wapplew
Member
I don't see the problem. It's their games, their store, they can put turd on top of their product, they have the right.
MS can build their walled garden however they like as long as they don't force others to do the same.
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Forza Horizon 3 is one the first games encrypted with Microsofts new DRM
- Thread starter texhnolyze
- Start date
I don't see the problem. It's their games, their store, they can put turd on top of their product, they have the right.
MS can build their walled garden however they like as long as they don't force others to do the same.
Souless Squirrel
Member
Ya when you join a modded server, usually player owned, you have to either have the mod downloaded or download the mod on the spot to play with others on that server. Sometimes like Dayz its a total conversion others are simple game modes like prop hunt in TF2. If you try to force your way in while having some sort of content not allowed on that server the anticheat usually kicks you out.
Dick Justice
Banned
But what we really need is anti-consumer DRM that serves to protect the poor old publishers from losing out on that sweet micro-transaction money.
Then I suppose Microsoft will have to understand if PC gamers opt out of supporting their software.
dr_rus
Member
Right, because apparently there are no successful competitive MP games on PC, never were and without this type of restrictive, abusive DRM never will be. Apparently you need to encrypt all the data to be able to prevent client side cheating. Thanks for that, I'll go throw my Quake CD into the dumpster.
TBiddy
Member
It's easier to pat each others shoulders and use the "Shilling/Defence Force/Astroturfers" narrative as a way to effectively ruin any attempt of a normal discussion.
edit:
If we look aside from the fact, that you obviously disagree with him, what is wrong with that post? It's well-formulated, he presents his arguments and does it in a respectful tone.
Well, you decide.
IMO, Richard was way, way too forgiving in his video.
He did mention having to reinstall Windows just to finish the download, and losing 100+ GB of bandwidth before hand, sure, but... Seriously, it should be stated, re-stated and repeated throughout the whole video - shit like this was inexcusable in 2003. It's criminal in 2016!
Indeed.
The thing is that, to me, astroturfing is the much less saddening alternative.
So stick with those numerous platforms that give you what you want and don't ruin PC (the only platform which gives us what we want) for us.
>Detect mods on boot, put the game in offline mode
>Don't detect mods on boot, put the game in online mode
8-Bit Sunset
Banned
If you keep on buying and supporting stuff on their shite store it will just keep getting worse.
Just boycott them completely or you are part of the problem!　
Sorry, but zero sympathy!
Just boycott them completely or you are part of the problem!　
Sorry, but zero sympathy!
Agreed...the most important thing to me is being able to believe that a competitive environment in a pc game is not being circumvented or hacked.
Also isn't this basically the exact same thing as Denuvo? Why is this specifically any different on the encryption front?
MS has the right to do what they want on there storefront but then should expect to loose some sales due to these policies. There are plenty of PC gamers who consider Mods to be a important part, they can extend the playtime of games and also improve/save a game.
I don't have a problem with them having there own DRM but I find it funny and stupid how they spend time and money on developing DRM for there games to combat piracy when they could have spent that time and money on actually making the storefront actually work properly. That would result in them selling more copies of games even with PC gamers potentially pirating the games.
I don't have a problem with them having there own DRM but I find it funny and stupid how they spend time and money on developing DRM for there games to combat piracy when they could have spent that time and money on actually making the storefront actually work properly. That would result in them selling more copies of games even with PC gamers potentially pirating the games.
Horsemama1956
Member
Why not try this on Forza 6 Apex? They would have had a year to fix it or abandon it.
Hit the nail on the head.
dragonelite
Member
Free game vs paid game.
It's encrypting the app folder it's probably functionality other software sectors asked for too make it more attractive to supply windows store apps.
Encryption only became a choice on the platform with Anniversary Update...apex shipped long before that
You can go play on your sacred Xbox if you're too scared of imaginary boogeymen.
Caayn
Member
I don't have enough problems with the UWP + W10 Store platform to not buy games from it. I'm a problem apparently¯\_(ツ
_/¯not really Denuvo just encrypts exe/dlls and the biggest problem of it to me is that it uses third party auth servers and that offline play is not pernament.
UWP/Eappx on ther hand encrypts every file and sideloads the game from OS, also its OS-level DRM on a store which is mobile-mess at the moment
Even Capcom's rootkit is more pro-customer than this
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Good idea.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Hmm... I think good judgment is needed when it comes to things like this. By itself, this file encryption wouldn't do much by itself due to its relatively lack of overhead - remember that AES is so fast you'd be still storage bottlenecked at the end of the day if your CPU isn't extremely old, let alone something that meets the specifications, as well as the game's streaming loads shouldn't be outpacing a 5400 RPM drive on an Xbox One anyway.
As for DRM getting in the way of modding, one has to consider that this game was never meant to be modded. If they eventually add mod support, or someone figures out how to mod the game anyway, that's good! Though as itself the game has plenty to offer; a game not being moddable shouldn't deter anyone from purchasing it nor influence purchase decisions too much. Judge a game by its own merits (until the technical or gameplay issues become too much, then that's another case entirely; and in this game's case, neither apply.)
Putting a DRM-enabled label would be a good idea, anyway, if to appease the folks that must know. In the end, as a normal game player, it doesn't really matter to me.
Now, I still have yet to plan for the dough to buy the game. I think I'll wait for the demo first; by then, most of the bugs might have been patched out. Lately I've noticed that more and more games come out of the oven a bit lacking.
As for DRM getting in the way of modding, one has to consider that this game was never meant to be modded. If they eventually add mod support, or someone figures out how to mod the game anyway, that's good! Though as itself the game has plenty to offer; a game not being moddable shouldn't deter anyone from purchasing it nor influence purchase decisions too much. Judge a game by its own merits (until the technical or gameplay issues become too much, then that's another case entirely; and in this game's case, neither apply.)
Putting a DRM-enabled label would be a good idea, anyway, if to appease the folks that must know. In the end, as a normal game player, it doesn't really matter to me.
Now, I still have yet to plan for the dough to buy the game. I think I'll wait for the demo first; by then, most of the bugs might have been patched out. Lately I've noticed that more and more games come out of the oven a bit lacking.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Stay losing, uwp. Gears will be the only game I own on it thanks to the free 1070 thing.
Nailed it. Piracy protections do nothing but hurt legitimate consumers. Case in point: Malware Street Fighter 5.
Apparently this encryption was circumvented already, so much for that. Paying customers stay losing.
Felix Lighter
Member
These threads are insane. It's crazy that there are a handful of posters that seem to see eye to eye on every Microsoft decision, at least in the threads I encounter them in. What are the odds?
spindoctor
Member
Always fascinating when people who aren't PC gamers feel compelled to tell PC gamers what PC gaming should be like.
I think they just don't want PC gamers have ability to mod games freely because they can't do that on their consoles.
Well, to play devil's advocate FH3 is cross-play between PC and Xbox One so modded content on the PC could cause problems playing with users on the Xbox.
And I'm sure like most cross-play titles, Console gamers (and PC gamers) can turn that off if they want to stick with people on their own platform.
LuvOfThaGame said:
Thanks for letting me know to auto-ignore everything you say going forward. <3
Dick Justice
Banned
LOL.
Setting aside a lot of stuff and going straight to a basic does-this-work-game-work-acceptably:
If this is as the post says, it's another stake in the heart of the Windows Store. I just experienced what it's like to get Dead Space running acceptably on PC with mouse/keyboard. If that happens in a scenario involving what the post outlines, I would deem the product not fit for purchase. I shouldn't have to go to the effort Dead Space required, but I've accepted that as part of PC gaming and there are awesome people in the community willing to pick up where developers drop off. Removing that makes the product a worrying investment.
Yes, Microsoft have the right, but, contrary to what the evidence says, I do believe Microsoft actually wants to make a profit long term.
I get you're playing devil's advocate, but they could put a check in for modded files on launch. Plenty of games do that, from the multiplayer components to locking down achievements when mods are detected.
If this is as the post says, it's another stake in the heart of the Windows Store. I just experienced what it's like to get Dead Space running acceptably on PC with mouse/keyboard. If that happens in a scenario involving what the post outlines, I would deem the product not fit for purchase. I shouldn't have to go to the effort Dead Space required, but I've accepted that as part of PC gaming and there are awesome people in the community willing to pick up where developers drop off. Removing that makes the product a worrying investment.
Yes, Microsoft have the right, but, contrary to what the evidence says, I do believe Microsoft actually wants to make a profit long term.
I get you're playing devil's advocate, but they could put a check in for modded files on launch. Plenty of games do that, from the multiplayer components to locking down achievements when mods are detected.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
Well fuck that. I was wanting to get Gears 4 on PC.
StereoVsn
Member
I am shocked that MS did this, shocked I tell you. Also I pity the poor souls without an SSD and the ones with SSD are going to have some fun with extra writes inherent in re-encrypting files. What a mess.
On the good side, depending on what Intel chip you have EFS can be hardware based action.
On the good side, depending on what Intel chip you have EFS can be hardware based action.
I can't say I've seen any options like that yet for FH3 on the Xbox (limiting opponents to console only). I'm honestly not sure how the cross-play works yet... whether you can get both in match making or whether it is private matches only.
I'd need to look into that more.
I agree, that could probably be done but I suspect (and this is only my theory) that going to the UWP model of shared code between them would have something to do with locking it down. Not saying this is right or wrong, just that I suspect being one of the first cross-play MS games and this also being one of the first with encryption seems like it would be connected.
texhnolyze
Banned
Fascinating. Maybe then we'll get the confirmation whether the encryption is the main cause of the stuttering issues or not.
plagiarize
Banned
As an Xbox One owner I can swallow this on Play Anywhere titles. Anything else, not so much.
I would have bought Forza Horizon 3 on Xbox One if that was the only platform it was on. So the PC version is just this nice potential bonus thing to me even locked down and in need of a few patches right now.
I would have bought Forza Horizon 3 on Xbox One if that was the only platform it was on. So the PC version is just this nice potential bonus thing to me even locked down and in need of a few patches right now.
Collateral22
Member
Same. Already worried about the low player base, I might just get an X1 slim for it again.
Well Microsoft publishing Quantum Break on Steam this week certainly shows they want to actually make money/sell copies, whether or not they'll ever do it with games like FH3 or Gears 4 is another matter.
That would be a problem. But an easy solution is to disallow online features while mods are installed. (ie. instead of encrypting, just sign files and if signature is invalid or removed, considers files modified). They should be doing that anyway.
They should be also checking server side that data player sends is possible, ie. if you edit speed of car to double, server should kick you.
There's no any kind of re-encrypting. Encrypting itself isn't dangerous for SSDs, in fact many SSDs do always encrypt data internally on-the-fly.
What's interesting is that there is no sign of any other DRM but steam on it.
Can't wait to see the defense of this encryption now.
Felix Lighter
Member
I doubt MS gives a shit about Quantum Break sales now. Probably just a deal with Remedy to get more eyes on a project they worked on for years. The only thing they care about with this new PC initiative is to drive people to the Win 10 store. Individual title's sales mean little in comparison, which is obvious when you look at the way they cripple the sales out of the gate.