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Introducing the Potato Masher "Pro" (PC priced at PS4 Pro price)

Whether you call it rendering or upscaling, to me, it doesn't matter. It's not native 4K and will never look as good as native 4K.
If it matters to you to distinguish between native and checkerboard (because the former looks better), then it should matter to you to distinguish between checkerboard and upscaling (because the former looks better).

And also, you're factually incorrect. There are situations where checkerboard looks precisely the same as native--not "you won't notice the difference", but literally the exact same pixels. This will typically be in scattered regions rather than the whole frame, but even that can happen.
 

sirap

Member
lol. You do good work Liabe, but I wouldn't bother. Some people just won't budge. Hell, even "tech" reviewers couldn't be half-assed to read up on checkerboard rendering. Much easier to call if upscaling and go about your day.

After all, it's not like the human eye can see beyond 1080p ;)
 

Lister

Banned
No, it absolutely is not, and your insistence on calling it that shows you don't understand. You know how normal rasterization works, right? There's an idealized scene with 3D objects which are defined mathematically. The purpose of a rendering engine is to determine what luma/chroma values projected to a quantized 2D plane would most faithfully represent the scene.

So the defined position of the object and its faces determines a base pixel value. This is then refined by adding textures, shaders, and lighting. Often, further adjustments are made based on things like the values of adjacent pixels in a buffer.

What does checkerboard rendering do? Well, the defined position of the object and its faces, carrying texture/shading/lighting augmentations from its prior-frame position, determines a base pixel value. Then, further adjustments can be made based on things like the values of adjacent pixels in a buffer.

What does scaling do? The values of adjacent pixels in a buffer determine the final values.

So the technical details of the methods clearly indicate checkerboard is a type of rendering, not a type of scaling. But there's even more reasons that's true:

1. In certain situations, checkerboard can produce results identical to native rendering.
2. Checkerboard can produce luma/chroma values outside the range of surrounding pixels.
3. The inventors and users of the method refer to it as "checkerboard rendering", not any type of upscaling. So does every dev I've seen on GAF.

In short, the case is closed. Checkerboard rendering is just that, and not a type of scaling.

Hmmm.... this actually convinces me that a rendering technique is more accurate.
 

Lister

Banned
If it matters to you to distinguish between native and checkerboard (because the former looks better), then it should matter to you to distinguish between checkerboard and upscaling (because the former looks better).

And also, you're factually incorrect. There are situations where checkerboard looks precisely the same as native--not "you won't notice the difference", but literally the exact same pixels. This will typically be in scattered regions rather than the whole frame, but even that can happen.

This would only happen when there's zero moment on the screen though, no? Something that is unlikely to happen on a game.
 
So in the UK and I want to make a Potato Masher Pro right from the start with no keyboard, mouse, Windows/OS, can anyone help me with a near as identical replica build and what it would cost?

After issues with a pro, I'm considering returning it, getting a refund and building one of these.

Was going to spend about £1700 a wee while ago between me and my son but he had cold feet when it came to spending the money lol so now I'm thinking of doing one for myself and using my old ps4 as exclusives.
 

Malcolm9

Member
So in the UK and I want to make a Potato Masher Pro right from the start with no keyboard, mouse, Windows/OS, can anyone help me with a near as identical replica build and what it would cost?

After issues with a pro, I'm considering returning it, getting a refund and building one of these.

Was going to spend about £1700 a wee while ago between me and my son but he had cold feet when it came to spending the money lol so now I'm thinking of doing one for myself and using my old ps4 as exclusives.

What are your issues with the Pro?
 
What are your issues with the Pro?

Just started to get a blue screen on and off. Also not happy that my skyrim is stuttery but that could still be sorted with a patch.

I made a thread on the blue screen and would like to post some videos but I've no idea how to do it lol!
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
This would only happen when there's zero moment on the screen though, no? Something that is unlikely to happen on a game.

You can also store things like motion vectors for objects or even pixels and use that to predict where a pixel will be in the next frame to mitigate this - but yes, fast lateral movement can cause some artifacting on edges.

But in a static scene, the effect of checkerboard rendering can luertalky be identical to native 4K rendering, whereas an upscale from a lower resolution never will be.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
So in the UK and I want to make a Potato Masher Pro right from the start with no keyboard, mouse, Windows/OS, can anyone help me with a near as identical replica build and what it would cost?

After issues with a pro, I'm considering returning it, getting a refund and building one of these.

Was going to spend about £1700 a wee while ago between me and my son but he had cold feet when it came to spending the money lol so now I'm thinking of doing one for myself and using my old ps4 as exclusives.

Just post in the 'I need a new pc' with requirements, budget etc - they'll help you out
 
I can build the same system in the UK for £650, with new parts. If I could source aftermarket parts, I could drop it to £450/500.

image.png


Comes to £575, without the OS. You can save £60 by switching the 6GB 1060 for a 4GB RX470.

Bare in mind these parts could be found slightly cheaper elsewhere.

Got mine at £465.64 but still need the following:-

- +£29.40 used i5 750 via amazonIntel i5-750 Quad Core Processor - 2.66 GHz, 8MB Cache, 2.5 GT/sec, Socket 1156, 45 nm, 3 Year Warranty, Retail Boxed
by Intel.

- +£8.87 via amazon ARCTIC Alpine 11 GT Rev.2 - Super Silent Intel CPU cooler for Mini PCs - Up to 75 watts cooling capacity with 80 mm PWM fan

- £16.99 via amazon generic Keyboard and Mouse Set UK Layout, Jelly Comb Whisper-quiet 2.4G Ultra Slim Portable Wireless Keyboard and Mouse Combo for Desktop, Windows/iOS/Android, White and Grey by Jelly Comb

= comes to £520.99 BUT STILL NEED TO ADD MOTHERBOARD as can't find the one needed, so going to use the one Opus posted @ Intel H110 @ £59.99

+£59.99 H110


= Grand Total
= £580.89

(anyone got any ideas on motherboard cos above is not 1156 socket set so not sure if works)

Anyways, @ £580 for as near as to a Potato Pro. Note used a Gaming X GTX1060 as the G1 Gaming was £20 more. So if like for like then £600.

I bought ps4 for £350 @ Launch.

I bought ps4 pro £350 @ Launch.

Can get £110 cash at moment from CEX (which looks almost best deal considering all the cheap offers for a slim with games and stuff).

Total cost to this point having a Pro is £350 + £350 - £110 = £590.
= Pretty much the same cost (plus ps+ costs if want to take that into account).

However, I want a ps4 so I can play the exclusives so to me its gonna be a total cost of £350 (ps4) + £600 Potato Pro. With a 1080p projector, I don't think the Pro is worth it imo (plus I already bought a ps4 at launch) and I'm now looking at ps4 just for exclusives and 3rd party (Potato Pro PC).

That shows exactly why scraping the bottom of the barrel to make a budget PC outside the US is a bad idea. £650~ and we're having to use a £25 PSU to get there. A couple hundred quid more results in an exponentially better build with double the RAM, an i5, a good PSU and an SSD.

The compromises involved in a budget build aren't worth it when they cost double what a PS4 Pro costs and relative to what spending a bit more for a mid tier PC brings, which would also be a good computer to iterate from over time, much more so than a budget PC with super entry level parts throughout other than the 1060.

That's why the whole "I built a PC for the same cost as a new console" thing rubs me up the wrong way as it's so misleading. It's always very US-centric and results in a build nobody should buy that is significantly more expensive than a console but significantly worse than a mid tier build that costs slightly more. An awkward half-way compromise.

This is why I eventually didn't build a pc a wee while ago after my son pulled out because its almost an impossibility to 'draw the line' and not get the best 'everything'.

After your comments though, I'm back to square one thinking no to Potato Pro PC


I take your general point, however.

- A £25 PSU is more than adequate for the parts used
- 16GB of system RAM is complete overkill, this is a gaming PC not a workstation
- i5 again is overkill (in the context of budget)
- The PS4 Pro does not use an SSD

The point of the project was to replicate performance of the PS4 Pro, not beat it. Of course you could add £200+ to the build and it would perform better. That's not the objective here.



I know exactly what it means, and I clarified that on the last page.

Back to Potato Pro!

You're already spending double the cost of the PS4 Pro with this build, I would hope it could at least replicate it! The entire premise is predicated on a lie and the whole potato thing is a big part of why PC evangelism has gotten intolerably obnoxious. He even opens by saying PC gaming is objectively better, I mean seriously...

As for the upgrades I listed, I assume anyone building a PC for gaming would be using it for most of their computing needs. A lot of us are used to SSDs for applications outside of gaming and there is no going back to a spinner. A budget PSU that could potentially fail and take out several components is a false economy too. Let's deal in practicalities here instead of builds on a spreadsheet; the budget PC is awful bang for buck. It's a stupid stick that PC evangelicals have devised to try to beat consoles round the head with.

Could I save £85 having just a Steam OS or do I need some form of Window OS to play the older games even if I buy all off Steam?

I don't see the point. Can if play PS4 exclusives and if not, why not just build a PC that's more powerful? It's silly.

Still need to be able to play ps4 games personally

Time I spent "tinkering" with the Witcher 3: 5 minutes.

Time I saved not being stuck behind MINUTE and a HALF+ load times if I were playing on a PS4: HOURS.

Time I didn't have to wait for a patch that made the frame rate go above 20 when in marshes, when using explding weapons, when in cities: ~6 months.

Time I won't have to wait for a patch for my more powerful hardware to make the game run and look better from here until the day I die: Infinite, because that patch isn't coming to the Pro.

Value of playing the game at 60 FPS at gorgeous 3440x1440p ultra wide and with some really cool mods with 5-20 second load times: priceless.

Sounds good!

Just post in the 'I need a new pc' with requirements, budget etc - they'll help you out

Thanks.
 
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