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[CrossTrigger]

Doesn't seem like he stated this already? The 6 terraflops are there so they can be competitive when VR takes off. Outside of that the other main focus was bringing 4K to the mainstream and the play anywhere features. I think people are expecting this to be a new gen when it's just a optimized xbox one.

 

[Sum-Mischief]

Damage control on early announcements on two new consoles? One that won't be released until who knows when? A system that will hold a premium price? Parhas he has know idea what's going on in R&D and just know what the Scorpio engineers design stats?

Seem to me that once again the Xbox message is lost or at best confusing.

 

[Dictator93]

So either Scorpio does something really silly (only displays xb1 games @ 4K on 4K sets), or MS is straight faced lying to sell their shrink console.

Neither of these things are good.

 

[TatteredHat]

So it doesn't actually run games at 4k? I mean I'm not surprised it doesn't, but it sounds like a pointless purchase then.

If it did run at 4k it's unlikely that it would be able to reach even a stable 30 fps at this point, making the gameplay experience terrible as well.

 

[John Caboose]

I have absolutely no interest in 4k. I game on 22" monitors so 1920x1080 offer all the pixels I need. Please use those teraflops for something actually interesting as opposed to just "look there's more pixels". Quality over quantity etc.

 

[Giriath_89]

Of course Microsoft will say anything to not dissuade people from purchasing the XB1 and Slim. That will change when they want people to buy the Scorpio.

Sony is actually in quite an advantageous position, releasing their high-end console earlier. One reason I think that is because they will probably be first to reach that install base quota where it becomes profitable to release exclusives on the new console.

So for a while at least, the Neo may have better looking games than the Scorpio, despite being the weaker console.

 

[Nirolak]

Spencers already said that devs can do want they want with the 6tf of power. Theres no way they mandate 4k. I think it's just the classic mixed messaging from MS.

This would be about the worst marketing idea I've ever seen in this case.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Resolution is king when everyone owns TV's that support the resolution you are trying to promote.

Exactly, 1080p in late 2013 was THE standard for TV in households

2160p in late 2017 won't be the standard for TV in households

 

[Giriath_89]

So either Scorpio does something really silly (only displays xb1 games @ 4K on 4K sets), or MS is straight faced lying to sell their shrink console.

Neither of these things are good.

No, but only one seems profitable.

 

[Afro]

So Xbox people who want to play BF1 will have two choices:

720p/60fps w/ drops and muddy textures on Xbone 1.0

vs

4k/30fps slow-mo on Scorpio

lol I don't believe you.

 

[Alienous]

The trap of believing that it'll only be Xbox One games output in 4K.

They don't have the technology to do much more than that.

What a strange direction for Microsoft. Sony must be chuffed - anything that pushes the 4K market is good for them and other TV manufacturers.

 

[Onemic]

Scorpio is gonna be fucking expensive, is what he's saying.
599 here we go

if its actually gonna do native 4k at 30fps it'll cost a lot more than 599

 

[StudioTan]

A 1080p output downsampled from 4K will look better than XB1 output. It might not be how you would choose to spend those resources if you were targeting 1080p with that power as a baseline, however - it wouldn't give you the same results, the same per pixel complexity and 'richness' as leveraging that power at a 1080p target. But it'll give a cleaner image.

Yeah, I agree that downsampling is going to automatically make everything look better and I've even argued in the past that image quality is one of the most important things in terms of nice looking graphics but it still doesn't make sense that they'd release such a powerful machine and only use the power for 4k or downsampling.

There is already a huge gap between PC games at max settings and their console counterparts, I think everyone want to see graphical improvements in addition to better IQ.

Even as someone who has a 4K monitor and is getting a 4K TV in the next couple of days I realize that my demographic is still very very small.

 

[Zedox]

since 2013 people have been ranting that resolution is king, especially here.

he either said what he thinks people want to hear "look super high rez"

or he miss spoke and was just saying that you wont get the 4k benefit on a 1080p screen not that there wont be other enhancements (what i think is most likely)

or its just to shift some focus to the X1s for the year (most likely)

I think he intended to say it. There has to be a "reason" to keep selling Xbox One S and there has to be a differentiator to get Scorpio. The easiest thing to tell people is if you don't have a 4K tv, you won't reap the true benefits of the system. It makes sense. It's really not hard to "decipher".

I'll probably get the Scorpio anyways for more "future-proofing" my home but I'm probably still going to wait on getting a 4K tv. It all depends on price and where I'm at in life. The best thing to me is that as a XBO owner I don't miss any games while I'm waiting to upgrade. I can still get those games and it doesn't "feel" like a wasted purchase than if they were going to the "next-gen" and I would feel like I would have to purchase to get those exclusive games. I'm glad that I have a choice on upgrading.

 

[Aceofspades]

You might understand their purposes, but I'd argue if you think that makes sense, you probably need to educate yourself more on the consumer market.

I also considered that Sony/MS both realize that the process of making video games require years of work . It means that we don't want to piss developers around the world by forcing them to develop four different editions of the same game.

Increasing the framerates/resolution is easier on the devs than creating a whole new assets and incurring huge extra costs just to make few enthusiasts happy.

 

[SensibleSucker]

The thing for me is that, one of the frustrations of this gen was cross-gen software. Games developed for both generations meant that they were not being pushed as far as possible using the power of the new tech.

I'm confused a bit about how this "monster" of a machine can be fully utilised without, by definition, leaving original Xbone owners behind.

There's simply no way a game that maximised the power of the Scorpio would ever run on the Xbone, unless they did put all that juice into simply bumping the res to 4k.

To me, just doing that would be a total waste of computing muscle.

I'd much rather see 1080p with amazing lighting, effects etc, that the vanilla machine simply wouldn't be able to cope with.

I guess it'll have to go the PC route of shitting off/utilising certain effects depending on which system you're using.

 

[RulkezX]

They should mandate a 4k / 1080p toggle, let us choose between a 1080p version with all the bells and whistles or xbox level visuals in 4k.

 

[RoKKeR]

This would be about the worst marketing idea I've ever seen in this case.

For clarification, you mean mandating 4K?

If so, I completely agree. I was sold on the Scorpio yesterday. Doubling down on 4K seems like a huge fucking mistake.

 

[shandy706]

Reading this makes me think there's a communication error somewhere, or that Phil made a mistake.

He shouldn't make a mistake like that, but it happens.

 

[Lusankya]

So, no improved frame rate at 1080p?

What 1080p?

 

[Yopis]

Cracks me up the anger from people that don't have a 4k set.

 

[Aostia]

when they announced both Slim and Scorpio, I was sure about them making the good move to impress at E3.
but I'm starting to change my mind.
I'm starting to think that it is pretty confusiong to see the "S" not improving how the games run while having slightly better specs; to see Scorpio being such a powerful console but without impact if you are not using a 4K tv, and so on.

Maybe they are trying to clarify better their actual new "hw plan", but it is becoming more confusing for me at each sentence they release as PR

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Yep, their games need a Scorpio mode, or owners of Scorpio will envy that the same Multi-platform game on a weaker PS4 Neo looks sooo much better in Neo-mode. Which apparently does more than "just" delivering higher framerates or resultion.

6 Tf 4K not looking as good as 4.2 at 1080p is the real story here, they've had to be so careful they don't kill S sales with Scorpio, they've overcooked it. What a complete cock-up when they had total control of the hardware talk at E3. Phil must still be drunk from Sunday.

This is a tradegy.

 

[Dictator93]

I think he intended to say it. There has to be a "reason" to keep selling Xbox One S and there has to be a differentiator to get Scorpio. The easiest thing to tell people is if you don't have a 4K tv, you won't reap the true benefits of the system. It makes sense. It's really not hard to "decipher".

If he is speaking plainly, that means the scorpio does something incredibly lame with a questionable value. All that pixel pushing to just render low LOD terrible shadow resolution terrible performing games @ 3840X2160 sounds like a real gimmicky upgrade. One that does not make any sense if you are interested in it purely for graphics even.

I consider myself someone overly obsessed with graphics... just pushing up the native resolution while leaving all the other glaring faults seems like a huge misunderstanding of what people actually mean when they say "better graphics".

No, but only one seems profitable.

True, of course.

 

[pitchfork]

Personally I think dev's will add the ability to tweak settings to your preference for Scorpio games

 

[Recall]

So Xbox One games run at 900p and Scorpio runs at 4K?

 

[zackmorris]

" A premium price over what this one is selling for"

The S is 350 for 1TB. So the Scorpio might be over 500?

I don't see how that will turn things around for MS if true. The PS4 sold well because it was more powerful, but it was also 100 cheaper at launch.

If the NEO can sell for what the current PS4 is selling for and I don't see why it wouldn't as I'd expect a price drop on the current PS4 when NEO launches and if the NEO is able to offer 1080 60 consistently (and based off the specs it should) plus some 4K content (even if that means upscaled) for 350-400 versus the scorpios 500-600 price tag, I think the NEO is the better option at this point.

Again this is all speculation and based off very little information, but based off what people on here prioritize (better frame rates, versus max resolution) then the neos lack of power to run true 4K might actually make it more desirable. If MS truly sacrifices frame rate so they could stamp "true 4K gaming" on their game boxes.

 

[Kinyou]

If that's true I see the scorpio failing big time. How many people even have 4k tvs?

 

[panda-zebra]

I believe in Phil Spencer

Spoiler

's ability to test the robustness of GAF's hosting solution.

 

[jett]

This is some clear and obvious bullshit.

 

[gofreak]

Yeah, I agree that downsampling is going to automatically make everything look better and I've even argued in the past that image quality is one of the most important things in terms of nice looking graphics but it still doesn't make sense that they'd release such a powerful machine and only use the power for 4k or downsampling.

There is already a huge gap between PC games at max settings and their console counterparts, I think everyone want to see graphical improvements in addition to better IQ.

Agreed. A focus on 'rich 1080p' now, richer again and 4K later (next-gen?) would be more relevant.

On the other hand, 'XB1 @ 4K' would be an easier slot-in for developers potentially, and potentially an easier way for them to balance the existing userbase and not piss them off too much.

But they seem intent on a more universal focus on 4K, perhaps knowing that Sony won't or can't carry that as a universal buzzword.

 

[KnightimeX_Legacy]

I wonder how many refunds will be had when the owners of 1080p sets discover they can't use the scorpio.

Such a fucking asinine comment to make, Microsoft.
The 1080p 60fps is a easy fix especially with all the power you have.
R.I.P sales

 

[ps3ud0]

So glad he said this, cant wait for Scorpios launch messaging

ps3ud0 8)

 

[Wishmaster92]

They should mandate a 4k / 1080p toggle, let us choose between a 1080p version with all the bells and whistles or xbox level visuals in 4k.

That's what I thought it was going to be

 

[Alienous]

If they don't mandate 4K developers and publishers aren't going to bother - they'll just push more particles and effects onto the screen at 1080.

If they want 4K they'll have to mandate it, and who is really going to be interested? It benefits Sony, as a TV manufacturer, more than MS.

What are you doing, Microsoft?

 

[EdwardTeach]

As the xbone has struggled to even make 1080 on some titles, the Scorpio will clearly help there so this is just marketing spin. A lot of Scorpio games will be sub 4k.

 

[Bobnob]

#creativechatter i think/hope ms are allover these threads studying what we want from 6tf. Get in! 1080p solid 60 is by far the WINNER!

 

[DjRalford]

Cracks me up the anger from people that don't have a 4k set.

Eh? It's not a 4K cock waving contest.

People are questioning why you'd want to play XBONE games with the same or less fidelity at 4K, most XBONE games can't even do 1080p yet so why rule out the majority that have 1080p sets and go for that 60fps.

 

[Flavius]

I also considered that Sony/MS both realize that the process of making video games require years of work . It means that we don't want to piss developers around the world by forcing them to develop four different editions of the same game.

Increasing the framerates/resolution is easier on the devs than creating a whole new assets and incurring huge extra costs just to make few enthusiasts happy.

I get that, but then...not to turn this into a discussion about phrasing...we're really not looking at consoles in the same old generational sense then, right? This really is just the iPhone model -- iterative updates to technology and software, followed by a relative parity "grace period", old model gets left behind, wash, rinse, repeat.

The difference here is that Apple adopters know and understand this model well. Apple doesn't really have to worry about messaging. But in the console space, there really isn't a precedent. That makes it come off as being really, really slimy and disingenuous.

Better to say nothing at all and let people connect the dots themselves.

 

[gofreak]

If they don't mandate 4K developers and publishers aren't going to bother - they'll just push more particles and effects onto the screen at 1080.

If they want 4K they'll have to mandate it, and who is really going to be interested? It benefits Sony, as a TV manufacturer, more than MS.

What are you doing, Microsoft?

If the horsepower is there, switching to 4K is a much easier job for devs that adding even a minimum of new assets or 'effects'.

 

[KORNdoggy]

If that's true I see the scorpio failing big time. How many people even have 4k tvs?

I've purposely avoided them since the content isn't there and won't be for years. 4k movie support is one thing, but a console built around it at this early stage is stupid. you just gotta hope they let devs decide how to use the power. be it 4k res with little else changing, or improved performance, or better visuals.

 

[Playsage]

This is going to cost at least 600$, isn't it?

 

[jelly]

Can't help but think that this is just the truth bent out of shape as to minimize the damage done to xbone

Halo 6 is going to look nothing spectacular I imagine if they must make 4k... Especially with their 60fps focus that makes halo 5 buttery smooth.

It's not particularly looking better but actually being a better game that couldn't be done on the Xbox One for me. That's more my issue with Scorpio and 4K. 4K Resolution is a waste but they are also wasting power on not implementing new game ideas.

Halo 6 is Fall 2018 most likely. 5 years of Xbox One and Scorpio at 6TF. We are getting a 4K Xbox One Halo 6 and other games. That sucks.

Microsoft should bite the bullet with Xbox One. Full BC on Scorpio, devs can make games for both but push exclusive Scorpio games. I'm really hating this new console direction.

 

[Recall]

Microsoft: The power of unclear messaging.

 

[tapedeck]

They're still trying to sell Xbones people. Of course we'll get higher fidelity 1080p games on Scorpio, it's a dumb comment that'll probably be retracted by tonight lol.

 

[toddhunter]

You can understand how this could happen.

Spencer: Well, that about wraps up E3. Sure we didn't show many games, but everybody is excited about our new hardware the Scorpio so it'll be rough for a while but then everything looks bright!
MS Execs: But what about the Xbox S, shouldn't we be trying to sell that?
Spencer: Isn't that the Scorpio?
MS Execs: No this is a different S
Spencer: But it plays different games to the S right?
MS Execs: No, the S is the same as the other S.
Spencer: BRB, have to downplay some shit.

 

[Alienous]

If the horsepower is there, switching to 4K is a much easier job for devs that adding any new assets or 'effects'.

It is, but given that the Xbox One is underperforming with PS4 and PC games it has a lot of headway before going to 4K.

 

[Guevara]

I get that they want to sell some Xboxes over the next 18 months, but this seems like such an unnecessary error.

How are you not prepared to answer such an obvious question? Even "we're focused on the Xbox One/S for now, more to come!" would have been better.

 

[JamesAR15]

MS really needs to get their message straight. A 6TF console that will only be beneficial over a 1.31TF device if you have a 4k TV is just weird.

 

[Aggie CMD]

The message is simple:

Xbox One S is the affordable choice for 1080p gaming.

Project Scorpio is the premium choice (read: expensive) for 4K gaming early adopters.

At the end of the day you are playing the same games on the same network on the same OS. Project Scorpio is for pixel counting enthusiasts.