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Shin'en: Wii U is the most powerful console, modern tech, lots of potential

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W

wsippel

Banned
AzaK said:
Ya, or maybe Nintendo will use Bayonetta 2 as a showcase and work with Platinum to get it fully pushing the system.
Click to expand...
Doubt it. Platinum's games were never technical marvels. I think Linzner is right, it'll probably be up to Retro or EAD to show what the system can really do. Or maybe Monolith.
 
D

Daschysta

Member
wsippel said:
Doubt it. Platinum's games were never technical marvels. I think Linzner is right, it'll probably be up to Retro or EAD to show what the system can really do. Or maybe Monolith.
Click to expand...

Platinum does have Nintendo staff helping them finish the game, I don't think it unlikely that it will at the very least look visually superior to Bayo 1. But yes, they aren't the studio to actually push the Wii-U.

The 3rd parties I would expect that from are maybe Mistwalker, Capcom, Squenix, or perhaps Shi'nen.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I agree that the Wii U is the most powerful console, and there's lots of potential to work with it.

However, Shin'en also has a vested interest here. As a company, they've made a conscious decision to exclusively develop titles for Nintendo systems. They do this whether they're powerful systems or weak systems (they like the challenge, being a demo-scene team, of working with hardware restrictions). I've never heard them articulate why they chose Nintendo, whether it's out of personal preference or if they feel like they can carve out a niche there, similar to Renegade Kid, or if they just like dealing with Nintendo, or all three. Who knows.

So in the event that there was a critical perspective to be had about the Wii U's hardware positioning, I would not expect it to come from Shin'en.
 
G

GDGF

Soothsayer
I'm betting on Capcom or Retro to give us that first graphical killer app.

(although Shinen could give us something absolutely mindblowing first if they're fast enough)
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
wsippel said:
Doubt it. Platinum's games were never technical marvels. I think Linzner is right, it'll probably be up to Retro or EAD to show what the system can really do. Or maybe Monolith.
Click to expand...

Hmm... Vanquish is pretty impressive to me. It runs at a rock solid 30fps with no dips, but in exchange it pushes huge views, what looks like a lot of geometry and a crapload of stuff going on at once. Plus good looking lighting. And really good bullet time effects.

Bayonetta sacrifices some stuff, mainly background complexity, to maintain a nearly perfect 60fps on the 360.
 
E

Endo Punk

Member
It may be more powerful under the hood but it will prob take 2-3 years before we really see games that showcase this.
 
H

H_Prestige

Banned
Until I start seeing wii u games that clearly look a cut above what ps3/360 are capable of, then any advantage the hardware has is ultimately meaningless and won't be obvious to the end user.
 
C

ColdBlooder

Banned
GDGF said:
I'm betting on Capcom or Retro to give us that first graphical killer app.

(although Shinen could give us something absolutely mindblowing first if they're fast enough)
Click to expand...

You propably missed this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=494294&highlight=nano+assault

THIS is Shin'ens Wii U game:

nano_wiiu_1_o7iud.jpg


nano_wiiu_3xtdto.jpg


nano_wiiu_4lhe6m.jpg


Taken from the trailer you find in the thread!

And make sure you get the 60fps trailer from Shin'ens Website. It looks even better in motion!
 
XtremeXpider

XtremeXpider

Member
Projectjustice said:
Its pretty outrages really. Everyone around here has really selective memory. Those PS360 launch titles wereny really blowing anyone away.
Click to expand...

PGR3 and Kameo was really impressive at launch.

[
ColdBlooder said:
You propably missed this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=494294&highlight=nano+assault

THIS is Shin'ens Wii U game:

nano_wiiu_1_o7iud.jpg


nano_wiiu_3xtdto.jpg


nano_wiiu_4lhe6m.jpg


Taken from the trailer you find in the thread!
Click to expand...

Not really impressive for a next gen system imo.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
Linkhero1 said:
Does this mean Nano Assault will be in 1080p/60fps?
Click to expand...
720p@60 I believe. But Shin'en outright stated that the game won't really do the hardware justice as it's a launch title and runs on their Wii/ 3DS engine if I remember correctly.


Stumpokapow said:
I agree that the Wii U is the most powerful console, and there's lots of potential to work with it.

However, Shin'en also has a vested interest here. As a company, they've made a conscious decision to exclusively develop titles for Nintendo systems. They do this whether they're powerful systems or weak systems (they like the challenge, being a demo-scene team, of working with hardware restrictions). I've never heard them articulate why they chose Nintendo, whether it's out of personal preference or if they feel like they can carve out a niche there, similar to Renegade Kid, or if they just like dealing with Nintendo, or all three. Who knows.

So in the event that there was a critical perspective to be had about the Wii U's hardware positioning, I would not expect it to come from Shin'en.
Click to expand...
Might be a German thing. Same mindset as NG, Denaris or RedSpot. Still, there's little doubt that Shin'en is an extremely capable team when it comes to tech - much more so than Renegade Kid or WayForward for example. They always try to push any hardware as far as it will go.
 
L

Linkhero1

Member
Fair enough. Would have been nice if they pushed the hardware, but making launch is probably more important for them. I will definitely support them.
 
D

Daschysta

Member
XtremeXpider said:
PGR3 and Kameo was really impressive at launch.

[

Not really impressive for a next gen system imo.
Click to expand...

They were, but by the same token, both have been surpassed easily by later games.

The Wii-U is running ports of late generation Ps360 games like AC3, which presumably doesn't take advantages of the modern features of the GPU, and doesn't attempt to really add anything more visually than what is on the other two. Games that make an effort to take advantage of the Wii-U should look noticeably better. Not only is it more powerful in raw terms many of the graphical effects shouldn't tax the hardware to the same degree due to not having to "fake" the effects thanks to being able to apply visual techniques holistically thanks to the more modern GPU etc...

Obviously ports from the previous gen are going to look much better on a system like 360 following the xbox, there was not only a much larger performance bump, there was also a resolution increase, not the case here, devs will have to make a game that utilizes what the Wii-U has to offer to see the gains. Even stuff like Zombi-U and Pikmin 3 began development on older hardware, wait until some ground up stuff pops up from devs with a budget.
 
C

ColdBlooder

Banned
General question for guys in this thread

IF (in theory) CoD WOULD be 1080p native. what would you think of the Wii U then?

Please keep it at an actual discussion...

I think CoD its 720p max. though
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
ColdBlooder said:
Thats an eShop title...
Click to expand...

I would say that if you pick Super Stardust HD/3D as a point of reference (also 1080p, 60fps, 60fps in 3D mode, launch PSN title on PS3) what you'd see is that Nano Assault looks better than SSHD/3D but not really 5 years better, which is pretty much the most accurate assessment possible of the Wii U's capabilities, right?
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Stumpokapow said:
I would say that if you pick Super Stardust HD/3D as a point of reference (also 1080p, 60fps, 60fps in 3D mode, launch PSN title on PS3) what you'd see is that Nano Assault looks better than SSHD/3D but not really 5 years better, which is pretty much the most accurate assessment possible of the Wii U's capabilities, right?
Click to expand...
I was just about to mention this regarding Super Stardust.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
GDGF said:
No I've seen it. I guess I was thinking something bigger in scope. This looks great, but I want to see something greater from them.
Click to expand...
Won't ever happen. The studio is tiny and still follows the oldschool demoscene approach, which makes it nearly impossible to grow: Everyone at the company can do anything. Linzner is CEO, producer, director, lead programmer, artist and writes most of the soundtracks for example. They have ten guys or something and usually work on several titles simultaneously. And they bankroll each and every project they do themselves because they want complete creative freedom.
 
XtremeXpider

XtremeXpider

Member
Daschysta said:
They were, but by the same token, both have been surpassed easily by later games.

The Wii-U is running ports of late generation Ps360 games like AC3, which presumably doesn't take advantages of the modern features of the GPU, and doesn't attempt to really add anything more visually than what is on the other two. Games that make an effort to take advantage of the Wii-U should look noticeably better. Not only is it more powerful in raw terms many of the graphical effects shouldn't tax the hardware to the same degree due to not having to "fake" the effects thanks to being able to apply visual techniques holistically thanks to the more modern GPU etc...

Obviously ports from the previous gen are going to look much better on a system like 360 following the xbox, there was not only a much larger performance bump, there was also a resolution increase, not the case here, devs will have to make a game that utilizes what the Wii-U has to offer to see the gains. Even stuff like Zombi-U and Pikmin 3 began development on older hardware, wait until some ground up stuff pops up from devs with a budget.
Click to expand...

Xbox/PS2 ports on Xbox 360 was better looking than original versions, better framerate, more resolution, better textures and effects like some EA ports.

but ok, current gen ports don't take any advantage from Wii U hardware, but, where are the games taking that advantages?
 
C

ColdBlooder

Banned
Stumpokapow said:
I would say that if you pick Super Stardust HD/3D as a point of reference (also 1080p, 60fps, 60fps in 3D mode, launch PSN title on PS3) what you'd see is that Nano Assault looks better than SSHD/3D but not really 5 years better, which is pretty much the most accurate assessment possible of the Wii U's capabilities, right?
Click to expand...

Yes but only if you also take wsippels first post in this thread into account:

wsippel said:
Well, the important bits are that the tech is more advanced and superior, so it's not "2006"/ "basically last-gen" tech as some people love to claim, and the often overlooked fact that it's not just about raw computational performance. You can do things on Wii U that would be prohibitive or outright impossible on PS3 and 360 not due to the system being more powerful, but simply because it's much more modern - but you most likely won't see that at launch because it requires different approaches. The "X times/ Y percent faster" stuff doesn't really work.
Click to expand...
 
C

ColdBlooder

Banned
XtremeXpider said:
Xbox/PS2 ports on Xbox 360 was better looking than original versions, better framerate, more resolution, better textures and effects like some EA ports.

but ok, current gen ports don't take any advantage from Wii U hardware, but, where are the games taking that advantages?
Click to expand...

Yes you are starting to get it :D

Maybe because developing in HD needs more time. Nintendo maybe wasn´t ready to show off the next 3D Mario, or Retros game.

Fact is almost every game that is announced can easily be traced back to either the PS360 or Wii. Even exclusives like ZombiU Or Lego City had PS360 origins.
 
P

Projectjustice

Banned
XtremeXpider said:
Xbox/PS2 ports on Xbox 360 was better looking than original versions, better framerate, more resolution, better textures and effects like some EA ports.
Click to expand...

Better graphics came by default due to the switch to HDTVs and higher resolution games. Framerate has stayed the same.

but ok, current gen ports don't take any advantage from Wii U hardware, but, where are the games taking that advantages?
Click to expand...

They are being made as we speak.
 
G

GDGF

Soothsayer
Stumpokapow said:
I would say that if you pick Super Stardust HD/3D as a point of reference (also 1080p, 60fps, 60fps in 3D mode, launch PSN title on PS3) what you'd see is that Nano Assault looks better than SSHD/3D but not really 5 years better, which is pretty much the most accurate assessment possible of the Wii U's capabilities, right?
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIsbQgZ13AA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QEFqno7UAk


Yep. I don't know how many "years" of advancement it would quantify to, but there is a noticeable difference in visual quality there.

wsippel said:
Won't ever happen. The studio is tiny and still follows the oldschool demoscene approach, which makes it nearly impossible to grow: Everyone at the company can do anything. Linzner is CEO, producer, director, lead programmer, artist and writes most of the soundtracks for example. They have ten guys or something and usually work on several titles simultaneously. And they bankroll each and every project they do themselves because they want complete creative freedom.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. When I say greater in scope I just mean something that isn't essentially an HD version of one of their games on a previous platform. I'd be happy with a shooter built with the Wii U in mind from the beginning. Graphically it would be mind blowing all the same.
 
BasilZero

BasilZero

Member
Of course its more powerful....if it wasnt, that would be a disappointment, now will it be more powerful than the next PS/Xbox...doubt it, but will it be able to compete with the next systems, maybe. Too early to judge.
 
O

Oemenia

Banned
Daschysta said:
Not really, then again, this isn't really news at all. The Wii-U is obviously more powerful than then other 2 consoles, and it obviously uses much, much newer tech. Noone of any repute has claimed the system as a whole isn't more powerful than current gen, so there really isn't any controversy in that regard. The controversy comes from people not privy to any inside info claiming that the Wii-U isn't more powerful based on ports or games not meant to be graphical showcases from the launch window.

We know two things for certain.

The Wii-U is more powerful than current gen. The Wii-U is not as great of a leap in terms of raw power as the traditional generational gap over the previous generation.

Thus, as there isn't a great resolution bump, a new dimension, or massively superior capability it stands to reason that a port, or a game that doesn't push the system wouldn't look heads and shoulders superior to the 2 last gen HD consoles, especially since they've had years to mature. That does not mean, however, that software meant to push the hardware won't look noticeably superior to the offerings on the X-Box 360 and the Playstation 3. It isn't so much more powerful that a port is going to look way better at first glance just by virtue of being on the newer hardware, but I'm quite certain that once Nintendo's own flagship games, as well as 3rd party exclusives not rushed for launch or started on older hardware start to roll out, the Wii-U games will be on a whole, noticeably visually superior. What is weird, is that that is somehow a controversial belief, it should be obvious that more modern and capable hardware would outperform the older, less capable machines. Seems like commons sense.
Click to expand...
I actually think that the WiiU hardware is very sound since its got a great modern GPU and a healthy amount of RAM.

Even if the CPU isnt all that great, what I was highlighting was how the WiiU sympathizers were bashing Tekken's Harada only for his statements to be 100% right. Now the news is positive and this guy here is a saint. Had not Bayonetta 2 gone to WiiU, it wouldve been another 'generic HD gaem!'

JordanN said:
People who are saying "yeah, it was so obvious" are completely in denial of this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468841
Click to expand...

Hey beats denying that Nintendo decided to go cheap on the hardware again (back in E3 2011, the hard was the shit!).
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
wsippel said:
Most 360 launch games looked like ass. Some even performed worse than their Xbox 1 counterparts. Unlike MS, Nintendo doesn't have any games even meant to be showcases at launch. And unlike Sony, Nintendo doesn't lie to their customers by selling offline rendered CG videos as "ingame footage".
Click to expand...

No... Unless you are comparing them to what we have now.
 
XtremeXpider

XtremeXpider

Member
ColdBlooder said:
Yes you are starting to get it :D

Maybe because developing in HD needs more time. Nintendo maybe wasn´t ready to show off the next 3D Mario, or Retros game.

Fact is almost every game that is announced can easily be traced back to either the PS360 or Wii. Even exclusives like ZombiU Or Lego City had PS360 origins.
Click to expand...

But PS2/Xbox/GC ports has the same or less development time, sd to hd, single core to multicore cpu, Kameo and PDZ was born as Xbox games, same situation (or even worse) than Wii U, but different results.

Nobody is denying that Wii U is more powerful than PS360, but the ask is "how much"
 
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