Frankfurter
Member
If they put in a CPU that doesn't share similar performance to say a Skylake i5, then those 6TF are going to waste IMO.
Just like Sonys 4.2 Tflops are a waste?
If they put in a CPU that doesn't share similar performance to say a Skylake i5, then those 6TF are going to waste IMO.
Hasnt AMD said that this will be somewhere between Haswell and Broadwell in performance per clock? You are right that this isn't going to be THE top of the line gaming CPU. What it could end up being is a Broadwell-E killer. As in, performance on par with the 8 core Broadwell-E but MUCH cheaper.
If they put in a CPU that doesn't share similar performance to say a Skylake i5, then those 6TF are going to waste IMO.
No necessarily. you need better than Jaguar to play a lot of the most recent games at 60fps instead of 30...
Just look at how many PS4 Pro titles are still stuck at 30fps due to Jaguar...
Xbox One games at 4K60 with upgraded visuals would need the power...
For reference, RotTR on PS4 Pro... you have 4K mode, enhanced visual mode at 1080p, and uncapped framerate mode at 1080p(which still isn't 60fps despite being at standard PS4 settings, this is due to the Jaguar CPU bottleneck...)
In order for Scorpio to roll all three modes at once... and it would need the extra horsepower from both the 6TF and Zen to do it... Jaguar just won't cut it... So, if they are sticking with Jaguary, the extra GPU power is pretty pointless since you con't get better framerates out of it...
So extra GPU power is pointless if you don't get more FPS out of it? Higher resolution, higher details, better shadows etc - all pointless unless we get 60fps?
If they make it only play Xbox one games in higher resolution then anything more than jaguar is a waste IMO
If they make it only play Xbox one games in higher resolution then those 6TF are going to waste IMO
Again this feels more like people projecting their wishes onto a piece of hardware before it comes out, rather than applying any kind of logic to all the comments about it so far from both MS and AMD and the available technology in that time frame
So extra GPU power is pointless if you don't get more FPS out of it? Higher resolution, higher details, better shadows etc - all pointless unless we get 60fps?
AMD rendered something with Blender and used a 3 Ghz Zen (8 cores) vs. a 3 Ghz Broadwell (8 cores) and finished the Rendering in the same amount of time, with a tiny edge for Zen.Hasnt AMD said that this will be somewhere between Haswell and Broadwell in performance per clock? You are right that this isn't going to be THE top of the line gaming CPU. What it could end up being is a Broadwell-E killer. As in, performance on par with the 8 core Broadwell-E but MUCH cheaper.
According to you any kind advancements are pointless based on your post i was responding to...
But yes, if better actual performance isn't on the table, everything else is a bit pointless when your goal is to make better versions of current games that have performance issues...
There's also the fact Scorpio needs to be oculus ready. Last I checked jaguar is severely not able to be compatible with it performance wise
So extra GPU power is pointless if you don't get more FPS out of it? Higher resolution, higher details, better shadows etc - all pointless unless we get 60fps?
Then I don't know what to tell you... based on your posts you don't seem to know what you want or think is a worthwhile use of the processing power...Except my original post that you quoted was clearly referencing the post I quoted saying that 6TF was a waste without an i5 level CPU - in other words disagreeing with that statement
Then I don't know what to tell you... based on your posts you don't seem to know what you want or think is a worthwhile use of the processing power...
Edit: but then I did just have back surgery and am lying in a hospital bed on meds... I may not be following your reasoning very well.
But yes, extra GPU power does become pointless if your CPU can't feed it and becomes a bottle neck... If it's already choking on draw calls with the current Xbox One GPU, what do you think will to happen with a 6TF GPU?
Sorry - I think extra GPU power is very welcome for better image quality, higher resolutions and higher detail. While I would welcome a big CPU increase I don't think it is likely, given the technology landscape at the moment. And considering MS' comments about it playing XB1 games I think they are looking at a PS Pro type machine.
Given all that, a jaguar based approach would be realistic and deliver what is wanted - XB1 games in 4K.
But because the machine doesn't yet exist, we are seeing lots of posters hoping it'll have this or that, and hoping for 60fps. We saw the same with PS Pro. Nice to want things, but at the same time I think expectations should be tempered.
(And nothing will happen with draw calls on a 6TF GPU if they aren't drawing more polygons, simply the same polygons at a higher res. I'd also expect them to do a frequency boost like pro did)
Sorry - I think extra GPU power is very welcome for better image quality, higher resolutions and higher detail. While I would welcome a big CPU increase I don't think it is likely, given the technology landscape at the moment. And considering MS' comments about it playing XB1 games I think they are looking at a PS Pro type machine.
Given all that, a jaguar based approach would be realistic and deliver what is wanted - XB1 games in 4K.
But because the machine doesn't yet exist, we are seeing lots of posters hoping it'll have this or that, and hoping for 60fps. We saw the same with PS Pro. Nice to want things, but at the same time I think expectations should be tempered.
(And nothing will happen with draw calls on a 6TF GPU if they aren't drawing more polygons, simply the same polygons at a higher res. I'd also expect them to do a frequency boost like pro did)
CPU is almost entirely irrelevant to shifting a title's resolution. I can only think of two areas where it would have an effect--putting pressure on a CPU-based decompression routine as the higher resolution brings in textures with higher mips (but you shouldn't be using CPU compression on a console). Another minor involvement is if you have some sort of screen pixel based LOD metric, and shifting the LODs higher due to unadjusted LOD algorithm results in meshes with more discrete material sections being submitted to the renderer, which results in higher effective draw call throughput (this is something you have to be careful with when doing dynamic resolution even sub 4K).
These threads are almost entirely devoid of rational discussion (and I try to stay out of them but occasionally my will fails). Even Seb on B3D, who is very, very smart, vastly underestimates the amount of branchy general purpose CPU code we ran on e.g. SPUs last generation.
I was talking about games that currently struggle to maintain 30fps regardless of resolution getting better performance and higher framerate from a better CPU. You can't argue that the Jaguar isn't a bottleneck.
Even with the PS4 Pro's clock boost, we've seen how difficult it can be to maintain 30fps .I think/hope those will be ok - I'd expect a clock boost at least
What gives you that idea? Even taking AMD's own claims of 40% IPC improvements over their previous generation completely at face value, they still wouldn't match current Intel IPC. Do you believe they will make up for that by 5 GHz clocks?
Now performance/price? They could well be competitive there. But I jut don't see a way for that to occur in absolute performance.
What gives you that idea? Even taking AMD's own claims of 40% IPC improvements over their previous generation completely at face value, they still wouldn't match current Intel IPC. Do you believe they will make up for that by 5 GHz clocks?
Now performance/price? They could well be competitive there. But I jut don't see a way for that to occur in absolute performance.
CPU is almost entirely irrelevant to shifting a title's resolution. I can only think of two areas where it would have an effect--putting pressure on a CPU-based decompression routine as the higher resolution brings in textures with higher mips (but you shouldn't be using CPU compression on a console). Another minor involvement is if you have some sort of screen pixel based LOD metric, and shifting the LODs higher due to unadjusted LOD algorithm results in meshes with more discrete material sections being submitted to the renderer, which results in higher effective draw call throughput (this is something you have to be careful with when doing dynamic resolution even sub 4K).
These threads are almost entirely devoid of rational discussion (and I try to stay out of them but occasionally my will fails). Even Seb on B3D, who is very, very smart, vastly underestimates the amount of branchy general purpose CPU code we ran on e.g. SPUs last generation.