hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
That's a couple of frames. Wouldn't bother everyone but it's definitely perceptible.
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HDR 4k TV sets with lowest input lag?
- Thread starter Croatoan
- Start date
Night Hunter
Banned
Seeing as we are talking about Consumer Electronics, taking this mindset to its logical conclusion is to not buy anything ever.
Any tv that can do Dolby Vision can have the ability to do HDR 10. Getting a tv that has DV is safest bet.
DV is one of 4 standards being pushed right now. Hdr 10 open standard, 10 bit color. DV studios industry professionals, not satisfied with 10 bit color, wanted more.
It's confusing and waiting year, will make things easier. If not waiting,grab set with both or atleast DV with 12 bit color capability.
Like the P series it can always have a patch, to enable hdr 10 since panel can support. HDR 10 only set can't add DV if it wins.
Also Sony Warner and others partner with dolby to support DV. You get as close to what industry professionals intend. Not pushing one or the other just giving info.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Id wait a year to let the dust settle and then get the 2nd wave of hdr tvs. So much confusion now and dont want to be the early adopter like those 4K 30hz people.
HDR looks awesome, but it's new and needs shit ironed out. Damn format wars
HDR looks awesome, but it's new and needs shit ironed out. Damn format wars
LowEndTorque
Member
Not necessarily.
For a product like smartphones perhaps, but not really for displays.
When a new display product is still in its infancy/early stages it is expensive and not as good as it could be. But it eventually reaches a point where it's mass produced consistently at a very high quality and good price and any improvements are marginal/not noteworthy.
I bought my Panny 1080p plasma set during that "stage" of 1080p as a consumer product and it has held its own (quality and price wise) against the best 1080 sets available now for several years.
Night Hunter
Banned
Nope, it's the Samsung UExxKS7000. As long as it has 70xx it's the same TV. The other two digits could be different according to country, or a 5 at the end could indicate a different colour, etc.
Samsung model codes are confusing, especially this year as 8000 series is 7000 series in EU, 9000 is 8000 in EU and 9500 is 9000 in EU.
Agreed, no need to rush out and get these monitors/TVs.
Next year's UHDTVs are pretty well set. the standards are agreed upon, 8k is still 4-5 years away, and we've seen the main technologies now. OLED will get cheaper but LG's patents will stop it from dropping too much. Sony's LED tech has promise but the price won't come down for another 3 years most likely.
From now on we'll see cheaper prices, improved brightness, and lower input lag but if you're holding on that you'll always want to see what is right around the corner.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I think they change the numbers yet again for some mainland Europe countries VS UK model numbers lol.
It appears that KS8090 is the UK KS8000, which is the US KS9000.
LOL. Why Samsung felt the need to do this is beyond me.
Anyway, the Europe KS8000 is pretty much the same picture quality as the KS7000. The major differences are it having a Dual TV Tuner and better build quality overall. It also has a slightly better local dimming feature but by all accounts doesn't make much difference VS the 'low end' set.
It appears that KS8090 is the UK KS8000, which is the US KS9000.
LOL. Why Samsung felt the need to do this is beyond me.
Anyway, the Europe KS8000 is pretty much the same picture quality as the KS7000. The major differences are it having a Dual TV Tuner and better build quality overall. It also has a slightly better local dimming feature but by all accounts doesn't make much difference VS the 'low end' set.
what are you basing the numbers on? It has 50ms input lag in 4K game mode according to tests done by rtings.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
RTings has it listed for 22.6 when using HDR playback for what that's worth
that rating is under 1080p because thats what Leo Bodnar test can measure, it cant measure 4K.... in comments they said they tried another method for 4K and it added extra 30ms to that test.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
30 in some tests on one set, 10 on another. The tests aren't as accurate as the Leo Bodner and experience seems to vary by set.
This is also what I have heard. Dang shame cause I wanted a tv that would be 4K ready for Scorpio but that I could also get now for my HDR Xbox one S lol
I don't want to buy a tv this year and then have to buy another when the technology catches up for 4K, HDR, <20 ms lag
I'm looking at picking this TV up. I only have around £600 to spend.
http://www.lg.com/uk/tvs/lg-49UH620V
What do people think?
http://www.lg.com/uk/tvs/lg-49UH620V
What do people think?
Hell yes by far. Had a Samsung with about 50ms input lag and I sometimes struggled to hit the targets especially in MP games. Now I have a 20ms Samsung TV and it's much better. Maybe if you only play SP games it might not be that bad but it's still annoying IMO.
When I switch to my monitor with 10ms I can even feel the difference to my 20ms TV. To be fair I play MP games very competitively which makes me very sensitive in that area.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Even worse, there apparently is a third HDR format called HLG that may be used for broadcast TV. This may or may not be compatible with current monitors.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1473338993
palpabl_purpura
Member
For example, LG used a HLG broadcast signal to demonstrate HDR video on one of its existing E6 OLED TVs (2016 line-up). The company says that its OLED TVs are compatible with the full range of HDR technologies. However, the E6 OLED model at IFA was a customized model and LG would not promise a firmware update to add HLG support to the 2016 TV line-up
Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1473338993#fXXkKjFTXW2mbFZq.99
Similarly, Samsung used IFA to demonstrate HLG-based HDR on one a modified version of its current KS9000 TV. It appeared to be the same satellite TV feed from SES Astra that LG was using. Samsung would not commit to update its 2016 TVs with HLG either at least not yet.
Sony launched a new projector, VPL-VW550ES, at IFA and promised to add HLG support via a firmware update later his year.
Panasonic and Philips also demonstrated HLG-based HDR on TVs with custom firmware. None of them would commit to update current models.
Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1473338993#fXXkKjFTXW2mbFZq.99
Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1473338993#fXXkKjFTXW2mbFZq.99
Similarly, Samsung used IFA to demonstrate HLG-based HDR on one a modified version of its current KS9000 TV. It appeared to be the same satellite TV feed from SES Astra that LG was using. Samsung would not commit to update its 2016 TVs with HLG either at least not yet.
Sony launched a new projector, VPL-VW550ES, at IFA and promised to add HLG support via a firmware update later his year.
Panasonic and Philips also demonstrated HLG-based HDR on TVs with custom firmware. None of them would commit to update current models.
Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1473338993#fXXkKjFTXW2mbFZq.99
Very interesting on paper it looks like a good idea. To get 4k HDR content from broadcast would be huge for the format. It makes my decision to wait this out till my Panasonic plasma dies even easier to accept.
I assume you mean 2 other sets that aren't the KS8000, correct? So it's still possible that we find out eventually that the KS8000 has low input lag in 4K HDR?
Maybe most games will go for better effects and more stable frame rate rather than higher resolution in their Pro versions until 4k is more prevalent?
palpabl_purpura
Member
It would potentially be 1080p HDR over broadcast due to bandwidth issues. To make matters even more complicated, some broadcasts may simply decide to go with 4K SDR over 1080p +HDR (can only choose one because of bandwidth issues); others may decide to go with 1080p + HDR over 4K SDR. It analogous to the 720p vs 1080i issue- to this day, FOX, ABC, ESPN still don't use the 1080 formats for broadcast.
So it may be better to wait it out then. Good info expecially if new sets start releasing with this. Would this be a cheaper option?
I am hoping Tomb Raider model is what everyone will follow eventually. A 4k mode and a 1080 High/ultra settings mode. I am not a developer but if most of these games end up on the PC I don't think it would be a huge deal to do it that way.
I will defer to your expertise on the issue. From what everyone says the HDR part is by far the biggest upgrade. So even 1080p over HDR sounds like it would be a good compromise.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Well, in light of the fact that you will be upgrading fewer times, it would be cheaper to wait. What I plan to do is to buy after the OLED vs LED battle is settled, and that is probably a good 5-10 years down the road.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
In the example I found on RTings where it was stated by them that they found it was a 10ms difference in 4K vs. 1080p under their testing Q&A section, it was not stated which set they found that for. They also didn't state whether it was one or more sets. Another person found an example under testing that it was about 30ms difference between the two resolution modes.
Based on this, I can only make the conclusion that the experiences vary by set. RTings does state that currently, the test is not accurate like the Leo Bodner.
RTings, in their testing section explain how a person can perform their own tests. I might give it a go, however don't have the time to do this yet. I have a KS8000.
I think we'll start to get a better idea fairly soon. Some of the bigger releases are coming out soon (and before the PS4 Pro releases). I'm hoping by late Oct to be able to decide if it's worthwhile to keep my Pro preorder and if so if it's worthwhile to upgrade to 4k or not.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yeah I was only basing the lag numbers on previous tests reported online. I haven't really done much HDR gaming on my set. Alien isolation is one game and I didn't notice anything nasty.
I think Samsung have been optimising with their newer firmware updates too. So that might account for the variation in test results.
I think Samsung have been optimising with their newer firmware updates too. So that might account for the variation in test results.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Oh, I'm not an expert by any means. I would define myself as a hawkish consumer. I've waited out LCOS, plasma, LCD, DLP wars for years with a RPCRT awaiting for the victor to emerge.
The concern I have is that HDR may or may not be supported by broadcast TV (cable/satellite, etc) and even if it is, current monitors may or may not be able to support it. So you may be disappointed if you have diverse viewing habits that include broadcast TV. If you primarily game, there are of course other issues (such as input lag) to deal with, but movie watchers will probably benefit the most.
Sevenfold
Member
Been unable to keep up with the recent TVGAF threadathon, but I'm hoping someone in the know can clear up a couple of things about the KS8000 US/UK/EU naming conventions and differences.
Is the US KS8000 the KS7000 in the UK, and if so which US model does the UK KS8000 represent?
Are the only differences between the same TVs US to EU model the different stand and the dual tuner?
Has there been a definitive answer regarding the HDR input lag at 4K?
I've seen the 1080 HDR result and it's really impressive. I use a Sony 55 955 as a monitor (17.5ms is godlike for a TV) and mouse movement is a non issue desktop or gaming. Very happy with it but feeling that 4K pull and 1080ti is inevitable and when I saw 22.5ms well. Sammy-Sony-Sammy haha. If it's a couple of ms no worries 10+ is a problem...
And... most important, has anyone in the UK found it for less than 1600 quids?
Is the US KS8000 the KS7000 in the UK, and if so which US model does the UK KS8000 represent?
Are the only differences between the same TVs US to EU model the different stand and the dual tuner?
Has there been a definitive answer regarding the HDR input lag at 4K?
I've seen the 1080 HDR result and it's really impressive. I use a Sony 55 955 as a monitor (17.5ms is godlike for a TV) and mouse movement is a non issue desktop or gaming. Very happy with it but feeling that 4K pull and 1080ti is inevitable and when I saw 22.5ms well. Sammy-Sony-Sammy haha. If it's a couple of ms no worries 10+ is a problem...
And... most important, has anyone in the UK found it for less than 1600 quids?
oneils
Member
Black ops 3 supports HDR?
Thank You!!!
Would KS9000 have better or worse lag than 8000?
I own the ks8000 and figure I'd give my two cents. Bear in mind I am in no way claiming this is exact, or science, this is my experience and perception.
For about a month I had been playing overwatch every day at 1080p on game mode. According to every website that is around 22ms input lag. Sometimes the tv switches itself to PC mode when I turn on the PC. I wouldn't notice, until I would boot up overwatch where the extra 15 ms lag would be immediately noticeable to me.
A couple weeks ago I realized I could turn down a couple settings and still run overwatch on epic at 4k 60, so I've been doing that. I don't notice any diffetence in lag from playing at 1080, which leads me to believe input lag is at least less than the 37 ms on pc mode, which I certainly notice, and there is no way in hell that the input lag at 4k is 50ms. This is all without hdr, but I don't see why hdr would add 2 ms at 1080p, and 30 ms at 4k.
Tldr: own ks8000, notice a lag difference between game mode and pc mode both at 1080p (around 15ms). Dont notice any differrence between game mode 1080 and game mode 4k.
For about a month I had been playing overwatch every day at 1080p on game mode. According to every website that is around 22ms input lag. Sometimes the tv switches itself to PC mode when I turn on the PC. I wouldn't notice, until I would boot up overwatch where the extra 15 ms lag would be immediately noticeable to me.
A couple weeks ago I realized I could turn down a couple settings and still run overwatch on epic at 4k 60, so I've been doing that. I don't notice any diffetence in lag from playing at 1080, which leads me to believe input lag is at least less than the 37 ms on pc mode, which I certainly notice, and there is no way in hell that the input lag at 4k is 50ms. This is all without hdr, but I don't see why hdr would add 2 ms at 1080p, and 30 ms at 4k.
Tldr: own ks8000, notice a lag difference between game mode and pc mode both at 1080p (around 15ms). Dont notice any differrence between game mode 1080 and game mode 4k.
JMZ555
Member
Just to give people a projector option. The new Epson 9300(5040 in US) has a decent input lag of around 29ms,
Its not native 4K but accepts 4K/HDR and uses Eshift tech to get close to look of 4K .
If you looking for a projector which can accept 4K/HDR for Movies but also be great for gaming under £3k/$3k its a option.
Its not native 4K but accepts 4K/HDR and uses Eshift tech to get close to look of 4K .
If you looking for a projector which can accept 4K/HDR for Movies but also be great for gaming under £3k/$3k its a option.
Honestly i dont know what to think, i cant even use high settings on my tv for ps4 cause introduces a lot of input lag, the difference between high settings and game mode on my tv is almost like ps4 /ps4 pro.
Im afraid the ps4 pro will be great but will also had a lot of lag to it.
Im afraid the ps4 pro will be great but will also had a lot of lag to it.
I might be wrong but if something doesn't support HDR and you enable it, I do believe it will just make the colors more vibrant.
KS9000 has just a bit of a better input lag test than the 8000. I am using the 8000. I would most likely go game mode for competitive FPS shooters, but I will go without for single player games.
Devilinthiscity
Member
So pretty much the consensus is to get the Samasung KS8000? At this point I don't know if I should just use my current 1080p Bravia and wait for newer 4K HDR sets or just take the plunge and go with the KS8000.
suddenlyissoon
Member
This is the second wave.
Parmadillo Marshmallow
Member
Sorry if this has been answered already, but does anyone know the difference between "HDR Premium" and "HDR 1000" on Samsung tvs? I am at costco and the Samsungs have these different designations. Will they both work with the Pro?
So pretty much the consensus is to get the Samasung KS8000? At this point I don't know if I should just use my current 1080p Bravia and wait for newer 4K HDR sets or just take the plunge and go with the KS8000.
Why is the KS8000 I have been looking at in the UK like this? The base is different.
Is there a difference?
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Why is the KS8000 I have been looking at in the UK like this? The base is different.
Is there a difference?
For the UK models, basically just takeaway 1000 from the number.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Rtings.com is pretty good at giving info like this and you can search TV's by different categories, so searching for how good a TV is at gaming will show the best TV's for input lag.
Parmadillo Marshmallow
Member
Thanks. The weird thing is that the HDR 1000 Samsungs are more expensive than the HDR Premium Samsungs. Still don't know the difference...