ColdBlooder
Banned
The power gap Wii U vs PS360 is way bigger than Wii too GC
GC to Wii powerincrease was a whopping 1.5x because Wii used the exact same chips(!) with 1.5x higher clockspeed...
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Shin'en: Wii U is the most powerful console, modern tech, lots of potential
- Thread starter wsippel
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The power gap Wii U vs PS360 is way bigger than Wii too GC
GC to Wii powerincrease was a whopping 1.5x because Wii used the exact same chips(!) with 1.5x higher clockspeed...
IrishNinja
Member
yup, nothing shows hardware potential like launch titles, as seen by genji days of the blade
Gemüsepizza;43011993 said:
The difference in just GPU power between Wii's GPU (12GFLOPs) and 360's GPU (240GFLOPs)
For PS4 and XB3 to outpace the 360 (much less the Wii U, that is rumored to have ~600GFLOPs) they would need to have 4.8TFLOPs, which is probably the entire power of HD8970 (a card that hasn't even released yet, with a TDP likely around 300watts and a cost of at least $500)
The Xbox had much more raw hardware power than the PS2. (21GFLOPs vs 6GFLOPs, 64MB ram vs 32MB ram, the list does go on here...)
Wii U's GPU is comparable to DX11.
Even DX10.1 vs DX11 hardware has very little difference, especially if you use OpenGL, stepping outside of DX leaves the HD4000 and later series on a nearly identical feature set... DX11.1 btw is a VERY small update.
Anyways as you can see, your post was really poorly worded. Wii U will be the weakest of the next gen consoles and that difference will be noticeable but it will also be negligible.
DaSorcerer7
Member
True.. reminds me of the X360's xbox 1.5 period.
Gemüsepizza
Member
This is another point. Reducing graphics is one thing, but what happens if you have to change gameplay because of less powerful hardware? We have already seen this on current gen, where Battlefield 3 has much less players on Xbox 360 and PS3 then on PC. We may see this a lot more next gen.
Gemüsepizza
Member
You can't just multiply numbers like that.
...and this hardware was not fully utilized, because the target platform was not the Xbox. It will be different with next gen, developers will target the PS4 and Xbox 720.
We don't know that yet, and those features won't help the Wii U when devs have to port a game which already is at 720p and 30fps on the PS4/Xbox 720.
Like I said, of course it is possible to fake some DX11 effects on less powerful hardware, but will they do this? This costs a lot of ressources (time/money).
I am afraid that won't be true. A game which already runs at 720p and 30fps on PS4/Xbox 720 will look a lot worse on the Wii U. (vice versa this means Wii U will profit if games run at 1080p/60fps on PS4/Xbox 720, because the differences won't be as noticeable).
Edit: Sorry for double post.
Backfoggen
Banned
How do you know this?
Like you say, it still is an increase. So I don't see the stupidity of the 'next gen = more power' assumption you mentioned.
Also, isn't the power increase compared to PS360 hardware rumoured to be a whopping 1.5x - 2x as well?
GhostTrick
Banned
M°°nblade;43012621 said:
It is, but with modern tech.
Wii was 1.5x over Gamecube... and same component, so same technology, and lack of modern shaders etc...
IMO, the only way to see those improvements, you know, modern architecture and DX10.1-DX11 equivalent will be with exclusive games... and not the one from launch window.
I think a heavy use of those modern tech could lead to clearly better looking games than 360/PS3, even if the raw gap power will be small.
developers have directly compared them...
Also to the other guy, it's funny that you say "we don't know this" but then you tell us the future.
The difference between the wiiu-ps4/nextbox was said to be bigger than the dreamcast-xbox by lherre who is a developer,that's a pretty huge gap in performance.
sure, but Nintendo arguably has a limited window to show improvement, assuming MS and Sony will be showing their next-gen offerings next year.
Of course I hope most people realise there will be improvements over these titles, but personally I think Nintendo are damn stupid not to have put some time/effort/money into a 'pretty' game. Launching with a 2D mario is insane IMO. Of course gameplay matters, but they are not doing themselves any favours in terms of comparisons with PS3/360 when thats all they have to show.
Even a teaser from Retro would have been nice. Or tech demos even. Right now it feels like Nintendo don't give a shit about the machine, so how are we and third parties supposed to?
specialguy
Banned
yep, graphics matter again.
Chû Totoro
Member
when I read some Wii-U topics not that obvious for some people here...
metalslimer
Member
This was never said....
Anyway, I'm sure the same arguments have been rehashed to death in terms of PS4/720 coming out and then no one caring about Wii U, but I'm just happy to hear there is some juice in the Wii U. Nintendo games are going to look amazing even with the jump there is over the PS3/360 and the exclusives like Bayonetta 2 are going to be great.
Yeah man, I totally respect the graphics. Maybe you could actually point out some members who have said in the past graphics don't matter ever ever ever ever and now are jumping to the moon that Wii U will have a slight/decent increase over the current two instead of trying to point out your imaginary hypocrisy.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42110464&postcount=2662
You can't have subjective personal opinions about power when the spec sheet is in front of you and yeah power didn't help the N64 or the gamecube to gain significant third party support so i doubt it'll help the wiiu.
Backfoggen
Banned
You're going to have to be more specific than that.
metalslimer
Member
He says it's his opinion right in the freaking post. There are lot of factors that play into this besides comparing some data on a spec sheet, not to mention the final dev kits on the PS4/720 have not been shipped out yet. There probably will be a bigger gap based on leaked specs, but don't try to turn an opinion into complete fact.
Oh he was right there for like half this year in every Wii U topic with the anonymous developers claiming Wii U was weaker than the PS3/360
GhostTrick
Banned
No one said they doesnt matter, or they are important.
But sometimes, you have to make things clear. I know Wii U will not be much more powerfull than Xbox360 or PS3, but you cant say it is less powerfull or it wont make better things. And thats what some people are claiming.
not_so_special
Banned
zombieu is a early port?
He's a developer and his personal opinion matters much more here and he seems to know the specs of all the next gen consoles.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
or, you know, the 1080P/60fps Ridge Racer 7... but hey! I agree with your point fundamentally, but i don't think cherry picking Genji out the pack proves much.
As per Mr Klaw - for all this talk of the machine being so much better, there's nothing remotely showing it at launch. Modern tech means little, results are what matters - and i'm sure we'll see them - just so far, nothing "kills" what X360/PS3 are doing and , unfortunately, it doesn't matter what they did at launch - WiiU is up against those two machines output -now-
Nintendo have a lot of work to do.
metalslimer
Member
He knows the Wii U specs, and he knew the current dev kit specs of the other two. My entire point was that a non subjective statement could not be made until a developer could play around with all three in their final states.
I doubt even see many titles from Nintendo that look even better than Uncharted 3. It's just not their focus. With their art direction, they'll look beautiful, but then again Wii titles looked beautiful with their art direction. Nintendo is not going to enter budget wars with their games. Retro's game and the next Zelda will probably be too of their only games to push boundaries. And those won't be out until the other two come out.
StreetsAhead
Member
Zombi U began life as a PS360 title, Killer Rabbids From Outer Space, before being switched over to Wii U as Killer Freaks From Outer Space.
GhostTrick
Banned
ZombiU is a launch game that had some developpement problems.
In 2011, it was Killer Freaks from Outer Space. In one year, it has changed gameplay, settings, monster, story etc etc...
Also, it was an Xbox 360 game at first.
Well, as Linzner said, getting the most out of the system will require new approaches (which basically rules out early ports and first generation software in general) and capable developers. I agree that Nintendo should have shown something more flashy, though. A glimpse at what's possible. We'll see, maybe they'll do just that in the next few weeks. As unpredictable as Nintendo is, it's impossible to tell.
MadeInBeats
Banned
Wsipple, I thought the WiiU Members Association agreed this wouldn't be threaded during our Early October Summit which included bockwurst and schnitzel horderves!
✔ "Well it should be better than 2006 tech"
✔ "Yeah, slightly more powerful (on-par)"
✔ "Well, they do have a WiiU game to sell"
✔ "Your penis maybe bigger than mine now, but *PS4* cough *X720* cough"
I wonder this but didn't this have time in development before the Wii U also? Platinum have also said that they do all their development on PCs, so will that have an effect? Or, would they break that rule and use Cafe as lead dev; have they done that with P-100? Bit of a minefield to come to a conclusion on.
✔ "Well it should be better than 2006 tech"
✔ "Yeah, slightly more powerful (on-par)"
✔ "Well, they do have a WiiU game to sell"
✔ "Your penis maybe bigger than mine now, but *PS4* cough *X720* cough"
I wonder this but didn't this have time in development before the Wii U also? Platinum have also said that they do all their development on PCs, so will that have an effect? Or, would they break that rule and use Cafe as lead dev; have they done that with P-100? Bit of a minefield to come to a conclusion on.
From what I read, the Wii-Us GPU isn't 600GFLOPs.
Also you have your flop counts wrong for the ps2. Not that flop counts mattered much last Gen. Thought a developer said all this already in another thread.
I didn't initially want to, but the "19x faster" bullshit thread made me change my mind. Mostly because I wanted to point out that the X times/ Y percent faster shit needs to stop, even though I knew it would be futile.
Windom Earle
Member
Nintendo is to blame for this stupid discussion, they should have released the system with a technical impressive game to show the power and shut up the doubters. Amusing to see the typical defence force fill the gap after Pramath's ban. So much insecurity. Carry on kids...
GhostTrick
Banned
I do agree. Specs sheet are useless, most important are the game. And if Nintendo wanted to show that their console is more powerfull than Xbox360 or PS3, they should have shown games that proves it. (I do agree, but only on the fact they should have shown something impressive, the rest of your sentence is your own opinion)
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I would burst into laughter if someone was having this discussion in the midnight launch lines lol.
DaSorcerer7
Member
MadeInBeats
Banned
Nothing wrong with the Japanese Garden demo. Nintendo doesn't jump when NeoGAF says how high.
GhostTrick
Banned
Nothing wrong with the Japanese Garden demo. Nintendo doesn't jump when NeoGAF says how high.
Yep, Japanese Garden demo looks really good... now it would be better to see something as good, in games.
I would be stupid from Nintendo to play with complete open cards, while the other two hide there hands.
Yeah, but everything is pretty much set in stone by now, so there's no need to hold back any longer.
H_Prestige
Banned
This was also the common thought on GAF regarding the difference between PSP/DS and Vita/3DS.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
You'd be surprised how self-important many a gaffer consider themselves.
plagiarize
Banned
perceptually I think anyone not talking in flops, etc, would tell you that apparent gap between Vita and 3DS is smaller, even though it actually isn't in terms of raw power. DS games looked much worse in comparison to PSP games due it missing some fairly major capabilities. 3DS games don't look nearly as bad compared to Vita as it is capable of nice lighting, good texturing, AA, etc.
and i think we're in a position to predict similar things for the Wii U -> PS4 gap. whatever the raw power gap, the perceptual gap is likely to be a lot smaller. most of what makes Wii games look bad is garbage IQ and lack of modern effects rather than polycounts and what have you.
GhostTrick
Banned
And this was true. Vita/3DS gap was much more smaller than PSP/DS gap. Actually, some 3DS games are really nice looking. Games like Resident Evil Revelations or Dead or Alive Dimensions could be straight ported to Vita, they would have no shame to be on the machine because they looks good.
I don't know either, but stop making them please. Everyone.
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