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In new Captain America #1, what Steve Rogers says will change everything (SPOILERS).

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T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
DeathyBoy said:
You mean the career where Marvel love the guy and are pushing the shit out of his work?

Once again, Cap sold like shit before this when he was ye olde Cap. And I'll bet no one complaining about this 'twist' actually read said issues. So it's a bit rich to go 'I want old Cap back.' Putting aside the fact that anyone who's read a comic would know that by Avengers: Infinity War, Part One your beloved Cap will be back in comics barely anyone will read.
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Brubaker's run had low numbers? Really? There was plenty of Ye Olde Cap in that.

LumpOfCole said:
What next, Dr Octopus taking over Spider-man's body?
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This isn't Doc Ock taking over Peter's body. This is Doc Ock taking over Pete's body, and then explaining that he was in fact always Doc Ock, and Peter was a false identity implanted in him at a young age. The real Peter Parker never existed, and Octavius is the actual, real person.
 
T

Temp_User

Member
SpaceWolf said:
SPOILERS: SECRET EMPIRE #0's Shocking Captain America Secret Changes Everything



VzV1mIV.gif
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This type of story clusterfuck makes me suddenly nostalgic of the bad,old days trying to figure out who and what was Xorn after Grant Morrison left New X-men.

Still though a more simplified concept of Cap being a sleeper Hydra agent wouldve been amazing as an Elseworld/non-continuity story. Like a super-hero version of Marion Cotillard's character in Allied. I just hope that whatever pay-off they have in store for Cap for this mess is worth it.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
thetrin said:
Brubaker's run had low numbers? Really? There was plenty of Ye Olde Cap in that.



This isn't Doc Ock taking over Peter's body. This is Doc Ock taking over Pete's body, and then explaining that he was in fact always Doc Ock, and Peter was a false identity implanted in him at a young age. The real Peter Parker never existed, and Octavius is the actual, real person.
Click to expand...

And will be retconned back by next year at the latest.

Also Brubaker was what, seven years ago?
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Comic book writer pro tip: If your body swap/reality swap storyline goes for longer than a year, you've fucked up you daft cunt. Should be done in half that time really as the "shock" fades and becomes incredibly boring.

Cartoons normally have the good graces to deal with such boring concepts in two or three parters at most.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
After digesting for a bit the "Hydra aren't actually Nazis" part of this story is the grossest thing of all.

Marvel needs to tread really carefully in their handling of Nazi sympathizers and collaborators.
 
O

Oddish1

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
After digesting for a bit the "Hydra aren't actually Nazis" part of this story is the grossest thing of all.

Marvel needs to tread really carefully in their handling of Nazi sympathizers and collaborators.
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I'm not super into Marvel or know a lot about Hydra so I didn't want to say anything, but that's what I was thinking too.
 
G

Garlador

Member
This sounds pretty convoluted. I'm getting flashbacks to The Clone Saga, Xorn, and Captain Atom/Monarch.

That is not a good sign.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Kurdel said:
Or maybe you are wrong in presuming a group of scientists in the 50's could use a cosmic cube in such a precise manner as to erase concentration camps from History.

It can all be handwaived with one line of dialogue, focusing on specifics in a reality warping story at issue 0 is a waste of breath IMO.
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Dude, it's a cosmic cube! They don't have to get it right the first time, they can keep poking it until they manage to get it all sorted out.

Literally no excuse. And now there's the thing from the FCBD issue, ye gods.
 
M

Mr Swine

Banned
Conan-san said:
Last I heard (about arse end march) Everything was getting punted into default dates and I think its gotten as bad as to get the last of those Megadrive one offs axed.

So in a world where Riverdale and that feted Archie reboot is inexplicably doing hilarious numbers it seems for all the world to see that Archie is holding the licence by the neck untill it dies and goes back to sega who, at best case will give it to someone who actauly cares and isn't stupid with their contracts (Boom, IDW, Udon if they still do comics) or worst and most likely case, throw the lot of it in the bin.

Edit: Poking at The megathread at Sonic Retro now tells me STH 291 is axed too and there was statements from archie's subtitle department talking 'boot a statement at the arse end of april.
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This is probably the worst news in ages for me. Now after 13 years of no Archie Comics I found out 2-3 years ago during the Genesis Saga that I could finally buy comics digitally on the Archie app. Now they are killing it off after Ken Penders rabid campaign against Archie comics UGH
 
B

Baron von Loathsome

Member
It's crazy to think that a blockbuster movie version of Cap and his Not Another Teen Movie-veteran actor are more faithful to the character's original depiction than the comic version is right now.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
At this point I don't even really mind the premise of the story too much. I just think having it play out for so long, with this current political climate, and with the mainline version of the character is a perfect storm of "Eh, no thanks." It's the type of thing I'd probably give a shot in a shorter elseworlds type of way. But over the course of a year and then leading into another Marvel event. Naw, I'm good.
 
A

Apdiddy

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
After digesting for a bit the "Hydra aren't actually Nazis" part of this story is the grossest thing of all.

Marvel needs to tread really carefully in their handling of Nazi sympathizers and collaborators.
Click to expand...

I don't think Marvel cares anymore.

I read the spoiler from the article and it's the stupidest f*ckin' thing I've ever read (dumber than One More Day, Clone Saga, Superman Red/Blue, and Civil Wars II). I'd rather Steve Rogers
be permanently 90+ years old and Sam Wilson be Captain America if we're going to clear the way for Rogers not to be Captain America anymore.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Apdiddy said:
I don't think Marvel cares anymore.

I read the spoiler from the article and it's the stupidest f*ckin' thing I've ever read (dumber than One More Day, Clone Saga, Superman Red/Blue, and Civil Wars II). I'd rather Steve Rogers
be permanently 90+ years old and Sam Wilson be Captain America if we're going to clear the way for Rogers not to be Captain America anymore.
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I question that you've read those comics if you think this is Cap's status quo for the foreseeable future. It's just something they're doing to make the return to good old Cap an event.
 
S

Sblargh

Banned
We are talking about a multiverse that was anihilated, glued back together by Dr. Doom and then rebuilt by Reed. Not to mention the trivia-like scenarios such as when Dr. Strange was the one who reconstructed the universe from destruction in the 70s.

It is kind of fated to be another trivia:
"did you know that in the marvel universe the nazis won?
Click this clickbait to know why this is not a big deal and just another quirky storyline".

From a pragmatical point of view, it is irrelevant, either as far as what the "real reality is" (it is the one we "live in", aka, the mainstream 616 we know about; the "what really happened" being another of an infinite number of what if) and as far as Steve Rogers being back, because he will inevitably be back and it will be told exactly as it would be told even without this revelation, except maybe a couple of dialogue baloons with pseudo-dilemma about truth in the context of reality being re-written by a cosmic cube.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Wasnt this idea played with during that weird 90s reboot in the Rob Liefeld Captain America? i remember there being a scene where Red Skull is telling Rogers that he was chosen for the Super Serum because he was the perfect Aryan specimen or some shit?
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
This discussion is interesting, because I'd never really stopped to consider the moral implications of Marvel doing stuff like flogging t-shirts with the Hydra symbol on it, or indeed the moral implications of Marvel glamorizing an organization with strong Nazi ties, even a fictional one.

Hell, even "Hail Hydra" has become a pretty popular and prevalent meme.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
Kurdel said:
I am sure they have no qualms about selling Empire merch from starwars, or hving huge cutouts of Darth Vader. Or maybe the store hasn't been told the Empire are space nazis?
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I feel that's a different matter though, for no matter how much the Galactic Empire is loosely inspired by the Nazi Regime, Hydra actually has in-universe ties to the Nazi's as a fully fledged Nazi Organization that started out as their science division.
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
SpaceWolf said:
I feel that's a different matter though, for no matter how much the Galactic Empire is loosely inspired by the Nazi Regime, Hydra actually has in-universe ties to the Nazi's as a fully fledged Nazi Organization that started out as their science division.
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Having read the (terribly convoluted) backstory of Steve Rogers in this latest run, it isn't the case.

Hydra wants to take over the world and
summon an Elder god to protect the earth from another incoming eldritch horror. They were split to whether they should infiltrate and take over the Reich, but Red Skull said fuck it and took the position of leader and went whole hog with thr Nazis. The current Madame Hydra and Steve Rogers boss was opposed to this, leading to them killing off Red Skull to end the Nazi ties and put Hydra back on the "right track".

Still fascist mind you, but they went to great lengths over 16 issues to divorce both organisations. Needing that much flip-flopping backstory to set up your event if pretty dumb and horrible writing though.
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
Not sure if Marvel is consciously attempting to add another layer to this with all of the IRL debate over if Richard Spencer and other prominent white nationalists are "really" Nazis with this hydra shit but they seem to have succeeded.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
Kurdel said:
Having read the (terribly convoluted) backstory of Steve Rogers in this latest run, it isn't the case.

Hydra wants to take over the world and
summon an Elder god to protect the earth from another incoming eldritch horror. They were split to whether they should infiltrate and take over the Reich, but Red Skull said fuck it and took the position of leader and went whole hog with thr Nazis. The current Madame Hydra and Steve Rogers boss was opposed to this, leading to them killing off Red Skull to end the Nazi ties and put Hydra back on the "right track".

Still fascist mind you, but they went to great lengths over 16 issues to divorce both organisations. Needing that much flip-flopping backstory to set up your event if pretty dumb and horrible writing though.
Click to expand...

Is this the case with the MCU version of Hydra though?
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
SpaceWolf said:
Is this the case with the MCU version of Hydra though?
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As far of the movies go, they appeared in WWII as the scientific arm of the nazis, but maybe there may be a throwaway line about being "in the shadows since the dawn of man", it wouldn't surpise me.
 
C

caliph95

Member
Kurdel said:
As far of the movies go, they appeared in WWII as the scientific arm of the nazis, but maybe there may be a throwaway line about being "in the shadows since the dawn of man", it wouldn't surpise me.
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It was retconned in AOS where Hydra exists for years and had different branches with the Nazis one being another branch. Though IIRC MCU Red Skull didn't actually believe in hitler and was just using him for his plans.
 
M

Magwik

Banned
Kurdel said:
As far of the movies go, they appeared in WWII as the scientific arm of the nazis, but maybe there may be a throwaway line about being "in the shadows since the dawn of man", it wouldn't surpise me.
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Hydra in the MCU existed long before the Nazis. Y'all need to watch Agents of SHIELD.
 
C

caliph95

Member
StaticJam said:
Hydra in the MCU existed long before the Nazis. Y'all need to watch Agents of SHIELD.
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Remind me even Nazi Hydra weren't really Nazis right or loyal to the cause right, i remember MCu Red Skull wasn't the super nazi he was in the comics.

They are still fascists regardless anyway just equal opportunity fascists
 
K

KingV

Member
Kurdel said:
Having read the (terribly convoluted) backstory of Steve Rogers in this latest run, it isn't the case.

Hydra wants to take over the world and
summon an Elder god to protect the earth from another incoming eldritch horror. They were split to whether they should infiltrate and take over the Reich, but Red Skull said fuck it and took the position of leader and went whole hog with thr Nazis. The current Madame Hydra and Steve Rogers boss was opposed to this, leading to them killing off Red Skull to end the Nazi ties and put Hydra back on the "right track".

Still fascist mind you, but they went to great lengths over 16 issues to divorce both organisations. Needing that much flip-flopping backstory to set up your event if pretty dumb and horrible writing though.
Click to expand...

What books did this happen in? I'm curious to go read it.
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
KingV said:
What books did this happen in? I'm curious to go read it.
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The current run of Capitain America Steve Rogers drip feeds all of this over 16 issues.

It's really slow and the cosmic horror stuff is barely hinted at, so it's hard to say how much a role it will play in the coming event.

But Captain Americas handler goes into
a eldritch fit with flying energy tentacles choking Steve Rogers when he questions her. She also has this demon face for a panel, it was pretty cool but criminally underutilized sp far

Spyder_Monkey said:
There better be a point to all of this.
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I've been reading comics for a few years now, I hate this feeling of "will it be the journey or the destination that was worth it?".
 
M

Mesoian

Member
Conan-san said:
Last I heard (about arse end march) Everything was getting punted into default dates and I think its gotten as bad as to get the last of those Megadrive one offs axed.

So in a world where Riverdale and that feted Archie reboot is inexplicably doing hilarious numbers it seems for all the world to see that Archie is holding the licence by the neck untill it dies and goes back to sega who, at best case will give it to someone who actauly cares and isn't stupid with their contracts (Boom, IDW, Udon if they still do comics) or worst and most likely case, throw the lot of it in the bin.

Edit: Poking at The megathread at Sonic Retro now tells me STH 291 is axed too and there was statements from archie's subtitle department talking 'boot a statement at the arse end of april.
Click to expand...

Licensing was a mistake, it was nothing but trash.

Oh well. Maybe Hussie will get to stay on if IDW gets it and reboots it all.
 
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