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[Rourkey]

I have my Virgin Tivo box connected and I haven't noticed any drops, in fact I just watched match of the day (fantastic result for Cardiff by the way) and I saw no drops in any of the games shown, looks the same as when the Tivo was connected directly to my amp. Watching Soul men now again I haven't noticed any frame drops.

yer i only notice it when I watch sky sports news or Sky news, you can see the ticker not scrolling smoothly but even that is not as bad as some judders ive seen.

I watched football looking for issues when there was panning and I didnt notice it even when looking closely. I used to notice it a lot on sky go on the 360 but put that down to it streaming on the internet but now I guess this effect was probably the main issue.

I do think MS have thought about it and this is their solution, it would be nice to have the option though of say a 50hz dashboard that flicked to 60hz for games, I watch TV more than I play games.

 

[Rich!]

Can this be patched by a software update? If so I hope it gets resolved for you guys soon..

No, not really. Short of reprogramming every single game and the UI to run at the slower 50hz format, there's nothing that can be done.

It's a pretty glaring flaw in the Xbone. I have no idea why anyone would use a device that degrades the TV broadcast quality in such a way, especially when us in the UK don't even have the features that the USA have to make the effort worth it.

It's a completely and utterly worthless feature here.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

No, not really. Short of reprogramming every single game and the UI to run at the slower 50hz format, there's nothing that can be done.

It's a pretty glaring flaw in the Xbone. I have no idea why anyone would use a device that degrades the TV broadcast quality in such a way, especially when us in the UK don't even have the features that the USA have to make the effort worth it.

It's a completely and utterly worthless feature here.

Wait, really? It can't be patched? That would be pretty messed up.

 

[Rich!]

Wait, really? It can't be patched? That would be pretty messed up.

There's no way to display a 50hz image inside a 60hz one without introducing extra frames to compensate. None.

The only option would be to speed up the 50hz input, like how PAL DVDs are done. Problem is, the xbone won't have enough resources to do that.

 

[lensoftruth]

Wait, really? It can't be patched? That would be pretty messed up.

50 doesn't fit into 60 that well, it's as simple as that. Only other way would be using higher refresh rates than 60, which isn't going to happen.

 

[Withnail]

I haven't seen the picture judder either whilst watching the TV although I will watch back the F1 coverage as I assume if the image is going to judder this will be the place you should spot it easily. I will say I have spotted juddering on X1 but only whilst watching the replay mode on Forza 5.

The TV problem is when it's trying to display 50Hz and 60Hz content simultaneously. So unless you have snapped TV alongside a game (or some other 60Hz content) I don't think you'll notice anything wrong.

 

[boredandlazy]

Wait, really? It can't be patched? That would be pretty messed up.

It can't be patched because the XBOne UI has to always run at 60hz to accommodate games which are supposed (cough) to be the primary function of the console.

 

[level44]

The thing is, people in the Europe know that Microsoft is America-centric. Just look at the Gold features for US compared to the rest of the world. You knew what you were buying in to.

You should not be surprised at all that some features don't work for Europe.

 

[TommyG]

The thing is level, we paid the same if not more thanks to the currency rate for this machine as you did. Why shouldn't we expect the same service? Your view is very narrow minded and elitist.

When I hook up my Virgin Media Cable box to it, the HD picture is very poor. I hope they do find or make a patch for this.

 

[Seanbob11]

I don't understand. Is this for when the guide starts working over here? I've got my Virgin Media box plugged into my one and there's no difference?

 

[Hammer24]

Is this a UK specific problem? I don´t see that here in Germany.
Watched Formula 1 yesterday, full screen and snap-on, the rolling bar never juddered the slightest. Same goes for news channels like NTV, with their rolling bar, doesn´t judder for me.

 

[hadareud]

My Sky box is definitely stuttering through it, though I think only on HD channels (or at least it was more noticeable in HD).

I thought it might be a problem with the HDMI cable at first, but then I saw this thread.

I'd be quite pissed off if they couldn't patch this, because the TV stuff and guide was one of the things I looked forward to most.

 

[gaming_noob]

No, not really. Short of reprogramming every single game and the UI to run at the slower 50hz format, there's nothing that can be done.

It's a pretty glaring flaw in the Xbone. I have no idea why anyone would use a device that degrades the TV broadcast quality in such a way, especially when us in the UK don't even have the features that the USA have to make the effort worth it.

It's a completely and utterly worthless feature here.

All I can do is laugh. That is a monumental F-up.

 

[dose]

The only option would be to speed up the 50hz input, like how PAL DVDs are done. Problem is, the xbone won't have enough resources to do that.

This makes no sense, how will you be able to speed up a 50Hz (TV) input? How can you show TV broadcast from the future?

 

[backstep]

They probably can patch it to send a 50Hz signal when there isn't a game running. They made a big deal out of the xbone running multiple OSes with virtualisation right? With a seperate OS for games and another for the UI/TV.

So they could add a system level setting to use 50Hz output when the gaming OS isn't presenting anything to the screen.

I'm not saying it'd be trivial, but it wouldn't require rewriting the entire UI like some suggest. Besides it's almost guaranteed the UI animations run against the system timer rather than at a fixed framerate, so I doubt it'd have any side-effects like 16% slower menu transitions either.

We already know it can output different refresh rates fairly easily, I'm assuming, since it can play blu-ray discs without judder at 1080p24. You'd still get it when a game+TV are both snapped to screen, but that's not really a case where smooth TV is critical (what with the postage stamp sized view of the TV image and all).

When I was setting up my HTPC for 50Hz output, I found Sky Sports News had quite a fast ticker to detect judder, like the OP mentions. The BBC news channel one was a bit slower but it's still noticeable.

 

[Faddy]

There's no way to display a 50hz image inside a 60hz one without introducing extra frames to compensate. None.

The only option would be to speed up the 50hz input, like how PAL DVDs are done. Problem is, the xbone won't have enough resources to do that.

You can't speed up live tv. This is a big issue because it just won't work well. UK HD is broadcast at 1080i50 (signal headers can denote that the footage should be displayed at 1080p25) and you can add to that most channels are still in SD although main ones have HD meaning that as well as framerate we will have scaling issues as well with added sharpness.

The whole thing is a mess and I don't know why anyone would use the Xbox to watch tv since it crowds over Sky, Virgin and others generally good interfaces, reduces control like series link and dvr function as well as screwing with picture quality.

It might be worse for HD channels in the states where some still broadcast at 720p meaning that there will be scaling and sharpening on one channel but not another

 

[Haunted]

How did they not think of this?

U-S-A! U-S-A!

 

[MarkMclovin]

Is this why I sometimes notice a very slight judder every second when I watch Blu Rays? It's mostly noticeable when the scene is side scrolling.

I've always wondered what that was but it doesn't bother me enough to do anything about it.

 

[Rich!]

You can't speed up live tv.

Well obviously. That's why it's impossible unless the xbone can buffer ten minutes of footage, which isn't ever going to happen. You'd have to wait for it too.

 

[dose]

Well obviously. That's why it's impossible unless the xbone can buffer ten minutes of footage, which isn't ever going to happen. You'd have to wait for it too.

And then after 10 minutes of watching you'd have to wait another 10 minutes before it buffers again. Great idea

 

[Faddy]

Is this why I sometimes notice a very slight judder every second when I watch Blu Rays? It's mostly noticeable when the scene is side scrolling.

I've always wondered what that was but it doesn't bother me enough to do anything about it.

Depends on your TV, every decent one made in the last 5 years should support 1080p24 without judder. Obviously some budget sets and HDready sets that only support 720p/1080i 50Hz broadcast standardsmay not deal with 24fps and show some judder, stretching the 24 frames over 25 via duplication.

 

[coldfoot]

They probably can patch it to send a 50Hz signal when there isn't a game running. They made a big deal out of the xbone running multiple OSes with virtualisation right? With a seperate OS for games and another for the UI/TV.

The TV problem is when it's trying to display 50Hz and 60Hz content simultaneously. So unless you have snapped TV alongside a game (or some other 60Hz content) I don't think you'll notice anything wrong.

No, everything that comes out of the Xbone HDMI is 60hz. Even when it's only passing through the HDMI input. Otherwise your TV would blank out when switching between full screen and snap mode for a couple seconds for HDMI handshake. Even if they patch 50hz output on full screen, it's never going to solve the problem that changing refresh rate on HDMI is just like changing resolution, your TV goes blank for a couple seconds to reacquire the HDMI signal.

 

[Dougald]

The thing is, people in the Europe know that Microsoft is America-centric. Just look at the Gold features for US compared to the rest of the world. You knew what you were buying in to.

You should not be surprised at all that some features don't work for Europe.

I say, let 'em crash!

I wouldn't equate the ESPN tie-ups and the like that we normally see to the biggest-touted feature of the console. But you're right, I'm not surprised to hear this at all

 

[Walshicus]

No, everything that comes out of the Xbone HDMI is 60hz. Even when it's only passing through the HDMI input. Otherwise your TV would blank out when switching between full screen and snap mode for a couple seconds for HDMI handshake. Even if they patch 50hz output on full screen, it's never going to solve the problem that changing refresh rate on HDMI is just like changing resolution, your TV goes blank for a couple seconds to reacquire the HDMI signal.

I suppose there are two "fixes"
1) Change to 50hz when fullscreen in TV, everything else is 60hz
2) Change to 60hz when fullscreen in games, everything else is 50hz

I can't imagine either of the above are particularly difficult to bring in as options for those who don't mind a short pause between switching.

 

[Jinko]

Unless Pal 50 dies completely, this won't change because broadcasters in Europe aren't willing to give up their legacy content, or god forbid, invest money to adapt it.

As someone said already, US tv programs (soaps etc) are also filmed at 24fps. (not to mention films/movies)

It's not just EU that is lagging behind on this, all those TV shows should really be filmed at 30fps now, but they aren't.

As someone else mentioned it would have made more sense to have multiples of 24, seeing as this is the standard for movies and most tv.

But nope now we got 120 hz + TV's. (Edit this works also, now that I think of it)

I guess 240 hz would work.

 

[coldfoot]

I suppose there are two "fixes"
1) Change to 50hz when fullscreen in TV, everything else is 60hz
2) Change to 60hz when fullscreen in games, everything else is 50hz

I can't imagine either of the above are particularly difficult to bring in as options for those who don't mind a short pause between switching.

The first option is the one to go, you don't want games to change res in snap mode. However, the short pause between switching completely goes against the principle of having an Xbone. A receiver/TV also takes a couple seconds to switch between HDMI inputs, so why are we using the HDMI input in the Xbox again? Not to mention TV footage would have to be at 60hz whenever you're snapping stuff.

 

[mclem]

Forgive me for being miles behind events, but is there no 50Hz-for-games option at all? That always used to be settable from Xbox onwards. I guess it's kinda nice not having to work with two distinct potential framerates.

 

[winstano]

I believe the technical term for "Blur at a reduced framerate" is "Gorillaz".

Re-enter this thread to immediately strike gold. Incredible.

 

[Walshicus]

For anyone who's actually tried this, how does it compare to using BBC iPlayer on PC?

 

[Uhyve]

Is there any interpolation method similar to motionflow that could convert 50hz to 60hz? Or would it be too difficult since it's not a nice double framerate style interpolation?

 

[Zabant]

As I predicted:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=714015

Why didn't anyone listen to me?

I bow to you, I doubted they would miss such an obvious thing in that thread.

Never underestimate the incompetence of microsoft i guess.

 

[iosef]

Well I guess that's it, British people -- time to move.

 

[Jinko]

Well I guess that's it, British people -- time to move.

Noup, we'll just not route our TV through our X1's

 

[Certinty]

Laughable how Microsoft are even selling what essentially is a USABox in Europe.

 

[JayFalcon]

Wow this was a major selling point , There have also been negative Xbox One reports in the British papers

 

[Gangxxter]

Because the console was designed for America.

'Murrica is the world!

 

[Kosma]

Has MS responded to this yet?

Has there been any coverage of this?

 

[iMax]

Once again to remind folks, there's reasons Google TV flopped. HDMI cablebox passthrough is last-gen tech. Google TV OEM's are no longer supporting it. The future is IPTV & DLNA Premium video.

I don't think Xbox One will be flaunting its HDMI-in in 5 years time. Just like the Xbox 360, the platform will shift, and they'll focus on App Channels a lot more down the line.

As for the 50Hz/60Hz issue, doesn't the Xbox One run three display panes simultaneously? Can these run at different rates? I'm guessing not, because of the HDMI connection but I can see a patch coming in allowing the console to re-shake with the display when the TV launch app is opened.

Also, the Xbox 360 has a 50Hz mode in Europe. Doesn't the Xbox One too?

 

[polyh3dron]

Interesting. Yeah this is going to be a problem for snapped TV over there as they said in the bottom portion of the quoted text. If the input is 50hz and the game is running at 60hz then you can only display one refresh rate.

The question is how did they not see this in testing? Seems like it would be pretty easy to find in QA.

They gave zero fucks about anywhere outside of 'murica

 

[Powdered Toastman]

Upsample to 300hz with frame interpolation, then downsample to 60hz by taking every 5th frame...

 

[Walshicus]

From the OP's link:

kevgallacher 25 November 2013 at 6:21 pm

I have a solution.
My Xbox One is currently outputting 1080 50p
So 50Hz is possible.

It was 60p but I changed the settings to auto detect HDMi and then set the resolution to 1080p and then selected no when the option appeared for does this display correctly. It then defaulted to 50p.

 

[iMax]

Also, I've never noticed juddering issues watching British content on iPlayer or Sky through my Xbox 360 set to 1080p60.

 

[Jotaka]

Interesting. Yeah this is going to be a problem for snapped TV over there as they said in the bottom portion of the quoted text. If the input is 50hz and the game is running at 60hz then you can only display one refresh rate.

The question is how did they not see this in testing? Seems like it would be pretty easy to find in QA.

Beta tested in the future?

 

[Devilgunman]

Because the console was designed for America.

And yet MS decided to launch it globally instead of fighting head on with PS4 in 'Murica.

 

[TTOOLL]

How did they not think of this?

Because it's designed for murica

 

[ICPEE]

Because the console was designed for America.

This is what i have been saying countless times.

 

[mrklaw]

The first option is the one to go, you don't want games to change res in snap mode. However, the short pause between switching completely goes against the principle of having an Xbone. A receiver/TV also takes a couple seconds to switch between HDMI inputs, so why are we using the HDMI input in the Xbox again? Not to mention TV footage would have to be at 60hz whenever you're snapping stuff.

Have it as an option then. I could live with the signal blanking out for a second while it changes refresh rates,not the end of the world.

- or run the games at 50hz

 

[Walshicus]

Has anyone here tried the 50hz setting I posted above? I don't have a separate freeview/cable box yet...

 

[Walshicus]

Anyone? I'd try it myself only I don't have a cable box or external freeview box...

 

[Rourkey]

Anyone? I'd try it myself only I don't have a cable box or external freeview box...

Yes it worked for me and the tickers on Sky news are fine, but turning on auto discovery means I can't force 5.1 pcm as the xbox talks to the tv which tells it it only has 2 speakers so the xbox only outputs 2.0pcm to my receiver!

I'm just going to try a game see what difference it makes