Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Cheers, will give that a go.
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NextGen Wheels peripherals PS4 and Xbox One Thread: NeoGaf Wheel Club Updates in OP
- Thread starter amar212
- Start date
metareferential
Member
Has anyone tried the project cars-supported wheels on other ps4 games? Like DC?
The non-official wheels (like my Fanatec GT2) are supported on a game-by-game basis, so unless support is overtly stated then it's unlikely to work. My GT2 doesn't work with Driveclub.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
So how long before somebody knocks up an adapter for the PS4 to disguise the G27 as a G29?
Hoping that Titan One will do it, but who knows when/if that will happen?
Once the PS4 authentication code is reverse-engineered.
Will. Not. Happen.
Simple OS update can render all such devices obsolete with 1 line of code.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
-deleted-
soundscream
Member
To everyone who is waiting on G25/27 support it might be a good idea to start saving $10-20 a month so you can afford a wheel when GT7 comes out. I would have been doing that if I couldn't afford one and learned that it wasn't going to be supported out of the gate.
So, do you predict 2016 or 2017 release with proposed savings plan?
Nah, saving for a Bodnar.
soundscream
Member
So, do you predict 2016 or 2017 release with proposed savings plan?
Like I said I would have already started saving if I was a person of limited funds so I would have been at $240-480 now
Fall 2016, it has to be........right
And lets say Jesus came back touches your PS4 and your G25/27 works, you would have had all that money saved up for games and such. Maybe even enouph to join the darkside and buy an XB1.......maybe get a little Forza side action? All are welcome to stroke the beard.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Just picked up my first wheel in a long while. A 300rs for PC and a bit of PS4. I'll be honest, I'm really disappointed. Felt rubbish in pcars. Stupidly heavy, no feeling and just gimmicky. Couldn't feel a single hint of wheels locking under breaking, wheel wrenched from my hands when trying to straighten up after applying more than one turn. Just didn't feel like a real performance car at all. Reading around it seems like I have a LOT OF tinkering to do. Wheel profile settings, global game settings, individual car settings. I'm sure I'll love it eventually but ffs, I've already spent so long tweaking graphics/controller options.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Using the bManiac FFB settings from the pCars boards. MUCH happier with the FFB now, feels really good.
soundscream
Member
Don't judge it by PC you have to tinker with it in order for it to be decent. Most games you will probably be good out of the gate.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Yeah, pCars just doesn't seem to be tuned correctly at all out of the box. Absolutely loving it now.
Any idea why most people suggest to drop several of the gain values down to 0% in the Thrustmaster control panel? Isn't that just blocking various signals from the game to the driver??
ISR for example suggest;
Force: 75
Constant 100
Periodic 100
Spring 0
Damping 5
soundscream
Member
Summary? I can't really watch it, I'm at work.
He really didn't even try to sell us on those wheels did he lol.
It's mostly 10 minutes of waffling bullshit, but Vincent reckons:
- the press release where Logitech said it was pulling out of the console peripheral business actually just meant for legacy systems like the PS3.
- The G27 was a broken experience for console use because you couldn't navigate menus. So we put the Driving Force controls on the new wheel so now it's a 'complete experience'
- When quizzed about the actual inner workings of the wheel, he waffled about electronic stuff that needed updating.
- The shifter is not included with the base package as many cars (and people) don't use it and they don't want to burden those customers with the cost of the shifter.
- The G27 shifter doesn't work with the G29 wheel because it has buttons on it.
- The G29 is more expensive because it's a proper licenced wheel with all features whereas the G27 was a broken experience.
soundscream
Member
SolidSnakex
Member
So it's pretty much what some suspected, no G25/7 supports because they want more money. And then he tries to dump on Thrustmaster, since they're the primary wheel manufacturer for the PS4 right now. The T300/500 are very high quality.
$400 is insane because you're literally paying more for fewer features. This is just the G27 with extra buttons and no shifter.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Aaaaand Logitech can disappear from the market now.
gutterboy44
Member
Well, that sounds like the final nail in the coffin for racing on PS4 for me. The G27 will also mark the last ever Logitech, sorry "Logi" wheel I ever buy. They completely shot themselves in the foot for being the go to entry level model. Guess I will just be checking slickdeals now and again for some Thurstmasters mega sale. One can dream.
gutterboy44
Member
You should have heard what the G25 sounded like. I've ran chainsaws quieter.
Dave_6
Member
Wow, glad I never got one of those then LOL.
Thanks for the rundown, glad I didn't waste any time with it.
So it's fair to say they didn't make a convincing argument that it's any different from the G27 at all? Am I picking up the right vibes here? And ruled out G27 being compatible with PS4?
Fuck Logitech. Clear now that the G27 was a flash in the pan and not any indication they were serious about making good console peripherals. Maybe they'll make a DFGT-equivalent and perhaps then I'll consider buying one... when they go on sale.
Yup, fuck Logitech. The bullshit answers that guy gave were seriously weak. Broken experience with old wheels? Cars don't come with stick shift anymore? Old shifter has too many buttons? Just fuck off, you can shove the G29 up your ass.
This is basically their response to all G27 owners:
"Hey, you know that perfectly fine $300+ wheel you got 5 years ago? Well, fuck you and fuck that wheel, buy our new shit".
I'm sorry, but a racing wheel doesn't provide enough value to justify paying out of your ass for a new wheel every console generation.
Pretty much my thoughts on the subject. Saved me having to write it out. Oh...Fuck you Logitech.
Just as well that PC sim racing has improved in strides the last two or three years. We now have pCARS, AC, Game Stock Car/Stock Car Extreme, rF2, R3E, Dirt Rally and not to mention all the older games like RBR that still support the G27.
Weak excuses are weak. I can deal with having to go without wheel support for a relatively small selection of console games.
Quick question: Does the G27 work in Windows 10? If Logitech saw fit to dick legacy wheel owners around with that, THEN there would be hell to pay.
SolidSnakex
Member
The thing is that all of Logitech's GT racing wheels were great. Going all the way back to the Driving Force for GT3. What they all had in common was that they were completely unbeatable at their price points and they all felt high quality for that price point. They've now stepped up into the Thrustmaster/Fanatec category, but without doing anything to step up with higher quality components. All the impressions i've read suggest that the only differences with the actual wheel compared to the G27 is that it's slightly quieter and has a smaller deadzone. But aside from that the wheel is identical. And the pedals are the same aside from the brake feeling better.
I think Darin's impressions from ISR were telling. You could tell that he was disappointed, especially when bringing up its price in comparison to the T300. I just don't get what they're doing here. It's like they forgot everything that made people love their wheels. And it's really all about that price. If they'd just released this as a replacement for the G27 at the same or possibly a cheaper price, then I think people would've been just fine. But they've jacked up the price, removed the shifter, and refuse to add compatibility for their older wheels.
Oh, I didn't realise ISR did a review. I should actually hunt some down.
Edit: Huh.
<$300
- Dualshock 4 or XB1 controller life
- Logitech G27... but only on PC...
$300-400
- Thrustmaster TX (XB1) or T300RS (PS4)
~$650-750
- Thrustmaster TX or T300RS + Basher Boards CPX Adapter (use Fanatec pedals w/TM wheel) + Fanatec CSPv3 Pedals (Fanatec pedals are worth the upgrade)
$1300-1600
-Full Fanatec ClubSport set up (V2 base, V3 pedals+damper, SQ shifter, Universal Hub w/rim) (XB1/PS4)
>$1500
- You should probably get a real car and autocross it...
- Dualshock 4 or XB1 controller life
- Logitech G27... but only on PC...
$300-400
- Thrustmaster TX (XB1) or T300RS (PS4)
~$650-750
- Thrustmaster TX or T300RS + Basher Boards CPX Adapter (use Fanatec pedals w/TM wheel) + Fanatec CSPv3 Pedals (Fanatec pedals are worth the upgrade)
$1300-1600
-Full Fanatec ClubSport set up (V2 base, V3 pedals+damper, SQ shifter, Universal Hub w/rim) (XB1/PS4)
>$1500
- You should probably get a real car and autocross it...
soundscream
Member
I wonder if this rumored Thrustmaster T150 is going to be a viable lo cost option for FFB wheel.
Allegedly ~$220, 270-1080 rotation, compatible with thrustmaster ecosystem.
Allegedly ~$220, 270-1080 rotation, compatible with thrustmaster ecosystem.
SolidSnakex
Member
Oh, I didn't realise ISR did a review. I should actually hunt some down.
Edit: Huh.
They've done a couple videos so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhcW3Rfc6qM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6fJnvNYohQ
They're also planning to do a comparison to the T300, which I can't imagine is going to be a pretty sight. But that's the comparison that's going to be made because they put it in the same pricing bracket.
<$300
- Dualshock 4 or XB1 controller life
- Logitech G27... but only on PC...
$300-400
- Thrustmaster TX (XB1) or T300RS (PS4)
~$650-750
- Thrustmaster TX or T300RS + Basher Boards CPX Adapter (use Fanatec pedals w/TM wheel) + Fanatec CSPv3 Pedals (Fanatec pedals are worth the upgrade)
$1300-1600
-Full Fanatec ClubSport set up (V2 base, V3 pedals+damper, SQ shifter, Universal Hub w/rim) (XB1/PS4)
>$1500
- You should probably get a real car and autocross it...
It really just comes down to whichever console you're going to be mostly playing on. If you're going to be playing on the PS4, then i'd just say go grab the T500RS. As it's pretty much ready to go since it comes with top of the line pedals and wheel, no need to upgrade.
I wonder if this rumored Thrustmaster T150 is going to be a viable lo cost option for FFB wheel.
Allegedly ~$220, 270-1080 rotation, compatible with thrustmaster ecosystem.
The pedals are definitely a giveaway that it's going to be cheaper. Pretty smart move on their part to be putting out a high quality wheel that's more of an entry level pricing. There's really no competition in that market right now.
gutterboy44
Member
Argh, it makes me so mad. What the fuck is the point of switching to USB ports on consoles if you are just going to cram a bunch of proprietary bullshit behind them! I could use the first logitech wheel I got on PS2 with GT3 all the way through PS3 and on PC for every game the entire time. Now all of a sudden, nope, fuck that, let's arbitrarily draw a line in the sand. I blame this all on Apple and the smartphone market. It has made everyone numb to the two year planned obsolescence cycle for electronics that cost hundreds of dollars. Now everyone wants in on that. Why would Sony and MS want to do the most basic bitch support of old USB devices when they can write a few lines of code or install a new chip that allows them to license and sell all new crap. Man, I am this mad about this shit now, I don't know how I am going to feel once GT7 comes out and I won't be playing it.
Is my anger misplaced at Sony's roll in this too? I am not sure where it finally came down whether Logitech had no options for G27 compatibility or Sony fucked us over with the new "security chip" or whatever the hell it is. I feel like I want to review bomb the G29 and just keep saying, "No matter what this product page says, it only works with PS3!! The G29 wheel does not work with PS4!!" Give them a taste of their own medicine.
Is my anger misplaced at Sony's roll in this too? I am not sure where it finally came down whether Logitech had no options for G27 compatibility or Sony fucked us over with the new "security chip" or whatever the hell it is. I feel like I want to review bomb the G29 and just keep saying, "No matter what this product page says, it only works with PS3!! The G29 wheel does not work with PS4!!" Give them a taste of their own medicine.
Yep, it's a pisser. Lack of legacy support might generate new licencing money for MS and Sony but it's also cost them console sales. I know a lot of 360 and PS3 wheel owners who would have been day-one buyers of current-gen consoles but have now migrated to PC. Sony and MS haven't only lost their hardware sales, they've also lost thousands on games per person over the next five years. And none of those consumers will be coming back.
gutterboy44
Member
I know, iRacing and Assetto Corsa give me what I need on PC and my G27 still works great there. Despite my disappointment at GT5 and the utter turd that GT6 was, I know the second video of GT7 hits, the old GT fanboy in me will rear its ugly head and I will be bummed as fuck. Who knows, there could be 10 new FFB wheels on the market by the time GT7 comes out.
Got a problem with my Fanatec hardware and wonder if anyone can offer advice. Several times recently the paddle shifters on my GT2 have stopped working, or skip gears, or actually work in reverse. Around this time the brake pedal on my CSPs gets soft-locked on, either before driving or while driving. I had a recent hardware problem with my GT2 but took it apart and fixed it, but in the meantime picked up a spare GT2. I've swapped the spare in and the problem persists, so it's NOT the wheel hardware. I've also tried it in different racing games on different hardware (pCARS on PS4 and FM4 and Shift 2 on 360) and it's the same problem across the board. The only common hardware then is the CSPs, which might explain the soft-lock on the brakes, but not the shifting problem.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Make sure pedals and wheel's firmware are up to date. Take the covers off the hall sensors of the pedals and clean out any gunk or fluff trapped in there.
Apart from those take a look at the cables connecting the wheel to the pedals.
Oh the brake. Replacement load cells were £15 on ebay, might be worth picking one up, can always use as a back up if it isn't that.
Apart from those take a look at the cables connecting the wheel to the pedals.
Oh the brake. Replacement load cells were £15 on ebay, might be worth picking one up, can always use as a back up if it isn't that.
Cheers pal, will give those a go. It's surprising how many hardware 'failures' can be solved by cable replacement - I've had HDMI cables fail in the past. Always check the easiest/obvious things first..!
OK. I've had some fun and games with my Fanatec GT2 wheels and Clubsport pedals recently and some of you might benefit from my experience.
Firstly, a mechanical noise (kind of a grinding, kind of a rattling) developed in the wheel on startup when it auto-centres, and there was sometimes a similar sound during use. This prompted me to pick up a spare GT2 for a knock-down price from a user on the pCARS forums, as paranoia meant I was expecting a major failure of the hardware. Around this time I noticed that the right-hand paddle shifter felt a little sloppy. Shifting worked fine but the microswitch 'click' was sometimes absent and the paddle felt loose. A quick investigation revealed that one of the screws connecting the paddle to the wheel was missing, hence the sloppy feel to the shifting. I found the screw on the floor under my Playseat, but it wouldn't 'bite' when screwing it back. I had a suspicion what the problem was so decided to take the wheel apart and investigate (good instructions here for the GT3, but translates to the GT2 as well).
Sure enough a small brass internally-threaded boss had come loose (it's just an interference fit into a moulded plastic housing) and was rattling around inside the wheel (I didn't get a photo of this unfortunately). I retrieved and refitted this (with a dab of epoxy for good measure) and put everything back together again and re-attached the shifter paddle. Problem solved.
Then a week or so later I started getting odd shifting sequences - missed shifts, skipped gears, and even the left-hand paddle shifting up gears instead of down. The microswitch 'click' had also permanently disappeared. At exactly the same time my pedals started behaving oddly, with the brake getting randomly soft-locked on, not working at all, or going from progressive analogue to digital on/off. Because this coincided with the shifting problem I thought the two must be related. Updating the firmware didn't help, and neither did changing cables, cleaning contacts, or trying the wheel with different games on PS4, PS3, 360 and PC (I initially thought it might be a bug in the latest Project CARS patch). I swapped the wheel for my spare and the shifting issue went away, but the brake problem persisted. This at least told me that the two issues weren't related after all. I took the faulty wheel apart again and sure enough, the right-hand paddle microswitch had lost its 'click'. It still worked intermittently, but would sometimes stick (hence the left-hand shifter sometimes shifting up through the gears - try holding your right paddle 'on' then shifting with the left). Anyway, a bag of fifty replacements are on their way from China for the princely sum of £1 including delivery. No, I don't know how either.
The faulty microswitch that needs replacing (without its white rubber cover):
So, that's the wheel sorted, now back to the pedals. Everything now pointed to a failure of the load cell in the brake pedal. Fanatec charge €20 for these plus €20 shipping, which is ridiculous. A set of four load cells can be bought for £11 delivered on eBay with only the small white plug missing, and single load cells with the correct plug were available (but no longer it seems) from an eBay seller for £15 delivered. Then I remembered I had an old set of bathroom scales awaiting repair, and knew that four 50kg load cells in a bridge formation were commonly used in bathroom scales. I took the scales apart and sure enough, the load cells looked a close enough match for me to try one.
One corner of the bathroom scales with the load cell in place:
The main difference was that the Fanatec load cell (on the left in the photo below) had a raised node where the flat-ended brake piston pressed against it, whereas the one from the scales had a small cup indentation to accept a pointed 'spike'.
I started looking around my workshop for a ball bearing to sit in the cup so that the brake piston's pressure would be focused properly, but despite taking many mountain bike headsets and bottom brackets apart over the years I couldn't find any suitable bearings. What I did find was a large chain of the kind common in bath and basin plugs which uses 4mm balls, so gave one of these a go. It wouldn't be a strong as a proper ball bearing, but might prove the theory.
The faux-ball bearing between the piston and the cup of the 'new' load cell:
I initially wired up the replacement load cell in the same configuration as the old one, matching the three wires left-to-right with the existing plug. I cut the wires on the old load cell and simply twisted the wires together and wrapped them in insulation tape so that I could use the existing plug to the PCB, but it didn't work. I then tried simply matching the colours of the wires, even though the configuration was different, and to my amazement it worked!
I tested the brake for a few hours last night and it performed faultlessly, but as expected the small ball did get compressed (it's not as strong as a 'proper' ball bearing) so a bag of 200 stainless steel ones are on the way, again, £1 delivered from eBay. All that's left is to properly solder, insulate, and tidy the wires and replace the ball bearing and then the pedals should be like new. I also need to replace the shifter microswitch on the wheel when that arrives but my spare GT2 is filling that void nicely.
TLDR: DIY wheel repairs can be pretty straightforward and cheap, and you do not need to pay the extortionate prices charged by Fanatec for very cheap off-the-shelf components. And if you have an old set of bathroom scales lying around, harvest their organs.
Firstly, a mechanical noise (kind of a grinding, kind of a rattling) developed in the wheel on startup when it auto-centres, and there was sometimes a similar sound during use. This prompted me to pick up a spare GT2 for a knock-down price from a user on the pCARS forums, as paranoia meant I was expecting a major failure of the hardware. Around this time I noticed that the right-hand paddle shifter felt a little sloppy. Shifting worked fine but the microswitch 'click' was sometimes absent and the paddle felt loose. A quick investigation revealed that one of the screws connecting the paddle to the wheel was missing, hence the sloppy feel to the shifting. I found the screw on the floor under my Playseat, but it wouldn't 'bite' when screwing it back. I had a suspicion what the problem was so decided to take the wheel apart and investigate (good instructions here for the GT3, but translates to the GT2 as well).
Sure enough a small brass internally-threaded boss had come loose (it's just an interference fit into a moulded plastic housing) and was rattling around inside the wheel (I didn't get a photo of this unfortunately). I retrieved and refitted this (with a dab of epoxy for good measure) and put everything back together again and re-attached the shifter paddle. Problem solved.
Then a week or so later I started getting odd shifting sequences - missed shifts, skipped gears, and even the left-hand paddle shifting up gears instead of down. The microswitch 'click' had also permanently disappeared. At exactly the same time my pedals started behaving oddly, with the brake getting randomly soft-locked on, not working at all, or going from progressive analogue to digital on/off. Because this coincided with the shifting problem I thought the two must be related. Updating the firmware didn't help, and neither did changing cables, cleaning contacts, or trying the wheel with different games on PS4, PS3, 360 and PC (I initially thought it might be a bug in the latest Project CARS patch). I swapped the wheel for my spare and the shifting issue went away, but the brake problem persisted. This at least told me that the two issues weren't related after all. I took the faulty wheel apart again and sure enough, the right-hand paddle microswitch had lost its 'click'. It still worked intermittently, but would sometimes stick (hence the left-hand shifter sometimes shifting up through the gears - try holding your right paddle 'on' then shifting with the left). Anyway, a bag of fifty replacements are on their way from China for the princely sum of £1 including delivery. No, I don't know how either.
The faulty microswitch that needs replacing (without its white rubber cover):
So, that's the wheel sorted, now back to the pedals. Everything now pointed to a failure of the load cell in the brake pedal. Fanatec charge €20 for these plus €20 shipping, which is ridiculous. A set of four load cells can be bought for £11 delivered on eBay with only the small white plug missing, and single load cells with the correct plug were available (but no longer it seems) from an eBay seller for £15 delivered. Then I remembered I had an old set of bathroom scales awaiting repair, and knew that four 50kg load cells in a bridge formation were commonly used in bathroom scales. I took the scales apart and sure enough, the load cells looked a close enough match for me to try one.
One corner of the bathroom scales with the load cell in place:
The main difference was that the Fanatec load cell (on the left in the photo below) had a raised node where the flat-ended brake piston pressed against it, whereas the one from the scales had a small cup indentation to accept a pointed 'spike'.
I started looking around my workshop for a ball bearing to sit in the cup so that the brake piston's pressure would be focused properly, but despite taking many mountain bike headsets and bottom brackets apart over the years I couldn't find any suitable bearings. What I did find was a large chain of the kind common in bath and basin plugs which uses 4mm balls, so gave one of these a go. It wouldn't be a strong as a proper ball bearing, but might prove the theory.
The faux-ball bearing between the piston and the cup of the 'new' load cell:
I initially wired up the replacement load cell in the same configuration as the old one, matching the three wires left-to-right with the existing plug. I cut the wires on the old load cell and simply twisted the wires together and wrapped them in insulation tape so that I could use the existing plug to the PCB, but it didn't work. I then tried simply matching the colours of the wires, even though the configuration was different, and to my amazement it worked!
I tested the brake for a few hours last night and it performed faultlessly, but as expected the small ball did get compressed (it's not as strong as a 'proper' ball bearing) so a bag of 200 stainless steel ones are on the way, again, £1 delivered from eBay. All that's left is to properly solder, insulate, and tidy the wires and replace the ball bearing and then the pedals should be like new. I also need to replace the shifter microswitch on the wheel when that arrives but my spare GT2 is filling that void nicely.
TLDR: DIY wheel repairs can be pretty straightforward and cheap, and you do not need to pay the extortionate prices charged by Fanatec for very cheap off-the-shelf components. And if you have an old set of bathroom scales lying around, harvest their organs.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Great work dude.
Extra satisfying when saving some money too.
Extra satisfying when saving some money too.