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Lizard Squad member convicted for Christmas attacks on PSN, Xbox Live

L Thammy

Member
I never said "everywhere", you injected that part.
You want to make a claim that the U.S. is number one in the world for criminals not being rehabbed, and my point is that in some countries, you don't even make it out of prison.

And yeah, I do feel those who commit a crime should be punished.

I injected that part because I was trying to point out how stupid I think your point was. In more lenient systems - including the Finnish system we are discussing - a criminal who is sentenced is less likely to commit a crime again than in the harsher US system. Yes, they kill people in some other countries. On the other hand, they're much more lenient in plenty of others, and it's more effective.

You feel that those who commit a crime should be punished. Most people do, and I think that's pretty universal. But that isn't all that important. The justice system's goal should be to reduce criminal activity and improve society, not to entertain the public. Most of the ideas the public has about crime - how prevalent it is, whether punishments are appropriate, etc. - are horribly uninformed.
 

oo7

Member
Well at least we have the console network downages of Christmas 2017 to look forward to.

All because "lol spend time with your families, not on the game consoles your families got you for Christmas"

I can't recall a Christmas where I didn't actually play with or use what I got for Christmas that morning. These nerds need a beating imo.
 

Aroll

Member
Using him to fight other cyber crime is a great punishment.

He's not fighting cybercrime. At least, it doesn't look like they are using him to. They said he has to become an anti-cyber crime activist. Not someone working for the government (or any other agency) to prevent and stop cybercrime, but one of those people you see at speeches at schools, etc, telling you "why it's wrong". That's not really much at all, especially since it's a requirement, not a choice. He could totally be swatting and performing cybercrimes himself again and simply do what is required of him in the speeches. It's totally different when the government takes you and uses you in a positive manner. Instead, they pretty much just said "no one got hurt, so you're cool". What if swatting lead to someone dying? He didn't kill anyone - would it be the same punishment - because it should.
 
I think that people from the country with the largest prison population in the world and one of the highest recidivism rates in the (western) world need to stop trying to tell other countries how to sentence and jail their criminals.

He's a minor, he does not need to be removed from society and he needs to get help instead of being thrown in a place where none of his actual problems can get addressed. Lot a you people are just out for blood, and would rather see this guy suffer and deteriorate rather than get his life and mental state on track.

I know that's the norm over in the grand old USA, where people go in as thieves or pot-smokers and come out as drug-addicted gang-members (who are then unable to vote, buy a house or get a job), but other countries choose a more sane approach.
 

artsi

Member
I noticed that the news report this trial being about crimes committed in 2012-2013 (while he was 15-16, hence the light sentence), while the PSN / Live attacks happened in 2014.

So that in addition to Sony / Microsoft not mentioned I'm pretty sure they're not included in this sentence in any way. I don't know when the swatting incidents were happening though.
 
I think that people from the country with the largest prison population in the world and one of the highest recidivism rates in the (western) world need to stop trying to tell other countries how to sentence and jail their criminals.

The high jail population can be attributed to the drug war. Most people don't want people jailed for marijuana. This kid was knowingly being a dick. I bet they loved all the people raging at them and laughed. This is not a healthy person. The swatting thing on top of all this should be evidence of this. American police are very trigger happy and I'm sure they know this.This sentence was very light.
 
I noticed that the news report this trial being about crimes committed in 2012-2013 (while he was 15-16, hence the light sentence), while the PSN / Live attacks happened in 2014.

So that in addition to Sony / Microsoft not mentioned I'm pretty sure they're not included in this sentence in any way. I don't know when the swatting incidents were happening though.

You are correct. It appears Polygon may have misunderstood the source article. They phrased it like he was convicted for the Christmas attacks, when really he was convicted for earlier attacks and just happened to also take part in the Christmas attacks.

Well, at least he was convicted of SOMETHING. Hopefully more in the future...
 

samn

Member
A stupid brat rebellious teen with no perspective of what he's doing goes to jail for ten years. Precisely what the fuck do you expect to come out at the end?

Yes, very sad, but at least we won't have many more of them thinking they can put people's lives in danger with little consequence.
 

True Fire

Member
he ruined my christmas by forcing me to interact with my family. for that inexcusable crime he deserves nothing less than life in prison.
 

Angry Fork

Member
LMAO @ the blood thirsty Americans in the thread
typical

Being blood thirsty about the PSN/Live shit is stupid but it's not crazy for the swatting. Police in the US are a terrorist gang that want to shoot things, swatting should be considered an attempt at real injury or death to someone else. If these people have large dogs those dogs likely have a very high chance of being killed also as police like to shoot pets also.
 

naib

Member
Finnish Him!
:lol

I do think it's a little light though. Do they have community service there? Or take internet access away for a couple years. Something.

If the perpetrator and intent/target where just a little different people would be reacting a lot differently. That's what's interesting.
 

klee123

Member
So pretty much a slap on the wrist.

Yeah, he's not going to feel any remorse. Chances are, he'll probably do it again lol.
 

oo7

Member
he ruined my christmas by forcing me to interact with my family. for that inexcusable crime he deserves nothing less than life in prison.

Like I stated earlier, what did you do in past Christmases after getting a bicycle or a cool new toy? Did you push it to the side and enjoy all day family time? That was my main issue with the Lizard shits claims. "We urrr wanted people to be with thar famlies not on da video game conzoles" buncha self righteous pricks.
 
Yes, very sad, but at least we won't have many more of them thinking they can put people's lives in danger with little consequence.

Except that it doesn't work that way. It's why states that allow for the death penalty don't have less crime than states that don't. You can't deter crimes by "setting examples" and you especially don't "sacrifice" a minor for this worthless cause.

That is a really mild sentence. Seems like other Nordic countries also have a mild legal system, its so annyoing sometimes.

What's annoying about having less crime, much lower recidivism rates, much higher rehabilitation rates, no executions, much less prison rape, much fewer prison gangs and a focus on healing and helping people (who made bad decision or grew up in bad circumstances) over blindly punishing and torturing people?

Considering America is such a "Christian" nation, isn't this something the US should strive for?
 

Snaku

Banned
Suspended prison sentence? So he might not even end up going to jail at all?

WXCTp7n.gif
 

samn

Member
Except that it doesn't work that way. It's why states that allow for the death penalty don't have less crime than states that don't. You can't deter crimes by "setting examples" and you especially don't "sacrifice" a minor for this worthless cause.

Only a small percentage of murderers are sentenced to death, and states that allow for the death penalty wait decades before actually killing the murderer.

I hope it's two years in federal "pound me in the ass" penitentiary.

Oh ho ho I don't think we've ever heard that one before!
 

Rezae

Member
Pretty weak. Yeah it's just videogames, but considering the amount of people affected, along with what had to be a large monetary hit on the business side, that seems extremely mild and not much of a deterrent.
 

Maximo

Member
I hope it's two years in federal "pound me in the ass" penitentiary.
I hope thats a joke and you don't actually want a teenager to be raped in prison...Don't see how rapping him is "justice" Even if it's a offhand joke it's pretty disgusting how people casually joke about it.
 

oo7

Member
This thread needs that hilarious video with the kid whos addicted to the computer and his mom unplugs it. Someone captioned it with Lizard Squad stuff. It was great and I can't find it :(
 

The Flash

Banned
This sounds like the premise of a movie.

"He was a young renegade hacker who went to far. Now he's being forced to work for the people who brought him in. Michael Bay presents Denial of Service. Coming to a theater near you this Summer.
 
SWATing is false call for authority. I doubt a finnish court will account for the high likelyness of amiercan law enforcement shooting innocent people dead without probable cause. Any defense attorney would easily pick this stuff apart.


No, that would be a huge mistake. This shouldn't be about the victims. This is about an appropriate sentence.

Er, what? That's ludicrous.

Justice is fundamentally fairness or equitableness in the way people are treated.
It is the system and laws we use to provide fair punishment to criminals who decide to break societies laws.
How can punishment OR rehabilitation POSSIBLY be considered fair or equitable if it takes absolutely no account of the victims??
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Er, what? That's ludicrous.

Justice is fundamentally fairness or equitableness in the way people are treated.
It's the system and laws to provide fair punishment to criminals to decide to break societies laws.
How can punishment OR rehabilitation POSSIBLY be considered fair or equitable if it takes absolutely no account of the victims??

What's more important to you, that the offender is rehabilitated and is fit to enter society as a law-abiding citizien or that he rots in jail for 10 years just because?
Who does that help?
 
It just frustrates me because what are the chances of this kid actually reforming? Really how often does that happen with delinquents like him? Does Finland have a good criminal reform program?

The worst case scenario which I imagine is very probable is him thinking to himself he got away with it, and thinking about how to better avoid being caught next time.
 

oo7

Member
This sounds like the premise of a movie.

"He was a young renegade hacker who went to far. Now he's being forced to work for the people who brought him in. Michael Bay presents Denial of Service. Coming to a theater near you this Summer.


Catch_Me_If_You_Can_2002_movie.jpg
 

L Thammy

Member
It just frustrates me because what are the chances of this kid actually reforming? Really how often does that happen with delinquents like him? Does Finland have a good criminal reform program?

The worst case scenario which I imagine is very probable is him thinking to himself he got away with it, and thinking about how to better avoid being caught next time.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...why-scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/

Going by this, 20-30 percent recidivism versus the US' 40-70 percent.
 

Varg

Banned
Being blood thirsty about the PSN/Live shit is stupid but it's not crazy for the swatting. Police in the US are a terrorist gang that want to shoot things, swatting should be considered an attempt at real injury or death to someone else. If these people have large dogs those dogs likely have a very high chance of being killed also as police like to shoot pets also.

Jesus Christ, some of you people are just plain retarded. Scared for the future with people who think like this.

Back on topic, suspended sentences where im from ususally means they do not want the person to go to jail yet. They usually go on a probationary period for a review. When they come to surrender themselves on a date that's given, they are given a dismissal if they acted well on their probation period. I would have at least given the guy 364 days in the county jail. Not like they serve the entire term anyway if they behave. I believe some sort of incarceration is appropriate to deter future attacks.
 
What's more important to you, that the offender is rehabilitated and is fit to enter society as a law-abiding citizien or that he rots in jail for 10 years just because?
Who does that help?

Nice strawman. Now you just need a Tin Man and a Lion for the matching set.

Show me where any of what you said was reflected in what I said.


I'm saying that the amount of harm caused to the victims should very much be considered in sentencing criminals or your system of justice can hardly be considered equitable or fair.
That's what 'just' means, y'know?
 
HE MESSED WITH OUR VIDEO GAMES

TAKE HIM TO THE CHAIR

You and every other idiot trying to make strawman arguments about "MUH VIDYAGAMES" should try reading the fucking OP. Y'know, this part:

The victim, an American, said Kivimaki called in false threats that sent American law enforcement to his home, and demanded the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation step in.
 
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