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Rumor: Zelda coming to both Wii U + NX, choose between male/female link, VA for NPCs
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Oh, yes, your perspective is clear and just as valid as any other.
Wheeljack said he doesn't want VA. I want to know why.
……forgetit
Member
Well....good for you?
LegendofLex
Member
Maybe to put this a different way, I wonder how female players (maybe specifically ones who have played the other games, and obviously not people who are invested with this conversation in a message board) would react if they had a gender select option, but to be a girl they'd have to give up "playing as Link."
Like, how important is "playing as Link" to the Zelda experience? I mean that separately from the question of whether playing as a male hero is essential to the experience, obviously, and I of course think gender isn't indispensable. But is "Link" disposable as the main character of the franchise?
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
This is why I think if you want to introduce a different character than Link as a female option, it needs to be Zelda. She's also a Triforce holder and is the only female character that is Link's equal in series relevance.
If it's Impa or someone new, I'll appreciate the option, but it seriously risks feeling like female players are getting relegated to second-string status. Like in everything else.
LegendofLex
Member
I'm fine with this on principle, but I think my biggest problem with it is I wouldn't want Zelda to be shoehorned into Link's role when her own role is already quite carved out, and - again - I wouldn't want the female option to be different at all from the play experience you get when you're Link (controls, items, weapons, abilities, etc.).
There isn't a single established character in the canon, bar Linkle, who could really pull this off. Zelda's already doing her own thing both in the main games and Smash Bros. She'd have to lose that individuality to not give up that experience that's analogous to playing as Link.
Maybe they'd pull it off in a way that doesn't feel like it disturbs the importance Zelda as sacred oracle and monarch already has to the existing story, but I'm skeptical. Or maybe they go full-blown RPG and both Link and Zelda can play however you want them to play.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
I mean, the bold is still my idea scenario. I made a huge post in this thread on why.
But I think Zelda could pull off playing a bit differently without it feeling like or being received like she's the "less canon" path in a way other characters would really struggle with, as long as it's still as well made a path and it's equally interesting.
Wheeljack539
Gold Member
When I was younger I was heavily into voice acting for anime dubs, as I supported them over the sub/dub wars of old. Even though I can be rather forgiving I had gotten rather annoyed at myself at how scrutinizing I could be at picking out a performance and paying more attention to that rather than simply enjoying the show. And during that time it always seemed that video game voice work was a step down.
While things have certainly improved since the days of Battle Area Toshinden and some of the later Mega Man X games there were some games over the years that I watched my brother play and picking out scenes where the actor just seemed to be coasting (one of which being Kingdom Hearts, but when I where I can't recall other than it being that game) and they were almost unusally the non important characters. And there is the disappointment of watching video where even acting professionals sound like they are phoning it in (one of the Star Trek games from several years back - or longer as its been awhile since I've thought about that one). Hell, even more recent things like say Laura from SFV have me sighing at how bad it came out.
I just have this fear that the voice acting will never live up to what I hope such a thing can be and due to what I used to do with anime I will end up focusing more on what sucks rather than what works.
The best time to have implimented voice work was in OoT when 3D was fresh and new like they did with Mario 64. What little they did there is far more than what OoT did and managed to establish a sound there that we have come to expect or come close to. With Zelda its been too long and while most can say its been long in coming I just can't help but feel like it will be a disappointing experience either way.
Link may be silent, but I fear that Nintendo or whatever studio would do the dubbing would half ass it due to few of the characters being voiced would really be 'important' save some like Zelda and Ganon. And due to this, rather than hear someone good we'd get the more constant crap due to the majority of character's being interacted with will be NPCs. And Nintendo may not care beyond Zelda and one or two more 'important' characters to really get the studio to try overall.
I understand the fear but you can't just not want VA in a game because they MIGHT screw it up.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Wheeljack539
Gold Member
Irrational, I understand, but Zelda is one of those last few odd 'untouched', so to speak from my childhood so I get extremely apprehensive about it. I just don't have much faith in Nintendo to deliver on that and with likely no option to turn it off I'd never get over it, no matter how good the game could end up.
LegendofLex
Member
I don't know that the minor NPCs are really saved by omitting voice acting, since the writing and editing job on their dialogue is often pretty bad even when it's just text.
Of course, this doesn't really mean the voice acting will be any better...
I still think it needs to happen. I think the way players interact with other characters and pick up rumors and information is really hamstrung by the decision to use text boxes only.
Of course, this doesn't really mean the voice acting will be any better...
I still think it needs to happen. I think the way players interact with other characters and pick up rumors and information is really hamstrung by the decision to use text boxes only.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
You know what they say, A game with delayed voice acting is eventually good, a game with bad voice acting has bad voice acting forever
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Personally I was never bothered by text boxes, but games like Kid Icarus were only better with their voice cast.
NewOrder79
Banned
Just hope it comes to wii-u don't want to buy another console to play it.
Skullwaker
Member
Nintendo voice acting can be hit or miss, since a lot of the time they don't opt for it. Hopefully they put the time and effort into it if this is true.
Also I wouldn't really mind the option to pick the gender of Link. I might go for male the first time and female the second or something. As long as the gender of Link isn't integral to the story, it shouldn't be a problem.
Also I wouldn't really mind the option to pick the gender of Link. I might go for male the first time and female the second or something. As long as the gender of Link isn't integral to the story, it shouldn't be a problem.
You not only didn't read the entire thread (understandable) you didn't even read the FIRST POST or, apparently, the topic title
My hope is that Nintendo uses VA to improve the dialogue and make it more powerful and streamlined. My fear is that they'll feel like it requires them or gives them the ability to add more narrative elements to the game.
I want them to go back to OoT, MM and WW levels of narrative. TP and SS got a bit too wordy, complex and intrusive with their plots. It's better in my mind to keep them simple and straight forward enough that you don't need overly long cut scenes and dialogues to make them work. Show, don't tell, but also don't show too much. This is a game after all.
Make the moments you do interrupt our playing really meaningful. Like Zelda being whisked away in OoT or Aryll getting kidnapped in WW or Link and Saria on the bridge. Powerful directing without the need for much dialogue.
SS had some great scenes but a good number of them just got bogged down with all the dialogue interruptions, which VA should help alleviate. I just hope they don't try and take it beyond that.
I want them to go back to OoT, MM and WW levels of narrative. TP and SS got a bit too wordy, complex and intrusive with their plots. It's better in my mind to keep them simple and straight forward enough that you don't need overly long cut scenes and dialogues to make them work. Show, don't tell, but also don't show too much. This is a game after all.
Make the moments you do interrupt our playing really meaningful. Like Zelda being whisked away in OoT or Aryll getting kidnapped in WW or Link and Saria on the bridge. Powerful directing without the need for much dialogue.
SS had some great scenes but a good number of them just got bogged down with all the dialogue interruptions, which VA should help alleviate. I just hope they don't try and take it beyond that.
Nintendo's handling of VA in English isn't quite comparative with their Japanese VA handling. I mean technically Zelda has had Japanese VA since 1998 (or earlier if you count BS Zelda). Seeing as they're the ones dictating the plot you may find that introducing full VA will have to impact on cutscene length.
Meesh
Member
Just imagining what Malon or a Malon equivalent might sound like actually singing words to Epona has me grinning ear to ear, heck all characters who used to just use gibberish now with hopefully well suited voices (and words lol) is just about a godly move on Nintendos part. Finally we can get past just "hey listen!" insanity. Text boxes primarily for Link is still something I can live with though. Yes they're really late with VA but it's part of the reason it's such a big deal, at least for me lol
As long as he doesn't mime around like in SS...
astrogamer
Member
I'm still confused by what actual benefit comes from VA dialogue. Kid Icarus Uprising has more of a VA commentary which the benefits are that you don't need to look at the text to get what's going on and the dialogue is going constantly so the delivery can be effective as events progress. Xenoblade works because there are long cutscenes with lots of body language and it covers for the lack of facial expressions as well as during battles it being less distracting. Fire Emblem uses VA alright to help convey the tone as they don't really have facial expressions and cannot really afford body motions but it is too short. The way Zelda uses dialogue, I cannot really see being much more than how Fire Emblem uses VA and then, it would be just as effective to keep using the little sound clips they've done in past games.
Meesh
Member
Wow... Didn't know about that. Now just inject a little of that into the game and I'll be happy
LegendofLex
Member
A large chunk of the dialogue in Zelda games comes from NPCs spouting off random facts or gossiping with each other.
A lot of this could be relegated to chatter you pick up aurally as you walk by rather than having to stop and talk to each NPC manually and read the text as it scrolls.
Think of the times you're prompted to investigate something in Skyrim, for example:
"I might sign up for the Dawnguard. Vampire-hunters, or something."
"The Empire is trying to outlaw our worship of Talos!"
You can pick up on the stuff you're interested in pursuing and talk to the relevant NPCs then. Or you can just take that nugget you picked up while eavesdropping on an NPC and head up to that sweet cave on the mountain to find the treasure on your own, or maybe sell out their secret to another NPC who they're trying to swindle or something. It'd be really useful for a game that's trying to build an immersive world.
astrogamer
Member
That doesn't seem particularly better than how Xenoblade Chronicles X does it (NPCs have text bubbles as you pass). Honestly seems more confusing especially if multiple NPCs end up in the same area or if you miss something. I'd talk to most of NPCs anyway.
LegendofLex
Member
¿Por que no los dos?
RellyRell28
Banned
I wouldn't mine some giving a vocal version on Song of Healing
James Scott
Banned
The dub for Xenoblade Chronicles X is very good, especially Lyn.
There's just not a whole lot for them to work with and the animation is stiff because they spent all their money making a big ass world for a game that wasn't going to sell
There's just not a whole lot for them to work with and the animation is stiff because they spent all their money making a big ass world for a game that wasn't going to sell
I don't think I ever want to hear Ingo actually speak though.
I'd love to hear Salvatore talk though.
https://youtu.be/q_rQpf7yF9Y
Spring-Loaded
Member
That would be dope.
*inhale*
*exhale*
I love this thread. Cherish it you guys. This thread will never happen again even after it's officially announced.
astrogamer
Member
Green Mamba
Member
Voice acting allows for them to have SS's more cinematic cutscene direction but without the characters going through ridiculous looking ventriloquist acts as they pretend they are talking.
It's funny because in Twilight Princess if you look closely the lip movement of the characters actually match the general motion their mouth would actually make if they were actually speaking.
All they needed to do was record the lines and put them in!
Even more in Skyward Sword, I think.
All they needed to do was record the lines and put them in!
Even more in Skyward Sword, I think.
Lmao. I don't remember this, what Direct was this from?
James Scott
Banned
That's what I was hoping for. Don't think we'll get a narrative as good as SS's, but I could always be wrong.
Haha it really does. With the rumors of a Smash and Splatoon port, my decision to not dive in is being validated in every way.
I'm always relieved when the discussion in here tilts back to voice acting.
SS had a good narrative? "You need to become the hero so good thing all these hero-becoming doodads and challenges are lying around?"
If you're talking about the character stuff, fine, yeah. But in terms of overall plot, ha.
I kind of stay away from posting in these threads like this since it usually turns out of bad but it seems to be calmer now.
1. On NX port. I like this, I'm not sure if I'll buy a NX but Zelda is a nice temptation, even if I already own a Wii U.
2. On gender choice. I honestly don't care much, I've played as boys and girls in games, even with avatars, but I usually choose boy unless I want to see if something's different with the girl (recently did this in FE:Awakening, mainly to marry Chrom). On the circular discussion about this that has taken place in this topic, I understand parts of both points. Link is conceptually an avatar, but execution-wise has a clearly identified image, so the idea of woman Link rubs some people the wrong way. Personally, since I'll probably pick the male version either way, it doesn't bother me. I do hope they don't cheap out on the story since Skyward Sword had some cool stuff that actually used Link's character. Also, and this doesn't disqualify a gender choice from existing, it'd interest me more if Zelda or some other character that wasn't Link was playable too.
3. On VA. I'm a bit torn on this one. I understand many people see VA as a modern thing all games should have but I don't feel that way. VA has many positives like not forcing you to read the text boxes and adding charm and atmosphere to the game, but it also has a few negatives. The one that personally bothers me is that VA is sometimes slow, so you either wait for characters to speak (which is slower than reading) or cut the audio off by skipping dialogue, which sounds bad. My favourite implementations of VA are games like Star Fox and Kid Icarus Uprising where the VA complements the game without ever slowing it down. FE:Awakening also has a nice implementation, with small phrases complementing the text boxes in normal dialogue, cool one liners in battle and full VA for the cutscenes.
EDIT:
SS's story is pretty standard but it has great characterization. Ghirahim, Impa and Groose, for example, get many cool scenes during the game. There are also many cinematic scenes that aren't typical of Zelda games, like the one after the first desert dungeon.
1. On NX port. I like this, I'm not sure if I'll buy a NX but Zelda is a nice temptation, even if I already own a Wii U.
2. On gender choice. I honestly don't care much, I've played as boys and girls in games, even with avatars, but I usually choose boy unless I want to see if something's different with the girl (recently did this in FE:Awakening, mainly to marry Chrom). On the circular discussion about this that has taken place in this topic, I understand parts of both points. Link is conceptually an avatar, but execution-wise has a clearly identified image, so the idea of woman Link rubs some people the wrong way. Personally, since I'll probably pick the male version either way, it doesn't bother me. I do hope they don't cheap out on the story since Skyward Sword had some cool stuff that actually used Link's character. Also, and this doesn't disqualify a gender choice from existing, it'd interest me more if Zelda or some other character that wasn't Link was playable too.
3. On VA. I'm a bit torn on this one. I understand many people see VA as a modern thing all games should have but I don't feel that way. VA has many positives like not forcing you to read the text boxes and adding charm and atmosphere to the game, but it also has a few negatives. The one that personally bothers me is that VA is sometimes slow, so you either wait for characters to speak (which is slower than reading) or cut the audio off by skipping dialogue, which sounds bad. My favourite implementations of VA are games like Star Fox and Kid Icarus Uprising where the VA complements the game without ever slowing it down. FE:Awakening also has a nice implementation, with small phrases complementing the text boxes in normal dialogue, cool one liners in battle and full VA for the cutscenes.
EDIT:
SS's story is pretty standard but it has great characterization. Ghirahim, Impa and Groose, for example, get many cool scenes during the game. There are also many cinematic scenes that aren't typical of Zelda games, like the one after the first desert dungeon.
If* it's revealed
I personally hate Linkle's design. I just wish it was the same outfit on a boy or a girl. Maybe different proportions here and there, but overall the same design. No extra "windows" on the outfit or whatever. I'm all for sexiness and positivism and reflecting style trends but when it's REQUIRED for a "female version" to show more skin just for the hell of it, it's grating.
EAD is great at female costumes though. I'm glad Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja have no say in Zelda Wii U.
James Scott
Banned
If there were a female option in a Zelda game, then you will either be playing as Zelda, Aryll, Linkle, or a new character that's similar to Linkle. Link and Zelda are 2 of Nintendo's more marketable characters, they're here to stay.
It's a little over-designed for my taste, she's wearing a hoodie and thick boots but her legs and arms are exposed. Nintendo could design her much better.
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