Coffee Dog
Banned
Using him to fight other cyber crime is a great punishment.
Can you expand on what you mean by this? Weak in what way?
Can you expand on what you mean by this? Weak in what way?
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Lizard Squad member convicted for Christmas attacks on PSN, Xbox Live
- Thread starter Pathfinder
- Start date
Pathfinder
Member
He has done a lot more than take down PSN and Xbox Live. Read the Daily Dot article quoted in the OP.
This. It's amazing how many Gaffers post in threads without understanding wtf is actually in the Op. All the "lol videogames" type posts are ignorant as hell.
So everywhere else in the world but the US is beheading people? You're going to have to explain that one to me.
The US justice system is big on punitive measures - sentences for the sake of punishment. Other systems are more focused on reparations for the victims or reforming the perpetrator and rarely use punitive measures.
artsi
Member
Finnish here, I think he should have got some jail time but this sentence is pretty much in line with our lenient justice system.
His young age was a factor in the sentencing, and that he had already been in custody for a month during the initial investigation.
These news about the sentencing didn't mention anything about swatting or Sony, just money laundering, CC fraud and breaches to Harvard, MIT and MongoHQ who didn't demand any damages.
Police is also saying that they're still investigating him for other suspected crimes, so he should be sentenced for those separately later.
His young age was a factor in the sentencing, and that he had already been in custody for a month during the initial investigation.
These news about the sentencing didn't mention anything about swatting or Sony, just money laundering, CC fraud and breaches to Harvard, MIT and MongoHQ who didn't demand any damages.
Police is also saying that they're still investigating him for other suspected crimes, so he should be sentenced for those separately later.
bobawesome
Member
Thanks for the additional information.
Battlesmurf
Member
From a psychology standpoint, too harsh of a punishment doesn't really work.
(And this is coming from someone whom these things directly inconvenienced). If they can turn this little goober around to a good cause, he's more valuable than spending money locking up.
Pathfinder
Member
Let's hope so.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Coffee Dog
Banned
American style "your life is fucked up forever" sentencing
You just said you hope a 17 year old gets raped for two years, think about that for a second.
No really fucking think about it.
TC McQueen
Member
They should've locked them up for 10 years, mandatory, in the iso-cubes.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Rehabilitation is justice. If you disagree you need to reanalyze your definition of the word.
Pathfinder
Member
soundscream
Member
Or actually 2 years in prison, not a suspended sentence.
maquiladora
Member
SWATing is putting somebody's life at risk and causing incredible distress.
Is there no middle ground as punishment for such a serious act between a suspended sentence and the wild west?
Put yourself in the victims shoes. You've seen how trigger happy US cops are. You know how dangerous that kind of situation is. The fact that it is so dangerous is the reason why SWATing is even a thing.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If I had a gun pointed at my head with a huge risk of being terminated, I would fail to see how he is being rehabilitated for a crime similar to a "hit".
But then someone cleared it up, and this could have further charges once the investigations are completed.
Angry Fork
Member
If it was just PSN/Live stuff I would be fine with that, but he's responsible for swatting too which deserves a much harsher punishment imo.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
SWATing is false call for authority. I doubt a finnish court will account for the high likelyness of amiercan law enforcement shooting innocent people dead without probable cause. Any defense attorney would easily pick this stuff apart.
No, that would be a huge mistake. This shouldn't be about the victims. This is about an appropriate sentence.
Its hard to make that argument when it comes to swatting though since lives are at stake. You really don't want to set that precedent of lenience towards the crime.
Lizard Squad grounded a plane to last fall. This member though was a moron, he went on BBC news bragging about what they did, thats why they were able to identify him.
He should be sued for financial damages but I am sure it won't happen.
The kid was sentenced to help the police fight cyber crime as well.
Who knows how what this might consist of? If he helped the popo indentify the rest of Lizard Squad, that's a much more productive sentence than to have him sat in a cell for years.
This isn't the Wild West. I'm glad the Finnish justice system doesn't wreck the lives of stupid teenagers.
+30 fuck knuckle points for whoever called for him to be prison raped. The dude is 17.
Who knows how what this might consist of? If he helped the popo indentify the rest of Lizard Squad, that's a much more productive sentence than to have him sat in a cell for years.
This isn't the Wild West. I'm glad the Finnish justice system doesn't wreck the lives of stupid teenagers.
+30 fuck knuckle points for whoever called for him to be prison raped. The dude is 17.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Spending years in prison with other fucked up people is just going to make him a career criminal. Maybe this way the kid can still contribute something to society, eventually.
Oh well, I'm Finnish, so maybe I just don't get this 'an eye for an eye' mentality.
Oh well, I'm Finnish, so maybe I just don't get this 'an eye for an eye' mentality.
Rehabilitation can coexist with punitive measures. What this kid did isn't as drastic as your scenario.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Finnish Him!
Lizard Squad.Wins!
TECHNICALITY
Lizard Squad.Wins!
TECHNICALITY
The Crimson Beast
Banned
Damn, we couldn't have barred him from using the internet like the hacker in the movie Hackers? That would of been justice imo.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I never said "everywhere", you injected that part.
You want to make a claim that the U.S. is number one in the world for criminals not being rehabbed, and my point is that in some countries, you don't even make it out of prison.
And yeah, I do feel those who commit a crime should be punished.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Someone who can get locked right back up if they decide to not learn their lesson and use their hard luck story as justification for feeling entitled to do things that other people choose not to, no matter how hard they have it or have had it, and irregardless of what criminal skillsets and opportunities they have.
mordecaii83
Member
Wow, if anything this just encourages others to pull the same crap.
The first asshole that SWATs someone and causes loss of life is going to shit brick when they're in jail with no bail on an attempted murder charge (in the US at least).
I really don't think the people SWATting want/expect their victims to be shot and killed by the police. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, it's still a despicable act. It's more about intimidation and...well, harassment, than murder. At least I hope so.
Ah yea, I forgot to consider this. There's a very good chance he flipped on his buddies and that significantly reduced his sentence.
Having read the story: several people have criticized posters' reading comprehension by not being able to see Kivimaki's swatting in the story, but the Daily Dot article never states that he's being sentenced for swatting. It makes mention of someone who claims Kivimaki perpetrated swatting, but then cites a CNBC story that makes no mention of SWAT response and doesn't definitively prove Kivimaki was the caller.
If it is proven he did that, he should be punished accordingly. None of the stories provide sufficient details of whether that was among the charges, but the language indicates to me that it wasn't.
Is there further reading that adds info?
Pathfinder
Member
Since he was not put in jail and the sentence was under five years, his criminal record will be cleared in five years.
Source: I live in Finland
Yeah, and the appropriate sentence usually takes into account the crime, the victim and the defendant.
oo7
Member
WTF? So as long as you commit crimes while you're going through your "rebellious teen" phase you should just get a slap on the wrist? This little shit knew exactly what he was doing. Need to set an example with the cyber punks. Swatting isn't a harmless act btw.
Neuromancer
Member
I hope this kid becomes a useful member of society rather than continue to be a little shit for the rest of his life.
Fuck, that's an awesome law. God damn USA police state. *grumble grumble*
artsi
Member
None of the Finnish sources report that he was sentenced for swatting.
Either they didn't find any evidence that links him to those attacks, or it is among the crimes they're still investigating and wasn't included in this sentencing.
aspiegamer
Member
Aah, so as long as no one gets hurt when swatted it's cool. Can I assume this extends to other internet crime the justice system isn't at all equipped to cope with like doxxing and general harassment? Just so long as no one gets physically hurt?
Edit: I see an above post about this likely not necessarily being about the swatting. I'm far more inclined to be understanding of a suspended sentence for a first-time non-violent offender.
You have no idea how jealous I am that you're able to be this mature about it. We Americans are seriously screwed up. I'm a top-tier socialist liberal wuss even I'm completely hooked into the institutionalized revenge system. Worse, part of that makes me incredibly doubtful that anyone can ever reform, ever! Cyber bullying isn't the sort of thing you outgrow overnight, which is why I'm terrified this total lack of punishment will be taken as a "win" for these jerks.
TLDR: However you want to spin this, he got away with it.
Pathfinder
Member
Yup. Even if the sentence didn't include charges of swatting, he did indeed get away with taking down the networks and causing financial harm to Sony and Microsoft.
BaronMonstro
Member
Well at least we have the console network downages of Christmas 2017 to look forward to.
artsi
Member
Sony or Microsoft weren't included in this either, so that could also come later if he was involved, only Harvard, MIT and MongoHQ were mentioned as plaintiffs and they didn't demand anything.
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