Bernie is worse...

That equals loads of people, right?

I'm Trudeau or bust!

I feel like a Canadian would say Trudeau or Burst.

 

[Mael]

Well, to me being a racist, fascist, sexist, violence promoting bigot is a bigger sin than being a hack but OK.

I would take 4 years having to deal with a racist lunatic than 20 to 30 years of puritanical BS from the Left.
I would know I had to deal with that for the last 20 years already considering that other asshole keep to his BS like a roach.

He's fantastic because he has an I next to his name doesn't blindly follow people around in the name of party politics.

Sometimes he agrees with Dems and sometimes he agrees with Repubs becuase he has the ability to think independently about the issues and see things from all perspectives.

Someone who's beholden to their corporate campaign donors and party allies loses their ability effectively think independently.

That's utter BS, you have D and R helping the other side plenty of times without having an I next to their name.
Shitty purity testing idiots may hate them and call them DINO or RINO but they exist and vote for what they think is best.
And looking at this campaign he has failed multiple times at looking at situations from other perspectives than his own (and we even have actual proofs that he never gives a shit about views other than his own)

 

[Y2Kev]

"Overwhelmingly" is obviously wrong but, come on, there's literally a guy on this page that fits the criteria.

I agree, obviously wrong. So I gave him TWO! hours to recant because I am gracious like presumptive democratic nominee HRH Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton.

 

[metalslimer]

Guys Bernie is a douche but no trump would not be better. You are wildly underestimating the damage he could do in 4 years and I'd take a liberal tea party over minorities suffering and all our relationships going to hell

 

[BotoxAgent]

Bernie is not worse than Trump, but the fact that Bernie tries to claim that he comes from a pure incorruptible point of view just makes his recent actions all the more disappointing.

Hillary is clearly looking more like the adult in the room each day that passes.

 

[Heavy_D206]

Someone needs to inform every single politician who has accomplished anything of worth in the past century that their accomplishments no longer count, since they were done while being beholden to their filthy party allies.

What's surprising is that back in the day the parties actually worked together quite a bit instead of all the vitriol we currently have now.

I was talking to a former state house majority leader recently and he said the amount of hatred and pure anger the parties have toward each other is shocking compared to the earlier part of the past century.

 

[Suikoguy]

Guys Bernie is a douche but no trump would not be better. You are wildly underestimating the damage he could do in 4 years and I'd take a liberal tea party over minorities suffering and all our relationships going to hell

Not sure who you are arguing with... lol.

My current preference is:

Hillary > Biden > Sanders > Romney > Guy I Met Once in College > Trump

 

[Y2Kev]

Probably just Drek, who is being a bit cray.

 

[Suikoguy]

Probably just Drek, who is being a bit cray.

To be fair, his concerns are worthy enough to be debated. But the evidence of things going that way is not exactly conclusive.

Purity tests are a huge problem in a 2 party system.

 

[Mael]

Guys Bernie is a douche but no trump would not be better. You are wildly underestimating the damage he could do in 4 years and I'd take a liberal tea party over minorities suffering and all our relationships going to hell

Minorities will be thrown to the wolves at the earliest convenience when liberal tea party gets its way anyway (Sanders stans showed that extensively this cycle), it's only a matter of when.
Sanders is as isolationist as Trump anyway and Sanders is an even shittier negotiator either way relationships are going to hell.

 

[HylianTom]

Yeah, I can't abide by that. If we lose this shot at SCOTUS - a shot that doesn't come very often, I'd add - then it's game over for progressivism for quite a while.

Even if a liberal tea partier came to power, we'd at least survive to fight for the shape of the party going forward without entirely throwing away the future.

 

[metalslimer]

What's surprising is that back in the day the parties actually worked together quite a bit instead of all the vitriol we currently have now.

I was talking to a former state house majority leader recently and he said the amount of hatred and pure anger the parties have toward each other is shocking compared to the earlier part of the past century.

Well to be honest it's much easier to do when each of your parties consist completely of straight Christian white males which didn't change Mich until recently

 

[pigeon]

I would obviously prefer Bernie to Trump, I mean, come on.

However I will say it's getting to the point where I wouldn't trust Bernie as the presidential candidate.

Like, if Hillary got indicted for Vince Foster's murder, I would rather have her release her delegates and have the DNC nominate Warren or Gillibrand or somebody rather than nominate Bernie Sanders.

So I don't particularly see the question coming up.

 

[TI82]

How is Sanders the "end of rational" Democrats when he is basically a European leftist?

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Probably just Drek, who is being a bit cray.

Drek and Mael. But then there are like seven of us saying the opposite.

Hardly an overwhelming majority in favor of Trump.

 

[Volimar]

Guys Bernie is a douche but no trump would not be better. You are wildly underestimating the damage he could do in 4 years and I'd take a liberal tea party over minorities suffering and all our relationships going to hell

No one in their right mind (I realize this disqualifies a number of people) thinks that Bernie is worse than Trump.

 

[excelsiorlef]

How is Sanders the "end of rational" Democrats when he is basically a European leftist?

Behaviour not ideas is the argument

Anyway obviously Sanders would be better than any GOP, but that doesn't meant he wouldn't likely be a disaster of a president and hurt the future of progressivism.

Thankfully he won't have that chance.

 

[Tarydax]

Have you forgotten what Trump has said these past few months? Have you forgotten what has happened at his rallies?

I can't take you seriously when you say these things.

What exactly does Trump have to do with what Bernie's request to remove Barney Frank? You're deflecting, acting as though that somehow absolves Bernie's actions. No one can take you seriously when all you do is engage in whataboutism.

But while we're on the subject of rallies, remember what happened at Nevada? If you're going to say that Bernie is okay because Trump is terrible, what does that make Hillary - who has had no violent incidents at her rallies or had no supporters engaging in harassment of superdelegates?

Spoiler

According to you it makes her pretty damn awesome.

If Bernie decided absolutely everything that goes on in his campaign himself there wouldn't be any need for a campaign manager.

Of course Bernie is at fault to some degree and he should be criticized for it just like any other presidential candidate should.

Another deflection. At some point, you're going to have to admit that Bernie has some responsibility for all of this. And look, it doesn't matter if Bernie himself made the request to remove Barney Frank or if it came from someone else in his campaign. At the end of the day, he went along with it.

For the sake of argument, let's say that none of these tactics or their resulting controversies were Bernie's original ideas, but that they all came from campaign managers. All that says is that he agrees that these moronic tactics (and often times he doubles down on them or plays the victim) are acceptable. At the very least, that makes him incompetent.

 

[metalslimer]

How is Sanders the "end of rational" Democrats when he is basically a European leftist?

It's not his ideas that concern me the most although I do think he is too simplistic and naive. It's his temperament and inability to accept that maybe he is wrong.

 

[Loudninja]

"Overwhelmingly" is obviously wrong but, come on, there's literally a guy on this page that fits the criteria.

Yes that one person.

 

[TI82]

Behaviour not ideas i the argument

I don't see how his "behaviour" has been any worse than the other candidates

 

[Suikoguy]

How is Sanders the "end of rational" Democrats when he is basically a European leftist?

You are unable to differentiate between policy and the person?

(Excluding anti-trade and some other fringe views).

 

[Mael]

How is Sanders the "end of rational" Democrats when he is basically a European leftist?

Try to follow European politics before throwing shit like that.

Drek and Mael. But then there are like seven of us saying the opposite.

Hardly an overwhelming majority in favor of Trump.

I'll stand with Drek if I have to.
I think Sanders is a worse candidate than Trump but he'd probably end up as a slightly better president.
For their respective parties, Sanders is a Trump level disaster waiting to happen and will do much more damage.
Seriously the GOP already recovered from Trump and it's business as usual.
Both would be a disaster for the country for different reasons.

 

[Intheflorsh]

I would take 4 years having to deal with a racist lunatic than 20 to 30 years of puritanical BS from the Left.
I would know I had to deal with that for the last 20 years already considering that other asshole keep to his BS like a roach.

Ultimately I care more about what policy is getting passed than what I suspect the attitudes of the people passing it are. Trump would undoubtedly do more harm to the world, and that is enough for me to want him out of office. (Incidentally, this is why I will end up voting for Hillary.)

Yes that one person.

Be fair, two people. And demonstrably not an extremely rare thing, at least in this thread.

 

[pigeon]

I don't see how his "behaviour" has been any worse than the other candidates

That's because you are a graphing calculator

 

[whyamihere]

HOT TAKES FROM THE FAR LEFT

https://twitter.com/billmon1/status/736676792237428741

@billmon1
Barney Frank is a saint and anybody who says differently is a raging homophobe.
Ain't identity politics fun?

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/736725307374309376

@ggreenwald Glenn Greenwald Retweeted Billmon
I can't wait for Clinton die-hards to start applying this new "you-can't-criticize-anyone-gay" standard.

WHAT WONDERFUL STRAWMEN YOU'VE BOTH BUILT!

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't see how his "behaviour" has been any worse than the other candidates

Most candidates don't respond to death threats to someone with a press release falsely accusing her of corruption, voter suppression and of stealing the election from him

And that's just Nevada.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Have you forgotten what Trump has said these past few months? Have you forgotten what has happened at his rallies?

I can't take you seriously when you say these things.

Do you not understand that there are varying degrees of good and bad? Are you saying a good person would do what Bernie has done lately?

No shit, Trump is a very bad person. That doesn't mean that Bernie can do shitty things and still qualify as a good person. Like I said, Bernie isn't as bad as Trump, but he's still being an asshole.

 

[B-Dubs]

HOT TAKES FROM THE FAR LEFT

https://twitter.com/billmon1/status/736676792237428741



https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/736725307374309376



WHAT WONDERFUL STRAWMEN YOU'VE BOTH BUILT!

What a couple of morons.

 

[Risette]

HOT TAKES FROM THE FAR LEFT

https://twitter.com/billmon1/status/736676792237428741



https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/736725307374309376



WHAT WONDERFUL STRAWMEN YOU'VE BOTH BUILT!

People unironically using "identity politics" as a pejorative is a huge red flag

 

[Jenov]

Okay, quick vote: Who here honestly thinks Bernie Sanders is a worse choice for President than Donald Trump?

I say Trump is worse.

Hah, what. Bernie is leagues better than Trump, even with all of his recent antics. I think I've seen maybe 1 person in all of GAF ever say they would choose Trump over Bernie, and I'm not even sure on that.