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Introducing the Potato Masher "Pro" (PC priced at PS4 Pro price)
- Thread starter Lister
- Start date
Opus Angelorum
Member
From the YouTube details:
i5 750 overclocked to 3.7 ghz
Asus P7H55 LGA 1156 motherboard
8GB DDR3 memory
Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB G1 Gaming
320GB Samsung Spinpoint HDD
Cooler Master Wavemaster Case
Arctic Alpine 11 GT cpu cooler
EVGA 430 watt PSU
Logitech KB+M combo
Windows 10 64-bit
Pretty cool build if your looking for a good entry level PC. The nice thing is if you built something like this you now have a base you can slowly upgrade. I like how right now options for video cards and the competition is plentiful and the pricing is pretty great with all the different types. I need to grab one of those 1060's soon and I'd have close to what he has in that build and right now my video card is pretty bad lol.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Exactly. The overarching benefit of going PC. Build a decent base system and upgrade it over time.
Only thing is, that doesn't work if your base is already kinda old.
The next upgrade path here would probably be the CPU and at that point you're likely looking at a CPU+motherboard+DDR4RAM and potentially PSU upgrade.
So, basically an entire new system.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Back in 2013 ARM development wasn't anywhere close to what it is now.
Also the devs wanted x86 for ease of development.
I sincerely hope AMD puts their shit together after Zen and the next gen of SoC is much better.
And consequently loud as fuck as soon as any component is put to use? Nah, I'll never understand how people are willing to make that kind of sacrifice just to cram everything in a tiny case.
I can build the same system in the UK for £650, with new parts. If I could source aftermarket parts, I could drop it to £450/500.
Comes to £575, without the OS. You can save £60 by switching the 6GB 1060 for a 4GB RX470.
Bare in mind these parts could be found slightly cheaper elsewhere.
That shows exactly why scraping the bottom of the barrel to make a budget PC outside the US is a bad idea. £650~ and we're having to use a £25 PSU to get there. A couple hundred quid more results in an exponentially better build with double the RAM, an i5, a good PSU and an SSD.
The compromises involved in a budget build aren't worth it when they cost double what a PS4 Pro costs and relative to what spending a bit more for a mid tier PC brings, which would also be a good computer to iterate from over time, much more so than a budget PC with super entry level parts throughout other than the 1060.
That's why the whole "I built a PC for the same cost as a new console" thing rubs me up the wrong way as it's so misleading. It's always very US-centric and results in a build nobody should buy that is significantly more expensive than a console but significantly worse than a mid tier build that costs slightly more. An awkward half-way compromise.
Because people buying a PS4 more than likely don't game at a desk and wouldn't want a monster of a tower sitting in their front room.
LordRaptor
Member
Small form factor + low noise profiling costs money, and is a specialised kind of build that isn't as universally beneficial as better CPU / better GPU / more RAM / more or faster HDD space is for a "cheap as possible viable rig"
He has some sort of roundabout logic to justifying stuffing a 1060 in there, but the fact is just the CPU and the video card are over $400.
Anyway, only thing this video showed me is that the 1060 is a great value, and that it's a real shame the Pro wasn't able to get a more sizable CPU upgrade.
I've had a 280X card in my PC for two-plus years, and it still serves more than well. I think I'll only be upgrading that thing when mid-range cards start outclassing it two-to-three times.
And as a PC gamer, one advantage of the consoles having jaguar cores is that I really don't have to worry about the CPU side of things at all.
Anyway, only thing this video showed me is that the 1060 is a great value, and that it's a real shame the Pro wasn't able to get a more sizable CPU upgrade.
I've had a 280X card in my PC for two-plus years, and it still serves more than well. I think I'll only be upgrading that thing when mid-range cards start outclassing it two-to-three times.
And as a PC gamer, one advantage of the consoles having jaguar cores is that I really don't have to worry about the CPU side of things at all.
Hesemonni
Banned
Aah sorry, didn't notice
Anyway, much appreciated.I really enjoy this series. It's just very interesting to see how budget PCs hold up in the latest games since it's obviously the more enthusiast crowd that is mostly vocal about performance and all that.
The major advantage - instant performance gratification without having to pray for developers going back to support their games - is especially striking with some tested titles.
The major advantage - instant performance gratification without having to pray for developers going back to support their games - is especially striking with some tested titles.
Stop using this word if you don't know what it means.
As someone who owns a Pro, Xbox One S and PC (6700K/1080) I really tire of the "potato" console meme.
Complete bollocks if you ask me.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I take your general point, however.
- A £25 PSU is more than adequate for the parts used
- 16GB of system RAM is complete overkill, this is a gaming PC not a workstation
- i5 again is overkill (in the context of budget)
- The PS4 Pro does not use an SSD
The point of the project was to replicate performance of the PS4 Pro, not beat it. Of course you could add £200+ to the build and it would perform better. That's not the objective here.
I know exactly what it means, and I clarified that on the last page.
Equanimity
Member
I can agree with that.
The only problem with this is in Canada that build would be more then the Pro, the video card and cpu alone will end up costing more then a Pro never mind the rest of it.Also this assumes you have a monitor or your plugging it in to your TV. I love my PC but really at at this price point you're better off with the Pro, or try to save a few hundred more $$ and get a proper mid tier PC.
Abilidebob
Member
Don't people usually call slow PCs a potato? I always thought the "Potato Masher" was a reference to that, not that consoles are as slow as potatos.
Clearly you don't.
Opus Angelorum said:
This is not what aftermarket means. Aftermarket doesn't have anything to do with availability and is not limited to secondary markets. All the parts you have listed would be considered aftermarket for an OEM product.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I stand corrected.
Lister
Banned
Guys, I think one of the point is to show how the original potato masher, built when the PS4 came out and that beat the original PS4 in performance for the SAME cost, can now be upgraded to perform better than the PS4 Pro for the same amount of money as selling your old PS4 (for $210, which I don't think you cna even get for one now) and buying the PS4 Pro.
Now If you're starting from scratch, you wouldn't want to pick up these parts, he mentiones this too, but you're also going to get an even better performing PC in the end. On the CPu side alone it means the PS4 Pro isn't ever going to be hanging with your performance in open world games.
Now If you're starting from scratch, you wouldn't want to pick up these parts, he mentiones this too, but you're also going to get an even better performing PC in the end. On the CPu side alone it means the PS4 Pro isn't ever going to be hanging with your performance in open world games.
You're already spending double the cost of the PS4 Pro with this build, I would hope it could at least replicate it! The entire premise is predicated on a lie and the whole potato thing is a big part of why PC evangelism has gotten intolerably obnoxious. He even opens by saying PC gaming is objectively better, I mean seriously...
As for the upgrades I listed, I assume anyone building a PC for gaming would be using it for most of their computing needs. A lot of us are used to SSDs for applications outside of gaming and there is no going back to a spinner. A budget PSU that could potentially fail and take out several components is a false economy too. Let's deal in practicalities here instead of builds on a spreadsheet; the budget PC is awful bang for buck. It's a stupid stick that PC evangelicals have devised to try to beat consoles round the head with.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I didn't miss the point at all. If what that person is trying to do is to make simple comparisons then there's nothing wrong with the video. However, this is what you said.
I don't think you can find many people to be in a similar situation as described in the OP. I think the video would be far more informative if the PC was built from scratch.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I don't see the point. Can if play PS4 exclusives and if not, why not just build a PC that's more powerful? It's silly.
Lister
Banned
You don't think there are any PC gamers out there looking at upgrading their PC or getting a Pro?
Opus Angelorum
Member
On one hand your stating this build is almost twice the cost of a PS4 Pro, and on the other saying most people would use it for other purposes as well.
So in effect, you can't possible build a PS4 Pro equivalent because a PC can do so much more.
The situation being having a PS4-specced PC and a PS4 and deciding which one is more worth upgrading.
Lister
Banned
Can the PS4 play PC exclusives (seriously, this is just such a ridiculous question to pose)?
With a lower end PC you can still beat PS4 Pro performance, you can be pretty much guaranteed of improved IQ/graphics performance on games vs waiting for a patch that might never come on the Pro, or, even make the game run or look worse!
Sure you can spend $1,000+ instead and run native 4K games on PC, but you don't have to do that to beat the PS4 Pro, or have a similar gaming experience to it.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I'll give you guys a good example.
My best friend George built a mid-range gaming PC four years ago, and is interested in upgrading. He really only needs a new motherboard (£50), memory (£50), CPU (£100) and GPU (£200).
So his option (in this context) would be:
- Get a PS4 Pro for £320
- Upgrade his PC for £400
Yes he could make a much better PC that would outclass a PS4 Pro, but that's not what he wants.
My best friend George built a mid-range gaming PC four years ago, and is interested in upgrading. He really only needs a new motherboard (£50), memory (£50), CPU (£100) and GPU (£200).
So his option (in this context) would be:
- Get a PS4 Pro for £320
- Upgrade his PC for £400
Yes he could make a much better PC that would outclass a PS4 Pro, but that's not what he wants.
Everybody knows that one of the major advantages of a PC is that you don't have to replace the whole thing when you want to upgrade. That's one of the reason why PC gamers are PC gamers. If you already own a rig that isn't a toaster, upgrading your rig is generally cheaper. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
If I was interested in PC exclusives I'd buy a PC. PC owners seem so power obsessed that they can't even see how obvious things really are.
Serious Sam
Member
Well as always with such videos they use all sorts of tricks to make PC price seem lower than it actually is. This time he "upgraded" old PC, other youtubers compare PCs that are 100-200$ more expensive to consoles as equals, not even taking into account mouse/keyboard/controller cost. Also he cherry picked some of the best optimized PC games, many of them old, that received multiple optimization patches.
Nothing new in this video really, PC gaming always was and always will be more expensive and more time consuming (because of tinkering and broken ports) than comparable console gaming.
Nothing new in this video really, PC gaming always was and always will be more expensive and more time consuming (because of tinkering and broken ports) than comparable console gaming.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
So a GTX 1060? The PC if he's going to be playing the same games.
The GPU is usually the only part one has to look at to see the performance difference is worth it. (never ignoring the total price of course)
TheGreyHulk
Member
I have a potato masher. It's my pc from 2009.
i5 750 @ 4ghz
12 gigs ram
SSD
But it has a gtx 670 2 gig in it.
It's a solid performer still but i chose the ps4 pro instead of the gpu upgrade mainly because of exclusives on ps4.
This isnt a budget build tho. Its high end components that just age well over time.
Im not a fan of budget builds to match console performance. Id never recommend a dual core in this day and age. Spend an extra $50 and grab a low level i5 so it can last you years longer.
Also, you must include the OS in the cost. You dont need ps+ so that's an optional cost since not all care about MP gaming. You do need an OS though. It's not optional. It's required
i5 750 @ 4ghz
12 gigs ram
SSD
But it has a gtx 670 2 gig in it.
It's a solid performer still but i chose the ps4 pro instead of the gpu upgrade mainly because of exclusives on ps4.
This isnt a budget build tho. Its high end components that just age well over time.
Im not a fan of budget builds to match console performance. Id never recommend a dual core in this day and age. Spend an extra $50 and grab a low level i5 so it can last you years longer.
Also, you must include the OS in the cost. You dont need ps+ so that's an optional cost since not all care about MP gaming. You do need an OS though. It's not optional. It's required
Opus Angelorum
Member
LordRaptor
Member
Some people seem really bothered by the idea that you can build a PC gaming rig for - territorial pricing variables included - the same or not much more than a PS4Pro.
LordOfChaos
Member
Sweet, I was hoping for a late 2016 update and wondering if it could match the iterative consoles.
The impressive thing about the original was the long term tests, people thought optimizing for consoles would make the old potato masher fall away, but it held up almost exactly to them through its entire run. Hope he keeps posting updates with both.
The impressive thing about the original was the long term tests, people thought optimizing for consoles would make the old potato masher fall away, but it held up almost exactly to them through its entire run. Hope he keeps posting updates with both.
Lister
Banned
Time I spent "tinkering" with the Witcher 3: 5 minutes.
Time I saved not being stuck behind MINUTE and a HALF+ load times if I were playing on a PS4: HOURS.
Time I didn't have to wait for a patch that made the frame rate go above 20 when in marshes, when using explding weapons, when in cities: ~6 months.
Time I won't have to wait for a patch for my more powerful hardware to make the game run and look better from here until the day I die: Infinite, because that patch isn't coming to the Pro.
Value of playing the game at 60 FPS at gorgeous 3440x1440p ultra wide and with some really cool mods with 5-20 second load times: priceless.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
if exclusives are not the decisive factor. The title he was going to play is on both platforms.
Serious Sam
Member
So are you saying your 1000-2000$ PC outperforms a PS4 and PS4 Pro. I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked. FYI, you completely missed the point of this thread.
Lister
Banned
$800 dollar PC then. I upgraded my GPU now though
My point is, the equation isn't just about what's cheapest.The moment you show that you can do console like gaming at near the price, console gamers have heart attacks and start with the whole "Can it play X game that isn't evenout yet and could be garbage!?" And the "Angular graphics, too realistic, soap opera, whatever it is PC's can do that consoles can't that they need to downplay".
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Why are these threads always full of people checking their brains at the door? PC price discussions always make people lose their minds.
The video was super clear on why they tested what they did and why they priced out the PC as an upgrade, not a new build. The results are very promising and directly put to bed the "budget pcs are a waste of time" meme and yet we still see it here.
Get your head out of the platform wars bullshit for five minutes, ffs
Lister
Banned
Why do I get the feeling that if I jumpe dinto a PS4 Pro thread and said "Cool, but can it play Total War Warhammer, FTL, or Civ VI", I would get banned. Probably by Modbot too.
LordRaptor
Member
If that's your criteria for a games machine, why even bother clicking this topic?
Your mind was long ago decided for you.
e:
Gonna be worse in... what, 12 months? 18 months? time when that same comparison falls even harder in the PCs favour as 1060s are half the price and the next wave of midranges arrive.
Lister
Banned
That's the point of the thread, yes. Budget Pc gaming is awesome. It's not this dumb thing. There's a lot of value there vs consoles. Your personal preference might point you elsewhere in the end, but there's no denying that.
'casue he needs to shitpost. That's why.