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The Project Gotham Racing Appreciation Thread

Xun

Member
This isn't really news, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

Are you making sequels to any of the games you made at Bizarre Creations?

See "What are you working on".

What are you working on?

When we announce what we are developing this will show up in the main news page. We will also tweet and post on our Wall. Follow, Like or Bookmark us to catch our updates.

http://www.lucidgames.co.uk/faq.aspx

Now surely if they weren't doing anything Bizarre related they'd have said no?

Now I'm not suggesting they're working on PGR5, but who knows?
 

Shaneus

Member
This isn't really news, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.



http://www.lucidgames.co.uk/faq.aspx

Now surely if they weren't doing anything Bizarre related they'd have said no?

Now I'm not suggesting they're working on PGR5, but who knows?
More than likely Geometry Wars or possibly a sequel to Blood Stone. I'm not sure how IP works specifically, but I'd imagine it'd be a right cunt to get a license for any of their worthwhile older franchises. Activision with Geo Wars, Blur and Blood Stone and MS with PGR (though MS have a history of rehiring rebuilt companies to work on their old franchises, just look at Ruffian with Crackdown) and whoever published that rhythm game they worked on that was never big but still kinda fun.

Rather than that FAQ, this is far more eyebrow-raising (though that's not saying much, the FAQ doesn't really allude to anything much at all).
 

Xun

Member
More than likely Geometry Wars or possibly a sequel to Blood Stone. I'm not sure how IP works specifically, but I'd imagine it'd be a right cunt to get a license for any of their worthwhile older franchises. Activision with Geo Wars, Blur and Blood Stone and MS with PGR (though MS have a history of rehiring rebuilt companies to work on their old franchises, just look at Ruffian with Crackdown) and whoever published that rhythm game they worked on that was never big but still kinda fun.

Rather than that FAQ, this is far more eyebrow-raising (though that's not saying much, the FAQ doesn't really allude to anything much at all).
I highly doubt they'd want to work with Activision again, so that's why I don't think it'd be related to Geometry Wars/Blur/007.

It really wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft has got them working on PGR5 (perhaps with other teams), even despite Forza Horizon.
 

TJP

Member
I feel I'm among friends here and would like to post my story of enjoyment Bizarre Creations have given me through the years.

<snip>

Bizarre, I just want to say, it's been a pleasure and I wish you guys all the best whatever you're doing. You've bought tonnes of enjoyment to gamers everywhere and your love of games has never gone unnoticed. Kudos to you.
What a splendid post! Gen X's excellent post mirrors my thoughts on all the Bizarre Creations games. I spent too many hours playing F1 '97 during my Uni days, marvelling at the damage modelling, Murray Walker's commentary and driving some of the most crazy fantasy tracks I'd ever seen. PGR 2 and 4 remain two of my all time favourite racing games and it's incredible that PGR 4 still holds its own graphically against games releasing now.

It's a fanasy but I'd be great if Lucid, HogRocket & Totem games all merged to reform Bizarre Creations. They can also reclaim Gareth Wilson from Sumo Games & Nick Wiswell from Turn10 too to get the "band back together".
 

addyb

Member
Picked up PGR4 earlier this week (£2.50) and Forza 4. And ive sunk more time into PGR4 so far.

I remember getting PGR3 on launch with my 360. It was the only time ive ever just got 1 game for a console launch but I absolutely loved it. I also had a brand new 720p projector and a 100" screen and it was mind blowing playing on that setup.

I'm not 100% sure on PGR4 yet. It feels a tad weird to play but then again I did have my 1st session on it straight after some forza4 so I just need to spend 1 night on it alone so I can get the vibe again.

Fantastic games though.
 

Shaneus

Member
Yeah, PGR4 can feel a bit odd if you're playing a few driving games one after the other, but for my money it still has my favourite physics/driving model of any I've played over the past few years. The closest I can think of that's come out recently is probably Driver SF.
 

mernst23

Member
God, I remember platinuming all the races/challenges in PGR2 to get the TVR (legit). No one online ever believed I did it since everyone cheated to get theirs. I always invited them to check my stats on every race afterwards but UK racers took the game so fucking seriously.

The bikes in 4 felt really clunky. In terms of gameplay experience, I always thought 2 > 1 > 3 > MSR > 4. Mostly because 4 had a terrible online community compared to 2 and 3. I liked rewards system in one a lot and 2 was even better. But 3 and 4 added the rank and the ability to skip over harder races to still unlock the best cars, which I didn't like because it motivated me to give up quicker on tough races and settle for gold.

Loved the game so much than gotham is part of my gamertag which I've had since like 03 now.
 

Shaneus

Member
I'm not going to argue (again) because it's all preference, but I really don't understand how people could put 4 on the bottom. At worst, it should be second behind 2... but that's it. It puts everything together so goddamned perfectly it's ridiculous. IMO of course, but if it's that low in the order of things, your opinion is wrong and you need to play it again.

Shit, I think I might just start a new profile with it again.
 

Shaneus

Member
Hope it's a spiritual successor to MSR/PGR.
They should call it Metropolis Street Racing / Project Gotham Racer:p
You know, normally I'd call you out because you quoted a post that's almost six months old (and that page hadn't been updated at all), but this sparks more than a little curiosity:
(I'm guessing the square thing is a winky face from iOS Twitter or something)
WeVQh.png

I'd have thought MS would figure they had enough on their plate (racing franchise-wise) with Horizon and FM, not to mention that Playground comes off as being more Bizarre than pretty much any other dev, but maybe not...


PS. Five year-old game:
Ql9h1.jpg

PA7gZ.jpg
 

Gen X

Trust no one. Eat steaks.
Since I made my post on the previous page I have picked up a replacement copy of PGR4 (Had my entire collection of 360 games and dvds stolen in 2009) for a low low price of free, brand new from JB Hifi.

It's a struggle playing from the start again trying to get Platinums after being so close, but I am interested to see if I still have some high ranked times in place or if they are beaten.
 

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
Such an amazing bloody game PGR4 was. 5 years old and i'm still noticing new effects and touches in the game.
 

mernst23

Member
I'm not going to argue (again) because it's all preference, but I really don't understand how people could put 4 on the bottom. At worst, it should be second behind 2... but that's it. It puts everything together so goddamned perfectly it's ridiculous. IMO of course, but if it's that low in the order of things, your opinion is wrong and you need to play it again.

Shit, I think I might just start a new profile with it again.

My ranking is more based on the gameplay experience. I don't think any of the games are bad, but the problem with four (and a slightly lesser extent 3) is that they branched off into that Gotham career mode which tried to forcibly make you play events and races that just seemed tedious. What I liked about 2 and 1 especially is that if you were in the mood to race or do kudos challenges; you could spend hours playing what you felt like playing and still feeling like you were progressing.

2 on the other hand was just so ahead of it's time in terms of the leaderboards and the ability to just straightout focus your efforts on certain races and the accomplishment of completing it. Four just didn't have the same challenge factor.
 

Shaneus

Member
Such an amazing bloody game PGR4 was. 5 years old and i'm still noticing new effects and touches in the game.
Like snow? And puddles/pools of water in the rain? I'm yet to see a racing game do either of those (at least, a non-rally one) as well as PGR4 did.
 

Jimrpg

Member
I'm not going to argue (again) because it's all preference, but I really don't understand how people could put 4 on the bottom. At worst, it should be second behind 2... but that's it. It puts everything together so goddamned perfectly it's ridiculous. IMO of course, but if it's that low in the order of things, your opinion is wrong and you need to play it again.

Shit, I think I might just start a new profile with it again.

I like PGR4 - it was pretty good, but PGR2 was the better 'package'. PGR4 just felt like bits and pieces thrown together to add onto PGR3. Also most of the early game feels like replaying through PGR3 again.

Also the design choices in the game were not good - there's a restart 'during' the race but there isn't after you finish for the career mode... the weather in the menus were really forced and the bikes kind of made the game look like jack of all trades master of none, even though they were fun to ride. Would have been MUCH better if they chose say 7 new cities instead of 5 new and 5 old... plus also bring back the track editor...

Again im not knocking the game - i really enjoyed it, but it could have been better. Also doesn't help that period of time was the start of the decline of typical racing games...
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
I like PGR4 - it was pretty good, but PGR2 was the better 'package'. PGR4 just felt like bits and pieces thrown together to add onto PGR3. Also most of the early game feels like replaying through PGR3 again.

Also the design choices in the game were not good - there's a restart 'during' the race but there isn't after you finish for the career mode... the weather in the menus were really forced and the bikes kind of made the game look like jack of all trades master of none, even though they were fun to ride. Would have been MUCH better if they chose say 7 new cities instead of 5 new and 5 old... plus also bring back the track editor...

Again im not knocking the game - i really enjoyed it, but it could have been better. Also doesn't help that period of time was the start of the decline of typical racing games...
What do you mean the weather in the menus was forced?

Bikes were definitely a misstep, but the arcade physics were still masterful. I was worried about them too leading up to release but it turned out that PGR4 had the best physics since PGR2; second best in the series. They were very refined and definitely not underdeveloped.

Also you can't just say making 7 new cities would be equivalent to 5 old and 5 new being included. The work involved in making 2 new cities far exceeds that of porting 5 old cities into a new game with (presumably) a modified engine. If anything, the resources that should have been reallocated would be that of putting in more new cars instead of adding bikes, but this was at a point where Bizarre felt they needed a new pull or marketing point to keep the franchise interesting (TBH even though us PGR fanatics love the franchise, it had become fairly stagnant for the broad consumer). Even still, PGR4 probably has the most eclectic car roster of any racing game, and for that I salute it.
 

Shaneus

Member
Agreed. And location "roster", too. Easily the best of any game I've played, circuit/touring car racer or street. The tech was incredible, too... I remember them saying the game streamed entire tracks from the disc rather than loading them from memory or to the HDD (which is why there were such detailed, numerous textures on the tracks) as well as being the first (as far as I know) to use the framebuffer-as-reflection map technique. At least, the first major developer to do so. Pretty sure that's the reason why good reflections weren't in FM3 but were in 4 (or 2-3, I can't quite remember... one had shitty reflections, the next had awesome ones). Even GT5 didn't do that.

It's a shame Blur felt a little stiff in that regard. Didn't feel bad by any means (and I still love the living hell out of it) but it was just a little *too* tight, I guess.
 

Sysgen

Member
My ranking is more based on the gameplay experience. I don't think any of the games are bad, but the problem with four (and a slightly lesser extent 3) is that they branched off into that Gotham career mode which tried to forcibly make you play events and races that just seemed tedious. What I liked about 2 and 1 especially is that if you were in the mood to race or do kudos challenges; you could spend hours playing what you felt like playing and still feeling like you were progressing.

2 on the other hand was just so ahead of it's time in terms of the leaderboards and the ability to just straightout focus your efforts on certain races and the accomplishment of completing it. Four just didn't have the same challenge factor.

Initially I was reading those that disagreed with you but having read your post you're 100% spot on. 4 was very good but the career mode sucked and the career achievements were meaningless since they were not broken down by difficulty.
 

Shaneus

Member
Yeah, I agree in that regard, I guess it just depends on the weight you give those features. I'm not one who really cares for career mode in driving games (unless it's heavily structured around it, like, say, F1)... sometimes I just feel like doing something very specific (snow around NY, rain in Tokyo etc.), other times I'd rather have the game pick something for me to do (like whatever the "championship" throws at me at any given time).

PGR4 does that in the best possible way. Career/medals etc. definitely could've been handled far better though, so if that's your thing I can understand why you'd put it lower in the ranks. But given my tendency to not finish games ever, something I don't have to progress through gradually with a definitive pass/fail marker that has a definitive end-goal (such as platinums etc.) is a definite winner in my book. Personally, at least.

And the fact that I *have* somewhat finish the game yet still come back to it weekly is a testament to how much fun the game is outside of the career/achievement portion of it. There's nothing more satisfying in any other driving game than hitting a corner at a perfect apex within centimetres of the barrier, then hearing that "perfect corner" kudos chime. So good.
 

Shaneus

Member
I fired up 3 only a short while ago and the driving model felt a little off to me. I think it errs more on the "realistic" side of things, where PGR4 is a bit looser in that regard. I guess.

Thinking about it (it's been a while since I've played 1 or 2) I think maybe PGR1/4 and 2/3 have the most similar driving models. I'd love to verify, but there's no way to play original Xbox games at their proper speed without digging out the original Xbox (why has no-one made an emulator for it yet! It should be easy!).
 
I've only played PGR 1 & 2.

Project Gotham Racing 2 is one of my most played games ever. I sunk over 600 hours into it, mostly online. That was one of nicest game communities, man. Everyone was just havin' fun and earnin' Kudos. I met so many fun people on there.

And since Blur was mentioned in the OP, I just want to throw out there that it's tied with MAG as my favorite game this gen. The online community of Blur really reminded me of the good times I had with PGR2.
 

Shaneus

Member
So, I was bored while GAF was down. My photo settings were clearly shit, which I didn't realise until I drastically changed the brightness and contrast:
sWKWT.jpg

QaJLk.jpg

Kr8c0.jpg

laALN.jpg

iqEl2.jpg

v4J6R.jpg

u8RZr.jpg


Seriously. Five year-old game. And the best 30fps motion blur I've ever seen in a game... like, they've actually based it on how regular television cameras handle blur so it looks (and feels) realistic and smooth.
 
As much as I love PGR4, I can't put it above PGR2 as my favourite in the series because of how they ruined the cone challenges. PGR2 also had the best selection of cities to race around: Edinburgh, Sydney, Chicago, Stockholm, Florence, Barcelona, Moscow and Hong Kong (I think that's all of them, lol).

Edit: Forgot about Paris and Long Beach DLC as well as the Nurburgring.

Edit 2: And Washington. D:
 

Afrikan

Member
So Sony is working on their own PGR type game?....is it suppose to be a PS4 launch title or something?

Things i wonder....

Would it use a modified Motorstorm engine. (Since Evolution is the dev right?)

Or maybe use Liverpool's F1CE engine....great looking and running 30fps title.

Will it be a 60fps title...if its next gen, you would think it would be mandatory.

Use modified GT6 engine made for PGR type racing.

Or is it going to use an all new engine made for next gen Motorstorm games.
 

Jamesways

Member
After having recently lost my profile I started over in both PGR3 and 4. I whipped through 3 in a matter of days. It's still one of my all time favorites, mostly due to nostalgia (first game on the 360, first time I really stuck with the cockpit view).

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the career in 4 and I just can't believe how good it looks still. I swear, on some stages, say a rainy Quebec, in certain cars, it looks so damn real.
What a fantastic game.

The handling is so frickin' fun in these. You can't help but smile when you play them.
 

addyb

Member
I fired up 3 only a short while ago and the driving model felt a little off to me. I think it errs more on the "realistic" side of things, where PGR4 is a bit looser in that regard. I guess.

Thinking about it (it's been a while since I've played 1 or 2) I think maybe PGR1/4 and 2/3 have the most similar driving models. I'd love to verify, but there's no way to play original Xbox games at their proper speed without digging out the original Xbox (why has no-one made an emulator for it yet! It should be easy!).

That's what I thought after I did my 1st race on PGR4. Definitely more arcade like feel to the handling. After a few races I had adapted though. It's actually great fun swapping between this and forza 4
 

Sysgen

Member
Saved one screen from PGR3 that I took in game because the detail is crazy and it's where I used to work (that tall white building was the Nynex building when I worked in it. Used to walk the Brooklyn bridge everyday.

62766323-0e0c-4c64-879f-799b7401fd9.jpg


Still beyond my comprehension how a studio with this kind of talent could be disbanded.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Here was me, looking forward to waxing lyrical about PGR3, when the one with Edinburgh and st Petersburg was pgr2! Got my numbers muddled up. PGR3 had that amazing cockpit mode and Vegas, right?

Edinburgh felt like I always imagined a city track should. None of that right angled corners nonsense, just lots of tight turns and narrow streets. Reminded me a bit of GTI club

Never really played much PGR4, sold my 360 around that time, but I've bought both 3&4 since rebuking a 360, so looking forward to spending some time with 4.


MS should definitely bring the series back for 720. It's had a nice long break, it's a game style perfectly suited to showing off a new platform, and it's a great series. They should ignore pgr4 sales, they must know their release timing with halo and forza would have contributed to its poor sales
 
The Lucid news would excite me a little bit, but I'm pretty sure Stephen Cakebread is part of Hogrocket now, and that's who's project I would have been excited for.
 
I fired up 3 only a short while ago and the driving model felt a little off to me. I think it errs more on the "realistic" side of things, where PGR4 is a bit looser in that regard. I guess.

Thinking about it (it's been a while since I've played 1 or 2) I think maybe PGR1/4 and 2/3 have the most similar driving models. I'd love to verify, but there's no way to play original Xbox games at their proper speed without digging out the original Xbox (why has no-one made an emulator for it yet! It should be easy!).

Yes, in an interview in EDGE magazine, the Bizarre guys (Martyn Chudley), mentioned that PGR3 had the most realistic driving model, with lots of appropriate understeer, but they were not allowed to continue in this direction (presumably to avoid competition with Forza). All in all, all PGR games were great, with PGR2 having the best online lobbies and community, PGR3 the best in-car view, and PGR4 the best environments and tournaments.

And, by the way, why does no racing game include online tournaments anymore? This was the big promise of PGR4 and Forza 3, but it seems to have been abandoned.
 

TheMan

Member
PGR2 was such a fantastic racing game...don't think i've sunk as many hours into a racing game since. never did beat all the challenges and such but i loved to zone out while driving on cotton tree drive or the 'ring. the driving model was the perfect blend of sim and arcade. I didn't get PGR3 until a couple of years ago but it didn't have the same magic, not by a long shot. still haven't picked up 4.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I like the handling in PGR 3. It's by no means a sim - still very arcadey, just perhaps the mix is more sim-y.
 

microtubule

Member
PGR2 was such a fantastic racing game...don't think i've sunk as many hours into a racing game since. never did beat all the challenges and such but i loved to zone out while driving on cotton tree drive or the 'ring. the driving model was the perfect blend of sim and arcade. I didn't get PGR3 until a couple of years ago but it didn't have the same magic, not by a long shot. still haven't picked up 4.

PGR2 was really amazing all around. I also agree about 3. Now PGR4, I felt was better than 3 but still missing a small amount of magic from 2 even though it had more features and improvements. You should still check it out as it's under 10 dollars new on AMZ.
 

Jibbed

Member
I don't care what anyone says, Blur is a fantastic game. Even more so when you get 3 mates on the couch and play 4-player splitscreen.
 

Du2andal

Banned
Project Gotham 2 and 4 absolutely belong in the pantheon of greatest racers ever. It is hard to believe that MS is seemingly willing to let this franchise fade into obscurity even as they push out Forza at breakneck pace.
 

TJP

Member
Great to see a few more posts in this thread. Love the new photos too.

If it wasn't for PGR, I wouldn't have bought an Xbox 360. I loved the bikes in PGR 4 but then I'm a motorcycle racing fan. Everything about PGR 4 is fantastic, my only wishes were that BC added a few more cities from PGR 2 and kept the PGR 3 handling. FWIW, I still think PGR 2 is the best game in the series but PGR 4 comes very close. Hard to fathom that a 5 year old game can rankl amongst the most technically advanced racing games on the 360. The Digital Foundry Blur interview reveals that the BC team weren't using anywhere near the full capacity of the 360 in PGR 4; for example PGR 4 was using only one of the three CPU cores.

One can only wonder what might have been with PGR 5 if MS had bought Bizarre Creations. I guess Blur provides some answer to that... Speaking of Blur, it was a fantastic game too & I whilst I understand it wasn't PGR and many felt disappointed, the multiplayer is awesome fun, even with randoms and that aspect alone should have been enough to sell the game. The single player game is pretty good too despite the difficulty spikes.

Yes, in an interview in EDGE magazine, the Bizarre guys (Martyn Chudley), mentioned that PGR3 had the most realistic driving model, with lots of appropriate understeer, but they were not allowed to continue in this direction (presumably to avoid competition with Forza).
I read about this on the Bizarre Creations fan forum. Several of the Bizarre Creations dev team posted on a while back and a few nuggets were revealed such as Murray Walker was set to recored commentary for PGR 3.
 

addyb

Member
Ive sunk about 4 hours into Gotham
Career now on PGR4 and my oh my is it addictive. I like the fact it's really tough ( well for me anyway) and sometimes just getting a 3rd place seems like an achievement.

I'm into my 2nd season and finally qualified for a major but then got knocked out at the first round. Love the way the game treats you. Its kind of like tough try again next year. That's also what I love about it. I'm not restarting any races so just finishing races regardless of position and moving on.

Last night for example I took part in a pro cup (6 stages) and after 2 stages I was rock bottom (8th) in the standings, I then got two 1st place finishes to bump me up to 3rd overall and then just fell short in the last 2 stages narrowly missing out on 2nd overall. So much fun.

I think it's the best career mode ive played in a driving game.
 
I still regularly return to this game. Watching the New York replays as you cross the bridge and see the whole city in the distance still blows me away. I also think it has the best, most natural looking lighting ever used on the 360.
 
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